Foreigners Owning Real estate - Being Controversial.

[ginapeterb]

A Debate about the merits of Foreigners and thier input to the Philippines economy.

I want to start a debate about foreigners and property, at the same time, i also want to start a reciprocal debate about foreigners here in UK owning property, it seems to me what is good for the goose should also be good for the gander, so let us start that great property and real estate debate.

Fred recently made a rather excellent post about a certain foreigner in the Philippines, Helmut the German, seems he finally got his fingers burned when he lost his case, after trial court and appeal to get his money back he has invested in the Philippines economy, rather alot of money as you will see if you read the post.

If the truth be known, I have always wanted to start this debate, and often spend countless hours of my time in the Philippines talking to my barkada about this very important area, I talk to accountants, lawyers and officials, that I meet during the course of my travels, and all of those ones generally agree, that the law regarding foreigners and real estate is prejudicial and unfair.

So lets take it a stage further, putting aside the arguments made by the Philippine congress that foreigners will simply buy up all the real estate thus putting the Filipinos out of the picture, therefore causing inflationary pressures and a price war.

Has anyone in the Philippines ever given thought to the plight of the many thousands of foreigners who through their Filipino citizen partners, purchase property and real estate to make for themselves a better life in the future.

Helmut was one such person, Fred told us about this in his post, when I made one about Community property, it seems even though real estate is considered community property, the court ruled that he could not get his money back, and I am not suprised by this judgement.

Let me join in with Helmut and say, I am also one of those who has done such a thing, I have through my Filipino citizen wife, purchased land, built a house and plowed just about every spare peso i could find to achieve this...so where do I stand, what rights do I have, if Helmut is anything to go by, I dont have any rights whatsoever, better then that my wife and I do not split up, I do not start womanizing and generally, behave myself in the Philippines.


So what about real estate and the plight of the foreigners, is it fair for spouses of Filipinos to be treated this way ?

And how would they feel if our government here in the United Kingdom, disallowed Filipinos from owning property, acquiring real estate, and ruled against them in the high court of appeal, if they had put any money in ?

Taking the differences in the economies of the two countries they are of course worlds apart, the Philippine congress and constitution has a good basis for not allowing foreigners to own real estate, one can understand that it might cause a price war and inflationary pressures, they might become the slaves to foreigners, and its a fair point.

But to my mind, the Constitution of the Philippines has no provision for those foreign citizens who are married to Filipino citizens, and

here it is YES IT SHOULD HAVE A PROVISION OR A CONCESSION

So lets start the debate in this area, should not a concession be forthcoming such as this.

All foreign citizens who are legally married under Philipine law should be permited to avail themselves of 1 residential property, their main residence in the Philippines, although they may not own a seperate parcel of land or other commericial properties, this should be on a lot not exceeding 500 square metres, and this should be deemed community property and should be divided equally between each party to the marriage, regardless of the outcome of such a marriage.

This concession would then redress the situation for foreigners, not withstanding that its pretty hard for foreigners to obtain banking facilities, get a phone in their house and get access to other services, I spoke to an accountant in the Philippines a very good freind of mine who told me

"Actually the Filipino mentality when it comes to foreigners is that they dont paticularly want them owning anything, and yes they do make it pretty difficult for them to get on..."

So lets look at the reverse side of the coin....and here is my viewpoint on the matter, some of you may agree with me, others may not, but thats the beauty of such a debate as this, you are all entitled to your viewpoint, but here is mine for what its worth.

Petes viewpoint.

A country such as the Philippines considers applications for permanent residency visa's from nationals of those countries that have reciprocal schemes in place, such as the United Kingdom.

For example, when you marry your Filipino citizen, she becomes your spouse, in time she may apply to have indefinate leave to remain, in time after 3 years he or she may apply to the Home Secretary to be naturalized as a British Citizen.

The Filipino citizen may as a UK Resident own real estate, they may purchase land, they may have a mortgage, take out loans, have credit cards, they are given many privilidges in our country, of which theirs does not reciprocate, to take this further, I read an article written by a certain Filipino journalist in Sun Star, who said, "We must be careful of how we treat foreigners in our country, "Filipinos abroad, are being treated badly because of the way we treat foreigners, denying them access to certain services, means our people in their countries are suffering, the object of this was Korea, but it could apply to anywhere"

So what about the permanent residency thing, the UK and Philippines have reciprocal agreements on visa's pensions, and social security, but not an agreement on real estate.

In my view, the UK and Philippines should have such an agreement in place, so lets debate, why should British Citizen spouses be denied the privilidge of owning a house they pay for, and would wish to live in, most Filipina's agree that the money for such purchases tends to be inward investment, this generally means that the money to buy such a property comes from outside the country, so why should they then be denied access to property rights even under the Family code, it seems to me that there is 1 rule for the Filipino and another for everyone else who is a foreigner.

And there is little point of anyone reading this coming back to me and saying "If you dont like it, you should not have married a Filipino, or my other favourite is this one

"if you dont like it you should not have bought a house there"

Whilst some of the above may have merit, it doesnt make the current situation fair, thats he same as if I had met an Eskimo and then found that I am not allowed to build an igloo...because I am barred from owning snow....because I am not an Eskimo.

My wife and I often talk about this very touch subject, and she knows my views, we laugh about it all the time, but there is a serious side to this debate.

Should the United Kingdom government provide within our laws a reciprocal provision that those countries whose constitution prohibits foreigners from owning a share of real estate, will also prohibit foreigners from those countries from owning real estate.

IN MY VIEW IT SHOULD - !

Dont get me wrong those who read this, I love my wife very much, i want the best for her, she has that privilidge here, she owns real estate, she has a 50 per cent share in my home, ( I should add a 50 per cent share in my 50 per cent share, since my ex wife has the other 50 per cent...so she has 25 per cent..sorry hahahaha) , our country conveys that on foreigners, it doesnt matter what your skin colour is, what place you call home, what your religion is, everyone regardless of where you were born, has that same right to own a little parcel of this great land, for as much as we moan, complain and criticize this country of ours,

NO ONE IS REALLY A FOREIGNER - THIS UK IS EVERYONES UK !

Now I have shown my hand of cards, you all know where I stand, lets debate the issue, who feels my points are valid, who does not agree with me...the floor is yours !

[fred]

I said I was going to give it a rest!! Now look what you have done!

Since you started..Just to feed the flames a little more..
Im not sure if you know this but even if I was mad enough to jump through their hoops and finally become a Filipino citizen guess what??
I still would not be entitled to own land.. Oh no!!
Why? I hear you shout?
Because to have the pleasure of owning soil in the land of smiles you must be a fully fledged NATURAL BORN FILIPINO.
Talk about obstacles!!
Hopefully GMA has some luck with Cha cha next time around (constitutional changes) I seem to remember that some of the proposals within the reams of paper work did mention something or other about Foreign ownership and land..
Perhaps that would be worth some researching Pete?

[andypaul]

Like i have written on here its not just phill brit familys this issue affects. It affects those who migt invest in the phill.

Say a rich investor wants to open a factory in the Phillpines from what i understand of the rules they can't in their own name. Even if they can open the factory which will employ possibly thousands of phills in the factory and in support services (every thing from delvivery drivers, cafe workers, to custom officers to check the goods they would export).
They can't buy a house in their own land yes they can rent but don't you want this rich investor to stay in the phillipines and not feel like a vistor?

If they feel like a vistor its far easier for them to move on, and not to stay and invest in phill.

Those who say only phillpinos can get the ecomony going need to exam the facts every country US,Germany,Japan,China even the UK has lots of forigen investment.

I know of Japanese nationals who have lived here for more than ten years and own propety they now feel an attachment to the UK so helping the UK attract more and continuing investment.

Care Workers are finding it harder to get in to the EU and in the future the US as they start to tap the latin american market for labour. Best idea is move the care homes to the Phillpines the weather is warmer and easier on the joints pensions go further and plenty of workers to look after you. Even british goverment pensions can be drawn in the Phillpines which is not possible in many countries.

But even if a british couple want to move here they will not be able to buy a house (Brits as most here know prefer to buy rather than rent)
Retirement villages could be opened up alongside areas where work is needed which will help the local ecomony. Not just care workers, but all the others services they will need.

If the Phillipines doesn't move quickly other countries will steal a march and they willl miss out or more to the point the everyday person will miss out on the investment it could bring.

If careful thought out it could transform the country and let people earn a living at home rather than away from family and friends.

