Any views on this ?

[grahamw48]

Atheists more intelligent than religious people ?

Let's try not to fall out. :icon_lol:

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http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422348/Atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-claims-study

[joebloggs]

i agree :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxparty-smiley-004:

[Terpe]

Another deeply flawed 'crackpot' study that purports to be scientifically based, but uses the most narrow definition of intelligence and the widest possible definition of atheist that even a co-author doubts it's validity.


Besides which, God doesn't believe in atheists, so therefore atheists don't exist. :biggrin:

[grahamw48]

Yes but I'm an Atheist, so it MUST be true !:ReadIt: :Jump:

[Terpe]

Maybe the study is an attempt to highlight some degree of correlation between levels of subconscious self-dependency at the higher levels of religious belief and those at lower levels of religious belief. :Erm:

[grahamw48]

I just went to church every Sunday for 16 years, read Darwin, studied Religious Education in school, and then decided it was a load of :censored: :icon_lol:

[bigmac]

atheists versus theists--? a pointless debate---they speak different languages. neither understands the other.

[Michael Parnham]

Yes but I'm an Atheist, so it MUST be true !:ReadIt: :Jump:

So am I!:smile:

[Ako Si Jamie]

Having being brought up religiously as a kid I believed in God (as you do) but after being in the big bad world for several years I kinda changed my beliefs. I'm 100% certain that someone or something is looking over me but I'm more inclined to believe it's a guardian angel than a God because if there was a God, why so much suffering in the world?

As for the topic in question it's a stupid comparison if you ask me. It's a bit like saying people in Nottingham are more intelligent than people in Leeds.

[gWaPito]

So am I!:smile:

I'm not.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Talking about studies. .guess who commits the most suicides. ..Atheists.

[Terpe]

I'm sure most people who say they're atheists don't really know if they are or not.

Darwin stated he was not an atheist. He was pretty smart

And Professor Richard Dawkins also states he is not an atheist as does Professor Stephen Hawking. Both very smart.

[Arthur Little]

Atheists more intelligent than religious people ?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422348/Atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-claims-study

:nono-1-1: ... I don't think religious beliefs (or lack of) have any real bearing on a person's level of intelligence, which - in my opinion - is far more likely to be influenced by genetic factors.

[Terpe]

So am I! :smile:


I'm not. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Nor am I.
So Mark we have more in common than you might have thought :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Jamesey]

It's interesting. I follow Richard Dawkins on Twitter and this was provoking plenty of debate.

Despite Terpe's views, this was not a single study, but a meta analysis of many studies. However, it's right to be cautious before drawing conclusions.

A more interesting statistic would be how many members of the Royal Society are religious, or how many Nobel science prizes have been won by religious people.

[gWaPito]

:nono-1-1: ... I don't think religious beliefs (or lack of) have any real bearing on a person's level of intelligence, which - in my opinion - is far more likely to be influenced by genetic factors.

Totally agree Arthur. I agree with your initial and subsequent posts here as well Terpe. Honestly, you can't believe what these papers print. ..in the Mail today it states if you drink more than 4 coffees a day you are putting your life at peril. The papers here are becoming a joke just like the papers in America in the 80's.

[gWaPito]

It's interesting. I follow Richard Dawkins on Twitter and this was provoking plenty of debate.

Despite Terpe's views, this was not a single study, but a meta analysis of many studies. However, it's right to be cautious before drawing conclusions.

A more interesting statistic would be how many members of the Royal Society are religious, or how many Nobel science prizes have been won by religious people.

Dr Eben Alexander. He wrote ''Proof of Heaven'' He was just as dismissive as the rest of the scientific world.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Btw I see we got the same suspects. The only one absent is Aposharke and his orange box

[marksroomspain]

Well I will have to really mix this up as I am a Spiritualist but it would take forever to explain my reasons why and debate this but I suppose everyone to there own..:omg:

[jonnijon]

Religion is the biggest money making con ever devised by man.

[grahamw48]

I'm still an Atheist folks...and 100% SURE, with no suicidal tendencies. The worms will just have to wait a while longer before they eat up this particular bundle of chemicals and electricity. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[stevewool]

wow, well who am i , thats it i have it, i am a Englishman just living his life the best he can trying not to bother anyone, thats who i am:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lordna]

First i agree the study is a load of nonsense, there can be no correlation between the two.

