One for Joe - European doctors three times more likely to be struck off

[Dedworth]

European doctors three times more likely to be struck off: GMC

Doctors who qualified from overseas are more likely to have a complaint made about them, or to be suspended or struck off, report says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11146680/European-doctors-three-times-more-likely-to-be-struck-off-GMC.html

almost as bad as

Indian doctors are FOUR times more likely to be struck off than those trained in Britain

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/52199-Indian-doctors-are-FOUR-times-more-likely-to-be-struck-off-than-those-trained-in-Britain?highlight=struck+off

As we know they may be filling jobs that UK medics don't want but it is a damning indictment

[joebloggs]

The reasons for this are not clear,

Why are the reasons unclear? :cwm25:, they've got to be having a :laugher: they don't know why! :icon_lol:

Maybe this is the reason: :wink:


Almost 30 per cent of European doctors whose case got to hearing were struck off compared to 10 per cent of British trained doctors.

Simple as that Dedworth, British doctors have been getting away with it, without getting struck off :NoNo:

I'll remind you of how GMC and RCGP was taken to court by BAPIO, thou they lost the case, and I don't know how they could lose when the judge orders GMC and RCGP to take action and he gave them the rare option of appealing his decision :crazy:

Maybe you should be looking into why only 10% of British doctors who had been taken to a hearing are being struck off :NoNo:


May I start by thanking you for your support to our legal challenge against RCGP and GMC.





You would have learned about the outcome of the challenge to seek fairness and equality. Though we did not succeed in the Judicial Review, the judge in his concluding remarks summed up by saying that the outcome of this case was “if not a legal victory then a moral success for BAPIO".



The Honourable Judge did not agree with our claim that the CSA is unlawful but agreed with our concern about the results of the examination. He acknowledged that ethnic minority medical graduates were put at a disadvantage by the current assessment. The Hon Judge noted: “Endless amount of research has been commissioned to date with no solutions or action points; it has taken a court case to effect action”. He further added that “RCGP should now take action, including by selecting more representative examiners and role-players for the assessment” and that "If it does not act and its failure to act is the subject of a further challenge in the future, it may well be that it will be held to have breached its duty".



We are naturally extremely disappointed with the verdict. However, our campaign team felt vindicated with the judge stating that “the claim had been brought in good faith and in the public interest”, expressing a hope that it would lead to progress. The Hon Judge said “The bringing of this claim is likely, in the end, to bring something of benefit to the medical profession.” Although we may have lost the battle at this time, we feel we have won the war because the judge has instructed RCGP to take action.

http://www.bapio.co.uk/contribute-towards-legal-challenge

[Dedworth]

Keep defending the indefensible Joe.

Here's another :-

Doctor struck off medical register after ignoring 'life or death' situation

http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/slough/articles/2014/10/02/104147-doctor-struck-off-medical-register-after-ignoring-life-or-death-situation/

Wexham Park has been an appalling hospital for years one of the worst in the country but in the last couple of weeks it has been taken over by the "outstanding" Frimley Park NHS Foundation Trust - I hope many P45s will shortly be issued starting with senior management and some of the consultants

[joebloggs]

Keep defending the indefensible Joe.



Dedworth, you're defending the indefensible. :doh Tell me why only 10% of British doctors who go to a hearing are struck off, yet 30% of European ones are struck off ???

Why is there a 20% difference ???? Surely whether they British, European or an IMG, the fact is that you don't get taken to a hearing for nothing. You would have thought there would be some concern as to why 90% of British doctors are not struck off :doh

[Dedworth]

Dedworth, you're defending the indefensible. :doh Tell me why only 10% of British doctors who go to a hearing are struck off, yet 30% of European ones are struck off ???

Why is there a 20% difference ???? Surely whether they British, European or an IMG, the fact is that you don't get taken to a hearing for nothing. You would have thought there would be some concern as to why 90% of British doctors are not struck off :doh

Unlike you I do not question the competency and impartiality of the hearings. Here is a prime example of a struck off Euro "Doctor"

Doctor who couldn't take a pulse is struck off medical register

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/doctor-who-couldnt-take-a-pulse-is-struck-off-medical-register-30610221.html

Defending the indefensible Joe :smile:

[joebloggs]

I don't even need to read it Dedworth. The GMC/RCGP have been told by a judge there are concerns about the CSA exam. I doubted the judge would rule in favour of Bapio, because if he found they had discriminated against foreign doctors imagine the millions in payouts to those who were discriminated against.

Basic stats Dedworth, why are only 10% of British doctors who go to a hearing struck off? Probably the same reason why only 10% of British doctors fail the CSA exam, while 60% of IMGS fail, yet the GMC and RCGP don't know why, the reason it's :censored:


Unlike you I do not question the competency and impartiality of the hearings. Here is a prime example of a struck off Euro "Doctor"


Funny, I'm sure you've exactly done that in the past, Dedworth :wink:

[joebloggs]

Some 10% ones to add, Dedworth. :wink: I'm sure you're not defending these. :cwm25:

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Police-look-claim-Plymouth-man-performing-surgery/story-23015124-detail/story.html

My point, Dedworth. What does it take to get a British doctor struck off ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247000/Dr-Jane-Barton-escapes-struck-prescribing-potentially-hazardous-levels-drugs.html#ixzz3D99eAqvj

[malolos]

A complaint to the General Medical Council will always be investigated.

[Dedworth]

A complaint to the General Medical Council will always be investigated.

I'm afraid Joe has a bizarre pre-conception that all the hearings, tribunals etc are biased against the foreign "Doctors". He will defend them to the Nth degree whilst casting suspicion on properly trained & qualified British medics - note his NO COMMENT on a Romanian "Doctor" who doesn't even know how to take a pulse :biggrin:

[joebloggs]

I'm afraid Joe has a bizarre pre-conception that all the hearings, tribunals etc are biased against the foreign "Doctors". He will defend them to the Nth degree whilst casting suspicion on properly trained & qualified British medics - note his NO COMMENT on a Romanian "Doctor" who doesn't even know how to take a pulse :biggrin:

I'm not defending any doctors dedworth, whether they be British, European or an img, they should all be treated the same, and from the stats they are not :NoNo:

dedworth did you read what i posted about the csa exam, do you understand or do i have to explain it to you :wink:

[Dedworth]

I'm not defending any doctors dedworth, whether they be British, European or an img, they should all be treated the same, and from the stats they are not :NoNo:

dedworth did you read what i posted about the csa exam, do you understand or do i have to explain it to you :wink:

The CSA exam is a red herring - the facts are that proportionately compared with UK medics the disciplinary hearings find more Euro and rest of world (mainly african, arab and indian sub continent) "Doctors" totally unfit to practice

[joebloggs]

The CSA exam is a red herring - the facts are that proportionately compared with UK medics the disciplinary hearings find more Euro and rest of world (mainly african, arab and indian sub continent) "Doctors" totally unfit to practice

what are you talking about red herring, its a fact that for no clear reason non British GP's are failing this test and the GMC\RCGP do not have a reason why ? , they probably don't have a reason why only 10% of British doctors are only struck off :NoNo:

no dedworth British doctors are getting away with not getting struck off , simple as


for an unbiased record look at the facts, look here dedworth and tell me what proportion are British doctors and nurses from the total number on the first page ??

http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/category/doctorsnurses/

[Dedworth]

what are you talking about red herring, its a fact that for no clear reason non British GP's are failing this test and the GMC\RCGP do not have a reason why ? , they probably don't have a reason why only 10% of British doctors are only struck off :NoNo:



re CSA

It is a red herring Joe because it has naff all to do with disciplinary procedures for Doctors already practicing in the UK

If you are born, brought up and educated in the UK you will find this CSA test easier to pass, if the same Brit goes to Pakistan and took their exam (if they even have one :icon_lol:) designed for GPs to practice there they would find it harder to pass.

[joebloggs]

re CSA

It is a red herring Joe because it has naff all to do with disciplinary procedures for Doctors already practicing in the UK

If you are born, brought up and educated in the UK you will find this CSA test easier to pass, if the same Brit goes to Pakistan and took their exam (if they even have one :icon_lol:) designed for GPs to practice there they would find it harder to pass.

as usual your wrong dedworth, if you had read what i had posted you would have a bit of a clue:cwm25:

the judge said that the gmc\rcgp had done nothing about the pass rate, and if it was brought b4 a court at appeal, it might be considered as a breach of duty by the gmc\rcgp if they don't do something.so its clear there is something wrong :doh

many people who failed it had done the exact training as British doctors, the fact is they cannot find a reason why shows its :censored: and they are discriminated against.

funny you have not mentioned anything about the link i posted , concerning British doctors and nurses who are child abusers , not many foreign names there :NoNo:

[Dedworth]

as usual your wrong dedworth, if you had read what i had posted you would have a bit of a clue:cwm25:

the judge said that the gmc\rcgp had done nothing about the pass rate, and if it was brought b4 a court at appeal, it might be considered as a breach of duty by the gmc\rcgp if they don't do something.so its clear there is something wrong :doh

many people who failed it had done the exact training as British doctors, the fact is they cannot find a reason why shows its :censored: and they are discriminated against.

funny you have not mentioned anything about the link i posted , concerning British doctors and nurses who are child abusers , not many foreign names there :NoNo:

Not commented on Joe as it is not covered by this thread which is about the high incidence of foreign doctors appearing before disciplinary panels

TBH they should make it harder for foreigners to pass this exam it would reduce the numbers of them up before the beaks

We need more to be done to train up British medics and have pay/conditions that makes them want to work for the NHS then we wouldn't have to rely on imports of which a fair few appear substandard

And by the way the occupation classification in your paedo exposed website is a bit light along with Drs & Nurses we have teachers, clergymen, social workers, scout masters, company directors, councillors, judges. Where are the muslim taxi drivers, takeaway owners, drug dealers, shopkeepers, imans ? I think we should be told :Erm:

[joebloggs]

Not commented on Joe as it is not covered by this thread which is about the high incidence of foreign doctors appearing before disciplinary panels

TBH they should make it harder for foreigners to pass this exam it would reduce the numbers of them up before the beaks

We need more to be done to train up British medics and have pay/conditions that makes them want to work for the NHS then we wouldn't have to rely on imports of which a fair few appear substandard

well its obvious dedworth these British doctors and nurses must have appeared before disciplinary panels and looking at the website there is a high incidence of British ones being there :doh

[Dedworth]

I rest my case

[Doc Alan]

I understand this thread was for Joe and have no intention of arguing with either of you - or commenting on anecdotal cases - on a non-medical forum :smile: !


The facts are these :-


• The vast majority of doctors don’t have complaints about them leading to concerns about fitness to practise. Often action can be taken at a local level to tackle issues of competence and behaviour.


• The GMC received about 8,600 complaints last year. Over 3,000 were serious and resulted in sanctions, warnings, suspension or erasure in 185 cases - by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service ( MPTS ).


• About 2/3 of the complaints came from the public, 1/8 from other doctors, and the rest from employers or other sources.


• The commonest serious allegations are about health ( substance abuse, mental and behavioural issues ) and criminality.


• Inevitably, some groups of doctors are more likely to be complained about, or receive sanctions and warnings. We know these are over the age of 50 ; male ; International and EEA graduates. But this doesn’t mean the other complaints are not treated seriously:NoNo: ! Similarly the GMC and MPTS may be criticised - although both are made up of doctors and NON medical members.


• The face of UK medicine is changing :xxgrinning--00xx3:! Over half of our 40,000 ( + ) medical students in 33 medical schools are female ; and over 2/5 of our 260,000 registered doctors are female. 2/3 gained their primary medical qualification in the UK ; a quarter are International Medical Graduates ( IMGs ) and a tenth now EEA graduates ( especially from southern Europe ).


• The needs of patients are changing – many more live longer with long term illnesses ; the UK is multicultural with differing health conditions and demands.


• More IS being done to " train up British medics and have pay / conditions that makes them want to work for the NHS " :xxgrinning--00xx3: ! More women doctors are breaking into traditionally male areas like surgery and emergency medicine. Medical royal colleges ( including my own ) are promoting their specialties.



• MORE, not less, UK graduates are leaving to work abroad – especially Australia / New Zealand. It’s easier said than done to persuade them to stay :doh ! There are still unpopular specialties and areas to work – and most of our " imported " doctors who fill these posts are NOT substandard.


• It’s surely not " off topic " to briefly compare UK with the Philippines. The Philippines has more medical schools than the UK ( around 38 ). The schools are regulated by the Commision on Higher Education and accredited by the Association of Philippine Medical Colleges. There are only around 70,000 active doctors for the 100 million population. The Philippine Medical Association regulates medical practice and the Department of Health has " general monitoring supervisory powers " over doctors and other health workers.



• The UK GMC and MPTS may be imperfect – but as always I would defend OUR NHS and methods we have to ensure doctors working here are up to standard. Since the end of 2012 ALL doctors have been required to " revalidate " regularly to show that they remain fit to practise medicine. It’s unrealistic to ever imagine they would ALL be UK graduates :NoNo:. We’re lucky - not only that unpopular specialties are filled by non-UK graduates, but also that brilliant foreign doctors choose to work here :xxgrinning--00xx3:.