what a mess advice please

[mick foreman]

Hi All, my story begins in August 2011 when I met Monera online it soon became apparent after spending as many hours as we had spare on Skype chatting we both wanted to meet each other very soon, so in January 2012 I arrived in the Philippines to meet her and to say we got on well is an understatement, the day before my return to the uk i asked Monera if she would marry me her answer was yes 100 % I want that. She said obviously I will need to get annulled first as her ex had walked out on her 4 years previous after only 4 months marriage. So the day after my return Monera contacted her cousin to get the name and address of the lawyer she had used for her annulment. To cut a long story short, Monera met this lawyer and a price was agreed of 2.500 pounds and he said 6 months all will be finished and half payment now and half on completion. In the meantime we arranged that October I would go out again and we would marry, as this time approached the lawyer had not completed the papers and we were both beginning to sweat a little as now I had everything required and Monera had not. Two weeks before my arrival the lawyer rang Monera and told her he would meet her at the nso in Manila on the 6th October with everything she needed to take to the british embassy for our appointment on the 8th October.

We submitted our papers and the local license was issued. we married on the 19th October 2012. Monera got the marriage certificate and then applied for her passport with her new name all was going well. We applied for visit visa as I was in shared accommodation at the time as we both agreed be better to apply for the spouse visa when I had sorted my own apartment out, but the visa was refused. Monera was so disappointed so I booked flights to visit her again. When I returned I had a letter saying I could move into my rented apartment the end of July. this was the news we had both been waiting for as now we were getting to the position of being able to apply for the the magical spouse visa!!

So after getting myself straight in the apartment and a few messages on this forum we started sorting paperwork for the spouse visa this now was August 2013.

Then our world fell apart, out of the blue her ex e-mailed Monera asking how she could marry without being annulled. Monera laughed and replied to him not to be so stupid. She went to the nso to ask for certificate she got it but with no record of annulled on it. We were at our wits end devastated. The lawyer had disappeared and all the paperwork was fake.

Monera is a muslim . she was speaking to her friend who told her that's no problem because being a muslim she was free to marry 6 months after her husband left her. Her friend knew the judge in Gensan at the sharia court and would contact him on Moneras behalf and explain everything to him. This judge wanted to meet Monera, so I booked flights for Monera to go there and meet him 3 weeks later and another 600 pounds. Monera has all her papers with divorced on them and all official this time but with dates from that time November 2013 -13 months after our wedding - so its now November and I am flying out 19th December to spend another 20 days with Monera

So after many hours of chat, tears and fighting through stress we decide maybe the best thing to do is marry again for the purpose of the visa, so a couple of days after arriving in Manila on the 23rd December we go to the city hall to meet the judge's secretary who married us to see how we go about this, he said we needed see a lawyer and he would contact him, so we waited and waited and then was told the lawyer's in Jolibee around the corner he will meet you there !!!!!

We met the lawyer told him what had happened and he said ok 250.000 peso he can get my name and Moneras removed from records at the nso, it will take a year and we can marry again !!!! Then Monera explained she is Muslim to him and then he said that's ok then try that first, get a letter from the judge at the sharia court with an explanation
saying you were free to marry 6 months after your husband walked out and put that in visa application !!!!!

Monera contacted the judge in Gensan at the sharia court and he has put a letter together explaining that although her divorce is dated after our wedding she was able to legally get married when she did.


I have lost 2 stone and I cant tell you how many sleepless nights through the stress. when I got off the plane in Manila Monera was shocked when she saw me, and I was shocked at how much weight she had lost.

And so far with paying for this and that I reckon on over 5000 pounds so far!!

Now the questions:
Are we married? Whats the chances of spouse visa in your valued opinions??


Cheers Mick and Monera

sorry if too many spelling mistakes this is taking its toll now 2

[gWaPito]

If you have the annulment, NSO and marriage cert in order that's all what matters. No need to give them rhyme and verse. The less said, the better. They wont investigate. You've been together quite a while with many flights..all this will help you both. So i hope you kept the tickets. :biggrin:

Good luck to the both of you :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[tiger31]

wow that is a mess but i,m not so sure it will be as simple as mark says .one slip up on the visa paperwork and its an even bigger mess in my opinion

[gWaPito]

wow that is a mess but i,m not so sure it will be as simple as mark says .one slip up on the visa paperwork and its an even bigger mess in my opinion

It's only coz I've gone through the process twice Brian..Spouse and fiancee with different women :doh

[tiger31]

It's only coz I've gone through the process twice Brian..Spouse and fiancee with different women :doh

yes I know mark but your cases were straight forward were they not ? this story has a lot of ifs and buts .There is a lot of explaining to do here and what i,m saying is just a simple mistake on the application form will get a denial because of the complicated situation here

[gWaPito]

yes I know mark but your cases were straight forward were they not ? this story has a lot of ifs and buts .There is a lot of explaining to do here and what i,m saying is just a simple mistake on the application form will get a denial because of the complicated situation here

Yep, I stand corrected Both of mine were straight forward Brian. Hopefully their's will be too with the papers in order. I know they had to go around the houses getting it all together ....now that they seemingly have, it should all fall into place. He's been back and forth numerous times, that alone should bode well for them in the application. There courtship should do likewise. Proof of travel etc. ..it all makes nice reading. What i'm saying is, they don't need to tell them why, this and what for.
What do i know :-) I'm only going by my past experiences of dealing with these people.
It's human nature. .folks don't normally look to extend their workload out of charity. They act on what's put b4 them. :-))

[Michael Parnham]

Good luck with everything, hope it works out ok for both of you. Please keep us posted! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mick foreman]

I wish I was as confident as others !!! everytime we overcome one problem another is put in our paths, we have also had to contend with Moneras ex causing all kinds of trouble . The last 4 and a half months we have been to hell and back but we both keep telling each other never will we give up until we reach our goal.

[gWaPito]

We feel for you Mick...i can't imagine the pain you guys are going through..Keep looking here ok, maybe someone with a similar experience further down the line than you can give you advice

Regards
Mark Xx

[mick foreman]

Any advice on what to do ? Help plz
:doh

[stevewool]

what a story you both have, if you are meant to be together you will be, it takes time to get there, just be prepared to wait, thats all i can offer, good luck to you both

[Terpe]

Any advice on what to do ? Help plz
:doh

Hi Mick,

Yours is not a simple case.
You need to move it forward with caution.

Take a look at the 'paper' application forms and guidance:-

Personal Details Form - VAF4A (spouse visa) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/visas/vaf4a.pdf)

APPENDIX 2 - VAF 4A Financial Requirement (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/visas/vaf4a2.pdf)

Guidance Notes (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/visas/vaf2-8b-guidance.pdf)

Guide to Supporting Documents (outside UK applications) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/out-of-country/sup-docs-settlement.pdf)

Go through the questions and review what your answers would be.

Answer the questions simply but honestly.
Don't be fooled into thinking UKBA does not take time to check. They have access to many data-bases worldwide.

Some folks on this forum have been 'caught-out' even when mistakes were totally honest caused by misunderstanding the questions on the form.
Needless to say they faced refusal under immigration rules para 320 (used deception in an entry clearance)

Mick, please take some time to go through the questions.


I'm not sure whether or not this UKBA Marriage validity flowchart (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/ecis/ecg/marriage-validity-flowchart.pdf) will be of any help but worth a look anyway.


The ECO must be satisfied that you are validly married to each other.

Any marriage taking place outside the UK is governed by the following three questions:-
- Is the type of marriage one that is recognised in the country in which it took place?
- Was the actual marriage properly executed so as to satisfy the requirements of the law of the country in which it took place?
- Was there anything in the law of either party's country of domicile that restricted his / her freedom to enter the marriage?

Where ECO has any doubts at all over the recognition of the marriage or whether it was properly and legally executed to satisfy the law of the Philippines.
It's the responsibility of the applicant to provide evidence of a properly and legally executed marriage.

Normally that would be valid marriage certificate.

Go over the applications questions.
Double check the paperwork - especially dates.
If there is any conflict of dates do not take any risks.

There are quite a few Philippine solicitors operating in London that may be able to help you through the documentary/legal issues.
I don't have their details to hand right now, but maybe others can post them up

[mick foreman]

Thank you so much for that, I think I need speak to one of them solicitors, Monera has spoken to the judge in the sharia courts and he is adamant that she was legally allowed to marry and has written a letter on headed paper to explain this for us to use in visa application. He is on vacation at this time but when he gets back to Gensan he is going to look to see if it's possible for him to change the dates on her divorce papers.

If I could get my hands on that lawyer that ripped us off !!!! we have been to his offices twice together trying to track him down, but we have only managed to get his son who told us his dad had a major drink and casino addiction and has left his wife. They no longer have any more contact with him. Whether that is true or not I really don't know !!! :cwm23:

But that does not help us.

We have been told that the marriage certificate is valid we have.

[Terpe]

....We have been told that the marriage certificate is valid that we have.

Mick, the only thing that really matters or counts is that the documents do NOT show any contradictions especially on dates etc and that the ECO or Caseworker are satisfied enough to 'tick the box'.

Minimise risks wherever you can. This is life impacting serious.....

[mick foreman]

This is the problem the dates on her divorce papers are 13 months after our wedding date !!!!

I am throwing money about here there and everywhere and getting nowhere !!!

[Terpe]

This is the problem the dates on her divorce papers are 13 months after our wedding date !!!!

Then you already know that as it stands right now the ECO will have serious questions about whether it was properly and legally executed.
The papers must be acceptable to the ECO

[tiger31]

This is why I said the utmost care must be taken when applying as one slip up then thats it game over. my sis n law made one mistake with her dates when applying for her U.S visa and got denied and now has no hope of ever setting foot in the U.S. so I can,t even offer any on advice on this one but wish you good luck anyway.

[Terpe]

This is why I said the utmost care must be taken when applying as one slip up then thats it game over .my sis n law made one mistake with her dates when applying for her U.S visa and got denied and now has no hope of ever setting foot in the U.S .so I can,t even offer any on advice on this one but wish you good luck anyway.

Indeed Brian.

We have had forum members make innocent mistakes such as that and been denied under immigration rule 320 for deception.
Such refusals can lead to automatic refusals for a period of time

[tiger31]

Indeed Brian.

We have had forum members make innocent mistakes such as that and been denied under immigration rule 320 for deception.
Such refusals can lead to automatic refusals for a period of time

The americans are very harsh on mistakes once you make one it stays in the computer forever and that,s it she will never get in now she hasn,t seen her husband for a few years he can,t afford to come over as hes nearly to retire that,s when he will come over, sad really but that,s the way it is.

[tiger31]

If I was in this position I would try the schengen route just to see if anything is picked up as it does,nt cost anything rather than risk losing even more money - just apply with marriage certificate and see what happens. other than that it will be a very frustrating journey ahead.

[mick foreman]

Feeling really confused and frustrated at the moment , we really don't know which way to move forward now !! any advice on what we can do to solve these issues ?
I wish I could find work in the Philippines now , I look every time I go out !! at least we could be together but at this time that looks a million miles away !!!!!
If anyone comes across a lawyer by the name of Junior Ortiges from Cabatuan please take care and I would also be interested of his whereabouts , but I know that will not solve our problems but may just help someone else out .

[Terpe]

Mick, I thought you were going to follow up with the sharia court to have corrections made to the dates on the divorce papers?

I think that's your best first step.

BTW has Monera previously secured an NSO CENOMAR ?
What does that state?
(sorry if you mentioned it before.....and I missed it)

[mick foreman]

Yes we are trying to do that but the judge has said he is not sure he can do that he needs look into it. I will put that question to Monera about nso cenomar and will put the answer up later.
I cant thank you enough for your advice and help it really is much appreciated.

[mick foreman]

Sorry for the delay answering your question Terpe had major problems with the laptop !!!!! more money !!!
The judge himself is doing a complete set of new divorce papers with the dates the same as on her first set of annulment papers june 2012 (another 50,000 pesos ), that was not completed due to the lawyer having major personal problems !!!! (conman) , The only problem with this now will be the date received by the town hall will show 2014 , and not 2012 not sure if that will be a major problem or not ?
You asked about Moneras cenomar and what that states are you asking about a recent one or one from a couple of years ago ?

[Terpe]

...You asked about Moneras cenomar and what that states are you asking about a recent one or one from a couple of years ago ?

Recent. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[mick foreman]

It is showing still married to her ex , she says that's because she has not submitted papers to the nso until the dates are corrected .

[fred]

I have no expertise in any of these matters..What I will say is take a deep breath and listen to Terpe..

Also,be VERY careful whom you pay money to in the R.P whom say they are there to "help".

There are countless amounts of experts,lawyers,judges etc that will take advantage of your situation/desperation and will continue to rob you blind..

I realize that this situation is really stressful and desperate for you at this time but my advice for you is to calm down and look at things rationally and with a calm resolution.

I`m certain that there is a way through this maze that you find yourself in but please slow down,read through this thread again and deal with the issues step by step.. DONT send any more money as these people can smell your desperation and are planning other routes (as we speak) to depart you with more..

[mick foreman]

Thx Fred

The judge has said he wants no money up front but will want payment on completion of the papers .
So maybe that is good news in one respect !

[Michael Parnham]

I have no expertise in any of these matters..What I will say is take a deep breath and listen to Terpe..

Also,be VERY careful whom you pay money to in the R.P whom say they are there to "help".

There are countless amounts of experts,lawyers,judges etc that will take advantage of your situation/desperation and will continue to rob you blind..

I realize that this situation is really stressful and desperate for you at this time but my advice for you is to calm down and look at things rationally and with a calm resolution.

I`m certain that there is a way through this maze that you find yourself in but please slow down,read through this thread again and deal with the issues step by step.. DONT send any more money as these people can smell your desperation and are planning other routes (as we speak) to depart you with more..

Good advice Fred!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[fred]

Good advice Fred!:xxgrinning--00xx3:


Cheers Micheal..
Common sense really... (having been involved with this place for so long)..
The biggest problem of trying to help decent ,honest people from the UK with no experience of the Philippines in situations like this is trying to persuade them of how corrupt its officials and so called professionals can be and how little empathy they possess in these stressful/life changing situations unless there is a pile of cash via money gram or western union etc ready to arrive.
When things get messy,they can get potentially very expensive here.. It really is time to take stock and for him to accept advice from our guys here on Filipino UK.. Hopefully,thats what will happen in this case.
Fred.

[grahamw48]

Yes, you can 'buy' anything there, but at the end of the day the documents have to pass muster with the Philippine and BRITISH authorities. Correct signatures, stamps, paper etc.