[ginapeterb]

Thank you Fred sorry for giving you a headache over this, actually I hear what you are saying about Cha Cha and GMA however, they are always making noises about things like ownership of land by foreigners, they never do anything about it, some of my Filipino freinds tell me its the "Crab mentality" at work in the Phils.

Interestingly enough, do you know who is the largest foreign investor in the United States of America ?

Yep you got it...its the suprise suprise UNITED KINGDOM !

The United Kingdom invests more money in the U.S.A,. than any other country, the reason, because its good business to do so, its the worlds largest economy.

The areas in the world where most of the inward investment flows, is the triad, the triad being the U.S.A. the European Union, and Japan.

The Philippines will have to go along way to convincing foreigners to invest their money, that is of course once they have managed to get around all the graft, corruption and backhand culture that prevails.

Just look at the Broadband deal, still in the senate hearing on graft and corruption lead by Senator Pimentel, I watched it on TFC last week, its like a comedy of errors, very entertaining, and well worth a watch for entertainment alone.

Yes Fred, Andy, the Philippines inward looking, backward, protectionist policies hardly inspire foreigners to take their hard earned money and put it in the land of smiles.

[PeterB]

As someone else who has invested money in building and land in PI, and intends to do more so in the future, I support the views that there should be provision for foreign ownership.

After all, I'm providing jobs for those doing the building, and those working in the plantation - why should I have to do this through the goodwill of my fiancee and her family even after I'm permitted permanent residency, or even citizenship?

[andypaul]

From those who have been to thailand whats the rules there because a lot more Brits with no connection with country go there than phill yet the Phillpines is more brit friendly one would think in the amount of people that speak English? This was happening way before the beach came out but im sure that helped.

[baboyako]

An open real estate market works in the UK because it desperately requires investment (read more houses, renovated houses), and ultimately lowers real estate yields (rent) for those of us living/working here.

Investing in the Philippines through real estate does not benefit the Philippine economy :yikes:, no really. A Filipino laborer will be paid the minimum wage whether its a westerner paying or a local person.

To 'invest' you need to provide jobs that pay way above average per capita gdp (i.e. 20,000p/mo+ salary), rather than rob poor people of their land :NoNo:.

That is my view, that is what I am doing :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Yep you got it...its the suprise suprise UNITED KINGDOM !

The United Kingdom invests more money in the U.S.A,. than any other country, the reason, because its good business to do so, its the worlds largest economy.

Ahh..Ive learned something today..I thought it was the Saudi`s..

I personally have an awful lot of time for GMA..She was left with a real mess after the buffoon Erap was impeached.
Its hard to believe I know but this year the R.P economy has seen the fastest growth in Asia.
During her term she has done her level best to give foreign investment every encouragement..
The Philippines has more than $1 trillion of natural recourses such as gold,copper and nickel hidden under its soil..Her term has seen changes in the law that allows certain foreign mining companies 100% ownership of their businesses here..Yes I said 100%!! Unheared of in previous years.
The money is piling in and the national debt has been reduced this year..Next years prospects are looking even better.
She backed cha cha with all of her might but was pulled back by the power of the wealthy elite that must not allow these changes to succeed.
Her victories are not really spoken of here as the masses cannot yet see the benefits..They are still reeling from the effects of the introduction of EVAT which IMO was an essential measure..
How many sari sari stores that you know of declare their income?? None that I know of.
Now they pay taxes automatically when purchasing their stock.Its tough medicine but very much needed here..
Im not really up to date with the next round of constitutional change battles but with GMA on the case I for one will await with baited breath,especially as it contains land reform changes..
Like I said before..It might be worth keeping an eye on..

Many will scoff at my opinions of this woman in power but it just comes from my personal observations of her results whilst in office..

Have you noticed the rise in property prices here just lately?
Im glad I built my building when I did..
BTW..Im also glad that you managed to build yours...
Anyway..Next time your anywhere near Manila,come over and lets share a case or three..
Cheers,
Fred.

[fred]

An open real estate market works in the UK because it desperately requires investment (read more houses, renovated houses), and ultimately lowers real estate yields (rent) for those of us living/working here.

Investing in the Philippines through real estate does not benefit the Philippine economy :yikes:, no really. A Filipino laborer will be paid the minimum wage whether its a westerner paying or a local person.

To 'invest' you need to provide jobs that pay way above average per capita gdp (i.e. 20,000p/mo+ salary), rather than rob poor people of their land :NoNo:.

That is my view, that is what I am doing :xxgrinning--00xx3:

A lot of foreigners want the same..This is because they miss the good ole days when they could rent a 3 bed house for 500 a month.
Filipino`s are already priced out of the land and housing market..Thats why there are so many vacant lots used as rubbish dumps.
How does that help those working on a minimum wage?

[andypaul]

An open real estate market works in the UK because it desperately requires investment (read more houses, renovated houses), and ultimately lowers real estate yields (rent) for those of us living/working here.

Investing in the Philippines through real estate does not benefit the Philippine economy :yikes:, no really. A Filipino laborer will be paid the minimum wage whether its a westerner paying or a local person.

To 'invest' you need to provide jobs that pay way above average per capita gdp (i.e. 20,000p/mo+ salary), rather than rob poor people of their land :NoNo:.

That is my view, that is what I am doing :xxgrinning--00xx3:

But if more non phills live in an area they use the local services, very few people buy a house and then import all the food/electricty/water from abroad using there own driver.

Services only the non phills use will crop up resturants,shops etc.

So those phills not working will be able to work. Also if more people are in work supply and demand suggests that the labour prices will rise due to people working in the area.

Also how can you attract investors if you tell them they have to waste money renting a house or having a pokey condo with little resale value?

How many people are you going to pay 200 pounds a month to? That itself can cause problems as rival businesses will not be happy and be having queit chat with local officials about it seeing what they can do to avoid that problem.

[andypaul]

Ahh..Ive learned something today..I thought it was the Saudi`s..

I personally have an awful lot of time for GMA..She was left with a real mess after the buffoon Erap was impeached.
Its hard to believe I know but this year the R.P economy has seen the fastest growth in Asia.
During her term she has done her level best to give foreign investment every encouragement..
The Philippines has more than $1 trillion of natural recourses such as gold,copper and nickel hidden under its soil..Her term has seen changes in the law that allows certain foreign mining companies 100% ownership of their businesses here..Yes I said 100%!! Unheared of in previous years.
The money is piling in and the national debt has been reduced this year..Next years prospects are looking even better.
She backed cha cha with all of her might but was pulled back by the power of the wealthy elite that must not allow these changes to succeed.
Her victories are not really spoken of here as the masses cannot yet see the benefits..They are still reeling from the effects of the introduction of EVAT which IMO was an essential measure..
How many sari sari stores that you know of declare their income?? None that I know of.
Now they pay taxes automatically when purchasing their stock.Its tough medicine but very much needed here..
Im not really up to date with the next round of constitutional change battles but with GMA on the case I for one will await with baited breath,especially as it contains land reform changes..
Like I said before..It might be worth keeping an eye on..

Many will scoff at my opinions of this woman in power but it just comes from my personal observations of her results whilst in office..

Have you noticed the rise in property prices here just lately?
Im glad I built my building when I did..
BTW..Im also glad that you managed to build yours...
Anyway..Next time your anywhere near Manila,come over and lets share a case or three..
Cheers,
Fred.


Good point and like you avoiding poltics from any country i can see they are slowly trying to improve the lot.
I bet some of the price rise in the future will be from the poor souls who are careworkers, hotel staff or nurses loose their jobs or visas in the UK and go home taking there savings with them.

[baboyako]

I really don't see how buying a field of mud for a million pesos, building a 5 bed house, the employing a maid, chauffeur, cook, nanny etc at 2000p/mo can be called investment.

If I can employ someone, and sell what they do and turn a profit then I call that investment.

[fred]

What do you think Im doing here??
I have no retirement benefits as I am far too young.
Im employing 7 guys here that would otherwise be struggling to get work and Im spending hard cash every day building my business which also keeps people working and earning,eating,drinking...
My building has 15 tenants from all parts of the world that also spend their cash on furniture,appliances,resteraunts,taxis,blah blah blah..keeping more people employed that spend their money on other local products keeping more people busy...
X me by another 50,000 expats and foriegn enterprise and Bobs your uncle.
If market forces demand that the locals demand salary increases then bring it on..
I`m up for that...Its no skin off of my nose as I will be able to increase rents.
Its called a local market economy.

[PeterB]

I really don't see how buying a field of mud for a million pesos, building a 5 bed house, the employing a maid, chauffeur, cook, nanny etc at 2000p/mo can be called investment.
Because it's improving the local economy by bringing in money earned in the west?

[andypaul]

I really don't see how buying a field of mud for a million pesos, building a 5 bed house, the employing a maid, chauffeur, cook, nanny etc at 2000p/mo can be called investment.

If I can employ someone, and sell what they do and turn a profit then I call that investment.


Well i guess you could say if enough people "invested" by employing people in phill then the extra money in the system would give the phill ecomony a boost. The money filters to the goverment as more evat is paid, on goods bought. If you employed four people on decent wages you have possibly freed up four jobs and they are likely to spend money which goes to the phill ecomony. If just 4 or 5 thousand investors like that did the same you would have 16 to 20 thousand more jobs in the phillpines directly plus many others possible indirectly. Plus 320,000 to 400,000 pounds more in the ecomony each month.

I think many on here only think from the Brit phill couple prespective i was just thinking non phill people in general.

If a couple who had a decent amount in the bank wanted to retire somewhere you might say why not try the Phillipines? Its cheap to live, english is spoken, pretty good links with the Uk, hong kong etc. You can get your state pension paid out there and keep your money in the bank.

They say great where can we buy a place? oh you can't, apart from a condo. Oh maybe not then.

If a investor wanted to open a factory possibly employing thousands but due to the fact they are careful with there money(as most super rich people are) and knowing they are working in a country where the laws are differnt they wanted to own the facotory outright and there house as well.

In the phillpines they would say yes invest your money here we have a great flexible workforce, labour is cheap etc. But oh by the way you can't own anything here. I don't think i would bother.

Why would anyone(whose non phill) at any level invest in phill if they are so anti anyone owning anything there. The only people that benefits is the ruling class as they know if people became more affulent they would question things more.

[ginapeterb]

Hi everyone I just came home from spending in the UK economy, and if my feet are anything to go by, John Lewis and House of Frazer certainly have had the pleasure of my debit card today, and there is a certain smile on the face of my ever grateful Filipino wife...


Have you noticed the rise in property prices here just lately?
Im glad I built my building when I did..
BTW..Im also glad that you managed to build yours...
Anyway..Next time your anywhere near Manila,come over and lets share a case or three..
Cheers,
Fred.

I have read all your points so far, a good debate is emerging and its good to hear what you all feel, Freds point about GMA and her 10 point plan seems to be producing some benefits, and isnt the peso doing well against the dollar, the dollar has lost a about 10 per cent of its value in the last year or so, and experts predict even more over next 2 years.

Thanks Fred about your point, yes I have noticed real estate lots going up, we have been informed that the valuation of our land has risen by 30 per cent since we bought it, I was pushing and pushing my wife to let us buy a plot of land back in 2004, I wish we had done, we did not purchase until 2007, and didnt start finishing the work until July 2007.

Those 2 years spent dithering had cost us dearly on the same land, we had to purchase at a price of over 30 per cent in that 2 years, even now, our home with the 2 lots is valued at 3.5 Million, the more it rises, its unlikely that any one would ever be interested in buying it, but not that we want to sell as we dont, we just built a beautiful english country gazebo, the funny thing is the locals think its a Bahay Kubo, when its not...

hahaha, its the only English country Gazebo in the province, going onto Boboyakos point about labour, we have employed over 15 people in the house project, we employed a futher 7 to build the gazebo, we spent countless thousands of pesos in the local economy, I purchased a Kia Sportage which put P250,000 into the local economy, It was purpose built from spares/carcasses brought in from Korea, all of this has pumped in valuable resources into the local economy.

My wife and I have a resident housekeeper in the Phils who is my wifes best freind, whilst we are back in UK, she house sits and takes care of all bills, and maintenance etc, she lives in..and takes care of the house.

She does not clean the house, we also have an assistant who comes in to take care of the cleaning each day the lady is part of the family, and we also have a part time security guard who patrols around the area for us, to maintain the security of the house and lots, and our property.

Again, this provides jobs for locals, thats the best way I can help in the economy, plus even when I am in Phils, I have help in the form of a driver/companion, who goes around town with me, drives occasionally and drives my wife around when she is alone, thats when I am not driving or if I cannot be bothered, he also acts as my bodyguard in downtown areas, if we go on a trip up the mountains, some of the areas are dangerous, Brian our driver acts as local help in areas where he is filwise.

And yes Fred if I am in Manila on the way through to the provinces, would be happy to stop by and have a few beers with you.

[Peanutz]

Maybe a signed petition from ex pats, companies and locals can move mountains?
I agree that a foreigner should have the same previlege like the same previlege I am entitled living abroad. I vote for concessions with restrictions though.

[andypaul]

Maybe a signed petition from ex pats, companies and locals can move mountains?
I agree that a foreigner should have the same previlege like the same previlege I am entitled living abroad. I vote for concessions with restrictions though.

Not sure its top of the agenda at the moment.

But the boost of capital into the country would kick the phill ecomony into a different league in the cities at least.

[IainBusby]

I don't know if it's right or not, but I've been told by some of the ex-pats living in Cagayan de Oro that you can own the property but not the land upon which it is built. So what some have told me is if you want to build a home here, get a smart lawyer who will find a Filipino, probably one of his extended family, who, for a fee, will be the owner of land and give you a 99 year lease at a nominal P100 per year.

It all sounded a bit dodgy to me and it is something I was going to make a post about to see anyone on here had any experience of this sort of thing, if what I have been told is correct and if so, are there any pitfalls one would have to be aware of before getting into this sort of thing.

Louella & Iain.

[andypaul]

I don't know if it's right or not, but I've been told by some of the ex-pats living in Cagayan de Oro that you can own the property but not the land upon which it is built. So what some have told me is if you want to build a home here, get a smart lawyer who will find a Filipino, probably one of his extended family, who, for a fee, will be the owner of land and give you a 99 year lease at a nominal P100 per year.

It all sounded a bit dodgy to me and it is something I was going to make a post about to see anyone on here had any experience of this sort of thing, if what I have been told is correct and if so, are there any pitfalls one would have to be aware of before getting into this sort of thing.

Louella & Iain.

Sounds very risky asking a lawyer to do something you need to trust them on:omg:

Wouldn't want to risk a court battle with a Lawyer defending one of his family if a dispute arose regarding the lease, who knew the lease inside out as they set it up.

[gWaPito]

hi to all,
The way it was put to Gemma and I from our solicitor in Davao is, if I (british citizen) wanted to have my name on the permit plate in our first store I would need to 'invest' 25 million peso's, at the time that was not possible but by doing that I could buy house and land in my name through the business.

OH! someone mentioned about Pete buying a 'mud field' etc not being real investment the Philippines. I think if that person knew the full story of Pete and his wife's plans, (not dreams!!) they would of not made those harsh comments

[Banana]

I really don't see how buying a field of mud for a million pesos, building a 5 bed house, the employing a maid, chauffeur, cook, nanny etc at 2000p/mo can be called investment.

If I can employ someone, and sell what they do and turn a profit then I call that investment.

let's forget your definition of "investment" for a moment :)

Investment can be in services or goods and you have quoted an wxample of each.

If your point is that investment should generate profit then you have to look at the country's GDP figure which will include "profit" from wages of maids, chauffuers etc.

[andypaul]

let's forget your definition of "investment" for a moment :)

Investment can be in services or goods and you have quoted an wxample of each.

If your point is that investment should generate profit then you have to look at the country's GDP figure which will include "profit" from wages of maids, chauffuers etc.

Funnily enough London and the UKs recent boom was due to investment in real estate both by locals and people from abroad. Look how the superwealthy moving to London has pumped Millions into the Ecomony.

[David House]

I am in the process of spending a pretty large sum in the Philippines to buy a house and was obviously concerned about the situation. I cannot hold title on the land, but can on the house, but this is a useless arrangement if anything happened to our marriage or my wife pre-deceased me, when the wife's family would inherit and not me. I briefed an attorney to find a solution which he has done. It requires the establishment of a Filipino company in which I hold only 40% of the issued share capital, the remaining 60% being split between 4 Philippine residents (not necessarily Filipinos, they can be British) who each hold a nototional 15%. These share holders all give me an irrevocable authority to act for them at board meetings, so in effect I control the company which owns then owns the house. The only questions yet to be answered are if this produces any tax implications.

[David House]

Interesting too:-
New Dual Citizenship Laws Affecting Property Ownership

Dual citizenship means having two citizenships and passports from two different countries. Dual citizenship is now available for the following:

* Former Filipino citizens born in the Philippines, but have immigrated to another country and obtained citizenship of that country.

* A foreign spouse married to a Filipino citizen.

Dual citizenship allows the citizenship holder full rights of possession of Philippine real property. This is a new law and it is still unclear as to the procedures involved to implement it.

[aposhark]

I can understand why the Philippines only allows it's own people to own land.
I was in Vietnam many times since 1977 and the way they allowed the Chinese to buy up the prime land was scandalous for the long haul, only useful in the short term to build up foreign reserves.
Just a thought.

[stretch33]

I don't know if it's right or not, but I've been told by some of the ex-pats living in Cagayan de Oro that you can own the property but not the land upon which it is built. So what some have told me is if you want to build a home here, get a smart lawyer who will find a Filipino, probably one of his extended family, who, for a fee, will be the owner of land and give you a 99 year lease at a nominal P100 per year.

It all sounded a bit dodgy to me and it is something I was going to make a post about to see anyone on here had any experience of this sort of thing, if what I have been told is correct and if so, are there any pitfalls one would have to be aware of before getting into this sort of thing.

Louella & Iain.
Hi, Thought l would add my two pence worth here and may help out. I had my house built in Davao, on a gated subdiv and opted to take out a 50 year lease through the developer /builder. The arrangement suited me just fine and all went thru very smoothly and all notorized and legal Ok its only for 50 years but at my age l will be pushing up daisies well before the expiry. The lease agreement also allows for my fiance to be added once we finally get hitched and then becomes jointly owned (60/40) I pay an annual lease fee of P3000. I spent ages going thru al the papers and have to say im satisfied with what l got. Its not a palace but its home.

[IainBusby]

Hi, Thought l would add my two pence worth here and may help out. I had my house built in Davao, on a gated subdiv and opted to take out a 50 year lease through the developer /builder. The arrangement suited me just fine and all went thru very smoothly and all notorized and legal Ok its only for 50 years but at my age l will be pushing up daisies well before the expiry. The lease agreement also allows for my fiance to be added once we finally get hitched and then becomes jointly owned (60/40) I pay an annual lease fee of P3000. I spent ages going thru al the papers and have to say im satisfied with what l got. Its not a palace but its home.

Sounds like maybe a safer way of doing the same thing as I described in my earlier post. Does anyone know of any drawbacks with this sort of arrangement when it's done through a developer and properly notorized etc.
Iain.

[Andy]

I’ve not heard of leasing from a developer/builder before & it’s not something that’s been mentioned on the various foreigner/Phils groups (not that this means it's not legal). I assume the developer/builder keeps the land title? I am not 100% certain, but I'm sure I've read that land leases are only available in 25 year blocks of time.

“….becomes jointly owned (60/40)…” I don’t see how this can work, as a foreigner can’t own land – even 1%. Once married, the wife could own the land & her husband can rent it from his wife (I think this can happen).


Andy
Surrey

[PeterB]

All property that we've bought is owned by "Ruby Bell, married to Peter Bell" and, as far as I can see, my agreement is required for any transaction concerning the property. Okay, I can never own it outright (unless the Philippine law changes), but I do have a say about what happens to it.

I guess that the real problem would occur if (heaven forbid), Ruby dies before I do. If that should become a concern for me, I guess the best protection would be to have children who would inherit (although Inheritance Tax would become payable).

[keithAngel]

A very wise man I met in Thailand once said dont invest anything over here you cant either pack eat or walk away from .

Nothing I have seen in this forum has made that advice invalid.

No matter what scheme you find it will not prevent the goalposts moving and whilst it may make you feel safe at the time dont count on it being worth the paper it probably wont be written on

[Andy]

A correction to my previous post.

Originally I wrote "...Once married, the wife could own the land & her husband can rent it from his wife (I think this can happen)...".

I've now read on another expat/Phils forum that this is NOT allowed. Under Phils Family Code property owned by a married couple is conjugal/community property.


Andy,
Surrey