Travel docs needed for France Schengen Visa for Filipina wife?

[Mrmlea]

Hi,

Having got through all the hassle of getting married in Phils and getting the visa for my wife, she is finally here in the UK :smile: So now we are tring to get a Schengen visa for her so that she can visit France with me.

Other people have said that you do not need any hotel or travel bookings to get the visa for her provided that she will be travelling with me. However it shows up on the document list from TLS contact that we require fully paid hotel and travel bookings for me (i.e. the EU spouse) but not for her. I queried this with TLS contact and this is their reply:

Dear Applicant
As a spouse of a EU national, you now need to provide proof of travel and accomodation in France
The bookings need to have your EU spouse's name. These are the new requirements for the French consulate
Regards
TLScontact Team


Does anyone else have any experience of this? Its not really a problem because I can just make a fully refundable booking in my name just in case, and then cancel it so that we can make our real travel plans at our leisure.

Thanks,

Martin & Aileen

[sars_notd_virus]

Hi,

Having got through all the hassle of getting married in Phils and getting the visa for my wife, she is finally here in the UK :smile: So now we are tring to get a Schengen Visa for her so that she can visit France with me.

Other people have said that you do not need any hotel or travel bookings to get the visa for her provided that she will be travelling with me. However it shows up on the document list from TLS contact that we require fully paid hotel and travel bookings for me (i.e. the EU spouse) but not for her. I queried this with TLS contact and this is their reply:

Dear Applicant
As a spouse of a EU national, you now need to odaprovide proof of travel and accomtion in France
The bookings need to have your EU spouse's name. These are the new requirements for the French consulate
Regards
TLScontact Team


Does anyone else have any experience of this? Its not really a problem because I can just make a fully refundable booking in my name just in case, and then cancel it so that we can make our real travel plans at our leisure.

Thanks,

Martin & Aileen

Hi Martin

I've never been to France (It's at the bottom of the list of my countries to visit) and obviously, I do not want to get a visa to go there.

but

as I read the reply from TLS for the applicant, it clearly states ''its their new requirements for French Consulate''
Provide proof of travel and accommodation in France (The bookings need to have your EU spouse's name).

Let's hope some of our members here who applied recently give you further advice.

btw,

Welcome to the forum.

[aprilmaejon]

When I applied for my French Schengen visa last year at TLS contact in London, they didn't require me to provide proof of travel and accommodations....but just recently, there was some changes. Now, you need to provide proof of travel and accommodation for EEU spouse Schengen Visa application.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/50866-Schengen-Visa?highlight=Schengen+visa

[stevewool]

Hi there, we did ours last year and we did not have to prove anything. We downloaded the forms and I even called them on the phone too, they said because you are a British Citizen and she is your wife then all you need it what is requested on the fomrs but no flights accomadation or insurance, its all very nerve racking, but I wish you well

[stevewool]

If you feel unsure, go direct to the French Embassy and go through them

[Mrmlea]

Thanks everyone for the replies and the pointer to the other thread about this subject. So it seems that the requirements have changed. £490 for a fully flexible refundable return eurostar ticket for one person - I hope the refund works!

On a related topic, if my wife applies for the visa as a "spouse of an EU citizen", does anyone know whether that visa can only ever be used for traveling with the spouse (me)? Or after she has traveled with me once can she then use it for travailing to the shengen region on her own? (Or more likely with other Pinay friends.)

Thanks,

Martin & Aileen

[marksroomspain]

Thanks everyone for the replies and the pointer to the other thread about this subject. So it seems that the requirements have changed. £490 for a fully flexible refundable return eurostar ticket for one person - I hope the refund works!

On a related topic, if my wife applies for the visa as a "spouse of an EU citizen", does anyone know whether that visa can only ever be used for traveling with the spouse (me)? Or after she has traveled with me once can she then use it for travailing to the shengen region on her own? (Or more likely with other Pinay friends.)

Thanks,

Martin & Aileen

Basically, the French Consulate have changed the rules about accommodation and travel documents and they are required - unlike the Spanish who just require travel docs ie: flights.

Adding to that the visa is free and guaranteed as long as you comply by their rules.

To your second point as the Schengen is issued free of charge ie: because she is the wife of a EU spouse then you are supposed to accompany her whilst you travel.

If she wishes to travel alone then she would have to go through the procedure of applying for a visa in her own right.

Hope the clarifies and enjoy your trip.....:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Mrmlea]

An update if anyone is interested.

My wife applied to the French Embassy for her Shengen visa as the wife of an EU citizen through TLScontact. She included printouts of return eurostar tickets and a hotel booking for *me* (the EU spouse) only, as that was what was specified on the document list and that was accepted by TLS contact. The only complaint that TLScontact has was about the marriage certificate being "almost illegible".

Anyway, two days later we had a message that the French Embassy were now asking to see my wife's travel tickets, despite that not being on the list of required documents. So I did another quick booking on the eurostar website and a trip to Olympia so submit these tickets. I was a bit worried that they might object because our two tickets were not booked together, and hers was booked after her visa application was submitted. But it seems not. Yesterday her passport arrived back by courier, with the schengen visa! :smile:

It is valid for 6 months for multiple entries, but as it says "EU spouse" on it it will only be valid for travelling with me, or to meet me. How strictly they check that I don't know, but I will certainly be with her for her first trip.

Thanks again for everyone's advice here.

Martin & Aileen

[marksroomspain]

If you read my earlier relpy to somebody else this visa is only for travel with you as the spouse and if she wishes to travel alone then she has to apply in her own right.

This I will say, don't jeopardise you wifes future applications for a schengen visa if she breaks the rules as I know of other people who have had subsequent applications refused because of this...:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[jlags90]

Paris CDG immigration certainly asked me last year if I am travelling with my husband. I was never asked at other airports, (e.g. Marco Polo, and Diagoras). It varies, but to be safe -- travel with her.

[Iani]

Please don't do this - but from experience of European "holiday" airports, I bet if anyone waved a Philippine passport at the bored looking guy with a Super Mario moustache, but walked through the EU arrivals line, you'd just be able to walk through :icon_lol:
So ok I'm going by experience in certain Spanish arrivals, but hey.

There's certainly examples of people who have picked up their siblings passports and nobody has noticed/cared.

I don't know, lazy Sunday morning, my mind is wandering, oooh look a kitty

[FilipinaDiver]

Hello all, I have a few questions to ask regarding with my future schengen application with the French Embassy. My husband and I are still waiting for my spouse visa here in Manila and we're thinking of going to France a week after I arrived in the UK. My questions are:

1. Can I apply as soon as I got there, under my current spouse visa?
2. How many days did it take you to get your schengen visa?
3. We're staying at our house in La Forge and we're a bit in a hurry to get a Attestation d’accueil (Certificate of Board and Lodging). Will the proof of ownership of the house will suffice for this?

Many thanks!

[Donutz]

Paid hotel reservations and paid transport? The French are getting it wrong... Even regular applicants only need to show confirmed transport and accommodation reservation, not actual tickets - except for rare cases.

For UK spouses: If the applicant is travelling to another Schengen Member State, then the one that your EU family member is a national of, and you are travelling together or the non EU/EEA national family member is travelling to join the EU/EEA national family member, then you are entitled to a FREE visa which should be granted swiftly (accelerated procedure, 15 calendar days max) and with minimum hassle.

Your application falls under Directive 2004/38/EC regarding the Freedom of Movement. It's important to know who qualifies as a family member of an EU/EEA citizen though.

A minimum of documentation and requirements apply: Travel Insurance is not required, hotel bookings are not required, transport bookings (flight) is not required etc. For a spouse the Marriage Certificate + possibly legalisation by the local Ministry of Foreign Affairs to confirm it's a genuine document + official translation to a language that the Embassy can read should be sufficient.

Sadly, not all Embassies apply the Visa Code properly.

There should be no need for hotel reservations, insurance or other such things.

- Show that the applicant (non EU) is first line family of an EU national: Provide the Marriage Certificate (translated if need be, there should be no need to register a Thai marriage in the EU spouse's (his/her) country).

- Provide the passports of both of you so they can ID you.

- Confirmation that the two of you will be traveling together or joining each other in the Member State: Declaration by the EU spouse indicating such should be sufficient, optionally as extra evidence a reservation for transport to the EU.

Some Embassies strictly advise not to make any financial commitments such as bookings until the visa has been issued.

See:

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_1620_en.pdf

- http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038

Also note that TLS and VFS are entirely optional! You can verify this in the Schengen Visa Code Regulation 810/2009/EC and one of the handbooks. You can also share your experience with bad execution of EU rules to the EU Home Affairs Department:

- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

[Arthur Little]

The French are getting it wrong ...

Hmm :cwm25: ... interesting! :yeahthat:'s what I've often thought. :icon_rolleyes: They must surely think the British are a "bunch :biggrin: of doughnuts"! :doh

[Donutz]

Hmm :cwm25: ... interesting! :yeahthat:'s what I've often thought. :icon_rolleyes: They must surely think the British are a "bunch :biggrin: of doughnuts"! :doh
Doughnuts that smell like elderberries. ;)

Though to be honest, most EU members are getting it wrong, the Brits don't want to give visa free access to holders of resident cards that say "family member of an EU/EAA national" on it. Even though these can travel visa free around the EU if they travel with this family member. And asking for a RP that is valid for at least 3 months after returning to the UK is silly too, the passport should be valid for at least 3 months upon returning but there is not any requirement about how long a residence permit or card should be valid for. For those travelling with their EU/EAA spouse it's even less relevant. Those should even be able to travel around on expired papers (not something I'd suggest though!).

Before anyone asks about skipping VFS, see article 17 of the Schengen Visa Code (810/2009/EC) or the smaller of two handbooks available on the EU Home Affairs website, page 21-22 concerning direct access.

In all it's a bloody shame that Embassies are making it rather difficult for us all who wish to enjoy time with our partner (spouse, girlfriend or boyfriend) from abroad. At least it's easier traveling to another EU/EAA country as a married couple but it's not always as fast and easy as it should be.

[EdwardB]

: Travel Insurance is not required, hotel bookings are not required, transport bookings (flight) is not required etc.

Sadly, not all Embassies apply the Visa Code properly.

There should be no need for hotel reservations, insurance or other such things.

Some Embassies strictly advise not to make any financial commitments such as bookings until the visa has been issued.

See:

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_1620_en.pdf

- http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038

Also note that TLS and VFS are entirely optional! You can verify this in the Schengen Visa Code Regulation 810/2009/EC and one of the handbooks. You can also share your experience with bad execution of EU rules to the EU Home Affairs Department:

- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Having got a UK visa - Macau residents, me Brit National her Pinay, very quickly went on for Schengen. Required application in Hong Kong ( call it £50) and then return with day off work to receive refusal - in her case at least £250 based on lost earnings as a Physio. They still called her back all the way to HK for a refusal. TOTALLY NUTZ

She was even required to pay visa fee despite filing 34 and 35 as family - should be no fee for family of EU National

To my astonishment she got turned down today on

1. Justification for the purpose of the intended stay. Insane... they had a support affidavit from a family member stating accompanying said family member to the worlds biggest media exposition - MIPCOM.... Perhaps they didn't read it or lost it! Just sent it back translated in French. LOL
2. No adequate travel insurance

The first one is incompetent/lost paperwork.... the second one is just wrong. Have you got a clear link that says only on Visa approval.

This is what the affidavit says;

"I vouch that Ms. xxxx" will travel covered by a comprehensive travel insurance package that fully complies with the Visa application terms. The insurance package will be purchased simultaneously with airline bookings once the outcome of this visa application is known.

I have gone through all the EU documentation for at least 4 hours - and am even more angry than when I started LOL

Thanks for all the help over the years. If anyone needs templates for complaint letters PM. I owe some back.

[Donutz]

Sounds like they processed it as a regular visa... since there is no need for insurance, tickets, hotelbooking, showing that you will return etc.

The directive makes it very clear what is required (show family relation to EU/EEA citizen, ID both, something that shows you as non EU national will travel with or join the EU national in an EU/EEA state of which this person is not a natonal). The visa handbook explains this further. See http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm --> Operational instructions for the application of the Visa Code are further specified in the Handbook for the processing of visa applications and the modification of issued visas pdf - 614 KB ( http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/docs/20140709_visa_code_handbook_consolidated_en.pdf )


6.3.1.
Who is exempt from presenting proof
of travel medical insurance?
Holders of diplomatic passports do not have to
present proof of travel
medical insurance.
Family members of EU and Swiss citizens are
exempted from the requirement to produce
travel medical insurance. This exemption is in
line with the exemption of this category of
persons from filling in field no. 33 of the application form

In section 3 it provides more details on EU/EEA applications.
Be sure to ask the money back and contact Solvit aswell!

[Donutz]

On EU/EEA applications under freedom of movement: see page 82: PART III:SPECIFIC RULES RELATINGTO APPLICANTS WHO ARE FAMILYMEMBERS OF EU CITIZENSOR SWISS CITIZENS

A few pages onward is a summary that further explains the direcitve and application form:


(....)

3.
SPECIFIC DEROGATIONS FROM THE GENERAL RULES OF THE VISA CODE

This point provides for operational instructions concerning the specific derogations from the general rules of the Visa Code that are to be applied when it has
been ascertained that the visa applicant falls under the Directive and that there is no exemption from the visa requirement.

3.1.
Visa Fee
No visa fee can be charged.

3.2.
Service fee in case of outsourcing
of the collection of applications As family members should not pay any fee when submitting the application, they cannot be
obliged to obtain an appointment via a premium call line or via an external provider whose services are charged to the applicant. Fam
ily members must be allowed to lodge their application directly at the consulate without any costs. However, if family members decide
not to make use of their right to lodge their application directly at the consulate but to use the extra services, they should pay for these services.
If an appointment system is nevert heless in place, separate call lines (at ordinary local tariff) to the consulate should be put at the dispos
al of family members respecting comparable standards to those of "premium lines", i.e. the availability of such lines should be of standards
comparable to those in place for other categories of applicants and an appointment must be allocated without delay.

3.3.
Granting every facility
Member States shall grant third country family members of EU citizens falling under the Directive every facility to obtain the necessary visa. This notion must be interpreted as ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the right of free move ment and afford to such visa applicants the
best conditions to obtain the entry visa.

3.4.
Processing time
The visas must be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure and the procedures put in place by Member States
(with or without outsourcing) must allow to distinguish between the rights of a third country national who is a family member of an EU
citizen and other third country nationals. The former must be treated more favourably than the latter. Processing times for a visa application lodged
by a third-country national who is a family member of an EU citizen covered by the Directive going beyond 15 days should be exceptional and duly justified.

3.5.
Types of visa issued
Article 5(2) of the Directive provides that third-country nationals who are family members of EU citizens may only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC)
No 539/2001.

3.6.
Supporting documents
In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the Directive, he must establish that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by
presenting documents relevant for the purposes of the three questions referred to above, i.e. proving that:
• there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;
• the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate,proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships ...) and his identity (passport); and
• the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU citizen will travel to
the host Member State).

It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are
covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...) . Member States may, however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the
existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof. For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication COM (2009) 313 final
22
.
3.7.
Burden of proof
The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is twofold:
Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present
evidence to support his claim. If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive.

Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling), which is reflected in
the exemption for family members of EU citizens from filling in the following fields of the visa application form:
Field 19: "current occupation";
Field 20 :"employer and employer's address and telephone number. For students, name and address of educational establishment";
Field 31: "surname and first name of the inviting person(s) in the Member State(s). If not applicable, name of hotel(s) or temporary a
ccommodation(s) in the Member State(s);
Field 32: "Name and address of inviting company/organisation";
Field 33: "Cost of travelling and living during the applicant's stay".

A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the
authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

3.8.
Refusal to issue a visa
A family member may be refused a visa exclusively on the following grounds:
• the visa applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive on the basis of the visa application and attached supporting documents under point 3.6
(i.e. it is clear that the reply to at least one of the three questions referred to above is negative);
• the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health; or
• the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.

In the latter two cases, the burden of proof lies with the national authorities as they must be able to present evidence to support their claim that the visa applicant
(who has presented sufficient evidence to attest that he/she meets the criteria in the Directive) should not be issued with an entry visa on grounds of public
policy, public security or public health or on grounds of abuse or fraud. The authorities must be able to build a convincing case while respecting all the safeguards of
the Directive which must be correctly and fully transposed in national law. The decision refusing the visa application on grounds of public policy, public security or public health or
on grounds of abuse or fraud must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by listing all legal and material aspect taken into account when concluding that the
marriage is a marriage of convenience or that the presented birth certificate is fake) and must specify where and when the appeal can be lodged.

The refusal to issue an entry visa under the conditions of the Directive must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by referring to the missing evidence), and sp
ecify where and when an appeal can be lodged.
A visa may not be refused on the sole ground that the applicant is a person for whom an alert has been entered into the SIS for the purpose of refusing entry into the territory of the
Member States. . Before refusing to issue a visa where there is an alert in the SIS, in any event it must be verified whether the person concerned represents a genuine, present
and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, and public security. For further information, see Commission Communication COM (2009) 313 final 24
.
3.9.
Notification and motivation of a refusal
Article 30 of the Directive provides that family members must be notified in writing of the refusal. Irrespective of the mandatory notification and motivation of refusals as provided by
the Visa Code (applicable from 5 April 2011) , refusal to issue a visa to a family member of an EU citizen must always be fully reasoned and list all the specific f
actual and legal grounds on which the negative decision was taken, so that the person concerned may take effective steps to ensure his defence
.
The refusal must also specify the court or administrative authority with which the person concerned may lodge an appeal and the time limit for the appeal. Forms may be used to notify a negative decision but the motivation given must always allow for a full justification of the grounds of which the decision was taken, and therefore indication of one or more of several options by only ticking the boxes in the standard form set out in Annex VI to the Visa Code is not sufficient in the case of refusal to issue a visa to a family member of an EU citizen.



So if she hasn't done so: appeal, complain with the embassy (and EU Home Affairs, the ministry the embassy fals under and possibly also the EU representation in the Philipines), ask the money back, the visa was refused on incorrect grounds. etc. The handbook and early provided links should give all the hints and pointers required. Too bad some embassies (Schengen but British too) are doing :censored: poor jobs when it comes to applying EU agreements, treaties, directives etc. correctly.