On the subject of is there a God, its my belief there is although i am not religious....However after watching my first wife suffer slowly from being ill with cancer then ending up dead, it really shakes ones faith in anything.

Going to the Philippines, observing the people there and their faith in GOD has made me believe how worthwhile it is having faith in something, particularly when all else fails as is often the case in some areas of the Philippines (i am talking disasters etc).

Since my wife has been here i have been attending, on occasion, church( a catholic church) although i am C of E. I must say i have found this quite enjoyable although some parts of the services are still a complete mystery.

I can believe that atheists could be more prone to committing suicide and for me really the jury is still out on whether there is a GOD. I like to think there is and am sometimes envious of peoples unshakeable faith in GOD. Having that belief IMHO and faith can only be good. Can you say the same for Atheism?

[Michael Parnham]

I have no wish to commit suicide as I have everything to live for, but, I am one of those people who won't believe unless I see it!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

I find it amusing/slightly irritating that other people should think that I (and other Atheists) are somehow missing out on because we don't have 'faith' in SOMETHING....some guiding light in our lives.

Inspiration comes from many sources, and high moral principles :innocent1: need not be the sole preserve of churchgoers and the religious
...though I am grateful for having learned a lot of mine at Sunday School, :pray:

for some of us it was time to move on and to leave the fairy tales behind. :smile:

Have faith in YOURSELF.

[lordna]

I find it amusing/slightly irritating that other people should think that I (and other Atheists) are somehow missing out on because we don't have 'faith' in SOMETHING....some guiding light in our lives.

Inspiration comes from many sources, and high moral principles :innocent1: need not be the sole preserve of churchgoers and the religious
...though I am grateful for having learned a lot of mine at Sunday School, :pray:

for some of us it was time to move on and to leave the fairy tales behind. :smile:

Have faith in YOURSELF.

A lot of us obtained our "high moral principles" from being brought up in the christian faith whether we liked it or not. Lessons at school started with the whole school saying a prayer and singing hymms. For me this took up the first 15 years of my life and at the age of 13 i was also in a church choir and the local church youth club.

Later i turned my back on all that BUT i still live my life by those moral principles. At that early stage in my life i didn't even think about it and i believe thats probably whats wrong with kids of today in that they don't have those principles drummed into them as there is no daily prayer or hymms etc.

I for one don't think your missing out because you dont have faith in something or a guiding light as clearly you have found your own faith and guiding light is enough. For me , most of the time i could say the same BUT when i lost my wife that faith and my own guidance wasn't quite enough. I didn't turn to religion though but sought counselling which fortunately was effective.
What i did say was that i find others faith in GOD worthwhile AND i am sometimes envious of that, reason being is i am constantly asking myself if there is a GOD. I would LIKE to think so. Difficult subject!

[gWaPito]

Many are lost when puberty hits. The understanding we have of God's word by then has hardly touched the surface.

[grahamw48]

lordna, I understand exactly what you're saying. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

Many are lost when puberty hits. The understanding we have of God's word by then has hardly touched the surface.

'Lost' to what ?

The next class in the brainwashing process ? :Erm:

Nope, some of us have just absorbed the good (morals/10 commandments) stuff and then with our maturing brains are able to break free from the grasp of power-hungry priests and the rest of the religious man-in-the-clouds nonsense, to step out into the fresh unpolluted air of mental freedom and REALITY. :Jump:

I refuse to be CONTROLLED by concepts and irrational fears from the dark ages :thumbsdown:..even though that also removes the comfort blanket of prayer, blessings , and 'miracles'.

[gWaPito]

''maturing brains'' I'm still getting a vibe here that atheism is coupled with higher intelligence :Rasp:

I'm talking about the engine, God Not the engine driver ''power hungry priests''

We don't get any of that business at our local Methodist Chapel. .a nice relaxing approachable environment.

[gWaPito]

Atheists more intelligent than religious people ?

Let's try not to fall out. :icon_lol:

.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422348/Atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-claims-study

Live and let live :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

''maturing brains'' I'm still getting a vib here that atheism is coupled with higher intelligence :Rasp:

I'm talking about the engine, God Not the engine driver ''power hungry priests''

We don't get any of that business at our local Methodist Chapel. .a nice relaxing approachable environment.

Us kids attended my grandad's church. He was a Methodist Minister.

