Looks impossible to settle back in the UK

[r0bb0]

Hi all,

I was hoping myself and my partner could move to the UK in a few months after we get married. Here's my situation - I have been living in the Philippines for 4 years with my girlfriend. We recently got engaged and plan to marry in June. During the past 18 months I have supported us with savings, so cannot show a regular income. According to a list of savings required a friend sent me it looks like 64k is the minimum needed if no regular salary coming in. I fall way below. Ironically I have a job waiting for me there as soon as I get back, but I guess that won't be enough. Also, with no fixed address in the UK I guess it's going to be a case of me moving back for 6 months on my own getting settled, then apply for the spouse visa later on.

I guess my question is has anybody else been in a similar situation and found a work-around? Also, my friend is now going through the process through a lawyer after his wife's spouse visa application was rejected. Are these lawyers who promise high success rates any good and worth the money?

[Terpe]

Hello r0bb0, let me offer you a warm welcome aboard Filipino UK :welcomex:

[grahamw48]

Hello Robbo.

Yes, I've been in that situation.

If you have a job here on offer, that's a great start. To satisfy earnings requirements for the settlement visa it will only need to be £18,600 a year gross.

All you need to do is come back here, start the job, find accommodation, work for 6 months, keeping your payslips, rental agreement etc, and you should then be in a position to sponsor your partner for a visa. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

...Are these lawyers who promise high success rates any good and worth the money?...

As I'm sure you know r0bb0, there's really a lot of people out there just waiting for your money.

Just be aware that there are no short cuts or guarantees for being granted a visa

Don't be taken in by claims of success rates. This is meaningless. Period.

Immigration advisors cannot do all the work for you, they cannot collect all the needed documented evidence. You still need to do that yourself.
All they can do is request that you provide all the documentary evidence and information that UKVI demand.

If your circumstances are complex or have some real weaknesses when compared to the immigration rules then I think engaging an experienced OISC registered advisor is a good idea.
Just be sure they understand your own complexity and have knowledge of caselaw that can help. You'll still be the one to gather all the information.

Alternatively, if you have the budget and would struggle to adequately prioritise time in your life to spend on it yourself (work commitments etc) then again it can be a helpful route.
You really don't want to go half-cocked and just forget or miss something. Don't cut corners, you need to be sure all requirements are done and dusted, all supporting documents included.
In short be fully compliant.

Most people do it themselves and very successfully too.

[tiger31]

robbo don,t forget there is another route into the u.k called the surringer singh route ,all you need to do is apply for shenghan visa in france or another e.u country stay for 3 months and a new rule has just come out that you don,t even need to work .you then apply for family permit for your wife to exercise your treaty rights job done and the visa is FREE .

[Terpe]

...I guess my question is has anybody else been in a similar situation and found a work-around?...

When it really comes down to being genuinely unable to meet the UK immigration rules then yes, there is a possible 'work-around'.

If, after researching a work-around, you're committed to follow it then I'd suggest you act pretty quickly as this government is slowly 'chipping' away at thoe rules and trying to make it as tricky as they can.

Take a good look at this thread (http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/51360-Filipina-trapped-in-the-Caribbean)


Please take time to read each post as you'll also pick up more information on the requirements of the UK Immigration rules.

Also do take special attention to post #10 in connection with EU rules and the EEA-route option (often referred to a Suringer Singh)

Please don't be shy to ask any questions you need.

[Terpe]

robbo don,t forget there is another route into the u.k called the surringer singh route ,all you need to do is apply for shenghan visa in france or another e.u country stay for 3 months and a new rule has just come out that you don,t even need to work .you then apply for family permit for your wife to exercise your treaty rights job done and the visa is FREE .

The UK regulations make it somewhat longer and more complicated that just staying for 3 months.
There's certainly no new rule that I'm aware of saying there's no need to work.

It's not an easy decision but it is a potential work-around for some.

[joebloggs]

and a new rule has just come out that you don,t even need to work

:Erm: any links to the change ?

UK Changes Rules on Surinder Singh Route

On 3 December 2013, the UK government adopted the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2013 (SI No 3032) which amend Regulation 9 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations. The new rules take effect on 1 January 2014.

