Tonight's Scottish debate

[les_taxi]

Watched it - no clear winner on the night for me apart from the fact Salmond is an anti English .....

[Arthur Little]

Watched it as well. :smile:

Felt a bit sorry for Alistair Darling, who - in spite of being a Labour politician - spoke sensibly and seemed to have the best interests of Scotland at heart ... :anerikke: ... whenever he was able to get a word in edgeways, without being constantly interrupted by Smarmy Salmond :Kilt: who, true to form, gave his usual impression of knowing all the answers :Erm: - except, that is, the ones the voters actually needed to hear! :doh

No surprises, therefore, that the 'BIG Debate' grabbed the headlines on the BBC's News at Ten ... when Holyrood Political Commentator, Brian Taylor remarked that Alec Salmond would be the "happier :Hellooo: of the two of them going home tonight."

[joebloggs]

Felt a bit sorry for Alastair Darling, who - in spite of being a Labour politician - spoke sensibly

In spite :NoNo:, I wonder why he is representing the stay in party. Maybe because there are no Tory MPs in Scotland :biggrin:

[Arthur Little]

In spite :NoNo:, I wonder why he is representing the stay in party. Maybe because there are no Tory MPs in Scotland :biggrin:

Probably because of his role as the last - or perhaps I ought to say, most recent - Scottish politician to have held the crucial incumbency of Chancellor of the Exchequer and thus deemed best-qualified to deal with questions relating to the backlash Independence is bound to have on Scotland's economic future ... plus, I should imagine he's judged by many of those (from ALL parties) leading the "NO" Campaign, to be a better orator than his long-serving, immediate predecessor and fellow Scot, Gordon Brown. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[les_taxi]

Loved the way Salmond purposely used the 'I will step in front of my platform technique' to try to appear more sincere.

Saw through that straight away. I'm not anti-Scottish and have friends up there, but if they decide to leave the UK then I hope we screw them on the pound exchange rate.

Oh another thing banging on about how he would remove 'Weapons of mass destruction' cynical .... using that as an argument.

[Doc Alan]

I expect to meet Alistair Darling tonight at a Memorial Service in Glasgow University for Sam Galbraith

( http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/53483-R-I-P-Sam-Galbraith?highlight=sam+galbraith ).


It’s a celebration of Sam’s life, and not my place as an expat Scot to voice strong opinions … but if I could vote, it would be “ No “ to independence for Scotland :xxgrinning--00xx3: !

[Dedworth]

Well said Doc - hope the service goes well

[Arthur Little]

I expect to meet Alistair Darling tonight at a Memorial Service in Glasgow University for Sam Galbraith (

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/53483-R-I-P-Sam-Galbraith?highlight=sam+galbraith ).


It’s a celebration of Sam’s life, and not my place as an expat Scot to voice strong opinions … but if I could vote, it would be “ No “ to independence for Scotland :xxgrinning--00xx3: !

Here's me imagining that was you up there on the platform, Alan! :icon_lol:

Seriously ... it's good to read you're travelling up to Glasgow to join forces with your lookalike at the memorial service for your erstwhile university alumini and noted neurosurgeon-turned politician ... as I thought you might. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[grahamw48]

So, if it's a 'yes', presumably all the Scots presently resident in England will be booted out until they have received a 'visitor visa'...including those in Parliament ? :Erm:

[Abigail]

I don't think either party did at all well last night. As someone who is still to decide I don't feel the debate did me any good at all. I am not a fan of Salmond at all but I did think he did slightly better last night and was a little more prepared. Having said that neither of them actually gave very many useful answers. I obviously have to take immigration seriously as independence could have a massive impact on Hubbies visa but so far no one seems to have mentioned it so I have no idea what will happen. At the moment I can see benefits to both sides but nothing that was said last night has pushed me one way or the other so I still don't know what to do :doh

[les_taxi]

Maybe the saying 'Better the devil you know' comes into play :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Maybe the saying 'Better the devil you know' comes into play :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Hmm ... :icon_rolleyes: talking of the :devil: ... Salmond's bushy black eyebrows do rather resemble those of "Auld Nick" :smileybigangry: himself. What's only needed now, are the horns :18: in order to complete the image! :biggrin:

[London_Manila]

I am not anti-Scottish but I do find Salmond a detestable person.
All that stupid flag waving at Wimbledon after Andy Murray won did it for me

He looked like a complete idiot and a gurning clown

[joebloggs]

All that stupid flag waving at Wimbledon after Andy Murray won did it for me.

He looked like a complete idiot and a gurning clown.

Even Murray was :censored: with him, saying he had played for GB since he was a kid :doh

[tiger31]

I think Darling fluffed it to be honest. He did well last time but I,m afraid he allowed Slimy Salmond to gain lost ground.

I am still confident the ordinary man in the street will see through him.

[Abigail]

I think even "YES" voters are not particularly fond of Salmond. I really feel the debates are a waste of time as they are not real debates :NoNo:, they are between two big kids shouting over each other, neither one making any good, clear points.

[Dedworth]

Oh another thing banging on about how he would remove 'Weapons of mass destruction' - cynical .... using that as an argument.


The people working in the defence industry, at MoD sites or serving in the forces won't be happy with that.

[Michael Parnham]

Hope it's a no vote, but have my doubts! :Erm:

[Arthur Little]

Hope it's a no vote, but have my doubts!:Erm:

It will be a "NO" vote, Michael ... I'm fairly confident of it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[tiger31]

It will be a "NO" vote, Michael ... I'm fairly confident of it! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

And hopefully Salmond will step down and shrivel away somewhere. :biggrin:

[Arthur Little]

And hopefully Salmond will step down and shrivel away somewhere. :biggrin:

Hmm ... my guess IS, he'll just slither away :Bolt: (quietly for once!) to some Spanish tax haven - in the same manner as plenty other so~called "proud Scots" ... e.g., ('Sir') Sean Connery did before him. :wink:

[Iani]

It's up to the Scots really, not over bothered either way.

Thing is, it has to be said, just WHY break up one of the most successful unions in history?

Let's go back to the time of union. Politicians can bleat all they want, the fact is the Scots agreed because they were bankrupt, and the English agreed because they realised it would mean a secure defensible border.

That's ancient history though. Don't forget mind, countries all over Europe were forming by basic conquest. In this case England happened to be stronger, if Scotland had been stronger they would have done the same..........in other words, " :censored: happens"

Have to say I find it slightly nuts when some Scots whinge about Edward I. It's 800 sodding years ago, but anyway.

There can only be two logical reasons to split the union:

Reason one - Scots would be better off. Well I haven't studied this, but with an economic background, at best they would be marginally better off - nowhere near as much as Salmond would like to say. What he overlooks is that independent countries have a lot of hidden costs, such as Defence, Maintaning Embassies..........and really has nobody thought what an attractive target to terrorists a poorly defended oil platform would be? Just think about it.

Reason two - the "We Hate the English" brigade. Would like to think most Scots are above this imbecilic behaviour, but who knows?

What doesn't seem to have reached the rest of the UK, is that Scotland breaking away would have a huge impact on the rest.
There would be a large international border to the North, and coupled with Salmond's policy of mass immigration, this would be a huge headache. It doesn't take a genius to realise many will spend a few days in Glasgow, think sod this and head for London.

Then there is the UK's standing in the rest of the world. The UK punches well above it's weight. Gone will be the Security Council seat, possibly the membership of the G7 etc etc etc

Something else - and possibly the real reason the Tories are so against the breakup of the union, when so many people keep saying how much easier it would be for them to rule. Without Scotland, the UK would be an economic minnow. Frankly the UK would find it very difficult to exist outside the EU. Currently as the full union, the UK has a lot of leverage and would be a world economic power in itself.

A yes vote - we'd better get allied closer to Europe

[Iani]

Oh, thought this deserved it's own separate post. Should Scotland become independent, then what will happen to their British passports?
Scots certainly wouldn't be British anymore. Since they would likely be out of the EU too, there's a good chance they'd need visas to visit Magaluf.

Salmond's a plank!

[les_taxi]

It will be a "NO" vote, Michael ... I'm fairly confident of it!

Me too - the canny Scots are worried about being worse off and they won't take that gamble :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

Oh, thought this deserved it's own separate post. Should Scotland become independent, then what will happen to their British passports?

According to Salmond ... NOTHING :nono-1-1: ... our British Passports wouldn't be affected!


Scots certainly wouldn't be British any more.

Why on earth not? :Erm: ... geographically we'd still be a part of the British Isles unless - like Eire - we choose to dispense with the 411 yo, much~revered British Monarchy (God forbid!) and finish up a Presidential Republic.


Salmond's a plank!

Now there ... :iagree:!

[Terpe]

It's already been agreed that regardless of a Yes or No outcome there'll be wide changing changes/additions to devolution under The Scotland Act 1998

Personally I've no idea what that means.....maybe some others do ?

[Abigail]

Basically they are saying that even if its a NO vote Scotland will be given more control over itself. However they have not said exactly what powers we would be given yet

[les_taxi]

Hardly anything I reckon it's just a sweetner

[Abigail]

Nobody actually believes anything will change if it is a No

[Dedworth]

I didn't watch it but it seems unsurprisingly the BBC allowed a rabble audience to fix it

Row over Scotland debate 'rent-a-mob': BBC accused of bias after viewers complained independence supporters were allowed to challenge Alistair Darling

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735235/Row-Scotland-debate-rent-mob-BBC-accused-bias-viewers-complained-independence-supporters-allowed-challenge-Alistair-Darling.html#ixzz3Bh3YTpMe

[les_taxi]

Yes, I watched it and thought it was biased

[Abigail]

I was just reading an article on the changes that might take place after the vote if it is a No.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28897427

[Dedworth]

If there is a 'NO' vote regardless if any more powers are given to the Scottish parliament there needs to be a review of the flows of English taxpayers money North of the Border that prop up all the massive Scottish public spending free university places, prescriptions, elderly care etc

[andy222]

Scotland might be better on its own. The only reason the English want it to stay, is the oil.

Oh, and there wouldn't be anywhere to put those Trident missiles.

[Dedworth]

Scotland might be better on its own. The only reason the English want it to stay is the oil.

Oh, and there wouldn't be anywhere to put those Trident missiles.

1) Oil's been in decline for a long while as I told you recently :-

By the way North Sea oil has been in decline for years 1999 it peaked at 398 million barrels and declined to 220 million barrels in 2007, what were Labour doing in that time to encourage investment and exploration ?

2) With a bit of investment on infrastructure for subs carrying our important nuclear deterrent could be relocated to Plymouth

[les_taxi]

Scotland might be better on its own. The only reason the English want it to stay is the oil.

Oh, and there wouldn't be anywhere to put those Trident missiles.

I have a good few friends up there and one or two like the old idea of independence - nothing like a bit of nationalism! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

They know they will be worse off.

The Norwegians squirrelled their money away for a rainy day. Can't see a 10 pints a day Glaswegian investing in his future. :icon_lol:

So you are left with a tiny population of just over 5 million carrying all the debts and risk - :crazy:.

What happens to the Black Watch etc? If Scotland is going to have its own army etc., they will have to rely on the UK to help them out if they are involved in any conflict. It would be like Dad's Army.

Like I said, they are not daft and they will consider the money side more that most people would.

It really riled me to hear that nasty piece "I'm in it to be a hero" Salmond keep banging on about weapons of mass destruction which are part of the modern world.

It would be great if no one had them but they are a big deterrent for war.

It's like the Russian situation - they want to take over Ukraine - we can sanction all we want but they have a huge army and nuclear weapons, so we're never going to take them on - no matter what.

I want the Scots to stay, but if they go - and I will happily have a bet they won't (any takers?) - then bugger them.

[andy222]

1) Oil's been in decline for a long while as I told you recently :-

By the way North Sea oil has been in decline for years 1999 it peaked at 398 million barrels and declined to 220 million barrels in 2007, what were Labour doing in that time to encourage investment and exploration ?

2) With a bit of investment on infrastructure for subs carrying our important nuclear deterrent could be relocated to Plymouth

What country will Cameron get to invest in the move to Plymouth then Ded? :biggrin: In my opinion, you believe the scaremongerers - which is typical. Scotland can go it alone they have enough oil and they will invest the money in jobs unlike the Tories. :wink:. I get the impression that the Scots have had enough of being dictated to by English Governments.

[SimonH]

What country will Cameron get to invest in the move to Plymouth then Ded? :biggrin: In my opinion, you believe the scaremongerers - which is typical. Scotland can go it alone, they have enough oil and they will invest the money in jobs - unlike the Tories. :wink:. I get the impression that the Scots have had enough of being dictated to by English Governments.


:Jump::Jump::Jump: Andy's off to Scotland if they win independence :icon_lol:

[andy222]

No Simon, saving for my retirement in the Phils. :wink:

[Abigail]

I think less Scots would be considering independence if the way of life up here was considered more when the government are making their decisions. For example all immigration law at the moment is based on the trends around London and the South of England. Having the oil industry and such a huge marine industry up here makes our immigration completely different. The rules at the moment have in the past prevented me from bringing in Filipino seafarers to join a UK flagged vessel. They are complaining that the UK flag and UK ports are dying but they are the ones pushing us away if we cannot bring in our seamen.

Also if anybody has a problem here in Scotland and we go to an MSP for assistance they cannot help because parliament wont accept questions from anything other then MP's, its ridiculous!

[Doc Alan]

Here's me imagining that was you up there on the platform, Alan!

Seriously ... it's good to read you're travelling up to Glasgow to join forces with your lookalike at the memorial service for your erstwhile university alumni and noted neurosurgeon-turned politician ... as I thought you might.

Thank you Arthur :smile:.


I may be Alistair Darling’s lookalike, but I would not wish to swap places, or stand in at events for him, and told him so :NoNo: ! The Memorial Service for Sam Galbraith was no doubt the least stressful evening in recent times for Mr Darling :smile: ! At least through his friendship and close association with Sam over the years he is well informed on health issues.


One of us at Glasgow University :-


http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj517/DocAlan/P1000535_zpsf2c15508.jpg (http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/DocAlan/media/P1000535_zpsf2c15508.jpg.html)



With little over 2 weeks to go, the outcome of the Referendum is hard to predict. Like other expat Scots I can’t vote, but took the chance during last week’s Scottish visit to speak to a wide spectrum of people. I would still vote for retaining the Union, but the issues are complex. I don’t intend to enter into political arguments on this Forum :NoNo:.


Sam ( past student and junior doctor with me ; then neurosurgeon ; then politician and Scottish Health Minister ) was devoted to caring for others through the NHS, and was in favour of devolved administration including health – but not independence.



Scotland appears to have the most health care workers ; most hospital beds ; and highest spending per head of population ; but the worst health, compared to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.



The NHS changed little in organization and policy from 1948 to the early 1980s, with only one major reorganisation. Since then there have been many reorganisations ( under Labour and Conservative governments ), including devolution in the late 1990s. There has been less consultation with doctors, nurses, and other health care workers as time went on. England’s " Health and Social Care Act of 2012 " includes encouraging greater involvement by the private sector. Inevitably this sector has profit margin as a priority. It " cherry picks " lucrative work – knowing the NHS is available if / when things go wrong, and in any case for acutely ill patients. The worry is that more services will be contracted to the market place.


The 2012 Act abolished the duty on the Secretary of State for Health to " secure and provide comprehensive healthcare " . This paves the way for private funding ! At worst people might have two choices :- go without healthcare or pay privately ( out of pocket / through insurance ). Reminiscent of the Philippines :doh ?


Scottish health unions claim to remain neutral in the Referendum. The BMA thinks the Scottish model of the NHS is the closest to their own policy – publicly provided and publicly delivered. Already the proportion of the NHS budget spent on private providers is at least 6% of the total in England – arguably only 1% in Scotland. Ideally devolution will protect the Scottish NHS from creeping privatisation south of the border – without full independence :smile:.


Sam got his lung transplant in Newcastle – the best possible centre – and survived 25 years without the additional worry of expense.

The NHS is not without fault, but it’s a national treasure, the envy of many countries. It should ALWAYS be there for every UK citizen who needs it, funded from taxation, and free at the point of use - whether GP surgery, local hospital, or centre of excellence anywhere in the UK. It should stay that way regardless of the Referendum outcome, and the best chance of it so doing would be for retention of the Union :xxgrinning--00xx3:.

[Michael Parnham]

Excellent Alan, some very interesting reading. Also a very nice photo! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Abigail]

Just wanted to say thanks Doc Alan for the rep, not entirely sure what it means but guessing it is a good thing :smile:

[les_taxi]

Just wanted to say thanks Doc Alan for the rep, not entirely sure what it means but guessing it is a good thing :smile:

It means he thinks you contributed well to the Forum and giving rep is a reward for posting good stuff. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Abigail]

Thanks for explaining Les :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[les_taxi]

Anything that Joe,Andy or Keith post, you have to give negative rep for as a newcomer - it's traditional :icon_lol:

[raynaputi]

Anything that Joe, Andy or Keith post, you have to give negative rep for as a newcomer - it's traditional :icon_lol:


Any neg rep to the owners (Keith) and Mods will be banned! :xxgrinning--00xx3::biggrin:

[Abigail]

Haha, sorry to disappoint but I am not so naïve! You shall have to wage your own war on them :biggrin:

Besides I haven't figured out how to give anything to anyone on here yet!

[les_taxi]

Haha, sorry to disappoint but I am not so naïve! You shall have to wage your own war on them :biggrin:

Besides I haven't figured out how to give anything to anyone on here yet!

Gutted! :icon_lol: Never have any fun these days :bigcry:

The little star at the bottom of the page is for giving rep.

[Michael Parnham]

:Jump::Jump::Jump: Andy's off to Scotland if they win independence :icon_lol:

Thank God! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[les_taxi]

Thank God! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

I will do the Taxi for free :biggrin:

[Michael Parnham]

I will do the Taxi for free:biggrin:

And I'll buy the fuel Les! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Dedworth]

Excellent Alan, some very interesting reading. Also a very nice photo! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Seconded - a good pic of Alistair Darling leaning on the railing :biggrin:

[les_taxi]

Seconded - a good pic of Alistair Darling leaning on the railing :biggrin:

Good pic but Alan reminds me of this man :biggrin:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/lestaxi1/Paul-O-Grady_280_474471a.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/lestaxi1/media/Paul-O-Grady_280_474471a.jpg.html)

[grahamw48]

:omg: :icon_lol:


... another guy who once lived in Manila.

[tiger31]

I am trying to understand his comment which he keeps repeating WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT WE DID,NT VOTE FOR. Well doesn,t everybody who votes for the losing party not get the government they voted for? WHAT A .....

[les_taxi]

He is a totally Nasty piece of work - I picked up someone who knew him and they said he is a right pillock.

Starting to get sick of hearing it non stop now.

[tiger31]

The worrying thing is that the polls have shown the gap close quite a bit. There are roughly 1 million who have not registered to vote ... mmmm

[Abigail]

At the moment the polls are showing 57% No and 43% Yes so it is a lot closer than a lot of people thought

[les_taxi]

My prediction has always been 55/45 'NO'

[tiger31]

all this nervousness is affecting the exchange rate the pesos is getting stronger against the pound I am now only getting 50,000 pesos for 700 quid instead of 52,500 2 months ago another reason to hate slimy salmond even more