Hence my high moral standards...including no gambling, drinking, womanising, or sodomy ! :biggrin: :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

Live and let live :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I'll drink to that :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

We don't get any of that business at our local Methodist Chapel. .a nice relaxing approachable environment.

Nor in the Church of Scotland ... in which I've been an elder and office bearer for the past 38 years now. :smile:

[Arthur Little]

Nor in the Church of Scotland ... in which I've been an elder and office bearer for the past 38 years now. :smile:

Having said that ... :yeahthat: ... it most certainly DOESN'T make me any better - or worse - a person than my fellow human beings :NoNo: ... it simply means doing my utmost to show respect for others, in accordance with the Christian principles that formed the backbone of my upbringing. :wink:

[gWaPito]

You got superb human attributes Arthur. You never waver. .:xxgrinning--00xx3:

Your ladies have been very fortunate marrying you.

I can say the same for our ministers. .fine loving compassionate people.

You wouldn't have a clue from what backgrounds they come such is the emphasis on helping the poor and needy.

[bigmarco]

There is an argument to say that the poorer less educated societies cling to their religions much more so than the better educated wealthier societies. Also in a lot of poorer societies Religion or The Church seems to have quite an influential role in Government.
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the statement atheists are more intelligent, I do feel that religion has had a detrimental affect on a lot of the poorer nations.

[gWaPito]

Atheists more intelligent than religious people ?

Let's try not to fall out. :icon_lol:

.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422348/Atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people-claims-study

I won't be reading the Express again :doh

[Terpe]

Anyone have any statistics on the % of the human population that have 'religious beliefs' and the % of the human population claim to be atheist ?

Here's something from Wikipedia:-

Since conceptions of atheism vary, determining how many atheists exist in the world today is difficult.[23] According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population, while a further 11.9% are nonreligious.[24] According to another, rates of self-reported atheism are among the highest in Western nations, again to varying degrees: United States (4%), Italy (7%), Spain (11%), Great Britain (17%), Germany (20%), and France (32%).[25] According to a 2012 report by the Pew Research Center, people describing themselves as "atheist" were 2% of the total population in the US, and within the religiously unaffiliated (or "no religion") demographic, atheists made up 12%.[26] According to a 2012 global poll conducted by WIN/GIA, 13% of the participants say they are atheists.

[grahamw48]

Ah well...always knew I was 'special'. :icon_lol:

[Terpe]

Ah well...always knew I was 'special'. :icon_lol:

:icon_lol::icon_lol::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andy222]

'Lost' to what ?

The next class in the brainwashing process ? :Erm:

Nope, some of us have just absorbed the good (morals/10 commandments) stuff and then with our maturing brains are able to break free from the grasp of power-hungry priests and the rest of the religious man-in-the-clouds nonsense, to step out into the fresh unpolluted air of mental freedom and REALITY. :Jump:

I refuse to be CONTROLLED by concepts and irrational fears from the dark ages :thumbsdown:..even though that also removes the comfort blanket of prayer, blessings , and 'miracles'.
I agree.:xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[gWaPito]

There is an argument to say that the poorer less educated societies cling to their religions much more so than the better educated wealthier societies. Also in a lot of poorer societies Religion or The Church seems to have quite an influential role in Government.
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the statement atheists are more intelligent, I do feel that religion has had a detrimental affect on a lot of the poorer nations.

I don't think for one moment it's anything to do with the educational differences. In fact there's enough evidence we are in general the less well educated.

It's the suffering. .state of powerlessness...until you've had a dose of that you really don't know.

We haven't got a lot of that going on here. .we have the luxury to be the superior stuck up our backside types looking down on the less fortunate which how it looks here.

Who are we kidding. .we are the lost souls. .does the following passage ring a bell with anyone anyway, it goes something like this. A camel getting through the eye of a needle stands more chance of getting into heaven than a rich man''?

Terpe's post on percentages makes an interesting read. ..Atheism isn't takin over the world population after all. .I wonder what the stats are for atheists giving up their fashionable belief on their deathbed. ..no harm in edging your bets by getting Christened. ..Just in case ;-)

[Terpe]

Anyone have any statistics on the % of the human population that have 'religious beliefs' and the % of the human population claim to be atheist ?

Here's something from Wikipedia:-

The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as:-
Christian 31.59% (of which Roman Catholic 18.85%, Protestant 8.15%, Orthodox 4.96% and Anglican 1.26%)

Muslim 23.2%
Hindu 15.0%
Buddhist 7.1%
Sikh 0.35%
Jewish 0.22%
Baha'i 0.11%
other religions 10.95%
non-religious 9.66%
atheists 2.01%

[Ako Si Jamie]

Anyone have any statistics on the % of the human population that have 'religious beliefs' and the % of the human population claim to be atheist ?

Here's something from Wikipedia:-I wouldn't believe everything Wikipedia says Pete. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has their input. Ironically it's a bit like the bible - full of contradictions. :biggrin:

[Terpe]

I wouldn't believe everything Wikipedia says Pete. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has their input. Ironically it's a bit like the bible - full of contradictions. :biggrin:

How about The CIA's World Factbook ??

[Ako Si Jamie]

How about The CIA's World Factbook ??A more reliable source I reckon.

[Arthur Little]

Atheism - like intelligence - is fundamentally rooted in the 'thought' process ... which derives from the mind.

Whereas ... religion is born of FAITH ... and stems from the
heart! :heartshape1:

:anerikke: ... perhaps this is where people get :confused: ... but strikes me as being the most logical answer to the question posed by Graham.

[Michael Parnham]

Intelligence has nothing at all to do with religion or the lack of it, it's down to the individual! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

I'm sure the answer will be in the Bible somewhere. :Erm:

[Jamesey]

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the statement atheists are more intelligent, I do feel that religion has had a detrimental affect on a lot of the poorer nations.

Good point. The Philippines is a good example of this. You can drive through an incredibly poor village in the provinces, where the houses are mainly just shacks, and see a huge, new church!

[Ako Si Jamie]

I'm sure the answer will be in the Bible somewhere. :Erm:You're not going to like this article :biggrin:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100231060/are-atheists-mentally-ill/

[Jamesey]

Haha, very amusing. I assume this was written firmly tongue-in-cheek! :icon_lol:

By the same logic, it's "nice" to believe in Father Christmas, but it doesn't mean that he exists!

[grahamw48]

You're not going to like this article :biggrin:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100231060/are-atheists-mentally-ill/

Damm !

It appears that I'm leading the life of a BELIEVER ! :omg:

' So which is the smart party, here? Is it the atheists, who live short, selfish, stunted little lives – often childless – before they approach hopeless death in despair, and their worthless corpses are chucked in a trench (or, if they are wrong, they go to Hell)? Or is it the believers, who live longer, happier, healthier, more generous lives, and who have more kids, and who go to their quietus with ritual dignity, expecting to be greeted by a smiling and benevolent God? '

:Brick:

[gWaPito]

Damm !

It appears that I'm leading the life of a BELIEVER ! :omg:

' So which is the smart party, here? Is it the atheists, who live short, selfish, stunted little lives – often childless – before they approach hopeless death in despair, and their worthless corpses are chucked in a trench (or, if they are wrong, they go to Hell)? Or is it the believers, who live longer, happier, healthier, more generous lives, and who have more kids, and who go to their quietus with ritual dignity, expecting to be greeted by a smiling and benevolent God? '

:Brick:

:laugher: Cheers Graham ...that cheered me up no end :icon_lol:

[bigmarco]

Good point. The Philippines is a good example of this. You can drive through an incredibly poor village in the provinces, where the houses are mainly just shacks, and see a huge, new church!

That's the point I was making. The Churches and Mosques with the biggest congregations tend to be in the poorest parts of the world.
You and I find it absurd to see people living in shacks in total poverty on the same road as a lavish place of worship but the people living in those shacks see nothing wrong with it. Why ? Probably because their religion with the help of their Government is telling them it's ok to be poor as everything's going to be fine in the next life :Erm:
I think it's no coincidence that people in the wealthier western nations like our own are turning away from religion.
I have no problem with people who have faith, after all I married a very special one. It's just not for me.

[grahamw48]

Ah yes....amazing what 10% of every churchgoer's earnings and some determined begging can buy. A shining beacon in a sea of poverty. :NoNo:

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http://imageshack.us/a/img690/4125/ki42.jpg

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http://imageshack.us/a/img443/9448/2ikp.jpg
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http://imageshack.us/a/img6/149/o8nv.jpg

[Arthur Little]

*Intelligence has nothing at all to do with religion or the lack of it, it's down to the individual! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

:iagree: ... precisely my point (#12, previous page ... where I suggested *it was more than likely linked to genetic factors).