From that date, it will now be a new requirement for those using the Surinder Singh route that “the centre of [the British citizen]’s life has transferred to the EEA State where [the British citizen] resided as a worker or self-employed person.”

The official Explanatory Note states:

‘Paragraph 5 of the Schedule replaces the existing regulation 9 of the 2006 Regulations to require a British citizen to have “transferred the centre of his or her life” to another member State in order to acquire a right of residence in the UK for his or her non-EEA family member seeking a right to reside in the UK upon their return. Factors relevant to whether the centre of a person’s life has been transferred to another member State include the period of residence in that member State, the location of that person’s principal residence, and the degree of integration. These changes are to ensure that a British citizen engages in genuine and effective use of the rights conferred by Directive 2004/38/EC before a right to reside in the United Kingdom is conferred on a non-EEA family member.’

read more here .. http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/

[tiger31]

:Erm: any links to the change ?

UK Changes Rules on Surinder Singh Route

On 3 December 2013, the UK government adopted the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2013 (SI No 3032) which amend Regulation 9 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations. The new rules take effect on 1 January 2014.

From that date, it will now be a new requirement for those using the Surinder Singh route that “the centre of [the British citizen]’s life has transferred to the EEA State where [the British citizen] resided as a worker or self-employed person.”

The official Explanatory Note states:

‘Paragraph 5 of the Schedule replaces the existing regulation 9 of the 2006 Regulations to require a British citizen to have “transferred the centre of his or her life” to another member State in order to acquire a right of residence in the UK for his or her non-EEA family member seeking a right to reside in the UK upon their return. Factors relevant to whether the centre of a person’s life has been transferred to another member State include the period of residence in that member State, the location of that person’s principal residence, and the degree of integration. These changes are to ensure that a British citizen engages in genuine and effective use of the rights conferred by Directive 2004/38/EC before a right to reside in the United Kingdom is conferred on a non-EEA family member.’

read more here .. http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/

i,m not very good at linking but there is a group on my facebook which is based on the free movement of partners of european citizens i,ll try and link it up

[tiger31]

i,m not very good at linking but there is a group on my facebook which is based on the free movement of partners of european citizens i,ll try and link it up

https://www.facebook.com/download/493008137492456/EEA%20Directive%202004%3A38%3AEC.pdf

[tiger31]

https://www.facebook.com/download/493008137492456/EEA%20Directive%202004%3A38%3AEC.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/download/521661227946156/Surinder%20Singh%20For%20Newbies%202014.pdf

[tiger31]

The UK regulations make it somewhat longer and more complicated that just staying for 3 months.
There's certainly no new rule that I'm aware of saying there's no don't need to work.

It's not an easy decision but it is a potential work-around for some.
Thats because its only just become active last week terpe .I am in a group that keeps upto date with all new rules and regulations regarding free movement of european citizens its very imformative and is keeping teresa may on her toes thats for sure .you can even bring grand parents in the S.S ROUTE as dependants

[tiger31]

all those with facebook ask to join the EEA VISA EU FREE MOVEMENT GROUP and you will get very helpfull info on there .

[Terpe]

Thats because its only just become active last week terpe .I am in a group that keeps upto date with all new rules and regulations regarding free movement of european citizens its very imformative and is keeping teresa may on her toes thats for sure .you can even bring grand parents in the S.S ROUTE as dependants

Might be that we're all thinking along different lines.

It's not necessary to be employed for an EU citizen to exercise freedom of movement rights
to freely move to EU member countries.
It's not necessary either for the Non-EEA family member in order to secure a Schengen Visa.

The OP could move to France say with his partner without a job or accommodation.

The issue though is how to follow the EEA route (Surinder Singh) to UK.
To gain legal entry to UK they would need to meet the UK regulations.
In principle means employed or self employed to meet treaty rights.

[joebloggs]

Might be that we're all thinking along different lines.

It's not necessary to be employed for an EU citizen to exercise freedom of movement rights
to freely move to EU member countries.
It's not necessary either for the Non-EEA family member in order to secure a Schengen Visa.

The OP could move to France say with his partner without a job or accommodation.

