NHS Under Pressure, Admits Health Secretary

[andy222]

Well what do you know? :doh. People have only been telling him for the last 4 years. T**T!

http://news.sky.com/story/1402915/nhs-under-pressure-admits-health-secretary

[Arthur Little]

Well, what do you know? :doh. People have only been telling him for the last 4 years. T**T!

http://news.sky.com/story/1402915/nhs-under-pressure-admits-health-secretary

Him and his predecessors ... not only him. :wink:

[Arthur Little]

Him and his predecessor ... not only him. :wink:

Just as they'll tell his successors too ... :anerikke: ... whatever his/her/their political colours.

Problem being, of course, the NHS has, for decades, been top-heavy with glorified penpushers :cwm25: and professionally understaffed!

[Arthur Little]

Just as they'll tell his successor too ... :anerikke: ... whatever his/her/their political colours.

Problem being, of course, the NHS has, for decades, been top-heavy with glorified penpushers :cwm25: and professionally understaffed!

:yeahthat: ... plus, people are living to a much greater age than ever before. :olddude:s like me, for instance, might be around for another 30 years yet. :smile:

[joebloggs]

Arthur, one reason why it's got worse is:


A significant factor in this is the squeeze on councils' social care budgets. Many of the patients who end up in hospital are frail and elderly, and when they are ready to be released need support in the community to get back on their feet. If it's not there, they have to stay in hospital, which occupies a bed often needed for other patients.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30415396


You need look no further than Salford Royal Hospital to realise the point the NHS has got to.

The trust is generally regarded as one of the best - if not the best - in the UK. It outperforms its counterparts on a whole host of measures from patient satisfaction to waiting times.

But in early December it missed the four-hour A&E waiting time target - dipping below the 95% standard by the narrowest of margins. Since then weekly performance has got even worse. This is not a quirk. It's been dragged down along with the rest of the hospital sector.

This is my local hospital, the Tories closed the maternity ward. :crazy: that in a city of 250,000 people it doesn't have a maternity ward and at one of the best NHS hospitals :mad::crazy:

[Arthur Little]

Well, Joe ... the *reason you've quoted above is certainly a very:gp:! But what I've already cited in the second paragraph of the post immediately prior to it is * its antecedent - because people are living longer lives ... :anerikke: ... and so there's bound to be a considerable backlash - leading to a MASSIVE depletion of resources - as a result!

[Arthur Little]

Salford Royal Hospital

This is my local hospital, the Tories closed the maternity ward. :crazy: that in a city of 250,000 people it doesn't have a maternity ward and at one of the best NHS hospitals :mad::crazy:

That IS shocking ... :iagree:! But this is exactly what the former Tayside Health Board did with the modern, state-of-the-art Maternity Block at Perth Royal Infirmary barely 20 years after it was built :mad: ... at a time when ('scuse pun) the last Labour Government was in power.

Nowadays some young mothers-to-be are forced to travel upwards of 50 miles from Highland Perthshire to their nearest facility at Ninewells Hospital in Dundee in order to give birth.

How :crazy: is that!

[Dedworth]

As I've said before much of this goes back to the millions of immigrants let in by Labour who have never had a doctor and go to A & E at the drop of a hat compounded by their laughable 2004 GP contracts less hours for more pay

[Dedworth]

That IS shocking ... :iagree:! But this is exactly what the former Tayside Health Board did with the modern, state-of-the-art Maternity Block at Perth Royal Infirmary barely 20 years after it was built :mad: ... at a time when ('scuse pun) the last Labour Government was in power.

Nowadays some young mothers-to-be are forced to travel upwards of 50 miles from Highland Perthshire to their nearest facility at Ninewells Hospital in Dundee in order to give birth.

How :crazy: is that!

I thought NHS Scotland was fully devolved and run by the Scottish Government :Erm:

[andy222]

As I've said before much of this goes back to the millions of immigrants let in by Labour who have never had a doctor and go to A & E at the drop of a hat compounded by their laughable 2004 GP contracts less hours for more pay

Immigrants are still being let in by the Tories. You have to extend the services in accordance with the population and that means building more facilities and employing more staff. Not cutting back and closing hospitals. Jeremy *unt and the Tories have cost the Health Service billions with their reforms and now ordinary people are paying the price.

[Dedworth]

Best not to mention Labour run NHS Wales then

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/2474A40200000578-2899844-image-a-13_1420593214420.jpg

[andy222]

Where did they get those figures from?

[Dedworth]

Where did they get those figures from?

Biased Broadcasting Corporation so they must me right buried towards bottom of page http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30679949

However, the performance in England is still better than elsewhere in the UK. The data in the other nations lags a bit behind England.

In Wales the data from November shows just 83.8% of patients were seen in time.

Northern Ireland is performing even worse - just over 80% of patients were seen within four hours in November.

Scotland has a slightly tougher waiting time target - 98% of patients should be seen in four hours - but in September 93.5% were.

Comparing the September figures for England and Scotland shows England was performing slightly better in that month.
A&E performance across the UK
Nation Target Latest performance

England


95% of patients in four hours


92.6% October to December

Northern Ireland


95% of patients in four hours


80.5% in November

Scotland


98% of patients in four hours


93.5% of patients in September

Wales


95% of patients in four hours


83.8% of patients in November

It means according to latest data all parts of the UK are missing the A&E waiting time target.

[andy222]

The data is wrong. Anyway I do not think anyone would be bothered about any other nations if they were lying on a trolley waiting to be seen for 4 hours. I don't think you would be to happy Ded if one of your loved ones were in that position.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4930801.ece/alternates/s615b/Major-incidents-map.jpg

[Dedworth]

The data is wrong.

Can you expand on that



Anyway I do not think anyone would be bothered about any other nations if they were lying on a trolley waiting to be seen for 4 hours. I dont think you would be to happy Ded if one of your loved ones were in that position.
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4930801.ece/alternates/s615b/Major-incidents-map.jpg

I've had all that in the good old days :cwm25:

When my Mum had a stroke in 1999, when she was admitted and died the next day in 2009 and when my Dad was admitted Sept 2005 (passing away after some fairly poor treatment 3 months later)

[andy222]

So you believe data from the BBC? :laugher: In 1999, the Labour Government was setting about putting the NHS right again after John Major and the Tories had messed it up again. :wink:

[Arthur Little]

I thought NHS Scotland was fully devolved and run by the Scottish Government :Erm:

Yes, it IS ... and SNP currently holds the majority of seats in Scotland. But the closure I'm talking about, took place at a time when Labour was the ruling Party north of the Border. :ReadIt:

[cheekee]

As a senior nurse I have never seen it as bad as this before.

Many NHS Trusts have seen the highest level of emergency admissions since the NHS started.

Many Trusts have declared major incidents.

Sadly a lot of people are attending A+E because they can't or won't get an appointment with a GP.

In my area there is loads of new housing and hospitals have not been developed or capacity increased to cope.

I'm fed up of hearing people in the corridor slagging off nursing staff and other NHS staff because their relative has been waiting for a bed for hours. Not enough people can be discharged because they are either too sick or are medically fit but there are no care hours available so they can go home.

People traditionally dump their elderly relatives in hospital over Christmas as well which doesn't help.

Sad state of affairs.

[Michael Parnham]

As I've said before much of this goes back to the millions of immigrants let in by Labour who have never had a doctor and go to A & E at the drop of a hat compounded by their laughable 2004 GP contracts less hours for more pay

Absolutely correct! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Michael Parnham]

I can't see any Party letting the NHS go in the immediate future! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Dedworth]

So you believe data from the BBC? :laugher: In 1999, the Labour Government was setting about putting the NHS right again after John Major and the Tories had messed it up again. :wink:

You ought to believe what they say Andy other than the Union Barons they're Labours biggest supporter

As Cheekee says, "Sadly a lot of people are attending A+E because they can't or won't get an appointment with a GP."

Which brings us back to Labours mass uncontrolled Immigration, Labours 2004 GP contracts, overpaid GP's unwilling to provide a 21st century service and my thread

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php/55431-Money-grabbing-Doctors-opposed-to-7-day-GP-Service/page2?highlight=contracts

[Trefor]

This really frustrates me. Why can't the government fix the reasons for all this, they are the government after all.

- Evening drop-in medical centers/small injury clinics
- Charges for A&E where clearly proven fault (car accident guilty party etc. European 'uman rights (ECHR) will prevent us charging drunks and fatties who trip over their bellies on the way to the fridge).
- Immigrants who don't know better

Also, why don't private providers set up in competition for those who can afford it (costs money but 30 mins wait instead of 5 hrs to un-superglue little Jimmy's finger from his .... - I'd pay!).

[les_taxi]

Immigrants are still being let in by the Tories? Your party started it all :icon_lol:

2 things come to light. Many people are living longer and idiots are going to A&E for the wrong reason. On Five Live today, it was discussed and one person went to A&E with a broken nail!

The young generation are not being educated properly by the look of things.

No good blaming this government when the pressure is cause by more idiots wasting hospitals time :doh

[andy222]

It's all to do with the cuts and reforms that the Tories have put in place. :xxgrinning--00xx3:

If the NHS is working so well, why are the Tories all of a sudden throwing £2 billion at it? Better still, the country has no money, so where they getting it from?

[Arthur Little]

Many people are living longer

Quite possibly that is one of the most likely causes - as I've already said in #4 (and reiterated in #6) Les - yet I needn't have bothered ... as nobody seems to've paid a blind bit of notice! :cwm25:

[les_taxi]

It's all to do with the cuts and reforms that the Tories have put in place.

Thanks to Labour nearly bankrupting the country :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

As I've said before much of this goes back to the millions of immigrants let in by Labour who have never had a doctor and go to A & E at the drop of a hat compounded by their laughable 2004 GP contracts less hours for more pay

Err ... do you mean immigrants from Europe ? You know you can't stop them coming here :wink:

You think people go to A & E instead of a GP ? Have you worked in A & E or in a GP surgery Dedworth ? :cwm25:

Oh :doh My misses has. I'll ask her and tell you what she says, how many of those who went to A & E could have gone to their GP instead when she wakes up. It's been a long 10-hr day for her, less hours more pay :laugher:

[joebloggs]

Thanks to Labour nearly bankrupting the country :icon_lol:

Labour also nearly bankrupted the USA, Russia and most of Europe and the world :laugher:

Now if they had the family silver to sell off :cwm25: Oh, there wasn't much left - Thatcher sold it all off. Where did the money go Les? £50bn+ :cwm25:

[Michael Parnham]

I'm sure when Andy was born the fist thing he was taught was whatever he does in life he must never forget he was born to have this extreme hatred for the Tories, c'mon Andy talk about something normal people talk about!:wink:

[SimonH]

I'm sure when Andy was born the fist thing he was taught was whatever he does in life he must never forget he was born to have this extreme hatred for the Tories, c'mon Andy talk about something normal people talk about!:wink:

:xxgrinning--00xx3::laugher::laugher:

[Dedworth]

Labour also nearly bankrupted the USA, Russia and most of Europe and the world :laugher:

Now if they had the family silver to sell off :cwm25: Oh, there wasn't much left - Thatcher sold it all off. Where did the money go Les? £50bn+ :cwm25:

Where & why did all the gold reserves go ?

[SimonH]

Where & why did all the gold reserves go ?

Labour sold it all off cheap so chav dossers on council estates could look 'ard innit :wink:

[Dedworth]

Labour sold it all off cheap so chav dossers on council estates could look 'ard innit :wink:

There was me thinking there was some sound economic reasoning behind it :biggrin:

[Doc Alan]

Health concerns us all, so we all have opinions about healthcare, not all backed up by good evidence.


Jeremy Hunt has only been English Health Secretary since September 2012. As control over each country’s health system was devolved since the late 1990s, the opinions of EACH health minister also affect policies – Shona Robison ( Scotland ), Mark Drakeford ( Wales ) and Jim Wells ( Northern Ireland ). Each country has a tax-funded service with universal coverage, similar values, and similar operating principles, with comprehensive benefits – but the differing policies don’t appear to have made much measurable difference to health between them.


A & E departments ARE under real pressure – more people are turning up at A & E. Attendance rates are higher in England and Northern Ireland than Scotland and Wales. NO UK health service can claim that 95% of patients spend less than 4 hours in A & E at the moment – but this is just ONE performance indicator :doh ! Some conditions need to be seen urgently ; others can wait several hours. UK A & E still compares favourably with systems in many other countries including the Philippines.


Several NHS hospital trusts have declared " major incident " status recently. Such incidents are " any occurrence that presents serious threat to the health of the community, disruption to the service or causes such numbers or types of casualties to require special arrangements to be implemented ". This means they can bring in extra staff, divert staff from other activities, and postpone " some routine procedures " ( such as non-emergency operations ).


Reasons - with at least SOME good evidence - for the A & E " crisis " include :-


• Ageing population ( pointed out by Arthur, among others ).


• Up to a third of those attending A & E COULD have been treated elsewhere – by a GP ( although most people go to A & E during working hours ) ; minor injuries unit / walk in centre ; or pharmacist. " NHS 111 " MAY have increased numbers referred to A & E.


• Cuts to social care ( council budgets inadequate ) – elderly people more likely to need A & E, then " bed blocking " if admitted.


• Staff shortages – nurses, doctors in training and consultants – aggravated by insufficient numbers of GPs ( no compulsion to enter such specialities ).


• Political " point scoring ", instead of cooperating, to solve the problems – not only in A & E but also the NHS as a whole.


• More resources – money and staff – needed, for the NHS and A & E.


• Possible solutions include a dedicated ( " hypothecated " ) NHS tax ; diverting resources from other budgets to the NHS ; more insurance and direct payments ; competition between healthcare providers and privatisation ( no evidence of a realistic possibility - for either A & E, or most of the NHS as a whole ).


The election run-in doesn’t need relentless disputes between politicians about each party’s health data and track records. OUR NHS needs political parties and experienced healthcare workers to COLLABORATE in providing best NHS and SOCIAL care for people living longer, with more complex and expensive illnesses ( urgent and long term ).

It employs 1.7 million people and keeps many more healthy enough to work and enjoy life. Of course it could improve – just like any other large organization, but there’s no one simple solution. It’s still the envy of our Filipino friends, for whom if health care can’t be afforded, they stay ill ( or worse ).

[Dedworth]

" NHS 111 " MAY have increased numbers referred to A & E.




Valid point Doc - 1st time I heard that this was probably going on was on the radio this morning - I wonder where the NHS 111 call centres are ? :Erm::smile:

[joebloggs]

Where & why did all the gold reserves go ?

What was the value of the good reserves Dedworth ? :Erm:

[SimonH]

What was the value of the good reserves Dedworth :Erm:

Not sure about the good reserves :Erm:

The gold reserves were sold market value though, fair enough but the rest of the precious metal dealers in the world were buying because the price was going up daily. The-one eyed Scottish moron being in charge of the Nation's Economy at the time should have known this and kept hold of a very valuable asset :cwm25:

[SimonH]

Sold at $277/oz peaked at $1780/oz:doh

Generated £3.5 Billion, could have generated £22.5 Billion :NoNo:

[SimonH]

How much difference could that £19 Billion make to the NHS :Erm:

[joebloggs]

How much difference could that £19 Billion make to the NHS :Erm:


Did you mean $ or £ ? I would have thought you would have known the difference being a businessman :cwm25:

:laugher: When did gold peak at $1780/oz :Erm: :cwm25: Oh, 12 yrs later! :doh Why didn't Cameron sell what was left then when it was at its peak ? :doh

http://media.ampp3d.co.uk/u/2014/04/GoldSaleBrown.jpg

£19 Billion :cwm25: what Tory fantasy comic have you been reading, even the Daily Snail only goes as high as £9billion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118319/Budget-2012-How-lost-9BILLION-Gordon-Brown-selling-gold-cheap.html

Yet the truth is ...

http://ampp3d.mirror.co.uk/2014/04/11/the-final-word-on-gordon-browns-gold-sell-off/

[SimonH]

You've answered the question in your own post Joe :doh

$ as in the price of gold and £ as in the amount of money it generated and could have generated for the British economy, I thought it was fairly obvious :Erm: Maybe not :cwm25:

[joebloggs]

Sold at $277/oz peaked at $1780/oz:doh

Generated £3.5 Billion, could have generated £22.5 Billion :NoNo:


You've answered the question in your own post Joe :doh

$ as in the price of gold and £ as in the amount of money it generated and could have generated for the British economy, I thought it was fairly obvious :Erm: Maybe not :cwm25:

:doh no, its not fairly obvious to me, where did you get your figures from, £3.5billion and £22.5 billion :cwm25:

maybe ..

$277oz * 32,000 oz in a ton * 400 tonnes = $3,545,600,000 or $3.5 Billion not £, looks like i know the difference between $ and the £ :wink:


Price of bullion was at 20-year low when Brown sold 400 tonnes for £2bn in 1999

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118319/Budget-2012-How-lost-9BILLION-Gordon-Brown-selling-gold-cheap.html#ixzz3OObkIjZJ



no comment on my link :icon_lol:

tell me how much thatcher got for the family sliver , oh and dont forget to add the £1billion lost last year with the sale of the post office :wink:

[SimonH]

Joe, I'm not getting into another slanging match with you. Let's face it the price of gold, silver, the post office or a loaf of bread has sod all to do with the original topic.
Let's try and keep on track for once shall we :Erm:

[joebloggs]

You've answered the question in your own post Joe :doh

$ as in the price of gold and £ as in the amount of money it generated and could have generated for the British economy, I thought it was fairly obvious :Erm: Maybe not :cwm25:



Joe, I'm not getting into another slanging match with you. Let's face it the price of gold, silver, the post office or a loaf of bread has sod all to do with the original topic.
Let's try and keep on track for once shall we :Erm:

it was dedworth and then you who mentioned gold reserves :biggrin:

:icon_lol: because your wrong again, I'll leave you in the hole you've dug before you dig any deeper :wink:

[SimonH]

it was dedworth and then you who mentioned gold reserves :biggrin:

:icon_lol: because your wrong again, I'll leave you in the hole you've dug before you dig any deeper :wink:

Suggest you go back and read your post 28 again Joe, the one about selling off the silver which started the derailing of the topic as usual :cwm25:

By the way what did your mrs say when you asked her how many people who attended A&E could have been dealt with by a local GP :Erm:

If you need a shovel, then just ask :wink:

[joebloggs]

Suggest you go back and read your post 28 again Joe, the one about selling off the silver which started the derailing of the topic as usual :cwm25:

By the way what did your mrs say when you asked her how many people who attended A&E could have been dealt with by a local GP :Erm:

If you need a shovel, then just ask :wink:

try going back to this post :biggrin:


Thanks to Labour nearly bankrupting the country :icon_lol:


as for the misses, ones who go to A & e with a cough or cold, but not many of them come in ambulances, and they are sent off on their way home pretty quickly and they dont take up hospital beds or tents :icon_lol:

no i dont need a shovel, but if i need one i know who to ask, you've got a few :icon_lol:

[SimonH]

try going back to this post :biggrin:




as for the misses, ones who go to A & e with a cough or cold, but not many of them come in ambulances, and they are sent off on their way home pretty quickly and they dont take up hospital beds or tents :icon_lol:

no i dont need a shovel, but if i need one i know who to ask, you've got a few :icon_lol:


Don't recall anyone asking how they got there :Erm:

Les didn't mention anything about Gold, Silver or anything else, he just stated a fact :smile:

You were the one who started on the selling off silver, don't blame others Joe.
Just admit you're wrong :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Back to the topic shall we before another one gets closed :Erm:

[joebloggs]

:icon_lol: read the title of the thread
NHS Under Pressure, Admits Health Secretary

the Ambulance service is under pressure, which is part of the NHS :wink:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-crisis-fire-engines-being-used-as-makeshift-ambulances-9963119.html

facts are thatcher sold the family sliver and brown sold gold :icon_lol: , if you look Les posted before me about the labour party :wink:

the only 1 wrong is you, where did you get £3.5 billion from :wink:

i bet you wish it was closed, so you can start filling your hole in :icon_lol:

but i have one more post to make on this thread, but its not about you :biggrin: so :Wave: to you..

[SimonH]

:icon_lol: read the title of the thread

the Ambulance service is under pressure, which is part of the NHS :wink:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-crisis-fire-engines-being-used-as-makeshift-ambulances-9963119.html

facts are thatcher sold the family sliver and brown sold gold :icon_lol: , if you look Les posted before me about the labour party :wink:

the only 1 wrong is you, where did you get £3.5 billion from :wink:

i bet you wish it was closed, so you can start filling your hole in :icon_lol:

but i have one more post to make on this thread, but its not about you :biggrin: so :Wave: to you..


Once again twisting words to suit your so called argument, you said you'd ask your mrs how many people came into A&E who could have been treated by a GP nothing about how many came in an ambulance.

[joebloggs]

I've already told you:cwm25:, not that many, the ones who come in with coughs and colds. GP's dont treat people who have had a heart attack or stroke they go to A & E, or those who need stitches or have broken bones etc:doh

[SimonH]

I've already told you:cwm25:, not that many, the ones who come in with coughs and colds. GP's dont treat people who have had a heart attack or stroke they go to A & E, or those who need stitches or have broken bones etc:doh

No, you said not that many of them come in ambulances, therefore insinuating that some do :Erm:
So, according to your mrs people do turn up at A&E with coughs and colds :wink:

[joebloggs]

:icon_lol: You can blame Cameron who scrapped NHS Direct - that used Nurses to answer calls - for his 111 service which, in many cases, uses unqualified call handlers who have sent Ambulances for ....


Our inquiries to ambulance crews across the country have revealed shocking cases of inappropriate emergency referrals by 111 call handlers.



http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/419562/A-E-at-crisis-point-Untrained-NHS-111-staff-send-ambulances-to-250-000-more-emergencies

and

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/550657/A-E-crisis-NHS-111-helpline-blamed

people with coughs and colds do go to A & E but they would have to get past the receptionist, then past the Nurse who might tell them to go and see their GP or go to the out of hours surgery and if they did get to see a doctor and it wasn't an emergency they would be sent on their way pretty quickly, but if it's a young child that will probably be a different matter.