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Dedworth
18th November 2013, 21:59
Labour’s astonishing case of memory loss

From the economy to benefits, house-building to health care, Labour tries to pretend that it has been out of office for a generation

To listen yesterday to Andy Burnham, Labour’s health spokesman, defending the GP contract signed by the last government was to have one’s credulity stretched to breaking point. Mr Burnham rejected the accusation levelled by Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, that “Labour did terrible damage to out-of-hours care”. This cannot be so, said Mr Burnham, because the British Medical Association said the 2004 contract was a good deal. Indeed it was – for its members.

We have often said that, where the debate over the NHS is concerned, there is entirely too much political mudslinging. But Labour simply cannot be allowed to peddle the outright lie that the problems people have in getting access to GPs at evenings and weekends have nothing to do with the way their contract allowed doctors to shed such responsibilities – or, more broadly, to lay every problem with a health service they ran for 13 years at the door of the Coalition.

This is not so much opportunism as outright amnesia. There has been much amusement in Westminster this week over the fact that both Labour and the Tories have deleted inconvenient material, predating the last general election, from their websites. Yet in the case of the Opposition, it is part of a much wider attempt to treat 2010 as though it was Year Zero. On the economy, health, welfare, education and a score of other issues, they imagine voters will forget that this is not just the party that is responsible for so many of the country’s problems, but in many instances the very personnel.

The best example comes in the field of energy. In recent weeks, Ed Miliband has tried to make political capital out of rising electricity and gas bills – blithely ignoring the fact that he was in charge of the sector until April 2010. He now wants to cap prices, reform the market and split suppliers from generators, all of which he could have done while in office. The one thing he is not prepared to suggest – which has been a direct cause of higher prices – is abandoning the green levies that he himself imposed.

The memory loss goes beyond Mr Miliband. Jack Straw, the former home secretary, this week said the party made “a spectacular mistake” in allowing nearly a million Eastern Europeans to come here to work. Ministers here lifted controls on the movement of labour years before other major EU economies – so what did they think was going to happen? Mr Straw, moreover, would have us believe it was just an honest error. Perhaps – but some would argue that it was part of a deliberate policy to bring in cheap workers and tilt the nation’s demography, in the hope that Labour might benefit politically.

Another Labour veteran, David Blunkett, has criticised the way in which Roma settlers in his Sheffield constituency have angered local people. “We have got to be tough and robust in saying to these people: 'You are not living in a downtrodden village or woodlands’,” he said. Had a Tory made such provocative comments, the uproar would have been deafening. Yet Labour politicians appear to have a special dispensation to denounce the impact of their own policies.

One of the week’s other themes has been the reversal of post-war social mobility. The damage was done under both Labour and Tory governments – but nothing was done to address it after 1997, with educational failure becoming entrenched in all too many schools. On welfare, similarly, shadow cabinet members now bemoan the culture of dependency fostered by Gordon Brown. In the diplomatic field, the shadow foreign secretary, Douglas Alexander, has been busily denouncing the Government’s failure to boycott a Commonwealth conference in Sri Lanka that his own party committed not just the Prime Minister but also the Prince of Wales to attending.

From the economy to benefits, house-building to health care, Labour tries to pretend that it has been out of office for a generation rather than three years. The Conservatives are not blameless: as the surgery to their website shows, they would dearly like to forget how eagerly they signed up to Labour’s destructive spending and energy plans. But they, at least, have admitted the error of their ways. For Labour, the process of atonement has not even begun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/10452228/Labours-astonishing-case-of-memory-loss.html

grahamw48
19th November 2013, 00:29
I agree.

Labour over 13 years proved that they were a total shower of :censored: and a bunch of robbing self-serving hypocrites.

I note that all 5 MPs who were jailed for thieving came from their tawdry ranks. :mad:

KeithD
19th November 2013, 02:39
Both are as bad as each other once in power. Democracy in the UK means that we have a choice of idiots to run the country who have only known public schools, and have never had a real job.

SimonH
19th November 2013, 07:41
Both are as bad as each other once in power. Democracy in the UK means that we have a choice of idiots to run the country who have only known public schools, and have never had a real job.

Very true, we as with all democracies choose which idiot gets to lead us as opposed to communism where they don't get any choice in which idiot leads them :wink:

joebloggs
19th November 2013, 11:59
don't have time to read it dedworth, got to work but if it's coming from a Tory rag no point in looking at it :NoNo:

joebloggs
19th November 2013, 12:00
are there any facts in figures in the article ? or is it just Tory propaganda ?

Dedworth
19th November 2013, 12:41
are there any facts in figures in the article ? or is it just Tory propaganda ?

Plenty of facts Joe like Burnham refusing to accept that the 2004 GP Contract (there's a figure for you) wrecked out of hours care.

I know it's not from the Daily Mirror or World Socialist website - there's no big words and shouldn't take you too long to read - you'll see how Labour are trying to distance themselves from 13 years of shambolic rule. It's only recent history after all but then you are fond of going back decades and heaping blame on Mrs Thatcher et all.

joebloggs
19th November 2013, 14:28
but you keep on going on about labour, Tories have been in power 3 1/2 yrs and tell me, what is better under the Tories ?

