End Of Schengen?

[Arthur Little]

Really? :yeahthat:'s GREAT news for members' non-European spouses ... isn't it? :Erm:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-34110978

[Arthur Little]

Really? :yeahthat:'s GREAT news for members' non-European spouses ... isn't it? :Erm:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-34110978

:sorry-2: ... it turns out I was one digit ^short in the link, which has now been duly amended! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

C'mon folks :poke: ... surely this is an issue that merits ... :anerikke: ... at least some sort of feedback! :cwm25:

[Trefor]

I'm sure Schengen or an equivalent will continue to exist. All they will do it put border controls in place - right now you can drive from France, through Belgium and into The Netherlands and zoom up to Germany at 100mph. No controls whatsoever. (I used to live in Amsterdam and once managed to cross Belgium by car in 40 minutes.) :smile: In future due to this immigration/refugee issue they will add checkpoints. If you have a valid Schengen visa (which is like a valid Schengen passport) then on you go.

Today even the borders with Switzerland are loosely policed. Rose and I drove down there last week and I only stopped to get the vignette (motorway tax paid sticker). Nobody checked our passports. Same happened back in 2009 when I was driving my 'anti-social' TVR with my Dad in the car.

[Dedworth]

Well they are the mugs to allow unrestricted transit of illegals, terrorists and crims

[London_Manila]

I never agreed with the Schengen agreement anyway and i am glad the UK opted out of it
All countries still should have strict border controls whether inside the EEC or not
Surely stricter border controls within all European countries should mean less people camped out in Calais
awaiting to illegally enter the Uk......

No border controls larger swarms

[Pete/London]

I would like to offer assylum to the Hungarian Prime minister, he believes in following rules and regulations, and sounds sensible

[London_Manila]

I would like to offer assylum to the Hungarian Prime minister, he believes in following rules and regulations, and sounds sensible

Spot on and look how the gullible media have turned on him for stating a few facts

Sturgeon and Geldof keep on making vomit inducing ridiculous comments :crazy:

[Pete/London]

Its the media that have contributed to the problems...no unbiassed reporting. Just a lot of hand wringers, I just dont get what the media objective is ???

[Arthur Little]

Its the media that have contributed to the problems...no unbiassed reporting. Just a lot of hand wringers, I just dont get what the media objective is ???

:iagree: ... unfortunately ... :anerikke: ... it's the same in the Philippines, I've reason to believe! Particulary in the lead-up to next year's Presidential Elections. :cwm23:

[London_Manila]

Its the media that have contributed to the problems...no unbiassed reporting. Just a lot of hand wringers, I just dont get what the media objective is ???

According to the media we should open the floodgates and keep them open forever
Reporting has been abysmal without ever questioning the motives of these migrants (they are not refugees)

The aussie head of the green party reckons we should take in at least 250,000 :crazy:

Soon overrun Germany will start shutting their gates that will be interesting

Merkel invites them all in and now wants to start sharing them all out :doh

Eastern European countries not happy about having any quotas and of course the Syrians
wont want be in those countries anyway

[johncar54]

Abolish the Schengen Agreement, then like UK all EU countries can keep illegals out.

None to be found in UK, apart from maybe several 100 thousand, although no one knows just how many !!!!!

[stevewool]

Europe is going to be one massive country without borders,
Its not going to be home anymore

[London_Manila]

Europe is going to be one massive country without borders,
Its not going to be home anymore

Europe is a sinking ship with Merkel at the helm
Her policy of inviting economic migrants from Syria will be the Death of Europe
Notice now that Germany is starting to worry now due sheer numbers coming in
Well what did they expect :doh

[Donutz]

The Schengen agreement wil not see it's end any time soon, and I'm glad. Schengen is great for EU citizens and tourists, to move across the continent without wasting time at borders or (incase of foreign tourists) needing to get a dozen visa's if you'd like to tour across Europe.

Schengen isn't to blame for the concerns regarding asyleum either. Hungary and Italy are not applying both the Dublin rules (refugees must apply in the country where they first enter the EU) or the Schengenrules (border control: check people at the external border, either refuse entry or deport those without papers and those who seek asylum must be able to do so, but as per Dublin rules should do so in the EU country which they enter first). SO Hungary letting those people through, that's doing a piss poor job. Can Hungary give shelter to those people and sent back those who are not true refugees? No. Just as Germany cannot shelter them all and just like people naturally prefer one country over the other. It would be best if all memberstates, atleast in Schengen but better yet the whole EU, would lumpsum all asylumapplicants: a refugee who enters any memberstate must apply there, then the EU checks if this person is in need of shelter or somebody who is actually here just to find work (in which case you are turned down and deported from the EU). True refugees will then be distrubuted across all memberstates by a formula that takes population size, size of the country, GNP etc. into account. Those Poles and Hungarians should stop complaining, if we are a union you cannot just pick the fruits you like, you also have to accept the less nice parts of being in a union. Give a bit, take a bit, so that overall we all end up better then we would do as individual countries. Would those refugees prefer Germany over Poland? Most likely, but if they are true refugees they'd accept living in Poland. If they don't, they can pack their bags, move on. If then caught in say Germany they'd be illegal and could be deported. That would take care fo the whole "OMG immigrants at the border" mania. And frankly, refugees will NOT be stopped by a bordercontrol point, they will cross borders unofficially through forests and over water. So just reinstating bordercontrol (ending Schengen) will not help a single bit unless you'd build walls, guardtowers etc. Berlinwall style all along the border of every memberstate... And people would still try to get to certain more popular countries, to which the only solution would be a commin asylum policy which properly distributes people across the member states.

Obviously, the real solution would be to both end the chaos in the country where these people come from (not going to be easy at all...) and more proper refugee camps (the fast majority, 90-95% stay in these camps near the country/area that they fled from). If you are going to be stuck somewhere for a decade or more, just a shelter, food and medicine don't cut it. People want to move on: generate income, see their kids go to school etc. So those camps would need to be turned into proper cities, proper societies.

Thinking that the end of Schengen is the answer or contrubuting to a solution is rather foolish.

[Arthur Little]

Thinking that the end of Schengen is the answer or contributing to a solution is rather foolish.

OK ... :anerikke: ... so you say, but what I'd been getting at was, if such a move were to put a stop to the :censored: necessity for our non-European marital partners going through the palaver of applying for a visa each time they wished to travel to the the Continent, :icon_rolleyes: ... then surely this would be all to the good.

[Donutz]

OK ... :anerikke: ... so you say, but what I'd been getting at was, if such a move were to put a stop to the :censored: necessity for our non-European marital partners going through the palaver of applying for a visa each time they wished to travel to the the Continent, :icon_rolleyes: ... then surely this would be all to the good.To get rid of visas for non-EU partners (spouses) of British and other EU citizens who simply want to enjoy a quick holiday without silly paperwork would be possible if the UK joined the Schengen area (drawback: more asylumseekers to the UK unlessthe EU reforms this along the lines of what I wrote or what Merkel, Juncker etc. are proposing).

An other option would be that an EU spouse permit gives acces to all other EU nations, just as those who have a "family member of an EU/EEA national" residencecard already can. I too find it frustrating that a Dutchy or German who wants to go to the UK for a short holiday, and a Britton who wants to have a short holiday in Spain or Germany, need to go through paperwork. They are rather unlikey to bother anyone and under the Freedom of Movement directives certain rules (saveguards) are in place: it's fine to visit or even move to an other memberstate aslong as you are not an unreasonable burden to that state.

So I really hope that the seperate issue of how to properly deal with asylumseekers (who have false and true refugees amongst them, who would prefer to move to certain nations over other which would burden specific memberstates etc.) on the one hand. This could be done by proper agreements (EU directives?) but they ahve tried this since 2001 or so, but the EU Commission got nowhere as this would give the topic of asylum-migration out of their hands and it would be 'Brussel' that would dictate who ends up where and memberstates don't seem too eager to be willing to do that if this would/could mean an increase in refugees to their own country (NIMBY?). And then for EU citizens and their family we could update the Freedom of Movement directive so that we can travel around freely as if all non-EU spouses (and minors) had a "family member of an EU/EEA national" residencecard. UK and Schengen visa pretty much look alike, if they'd also do that to residencecards and have them in 2-3 languages (national language, English and either Spanish/French/German as a third), that would help the borderguards a lot. The UK could keep it's own visa policy and it's more easily to guard external UK border.

[London_Manila]

Of course a Uk national and his wife should be allowed to travel around Europe unhindered

Allowing economic migrants to roam around Europe unchecked is another matter

[Iani]

Not totally sure scrapping the Schengen would make much difference to the migrant problem. Few countries have difficult to cross borders if you really want to. In many cases, it's just a field to cross. The only time these borders were difficult was back in the cold war days, and that's when those states had high fences, landmines etc.
It would be like trying to seal off the Wales/England border

[Harry T]

Seems Germany is about to bring back Border controls, between Germany and Austria.

[London_Manila]

Seems Germany is about to bring back Border controls, between Germany and Austria.

Just look at the mess Merkel has caused :NoNo:
She invites everyone to Germany and then 4 days later closes the border because they are being overwhelmed
Then she has the gall to state that other European countries are not doing enough
Merkels plans were never going to be sustainable any idiot could see that

Merkel you invited them all there so now you deal with it :cwm23:

[Iani]

Seems Germany is about to bring back Border controls, between Germany and Austria.

I've crossed that border, it's very scenic in places - mountains - but a determined migrant wouldn't have a problem sneaking across. Someone used to hiking would see it as a nice day out with a bit of a challenge

[Harry T]

I really cant see an end to this, To have a National Leader Merkel saying we will take 800,000 is inviting what we are seeing now, which is thousands upon thousands heading in Germanys direction, she has caused this present mass migration which we are seeing day after day, yes we had it prior to her announcement, but what she has said only makes matters worse for other countries.

[London_Manila]

Hungary enforces European laws on economic migrants and then gets lambasted for it :doh

I don't remember any of these Eastern European signing up for a total free for all

Merkels chickens are coming home to roost

No one within the EEC seems capable of criticising Merkel and her unwise invitations