Question on Scottish Independence

[tiger31]

As from what I understand, it takes 5 years for a foreigner to become a British Citizen, and the voting rule for the YES/NO vote is that you must have lived in Scotland for at least 2 years to vote.

So does that mean non British Citizens could be voting on Scotland,s future, and people like myself who were born and bred there - with family connections going back 200 years or so - have no voting rights whatsoever?

[Dedworth]

Yes it defies belief but hundreds of thousands from the Warsaw Pact will be voting in this referendum

[Abigail]

The following was taken from the Yes campaigns website.

The following groups of people can register to vote in the referendum:

•British citizens resident in Scotland.

•Qualifying Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland. This means Commonwealth citizens who either have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave, and are resident in Scotland.

•Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.

•Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.

•Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the Armed Forces or with Her Majesty’s Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

As you can see from the above, no non-British citizen has a right to vote but it does mean those newly granted citizenship would be allowed.

[Abigail]

Sorry my statement, "no non British citizen" was not accurate. What I meant was, no one just here on a visa will be given permission to vote despite how long they have lived here

[Arthur Little]

Effectively ... ANYONE who's 16 years of age or older and has been domiciled in Scotland for two years or more will be entitled to vote - regardless of whether they're native-born or naturalised British Citizens. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Conversely, this privilege is NOT extended to those who - on the date of the Referendum - are living either abroad, or even in England, Wales or Northern Ireland ... :anerikke: ... irrespective of the fact that Scotland happened to be their birthplace.

I hope the foregoing statement makes sense. :smile:

[tiger31]

Effectively ... ANYONE who's 16 years of age or older and has been domiciled in Scotland for two years or more will be entitled to vote - regardless of whether they're native-born or naturalised British Citizens. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Conversely, this privilege is NOT extended to those who - on the date of the Referendum - are living either abroad, or even in England, Wales or Northern Ireland ... :anerikke: ... irrespective of the fact that Scotland happened to be their birthplace.

I hope the foregoing statement makes sense. :smile:

In my opinion, the whole system is flawed allowing someone who was not born in Scotland and no family connections over someone like myself. A third of my home town were born in Scotland yet cannot vote, but if you are Polish etc living there for 2 years or more that,s ok. It,s outraegous.

[Dedworth]

in my opinion the whole system is flawed allowing someone who was not born in scotland and no family connections over someone like myself .a third of my home town were born in scotland yet cannot vote but if your polish etc living there for 2 years or more thats ok its outragous.

Here's a voter who's lived on thieving and benefits in Bonnie Scotland for a couple of years :-

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280294-17A5DC3E000005DC-412_634x467.jpg

[Arthur Little]

In my opinion, the whole system is flawed allowing someone who was not born in Scotland and no family connections over someone like myself .a third of my home town were born in Scotland yet cannot vote but if you are Polish etc living there for 2 years or more that,s ok. It,s outrageous.

With all due respect, Brian ... I'd have to disagree. Surely someone who chooses to live in ANY country and fulfils the residential requirements - be they Polish, English or whatever - should, by right, have more of a say in the running of that country's affairs than a person who, in spite of being born there, opts to settle elsewhere. No offence intended. :smile:

[tiger31]

With all due respect, Brian ... I'd have to disagree. Surely someone who chooses to live in ANY country and fulfils the residential requirements - be they Polish, English or whatever - should, by right, have more of a say in the running of that country's affairs than a person who, in spite of being born there, opts to settle elsewhere. No offence intended. :smile:

Arthur I,m not settling in the Philippines I,m coming back as soon as my house is finished. I have a house in Corby, still pay Council Tax in Corby, etc. I have a brother who is a 'YES' voter. He was born in Corby, but now lives in Scotland. My father lives in Scotland and he is a 'NO' voter like myself. It has divided our family big time. I am angry about what this YES/NO vote is doing to families - something which is rarely talked about.

Another issue: How the hell can a 16 year old school kid possibly know the full implications of a break up of the Union? They will no doubt be brainwashed by their elders in making a decision.

[Arthur Little]

Arthur I,m not settling in the Philippines I,m coming back as soon as my house is finished. I have a house in Corby, still pay Council Tax in Corby, etc.

I have a brother who is a 'YES' voter. He was born in Corby, but now lives in Scotland. My father lives in Scotland and he is a 'NO' voter like myself.

:smile: Yes, you've previously mentioned you're coming back to the UK once work on your house in the Philippines is finished. But the fact remains ... you're returning to Corby, Lincs - part of England - so therein lies the crunch :biggrin: ... rendering you ineligible to cast a vote in the Scottish Referendum ... galling though it is, in the light of your roots North of the Border.

Whereas your brother - despite his origins - now lives up here and, because he meets the residential qualifications, is thus entitled to cast a vote on September 18. Likewise your father ... by virtue of both his heritage and current abode.


It has divided our family big time. I am angry about what this YES/NO vote is doing to families - something which is rarely talked about.

Granted it must irk :cwm23:! Nevertheless, it ain't gonna change the the rules of the game ... the Constitution, if you like. :NoNo:


Another issue: How the hell can a 16 year old school kid possibly know the full implications of a break up of the Union? They will no doubt be brainwashed by their elders in making a decision.

Agreed! :yeahthat:'s just another sly tactic of Salmond's, :Kilt: ... based on precisely the premise you've accurately described. :crazy:

[Dedworth]

Slippery Salmond & co are now pleading for the Eurotrash vote

The campaign for independence has launched an appeal for EU migrants in Scotland to back a Yes vote.

Yes Scotland hopes to win over the country's 160,000 European nationals with the message that staying in the UK poses a threat to Scotland's EU membership.

David Cameron has promised an in-out referendum on Europe if he remains Prime Minister after 2015.

The pro-independence groups Polish For Yes, Italians For Yes, French For Yes and EU Citizens For An Independent Scotland argue that could put their Scottish residency at risk.

Addressing a meeting of Polish For Yes, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon urged migrants to make their voices heard in next month's independence referendum.

She said: "With the Westminster parties dancing to Ukip's anti-European tune, Scotland faces the very real prospect of being ripped out of the EU against our will in the event of a No vote.

"With independence we will finally be able to take our place around the European top table, building on our positive relationships with our European partners and ensuring we get the best possible deal for Scotland."

Tomek Borkowy, a Polish actor now living in Scotland, said: "Westminster is treating Polish nationals as freeloaders and scroungers who are coming to the UK to receive benefits. But Poles are hard-working and valued employees.

"The Scottish Government, on the other hand, values the contribution we make to Scottish society. The difference between the two is night and day. "A No vote is a real threat to our future in Europe."

A Better Together spokesperson said: "The facts are clear. If Scotland votes to leave the UK,we would have to reapply to join the EU. This would be a very long and complex process, putting at risk the special EU deals we enjoy today as part of the UK.

"We know we would lose our UK rebate, worth £135 for each family in Scotland, and the VAT exemption on kids clothes. Our opt-outs on the Euro and the no borders immigration scheme would also be at risk. That's a risk we simply don't have to take.

"Alex Salmond is the man who told us he had legal advice on the EU and a separate Scotland. It turns out that wasn't true and he spent thousands of pounds of public money trying to cover that up. Nobody trusts a word he has to say on this issue. We should say no thanks to independence on 18 September."

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/289417-yes-vote-best-way-for-eu-migrants-to-secure-future-says-campaign/

[raynaputi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKN55xGOLE8

[les_taxi]

With all due respect, Brian ... I'd have to disagree. Surely someone who chooses to live in ANY country and fulfils the residential requirements - be they Polish, English or whatever - should, by right, have more of a say in the running of that country's affairs than a person who, in spite of being born there, opts to settle elsewhere. No offence intended. :smile:

Totally with Tiger on this one sorry Arthur, Tiger is Scottish and he cannot decide the future of his own country - that's wrong. A Polish or whatever nationality who has only lived there a short time and may leave anyway has the vote. Some of the people who will be voting may not even be able to speak the language!

[Arthur Little]

Totally with Tiger on this one sorry Arthur, Tiger is Scottish and he cannot decide the future of his own country - that's wrong.

Maybe it would seem so ... :anerikke: ... but it's a moot point ... because Brian (Tiger) chose to live abroad long term - as opposed to bringing his g/f to the UK - which, in the opinion of the Scottish Government, as well as in mine, disqualifies him.

Rules are rules! :wink:

[les_taxi]

It's his home country and he may return :smile:

[Arthur Little]

It's his home country and he may return :smile:

Granted Les. But then, you know as well as I do, there are literally hundreds of thousands of ex-pat Scots living in virtually ALL corners of the world.

Just think of the time and expense involved in sending a ballot paper to each and every one of them :icon_rolleyes: ... always assuming they were even traceable.

[les_taxi]

It would have been up to the Scot in question to apply to vote - not have to be chased. Just seems so wrong to me that you are an obvious National Scot, maybe with family going back hundreds of years, yet a pic of someone like Dedworth posted out votes you :yikes:

Here's one for you then - say if Scotland went independent and in years to come the Muslim population outnumbered everyone else and they voted for Sharia law then that would be accepted too :yikes:

[Arthur Little]

It would have been up to the Scot in question to apply to vote - not have to be chased. Just seems so wrong to me that you are an obvious National Scot, maybe with family going back hundreds of years, yet a pic of someone like Dedworth posted out votes you :yikes:

Les ... forget the photo posted by Ded. Irrespective of whether or not the guy pictured lives in a cardboard box, that person is entitled to vote if his name appears on the Scottish Electoral Registration & Valuation Roll. End of!

Of course ... :anerikke: ... even though I'm sure Doc Alan, for instance, is no less a proud Scot than Tiger ... he too is precluded from taking part in the Referendum because of the clear and unmitigated fact he's also no longer living here.



Here's one for you then - say if Scotland went independent and in years to come the Muslim population outnumbered everyone else and they voted for Sharia law then that would be accepted too :yikes:

Pure supposition ... based on a hypothetical question. Regardless of the outcome of this campaign, NO modern Western~elected Government would ever even consider tolerating such barbaric, Stone Age practices. :NoNo:

[les_taxi]

Les ... forget the photo posted by Ded. Irrespective of whether or not the guy pictured lives in a cardboard box, that person is entitled to vote if his name appears on the Scottish Electoral Registration & Valuation Roll. End of!

I can't forget after seeing that picture :icon_lol:

[tiger31]

The only reason I should be prevented from voting is if I was to give up my UK passport. As I have already stated Arthur, I have not chosen to live in the Philippines long term. My case is more complicated because Dora is still married or I would have returned to the UK long ago. Someone who was born in Pakistan or Timbuktu - with no family history to the country where they have just recently landed - should not be given more rights to vote over someone like myself. I hope Salmond gets stuffed at the polls that,s for sure.

[Dedworth]

I can't forget after seeing that picture :icon_lol:

Lastlid's next door neighbour :biggrin:

[les_taxi]

I would have returned to the UK long ago. Someone who was born in Pakistan or Timbuktu - with no family history to the country where they have just recently - landed should not be given more rights to vote over someone like myself. I hope Salmond gets stuffed at the polls that,s for sure.

Hear,Hear - as for Salmond, he is a despicable self glorifying piece of excrement who will definitely lose the vote. Bet he won't step down tho, another me, me, me person.

[bigmarco]

It's beginning to look as though it's going to be a close vote.

It has to be right that the only people who determine Scotland's future are the ones who live there and qualify to vote.

I hope they decide to remain as part of the union but I do have sympathy and understand the people who argue that more often than not Scotland is governed by a Government that it never elected.

The cynic in me also says that any issue that has the leaders of the 3 main parties standing on the same platform is something that the people need to think very carefully about.

[Arthur Little]

It's beginning to look as though it's going to be a close vote.

:iagree: ... it sure does ... doesn't it.


It has to be right that the only people who determine Scotland's future are the ones who live there and qualify to vote.

That has been the basis of my reasoning all along ... yet there are some folk who still don't - or won't - see that. :NoNo:


(1) I hope they decide to remain as part of the union but I do have sympathy and understand the people who argue that (2) more often than not Scotland is governed by a Government that it never elected.

The cynic in me also says that any issue that has the leaders of the 3 main parties standing on the same platform is (3) something that the people need to think very carefully about.

So too, do I :pray: ... relating to each of those three counts.

[les_taxi]

That has been the basis of my reasoning all along ... yet there are some folk who still don't - or won't - see that

Nope definitely not :biggrin:

To me, if your were born in that country along with various generations then it's your country. You should have a say - especially if you may return there one day.

[Dedworth]

Nope definitely not :biggrin:

To me, if your were born in that country along with various generations then it's your country. You should have a say - especially if you may return there one day.

Not some Economic Migrant from the Warsaw Pact "working" as a "Barista" at Megabucks