Dedworth
19th November 2013, 15:18
but you keep on going on about labour, Tories have been in power 3 1/2 yrs and tell me, what is better under the Tories ?



Immigration cut by a third
2 Islamic Extremists finally deported
Benefits Capped
Deficit cut by a third
Crime down

grahamw48
19th November 2013, 15:27
Ayup, it's kicking off again. :icon_lol:

VOTE UKIP !!! :biggrin:

KeithD
19th November 2013, 15:54
Immigration cut by a third
Based on figures from a unit that has been giving incorrect figures for over 10 years! :Erm:


2 Islamic Extremists finally deported
Due to the legal system, not government. Regardless of who was in power, they would have gone at some point.


Benefits Capped
Yep. Take off the poor to give to the rich.

Deficit cut by a third
:Erm: Hasn't the countries debt increased?


Crime down
Fiddled figures as usual, they keep changing the formula, and did so only a few months ago.

....and I voted Tory last time.

VOTE UKIP :icon_lol:

les_taxi
19th November 2013, 16:20
We were left in the biggest pile of doo doo by Labour how can anyone vote for them again?
Short memories:icon_lol:

grahamw48
19th November 2013, 16:22
Gang of shisters led by a blinkin schoolboy. :NoNo:

andy222
19th November 2013, 20:16
Getting back to the health crisis Torys have had 3 and a half years in power and they dont know how many nurses are on duty.:crazy:.

andy222
19th November 2013, 20:19
Based on figures from a unit that has been giving incorrect figures for over 10 years! :Erm:

Due to the legal system, not government. Regardless of who was in power, they would have gone at some point.

Yep. Take off the poor to give to the rich.

:Erm: Hasn't the countries debt increased?

Fiddled figures as usual, they keep changing the formula, and did so only a few months ago.

....and I voted Tory last time.

VOTE UKIP :icon_lol:
Good points boss and at least you have admitted to being led on by these clowns.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

andy222
19th November 2013, 20:20
We were left in the biggest pile of doo doo by Labour how can anyone vote for them again?
Short memories:icon_lol:
I will.:wink:

joebloggs
19th November 2013, 20:44
We were left in the biggest pile of doo doo by Labour how can anyone vote for them again?
Short memories:icon_lol:

i think you've got selective memory Les , so labour is responsible for the banking crisis ? and the collapse of economies around the world ?

how the Tories mocked Micheal Foot in 1983 when he wanted the Gov to have greater controls of banks maybe we wouldn't have got in this mess were in now. , he also wanted to pull out of the EEC again maybe we would be in the mess were in now :doh

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47416000/jpg/_47416176_referendum_getty_226.jpg

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 11:41
i think you've got selective memory Les , so labour is responsible for the banking crisis ? and the collapse of economies around the world ?

how the Tories mocked Micheal Foot in 1983 when he wanted the Gov to have greater controls of banks maybe we wouldn't have got in this mess were in now. , he also wanted to pull out of the EEC again maybe we would be in the mess were in now :doh




Mocking 1983 - 30 years ago Joe :icon_lol: Foot was a joke though

Just for the sake of good order please remind us who deregulated the banks and financial sector whilst they cuddled up to the city slickers in 1997

andy222
20th November 2013, 11:51
Black wednesday Ded. In the news recently Rolls Royce what a company sold to the Germans by thatcher.

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 11:57
Black wednesday Ded. In the news recently Rolls Royce what a company sold to the Germans by thatcher.

:Erm: I thought Rolls Royce Motors was owned and sold by Vickers Plc in 1998 when Mr Blair was at No 10 - was Mrs Thatcher some sort of major shareholder in Vickers at the time ?

SimonH
20th November 2013, 12:01
Actually sold by the Vickers Group to BMW in 1998 :smile:

joebloggs
20th November 2013, 12:02
Mocking 1983 - 30 years ago Joe :icon_lol: Foot was a joke though

Just for the sake of good order please remind us who deregulated the banks and financial sector whilst they cuddled up to the city slickers in 1997

foot was a joke:icon_lol: , nah dedworth the joke is on you, he was way ahead of his time, he was Honest and respectable, unlike the :censored: Mp's we have these days :NoNo:

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:04
http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/04/10/how-margaret-thatcher-sold-the-family-silver-to-reform-society/

KeithD
20th November 2013, 12:05
My foot can have me hopping mad! :Cuckoo:

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:07
foot was a joke:icon_lol: , nah dedworth the joke is on you, he was way ahead of his time, he was Honest and respectable, unlike the :censored: Mp's we have these days :NoNo:

In the pay of the KGB - a traitor pure & simple

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/04/article-1255529-08920EF4000005DC-80_468x344.jpg

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:09
We own nothing thanks to the tories.

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:09
http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/04/10/how-margaret-thatcher-sold-the-family-silver-to-reform-society/


We own nothing thanks to the tories.

There's a British Company Andy that's quite big in the Aero Engine game

http://www.rolls-royce.com/

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:11
And?

les_taxi
20th November 2013, 12:12
Joe does the time warp again!

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Deutschland

SimonH
20th November 2013, 12:15
Joe does the time warp again!

Did he jump to the left :wink:

SimonH
20th November 2013, 12:18
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Deutschland

Rolls-Royce Deutschland is a subsidiary of aircraft engine maker Rolls-Royce plc with facilities at Dahlewitz outside Berlin and at Oberursel near Frankfurt am Main. It was formerly BMW Rolls-Royce (BRR), a joint venture company between BMW and Rolls-Royce established in 1990 to produce the BR700 family of jet engines.
Rolls-Royce took full control of the company in 2000, renaming it Rolls-Royce Deutschland. As well as continuing to produce the Rolls-Royce BR700 family of turbofans, the subsidiary is also involved in the Europrop TP400 engine for the Airbus A400M military transport plane.
Rolls-Royce Deutschland has inherited responsibility for the Tay, Spey and IAE V2500 two shaft turbofans and the Dart turboprop from the parent company, allowing the Derby site to concentrate on its three shaft civil turbofans.






It's a subsidiary of a BRITISH owned company :smile:

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:19
There's a British Company Andy that's quite big in the Aero Engine game

http://www.rolls-royce.com/
They make the engines they dont own it.
A bit like Jaguar and Land Rover we make them but dont own the company.

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:25
They make the engines they dont own it.
A bit like Jaguar and Land Rover we make them but dont own the company.

The owner is Rolls Royce Holdings Plc a British company

http://www.lse.co.uk/shareprice.asp?shareprice=RR.&share=rolls-royce_holdings_plc_ord_shs_20p

SimonH
20th November 2013, 12:26
Rolls-Royce Holdings plc is a United Kingdom-based multinational public holding company that through its subsidiaries, designs, manufactures and distributes power systems. Rolls-Royce Holdings[4] is headquartered in City of Westminster, London.[5] It is the world’s third-largest maker of aircraft engines,[6] and also has major businesses in the marine propulsion and energy sectors. Through its defence-related activities, it is the world's 16th-largest defence contractor measured by 2011 defence revenues.[7] It had an announced order book of £62.2 billion as of the end of 2011.[8]
Rolls-Royce is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 100 Index. As of June 2013, it had a market capitalisation of £22.22 billion, the 24th-largest of any company with a primary listing on the London Stock Exchange.[9]

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:28
Multinational? They dont own it.

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:30
Anyway going back into Joe's time warp and related to Rolls Royce aero engines - in 1946 the Labour Govt and their Communist Trade Minister Cripps gave Rolls Royce Nene jet engines to Stalins Russia thus helping fuel the cold war

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:31
Multinational? They dont own it.


Meaning they do business and have operations internationally

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:32
Nice bit of buisness on labours part.:xxgrinning--00xx3:

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:33
Meaning they do business and have operations internationally
But they dont own it.

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:35
But they dont own it.

Put me out of my misery Andy and let us know who owns Rolls Royce Holdings Plc - are they German ?

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:37
Following the Tories’ third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale. These privatisations provoked serious opposition, perhaps sufficient to curb any tendency toward privatisation in the National Health Service. Nonetheless, market-driven measures continued to be imposed in the public sector, from the “internal market” in the health service to Major’s ill-fated citizen’s charter.

KeithD
20th November 2013, 12:40
A world with out religion and politics would be much friendlier :biggrin:

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:40
Put me out of my misery Andy and let us know who owns Rolls Royce Holdings Plc - are they German ?
We dont own it. Full stop. Just becuase there is english on the board dont mean we own it. There are English directors at Jaguar but the british dont own it.

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:42
A world with out religion and politics would be much friendlier :biggrin:
Its just a debate win.:biggrin:. I just love winding them up.:icon_lol:

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:42
Following the Tories’ third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale. These privatisations provoked serious opposition, perhaps sufficient to curb any tendency toward privatisation in the National Health Service. Nonetheless, market-driven measures continued to be imposed in the public sector, from the “internal market” in the health service to Major’s ill-fated citizen’s charter.

We're back in 1991 Andy :Erm: - who owns Rolls Royce Holdings Plc today

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:43
The Germans own part of it.:wink:

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 12:45
The Germans own part of it.:wink:

Which part would that be ? The shares Mrs Thatcher sold from her portfolio in 1998 :icon_lol:

andy222
20th November 2013, 12:47
She sold a lot more than that.:icon_lol:. RIP the bitch.

joebloggs
20th November 2013, 14:07
dedworth foot wanted to regulate the banks and pull out of the eec, now are they :crazy::Rasp: ideas or not :biggrin:

grahamw48
20th November 2013, 14:09
She sold a lot more than that.:icon_lol:. RIP the bitch.

Including thousands of council houses originally earmarked for the poor.

I didn't notice many Labour voters turning down THAT opportunity. :smile:

Dedworth
20th November 2013, 14:09
dedworth foot wanted to regulate the banks and pull out of the eec, now are they :crazy::Rasp: ideas or not :biggrin:

He'd do anything for a brown envelope from the KGB