The issue though is how to follow the EEA route (Surinder Singh) to UK.
To gain legal entry to UK they would need to meet the UK regulations.
In principle means employed or self employed to meet treaty rights.


each EU country may have their own interpretation of regulations of the Surinder singh route,

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinder-singh-immigration-route/

what the EU courts have decided.


1. A residence period of three months is required (para 54)

2. Weekend visits and holidays do not count as residence for this purpose (para 59)

3. Any citizen of the Union can potentially benefit from this right, not just workers and the self employed (references to Article 7 of Citizens Directive 2004/38 , e.g. para 56, and to Article 21 of the TFEU, e.g. para 54)

4. During the period of residence family life must have been “created or strengthened” (para 51)

5. Abuse is impermissible (para 58)



but the UK's Gov interpretation is ..


UK Government’s interpretation of Surinder Singh

The UK Government’s official interpretation of the effect of Surinder Singh is set out in the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 at regulation 9 (as amended):

(1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a British citizen as if the British citizen (“P”) were an EEA national.

(2) The conditions are that–

(a) P is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom;
(b) if the family member of P is P’s spouse or civil partner, the parties are living together in the EEA State or had entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in the EEA State before the British citizen returned to the United Kingdom; and
(c) the centre of P’s life has transferred to the EEA State where P resided as a worker or self-employed person.

(3) Factors relevant to whether the centre of P’s life has transferred to another EEA State include–

(a) the period of residence in the EEA State as a worker or self-employed person;
(b) the location of P’s principal residence;
(c) the degree of integration of P in the EEA State.

(4) Where these Regulations apply to the family member of P, P is to be treated as holding a valid passport issued by an EEA State for the purpose of the application of regulation 13 to that family member.

Essentially, if the conditions in this paragraph are met then the British citizen will be treated by the UK Government as an EU citizen and can rely on the family reunion rules that apply to EU citizens.

However, it can be seen immediately that the ‘centre of life’ test has no place in the new case of O v The Netherlands. It is clear that the UK will have to amend the regulations, which are incompatible with EU law. That may take many months or even years, and in the meantime Home Office officials and immigration tribunal judges will have to apply O v The Netherlands directly.



Centre of life test

Until guidance is forthcoming from the Home Office addressed to its own officials, it is likely that decisions will apply the legally wrong UK regulations.

[Terpe]

...the new case of O v The Netherlands.

This is the case that causes concern for many now.

The UK government so far refuses to make changes.......means that applicants will need to go through the completely unecessary cost and inconvenience of appeals and have the immigration 'judge' overview any refusal by UKVI

[gWaPito]

This SS route looks an awful tedious affair:NoNo:

Surely it would be easier finding employment what pays. There's nothing saying in the rulebook that that £18500 must come from one job :NoNo: if I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected. Many backdoor men where I deliver have 2 jobs on the go. ...many of these are of Indian Asian decent now British citizens. They do this mainly to enable to bring in family.

Where's there's a will, there's a way :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[tiger31]

The u.k may well interpreterate how they like but european law over rides the u.k law so when challenged in the courts teresa may will lose.once your spouse gains a residence card in the host country they are permitted to enter If I am correct.

[Terpe]

I've known plenty of cases where application for Residence Card has been refused. :doh
Life can be a right pain without one.
It's never been mandatory to secure entry via a UK Family Permit, but most folks have followed that route as it's very easy and does allow trouble-free border crossing. It's not nice to be denied entry at a border. Or even to be refused check-in at the airport.
One advantage of the Family Permit is that it allows a smooth and trouble-free EEA-route to residence status and eventually PR

Our own John Carr will be interested in this. He's been wanting to visit UK with his wife but has been told he'll be turned away at the border as he doesn't comply with UK entry regulations.
As a retired person he's self-sufficient and told he's not considered as exercising treaty rights.
He even considered giving up his British Citizenship.
I'll see if I can locate he previous posts and add a link to this thread. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[r0bb0]

Thank you all for the input and advice. The SS route is starting to look like the best option. I've joined the FB page Tiger mentioned and am learning a lot from there. It's still a few months away before we start planning to move. I'll keep you updated on how we get on and what we decide.

Thanks again :xxgrinning--00xx3::smile: