Non EU spouses resident in EU, travel to UK without a visa

[johncar54]

Sorry to ask this question again but I have not seen a post from anyone who says they have travelled in these circumstances.

My wife is Filipina, I am British and Irish. I have a current Irish Passport. My wife has permanent residency in Spain.

The UK Gov web site says my wife can travel with me to UK using just her Residencia and Philippines PP.

Friends of ours in Spain (husband also with dual nationality same as me, and his Filipina permanent resident wife) recently went to UK having been told that they needed a visa, which they obtained. When they arrived in UK they tried to enter, in effect without using the visa, but were questioned and she was fingerprinted. They asked how many times she had visited UK, for what periods and for what reasons etc.

They were given to understand that ‘it is better’ that when she goes to UK for her to have a visa.

We have seen a great flight deal Malaga to MNL via LGW and LHR so we need to know

Has anyone entered UK without a visa in similar circumstances and if so, which airline allowed them to board without a visa?

Thanks

[stevewool]

If you are just thinking of the flight, surely you will not leave the airport so you will not need the visa. Thats my way of thinking but rather be safe than sorry. I hope someone will be along to know the answer

[johncar54]

If you are just thinking of the flight, surely you will not leave the airport so you will not need the visa. Thats my way of thinking but rather be safe than sorry. I hope someone will be along to know the answer

Thanks Steve, but the flight is: Malaga to LGW (Gatwick) then transfer by road to LHR (Heathrow) then to MNL (Manila)

[stevewool]

Sorry John, i thought it was either Gatwick or Heathrow. If it was me, i would stay put, great weather, warm - and the money you will save on the flights and visa, you could have a great time for months :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[johncar54]

Sorry John, i thought it was either Gatwick or Heathrow. If it was me, i would stay put, great weather, warm - and the money you will save on the flights and visa, you could have a great time for months :xxgrinning--00xx3:

It's my wife who wants to go and I don't think she could make it alone (male chauvinist pig that I am).

[Arthur Little]

Tbh, John ... I'd have thought with your wife's Permanent EEA Residency - and you being a citizen of BOTH :Britain: and the Irish Republic - that she could accompany you without a visa. But there again ... :anerikke: ... possibly my thinking is incorrect, since these Immigration Officials can (as your friends' case highlights!) be a :censored: finicky bunch - albeit often with the wrong types of people,
for example, ordinary decent holidaymakers like yourselves.

[Terpe]

John, I wonder if this UKVI publication can provide you with the answers:-

Visitors in transit (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/381070/Transiting_the_UK_v11_0_EXT.pdf)

Don't take any unecessary risks at all with Immigration and such planned travel

[johncar54]

Terpe, thanks for your post

I am sure that my wife comes within the requirements to travel to UK under article 10 i.e.

If you are a non-EEA national who holds a valid genuine residence card, issued to you as the family member of an EEA national who is exercising free movement rights in another EEA State (i.e. not your EEA relative’s Member State of nationality) under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (the ‘Free Movement Directive’), you may use this document for travel to the UK if you are accompanying your EEA national relative here, or joining your EEA national relative in the UK.


However, I cannot get confirmation from British Airways that they would allow her to board. That is why I am hoping to find others who have exercised that right.

I am sure that my friend’s wife, whom I mentioned in my opening post, was OK under that too, but from what she and her husband have told me, I am not certain that Immigration agreed.

[Terpe]

Whatever you do John, don't underestimate the varying levels of understanding when it comes to both immigration rules and airline rules.

Despite the rights or wrongs international holiday travel can easily become an unwelcome nightmare.
You might consider following the UKVI guidance or even consider a less complex route.

[johncar54]

Thanks again.

I will read that info, but I still hope I will hear from others who have used the Article 10 MO.

[johncar54]

Sorry to ask this question again but I have not seen a post from anyone who says they have travelled in these circumstances.

I have not heard from anyone who has done this.

Does that mean no one here has ?

[SimonH]

Under the circumstances wouldn't it be worth paying a few pounds more and fly from Malaga to Heathrow :Erm:
The extra it will cost will probably be less than paying for a transfer from LGW to LHR. Failing that Emirates have 4 flights a day from LGW :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[johncar54]

Thanks Simon for the idea but having looked at flights there are no AGP to LHR at anything like reasonable prices, and then i have the problem of having to get the flight into LHR to 'line up' with the flight to MNL and vice versa.

Also by making two separate bookings, with many holiday insurances, that is not possible. So if we were to arrive late at LHR and miss the connection, that would not be covered.

[SimonH]

198€ return :Erm:

http://www.skyscanner.es/transporte/vuelos/agp/lhr/vuelos-baratos-de-malaga-a-londres-heathrow.html?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&cabinclass=economy&rtn=1&preferdirects=true&outboundaltsenabled=false&inboundaltsenabled=false&oym=1510&iym=1510&market=ES

[johncar54]

Exactly, add that to the cost of a flight via say Paris, Frankfurt etc. no saving and the problems with connections. Thanks anyway.

[johncar54]

On the point I made about insurance cover. It would apply to say a person booking from Manchester to London, and then as a separate booking to Manila.

https://www.insureandgo.com/contact-us
Welcome to InsureandGo's live chat service. An agent will be with you shortly.

You are now connected with Tom

John: I am resident in Spain and intend flying from Malaga to Manila via London, booked as two separate legs.From what I remember there used to be a problem with booking a flight from Spain to UK, and then making a connection for a flight to say Far East which had been booked as a separate booking. . I believe that it was not possible to get cover for that trip because it was two separate bookings. I understood that some companies were going to amend the rules, so that providing there was at least a 3 hours gap between scheduled arrival for first leg, and take off for second leg, the insurance would cover if one missed the second leg because of a delay on the first leg. I know if one made a similar booking, but as one transaction, that risk would be covered Thanks John Carrington.

Tom: Sorry John, we can only cover UK residents, currently in the UK, who's trip departs from the UK.

John: Thanks

John: But what would happen if say a UK resident flew from London to Malaga, And then as a separate booking flew to Manila

John: then back to Malaga and then back to UK

Tom: You would put the start date as the date you depart the UK, and the end date as the date you arrive back in the UK. You would also select a region that covers both Spain and the Philippines. However with regards to flights, we only cover the first outward flight (out of the UK) and the final return flight (returning to the UK).


John: But if I missed the connection flight in Spain then you are saying I could not claim

Tom: That's correct.

John: Thanks

[Arthur Little]

On the point I made about insurance cover. It would apply to say a person booking from Manchester to London, and then as a separate booking to Manila.

https://www.insureandgo.com/contact-us
Welcome to InsureandGo's live chat service. An agent will be with you shortly.

You are now connected with Tom

John: I am resident in Spain and intend flying from Malaga to Manila via London, booked as two separate legs.From what I remember there used to be a problem with booking a flight from Spain to UK, and then making a connection for a flight to say Far East which had been booked as a separate booking. . I believe that it was not possible to get cover for that trip because it was two separate bookings. I understood that some companies were going to amend the rules, so that providing there was at least a 3 hours gap between scheduled arrival for first leg, and take off for second leg, the insurance would cover if one missed the second leg because of a delay on the first leg. I know if one made a similar booking, but as one transaction, that risk would be covered Thanks John Carrington.

Tom: Sorry John, we can only cover UK residents, currently in the UK, who's trip departs from the UK.

John: Thanks

John: But what would happen if say a UK resident flew from London to Malaga, And then as a separate booking flew to Manila

John: then back to Malaga and then back to UK

Tom: You would put the start date as the date you depart the UK, and the end date as the date you arrive back in the UK. You would also select a region that covers both Spain and the Philippines. However with regards to flights, we only cover the first outward flight (out of the UK) and the final return flight (returning to the UK).


John: But if I missed the connection flight in Spain then you are saying I could not claim

Tom: That's correct.

John: Thanks


ANOTHER interesting and informative write~up, John ... :68711_thanx:

[johncar54]

Hi all, Back to the thread.

We are booked to go from Spain to Gatwick in November. It will be the first time Elaine has been to UK.

For entry we will be relying on her having a valid Philippines Passport and a Valid Residencia, i.e. as copied below.

We will be flying EasyJet who will not confirm that Elaine will be allowed to board under those conditions but I am fairly confident that I can persuade them at check-in.
We would be grateful to hear from others who have entered UK using that MO and in particular would appreciate knowing what happened when they arrived in UK. That is, did they go together through the immigration check, maybe through the non UK.

We have friends and whilst he, a UK national went through that check point , his wife, Filipina went thorough the 'other' check. She was found the reception 'difficult and unfriendly` although she was allowed to enter UK.

Many thanks
John

MO

If you are a non-EEA national who holds a valid genuine residence card, issued to you as the family member of an EEA national who is exercising free movement rights in another EEA State (i.e. not your EEA relative’s Member State of nationality) under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (the ‘Free Movement Directive’), you may use this document for travel to the UK if you are accompanying your EEA national relative here, or joining your EEA national relative in the UK.

[Trefor]

John car - you may be right in principle and the best of luck to you. However, I think the issue will be whether she can board the flight in the first place. Have a read of this article, which discusses why refugees don't fly in from Ethiopia etc. instead of paying trafficers thousands. From an airline's perspective they have the right to refuse boarding. I think I suggested driving to Calais previously, thus you speak directly with UK border sitting at the Chunnel/ferry terminal.

https://fee.org/articles/why-are-so-many-refugees-drowning/

[johncar54]

Trefor The ability to board has been discussed and as I remember several people have posted to the effect that under the EU law they were allowed to board. I know that was a potential problem when the Directive came out, but I want to hear from those who have done it.

Thanks John

[johncar54]

Our date of travel is getting nearer.

I should be grateful to hear from anyone who has travelled to UK using Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (Valid Non UK Passport, Residencia and marriage cert)


Many thanks, John

[Michael Parnham]

Our date of travel is getting nearer.

I should be grateful to hear from anyone who has travelled to UK using Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (Valid Non UK Passport, Residencia and marriage cert)


Many thanks, John

Hope someone can help John, even though it seems quite dormant:cwm25:

[johncar54]

Hope someone can help John, even though it seems quite dormant:cwm25:

Thanks Michael.

I really cannot think that there are no members who have not used, or tried to use the facility.

This is an extract from:

[URL="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card"]Updated 11 May 2015


If you are a non-EEA national who holds a valid genuine residence card, issued to you as the family member of an EEA national who is exercising free movement rights in another EEA State (i.e. not your EEA relative’s Member State of nationality) under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (the ‘Free Movement Directive’), you may use this document for travel to the UK if you are accompanying your EEA national relative here, or joining your EEA national relative in the UK.

1. Article 10 residence card
An Article 10 residence card is a document which is issued under EU law (‘the Free Movement Directive’) by EEA Member States to non-EEA family members of EEA nationals who are exercising free movement rights in another Member State than that of their nationality. For example, the non-EEA spouse of a French national who is living and working in Italy may be issued with an Article 10 residence card by the Italian authorities.

An Article 10 residence card should feature the wording “Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen”.

Another document, “Permanent Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen” issued under Article 20 of the Directive is also acceptable.

……………………..

A non-EEA spouse of a German national living and working in France will usually hold a residence card issued by the French authorities under EU law. Therefore a United Kingdom issued EEA family permit is not required for travel and entry to the UK.


2. What you are allowed to do with a residence card
A valid, genuine Article 10 (or Article 20) residence card allows the non-EEA national family member of an EEA national to travel to the UK without the requirement to obtain an EEA family permit.

However, in order to be admitted to the UK you will need to demonstrate that you have a right of admission under EU law. Without evidence that you have a right of admission, you will not be allowed to enter to the UK on the basis of your residence card.

3. Evidence you need to bring in addition to your residence card
In order to be admitted to the UK, we would expect to see the following
in addition to your valid residence card:

your valid passport
evidence that you are the family member of an EEA national (for example, your marriage certificate or birth certificate)

[Michael Parnham]

Reading what you are allowed to do seems ok, providing one produces the required evidence. What can go wrong?:Erm:

[johncar54]

Reading what you are allowed to do seems ok, providing one produces the required evidence. What can go wrong?:Erm:

I hope 'we' are right !

[Steve.r]

From what you describe and say John, I cannot see a problem. Just make sure you can provide the documents necessary.

You know that the UK immigration are going to stop and check everyone, but they must use common sense too to join the dots.
I also have had a run in with the UK Passport Office recently, telling me to send extra information regarding my little boy's first British Passport. They had all required documents (as set in their notes) but they still wanted more.... They do not like to make connections and it's easier for them to tell you to do the running than them get off their backsides and do their jobs properly. Make it watertight, give them no excuses to reject your wife. For my application (my 3rd child with my wife) they wouldn't refer to my two other children with my wife, having already had all documentation twice before. I sent them a snotty email with scans of my other children's passports (both British) and told them to use common sense! This then was accepted but in the reply they harped on about fraud and identity theft blah blah blah...

Anyway, I digress. Good luck John.

[johncar54]

Thanks Steve

[stevewool]

Good luck John, you could sail through and all this worry would by for nothing,

[johncar54]

Up date

Last week we arrived at Malaga airport to take a flight to London. Passport control checked my wife’s Philippines passport and her Resdencia Card. They then checked my Passport (Irish one, I also have British nationality) and my out-of-date Residencia Card (expired 2007).

The rules mean one must prove the non EU national is the spouse of an EU national.

That is not all that straightforward.

In my case the expired Residencia bore my NIE (Spanish ID number) finger print and photo. My wife’s resdencia showed she was the wife of John xxx, with NIE xxxxx. Producing almost any other document cannot strictly prove the relationship. Example: A marriage cert only shows one person, Sheila Brown, is married to a John Smith, but it does not prove that either person is in fact that particular individual, only that they have the same name as that person.

At the board desk the EasyJet staff member checked the documents previously produced, plus the marriage certificate. I also produced a copy of the info on the web page I mentioned in post No. 23. The staff member said she was satisfied but that she had to call another person. That person never came to the desk, however, after waiting around 20 minutes, the person spoken to on the phone presumably approved our eligibly and we were allowed to board.

My wife had to complete a UK landing card.

At Gatwick the immigration checked our passports and my wife’s Residencia. My wife’s passport was stamped permitting a 6 month stay. It took a minute or two and was very friendly.

Returning to Spain.

At Gatwick the only time we produced our passports was at the boarding desk. We were asked if my wife had a visa, but when we showed her Residencia we were immediately allowed to board.

Arriving in Malaga both mine and my wife’s passports were inspected and photocopied, hers was stamped.

Thanks to all who posted their thoughts

[Michael Parnham]

Thank you for the update John, all's well that ends well:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Terpe]

Up date

Last week we arrived at Malaga airport to take a flight to London. Passport control checked my wife’s Philippines passport and her Resdencia Card. They then checked my Passport (Irish one, I also have British nationality) and my out-of-date Residencia Card (expired 2007).

The rules mean one must prove the non EU national is the spouse of an EU national.

That is not all that straightforward.

In my case the expired Residencia bore my NIE (Spanish ID number) finger print and photo. My wife’s resdencia showed she was the wife of John xxx, with NIE xxxxx. Producing almost any other document cannot strictly prove the relationship. Example: A marriage cert only shows one person, Sheila Brown, is married to a John Smith, but it does not prove that either person is in fact that particular individual, only that they have the same name as that person.

At the board desk the EasyJet staff member checked the documents previously produced, plus the marriage certificate. I also produced a copy of the info on the web page I mentioned in post No. 23. The staff member said she was satisfied but that she had to call another person. That person never came to the desk, however, after waiting around 20 minutes, the person spoken to on the phone presumably approved our eligibly and we were allowed to board.

My wife had to complete a UK landing card.

At Gatwick the immigration checked our passports and my wife’s Residencia. My wife’s passport was stamped permitting a 6 month stay. It took a minute or two and was very friendly.

Returning to Spain.

At Gatwick the only time we produced our passports was at the boarding desk. We were asked if my wife had a visa, but when we showed her Residencia we were immediately allowed to board.

Arriving in Malaga both mine and my wife’s passports were inspected and photocopied, hers was stamped.

Thanks to all who posted their thoughts

John,
You took a brave step despite the rules being clear but with so much negativity on the experience of others.

Hats off to you :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Thanks for posting details of your experience.
I hope this will others in similar circumstances.

Well done John, thanks one again for the invaluable feedback.

[grahamw48]

Most helpful and informative.

Well done, and thanks for posting. :xxgrinning--00xx3: