Government accused of redefining fuel poverty to bring down figures

[joebloggs]

no surprises here

The government has been accused of "shifting the goalposts" to bring down the number of households classed as in fuel poverty.


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/02/government-accused-redefining-fuel-poverty

[andy222]

Its par for the course Joe, but the working class and poor wont forget. Tories are doomed.:biggrin:

[joebloggs]

its funny how dedworth and his posse don't say much on these Tory sleaze posts :cwm25:

[grahamw48]

All of those in 'fuel poverty' have been offered free home insulation (including private rented) for more than 10 years now, plus other FREE measures such as replacement boilers.

All council properties have been insulated properly during the past 20 years.

All new houses are fully insulated as part of building regs.

Everybody else has been able to avail themselves of 70% off cavity wall insulation and at least 50% off loft insulation.

Many have chosen not to bother because they don't place a high enough priority on it, or aren't willing to take the junk out of their lofts (also free removal for over 70s, disabled etc).

Having your home fully insulated will save anything from 15% to 50% from your heating bill, depending upon what has already been done...FOREVER.

You can take a horse to water, etc. :NoNo:

[andy222]

Your a expert on insulation Graham I wont argue with your comment but the point is the heating bills have gone up more now than ever before. Even if people have got insulation they will still suffer.

[grahamw48]

They would have suffered a hell of a lot more if they hadn't accepted the offer from the present and last government and had their homes insulated.

Some are still too stupid or idle to do it. I don't feel sorry for them.

I would be considered a fool if I had a hole in my car's petrol tank and moaned about fuel prices without doing something to fix it.

The price of fuel is governed by a global market which is controlled and manipulated by those who own the (finite) resources. Even the powerful big 6 can do nothing about that, and even if they were to reduce their profit margins slightly, there is still no chance of prices comig down to the level that people would be happy with.

Renewable energy also needs to be more widely used, and people willing to pay for it, to be more adaptable and accepting of it. "Oh I don't want those ugly panels on my roof". " Oh I don't believe in it". BUT THEY'RE FREE SIR. No, not interested. The insulation is also free. "No, not interested". :NoNo:

We all have to use less, and accept that it is a major expenditure...taking priority over fags, booze and pets. :anerikke:

Our children will thank us for our lack of selfishness.

[gWaPito]

Its par for the coarse Joe but the working class and poor wont forget. Tories are doomed.:biggrin:

Many working class and poor me included, will always vote Conservative :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[gWaPito]

They would have suffered a hell of a lot more if they hadn't accepted the offer from the present and last government and had their homes insulated.

Some are still too stupid or idle to do it. I don't feel sorry for them.

I would be considered a fool if I had a hole in my car's petrol tank and moaned about fuel prices without doing something to fix it.

The price of fuel is governed by a global market which is controlled and manipulated by those who own the (finite) resources. Even the powerful big 6 can do nothing about that, and even if they were to reduce their profit margins slightly, there is still no chance of prices comig down to the level that people would be happy with.

Renewable energy also needs to be more widely used, and people willing to pay for it, to be more adaptable and accepting of it. "Oh I don't want those ugly panels on my roof". " Oh I don't believe in it". BUT THEY'RE FREE SIR. No, not interested. The insulation is also free. "No, not interested". :NoNo:

We all have to use less, and accept that it is a major expenditure...taking priority over fags, booze and pets. :anerikke:

Our children will thank us for our lack of selfishness.

It's about time bobble hats were brought back into fashion....The days I havent got my boys I turn my heat down. By the time i get home all I do is shower and sleep so, I wear a hoodie to bed...No wonder the monks favour them..I'm warm as toast in no time :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

lol! Good man. :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

Many working class and poor me included, will always vote Conservative :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

but many more vote labour :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Dedworth]

but many more vote labour :xxgrinning--00xx3:

With some being benefit scrounging leeches who don't seem to have any fuel poverty issues - no probs running the 72 inch plasmas, playstations or leaving the doors wide open for the pit bulls and antisocial offspring to run in and out of :biggrin:

[Michael Parnham]

They would have suffered a hell of a lot more if they hadn't accepted the offer from the present and last government and had their homes insulated.

Some are still too stupid or idle to do it. I don't feel sorry for them.

I would be considered a fool if I had a hole in my car's petrol tank and moaned about fuel prices without doing something to fix it.

The price of fuel is governed by a global market which is controlled and manipulated by those who own the (finite) resources. Even the powerful big 6 can do nothing about that, and even if they were to reduce their profit margins slightly, there is still no chance of prices comig down to the level that people would be happy with.

Renewable energy also needs to be more widely used, and people willing to pay for it, to be more adaptable and accepting of it. "Oh I don't want those ugly panels on my roof". " Oh I don't believe in it". BUT THEY'RE FREE SIR. No, not interested. The insulation is also free. "No, not interested". :NoNo:

We all have to use less, and accept that it is a major expenditure...taking priority over fags, booze and pets. :anerikke:

Our children will thank us for our lack of selfishness.

Well said Graham! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

Many working class and poor me included, will always vote Conservative :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

Like it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[RickyR]

As I said before, at least with the Tories you know what you are getting. Anyone who votes Labour because they believe that they serve their interests and are less of an "old boys' club" are totally naive. Personally wouldn't vote either, but that's by the by.

The problem is that politics in the UK are becoming more and more like the US popularity contests rather then looking at the parties' policies.

[Terpe]

Taking party politics out of the equation just look at the 'old' and 'new' definitions.

Why does it need changing ?

Old:-
A household is considered in 'fuel poverty' if " it needs to spend more than 10% of it's income on fuel to maintain a satisfactory heating regime (Usually 21C for a main living room and 18C for other occupied rooms)

New:-
A household is considered in 'fuel poverty' if "it has required fuel costs that are above average and were they to spend that amount they would be left with a residual income below the official poverty line"

I for one can't see any good reason to change it.

What we do know is that overnight the change in definition will bring 800,000 households out of fuel poverty simply because they are smaller than average and cost less than average to heat.

What it really means is that despite the fact that it's costing more than 10% of income to heat it's no longer considered in fuel poverty simply because the actual amount of money in £'s that the household needs to spend to keep warm is now below some kind of average.

So doesn't that mean that those folks who have invested wisely in quality insulation and efficient boilers etc and now spend less than 'average' on heating will never be considered in 'fuel poverty' despite any relationship between their heating costs and income.

Or did I get it wrong ?? Just curious

[grahamw48]

I agree Peter. It's a total con'. :smile:

The power companies were totally inept at running their insulation schemes, resented paying for them, didn't meet their required 'Energy Company Obligation' targets (particularly British Gas), and so have presumably done an under the table deal somewhere along the line so that the taxpayer funds the schemes instead. The government have then resorted to smoke and mirrors to in turn reduce their expenditure...once again screwing over dozens of companies who set themselves up to carry out the work, and putting (so they say) 10,000 qualified employees on the dole.

From start to finish, these schemes have been run by various quangos full of know-nothing pen-pushers, and merely confused the public with their constantly moving goal posts and unnecessary complexity. :NoNo:

[gWaPito]

I think some need to revisit the dictionary and take a look at the meaning of 'poverty'.. Like Ded said

''With some being benefit scrounging leeches who don't seem to have any fuel poverty issues - no probs running the 72 inch plasmas, playstations or leaving the doors wide open for the pit bulls and antisocial offspring to run in and out of :biggrin:''

[joebloggs]

With some being benefit scrounging leeches who don't seem to have any fuel poverty issues - no probs running the 72 inch plasmas, playstations or leaving the doors wide open for the pit bulls and antisocial offspring to run in and out of :biggrin:

exactly the same for those rich Tories who try to avoid paying tax :wink:

[joebloggs]

As I said before, at least with the Tories you know what you are getting. Anyone who votes Labour because they believe that they serve their interests and are less of an "old boys' club" are totally naive. .

minimum pay, working tax credits, and child tax credits how is that not in labour voters best interests :biggrin:

[andy222]

minimum pay, working tax credits, and child tax credits how is that not in labour voters best interests :biggrin:
And there is a quite a few million of those.:xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[Dedworth]

And there is a quite a few million of those :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

I presume you're referring to mugs Andy

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/gruner/same.jpg

[andy222]

We will see Ded. The reason your on the defensive is because you can already guess the outcome of the next election.:icon_lol:

[gWaPito]

I presume you're referring to mugs Andy

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd108/gruner/same.jpg

:laugher::bigcry:

[joebloggs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050302/As-David-Cameron-delays-lobbyist-crackdown-Downing-Street-network-revealed.html

:mad: everything and everyone has a price when your a Tory

[gWaPito]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050302/As-David-Cameron-delays-lobbyist-crackdown-Downing-Street-network-revealed.html

:mad: everything and everyone has a price when your a Tory

Much like your 77% Union funded Labour Party........everything and everyone has a price when you're in the Labour Party :mad:

[Dedworth]

Much like your 77% Union funded Labour Party........everything and everyone has a price when you're in the Labour Party :mad:

Marxist Millipede will be having a meeting with Red Len this week to make sure he's getting his Christmas bonus :biggrin:

[gWaPito]

Marxist Millipede will be having a meeting with Red Len this week to make sure he's getting his Christmas bonus :biggrin: :icon_lol:..I'll be keeping ear to the ground :biggrin::xxgrinning--00xx3:

[London_Manila]

With some being benefit scrounging leeches who don't seem to have any fuel poverty issues - no probs running the 72 inch plasmas, playstations or leaving the doors wide open for the pit bulls and antisocial offspring to run in and out of :biggrin:

Sir Peter Viggers claimed £1600 in expenses for his floating duck house along with over £30,000 in gardening expenses over the last 3 years

Typical Tory Toff with his snout in the trough

Dont lecture us on scroungers Dedworth !

[London_Manila]

Much like your 77% Union funded Labour Party........everything and everyone has a price when you're in the Labour Party :mad:

who funds the Tory party

Tax avoiders like Philip Green and many Toffs in the city

glass houses and stones

[joebloggs]

Much like your 77% Union funded Labour Party........everything and everyone has a price when you're in the Labour Party :mad:

especially when your a union member and contribute to the Labour party, being a True Blue Tory gWaPito have you ever thought about quitting the union and joining your Eastern block buddies, it must be a dilemma for you , it must keep you awake at night or day if your working nights :cwm25:

:xxparty-smiley-004:

:biggrin:

[Dedworth]

We will see Ded. The reason your on the defensive is because you can already guess the outcome of the next election.:icon_lol:

Here's the latest from one of your beloved Labour MP's Andy - I doubt if she'll be winning many friends from the British Working Class in Bolton :icon_lol: She ought to go and have a cup of tea with Blunkett down the road in Sheffield :-

Immigrants don't come here just to claim benefits, says MP

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/10853307._/

[grahamw48]

Funny how people from the Philippines are not allowed to come here if it is suspected that they are doing it to 'better themselves'. :Erm: