Fire engulfs tower block in west London

[fred]

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10110/production/_96480856_de27-1.jpg

A huge fire has engulfed a tower block in Latimer Road, west London, with firefighters tackling flames from the second floor to the top.

The fire at Grenfell Tower on the Lancaster West Estate was reported at 01:16 BST and about 200 firefighters are tackling the blaze.

George Clarke, the presenter of Channel 4 TV programme Amazing Spaces, told Radio 5 Live: "I'm getting covered in ash, that's how bad it is.

"I'm 100 metres away and I'm absolutely covered in ash.

"It's so heartbreaking, I've seen someone flashing their torches at the top level and they obviously can't get out."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625

[stevewool]

Terrible news for any on living in that block,
On the news this morning and seeing it live it looks like it will topple over very soon.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/huge-fire-engulfs-west-london-tower-block/ar-BBCE7QF

[fred]

Shocking..
Find it hard to believe how this happened in a country with such strict fire regs...People that got out say they were not alerted by fire alarms.. Also they say no sprinkle system working!:cwm23:
They are council flats and most people in there would have been asleep...Any ones guess how many were trapped and died..
Horrific.

[fred]

In November 2016 a residents organisation, Grenfell Action Group, published an article on their website accusing the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Borough_of_Kensington_and_Chelsea) of ignoring health and safety legislation. They accused the council landlord of being an "evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia" and of misconduct regarding voting at annual general meetings. The Group also suggested "the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord". The group has frequently published articles criticising poor fire safety and maintenance at Grenfell Tower. They also revealed that residents had been urged by the landlord and council in newsletters and by notices to stay in their flats in the event of a fire.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire#cite_note-6)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

[Harry T]

It appears that the Firs service could only get as far as the 12th Floor due to the severity of the fire when they were trying to rescue people, there are around 27 floors in this block, I dread to think how many were trapped, from what we see at this moment 8-46am I cannot see how anyone could have survived what's left.

[Michael Parnham]

Horrific, families must have terrible injuries poor souls also many have died RIP.

[Arthur Little]

:omg: ... it doesn't bear thinking about!

[fred]

"ALL OUR WARNINGS FELL ON DEAF EARS"

Regular readers of this blog will know that we have posted numerous warnings in recent years about the very poor fire safety standards at Grenfell Tower and elsewhere in RBKC.
ALL OUR WARNINGS FELL ON DEAF EARS and we predicted that a catastrophe like this was inevitable and just a matter of time.
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/

[stevewool]

I would have thought a lot more people would be killed in a fire like this.

[Trefor]

I would have thought a lot more people would be killed in a fire like this.

I don't think everyone is accounted for yet. Apparently nobody on the top few floors got out alive :-(

[stevewool]

Well it does not take long before someone shouts terrorist, and I am sure it will not be long until someone blames the government for cuts.

No spray systems​ fitted for fires, surely that is wrong for any buildings like these.

[Trefor]

Ken Livingstone was already there, he was on LBC radio (I think) saying how the cuts to the fire service meant losing more lives. The interviewer then reminded Ken that the fire engines arrived on site 6 minutes after callout. Bringing politics into this is disgusting and typical Red Ken behaviour.

[johncar54]

I was on the investigation onto the Broadwater Farm Riots when a PC (Keith Blakelock) was murdered.

The Fire Brigade went onto the estate, protected by police, to fight a fire in a ground floor shop. It was thought that if not extinguished the apartments above would be set alight and life would be in danger.

We later discovered that the fire protection for the roof/floor was a number of hours. I do not remember how many but certainly sufficient to have allowed the fire to have burnt-out without damaging the property above.

For that reason I cannot understand why in this case the fire could have spread as it did from one floor to the next above.

[fred]

For that reason I cannot understand why in this case the fire could have spread as it did from one floor to the next above.

They seem to be saying that the fire spread fast because the new exterior insulating panels were burning which spread the inferno upwards.
The exterior of a concrete building isn't supposed to catch fire!

[Trefor]

They seem to be saying that the fire spread fast because the new exterior insulating panels were burning which spread the inferno upwards.
The exterior of a concrete building isn't supposed to catch fire!

They have just refurbished with new cladding. If it turns out to not be fireproof there will be people in the dock for this, never mind the management company.

[johncar54]

I just saw on TV. Cladding on fire falling, from the building.

[stevewool]

It's like everything in life, if it can be done cheaper, and save thousands they do it, hoping nothing will ever happen, and most of the time nothing does.

Then this happens.

[grahamw48]

Some of the most valuable real estate in the world, and evidently among the most hazardous if set alight. :NoNo:

[jonnijon]

I think it was zinc cladding, and that like alluminium will burn at the right temperature.

[grahamw48]

Especially if it is sandwiching a type of plastic (as with the Dubai hotel fire, not that long ago).

[Harry T]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

[fred]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

I just read a post where someone says he was listening to an engineer on "This morning" that said the insulation section of the Ali panel is NOT required to be fire proof..
Sounds to me like they think the fire can never get hot enough to melt aluminium..
Blind leading the blind..
Anyway...I`d rather live in a leaking slum dwelling than in one of those damned tower blocks.

[grahamw48]

I would definitely keep a very long rope ladder in my cupboard.
The highest I've lived for any length of time was when I was in Hong Kong... on the 16th floor.

We were able to access the roof on the floor above us though. Even so, it makes you nervous, especially one time when there was a (fortunately minor) fire on the 7th floor, which did create a lot of smoke.

You really do need to have a personal escape plan if you're anything above a couple of floors.

[fred]

Not sure about a "rope" ladder Graham.
I think it might be an idea to hang this piece of kit next to the extinguisher though!!

https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/jetpack.jpg?w=655

[Slip]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

I used to manufacture cleaning products etc. We used to make a lot of paint products for hospital​s which would have fire retardant powder as one of the chemicals added during the manufacturing process. Problem was it wasn't cheap, and with everybody trying to undercut everybody... We soon lost out to somebody who didn't add that to the paint.

[bigmarco]

Apparently the cladding was done mainly for cosmetic purposes, to make the building more pleasing to the eye for the local billionaires.
1400 empty properties in that borough the highest in the country many bought purely for investment purposes by Russian Oligarchs who have no intention of living in them.
It might be an idea to seize 120 of them to temporarily those made homeless until such time as they can be rehoused.

[grahamw48]

Totally agree.

Personally I'd like foreigners to be stopped from buying property in the UK, or at least severe limitations put upon it... as in the Philippines.

It has totally distorted the market, along with 'buy-to-let'.

Ok if you're the one collecting the cash.

Where are our kids going to live, at an affordable price ?

[Tawi2]

One of the victims is a Philippine national, she hasn't been seen since the fire broke out..........

[Tawi2]

Totally agree.

Personally I'd like foreigners to be stopped from buying property in the UK, or at least severe limitations put upon it... as in the Philippines.

It has totally distorted the market, along with 'buy-to-let'.

Ok if you're the one collecting the cash.

Where are our kids going to live, at an affordable price ?

A lot of top-end properties in London. New-builds are bought by foreigners, they don't even stick tenants in, just buy them, hold onto them for a few years and watch the prices climb.

[grahamw48]

It's the same in many cities, not with such exhorbitant rents perhaps, but there are still whole streets owned by Pakistanis and other foreigners out to make a quick buck and pay as little tax (if any) as possible.
Fill them with tenants who have been priced out of the private housing market, who can't get public housing because it's filled with 'refugees', fat people with self-inflicted type 2 diabetes, fatherless kids and drug-users, and who's rent is of course paid for by the council = you and me. :NoNo:

[stevewool]

Who wants to hear what Lily Allen has to say about the fire, and her views on the government and how many are dead and who is to blame?

You would have thought they could have got someone who knows what they are on about, or just a person who is helping out in this crisis.

Well, at least she may bring out a new record later on in the year to help.

[fred]

One of the victims is a Philippine national, she hasn't been seen since the fire broke out..........

There was a Filipino lady on TV 2 days ago saying she was trying to contact her friend "Rose" in the building but no contact.. Perhaps thats the victim they are referring too?

[Tawi2]

No mate, this lady is called Ligaya...

http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/06/15/17/finding-ligaya-moore-authorities-seek-filipina-missing-in-london-fire

[Ako Si Jamie]

Ligaya Moore - last column, third one from the top. A Filipina baby was rescued btw!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/tp-graphic-the-missing-large.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=785

[fred]

No mate, this lady is called Ligaya...

http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/06/15/17/finding-ligaya-moore-authorities-seek-filipina-missing-in-london-fire

OK..Thanks.

[Tawi2]

What is up with some people,what a stupid,stupid thing to do,should have really punished him with a far more severe sentence :NoNo:

Judge Tanweer Ikram said: 'The dignity of the dead must always be respected'
By Stewart Paterson For Mailonline
Published: 18:46, 16 June 2017 | Updated: 22:43, 16 June 2017



A neighbour who posted pictures on Facebook of a dead victim believed to have leapt to his death from the Grenfell Tower inferno has been jailed for three months.
Omega Mwaikambo, 43, was hauled before the courts after posting the distressing picture of the body bag and then close ups of the male victim after opening it on Wednesday morning.
He posted one video and two pictures of the body bag with the man inside and then later five pictures of the victim's face and body after opening it to look inside.
Today at Westminster Magistrates Court he pleaded guilty to two counts of sending by a public communications network an offending, indecent or obscene matter.

The victim.Mwaikambo photographed is believed to have jumped from a higher floor within Grenfell Tower
Mwaikambo, who lives just yards away from the tower, had watched the blaze engulf the building throughout the night and had made cups of tea for firefighters as they battled the blaze.
However later on Wednesday morning he saw a body bag outside his flat and took the photos on his iPad and uploaded them to Facebook.
Prosecutor Tom Little said: 'He lives very close to Grenfell Tower as the court will be aware for the catastrophic fire on June 14.
'He uploaded photographs and video of the deceased inside the body bag and then five photographs of the upper body and the face and the blood that had drained from the body.
Mwaikambo, who lives just yards away from the tower, had watched the blaze engulf the building throughout the night and had made cups of tea for firefighters as they battled the blaze


Mwaikambo was originally arrested near to Latimer Road tube station at around 6pm on Wednesday, June 24, after he posted the distressing images on his Facebook page


'It appears as if that individual might have been someone that jumped from the tower and had not survived and was waiting to be moved to the coroner's mortuary.'
After his arrest he provided the police with the pin to his iPad and phone and the images were taken down from the web.
Mr Little said the offences were high culpability because 'even the fact of the death would not have been known to the family' of the victim at this early stage.
The court heard the victim has yet to be identified and the defendant had been kept in custody for his own safety after his arrest.
Michelle Denney for the defence said 'It was an unusual case' and Mwaikambo, who has not previous convictions, had been making tea for the firefighters.
She said: 'He found the deceased person and was shocked by the fact the body was there and felt a sense of shock that the body was there unattended.'

Sentencing District Judge Tanweer Ikram said: 'What you have done by uploading those photos shows absolutely no respect to this poor victim. To show his face as he lies there is beyond words'
The defendant had tried to find someone to come and help but 'there was not one else in sight' and took the photos to 'show how the victim was being treated' and get someone's attention.
She said: 'He was not someone that has gone to the scene to look at what's going on in some macabre way.'
She added her client had witnessed a lot of the terrible things throughout the night, it was an 'error in judgement' to post the images and 'would not have done so had he not witness some of the traumatic events that unfolded'.
Ms Denney said: 'He accepts he should have taken them down and he accepts posting the images was ill conceived.
'He apologises to the victim's family any all the other victims for what he has done.'
Sentencing District Judge Tanweer Ikram said: 'The whole country, if not the whole world, has been shocked by what has taken place in the last few days in relation to the fire at Grenfell Tower.


District Judge Tanweer Ikram jailed.Omega Mwaikambo for three months
'The horror is not to be underestimated.
'The dignity of the dead must always be respected.
'What you have done by uploading those photos shows absolutely no respect to this poor victim. To show his face as he lies there is beyond words.
'That view is shared in the horror and disgust that is shown by those people that have uploaded messages on your profile.
'It is an aggravating feature that when people said to you 'This is really sick, just call the police' and 'call the cops rather than post photos', you didn't.
'You didn't remove the photos.
'These offences are so serious that a community order or financial penalty would not mark the seriousness of the offence.'
The judge accepted Mwaikambo had no previous convictions and was remorseful for what he did, but with the events of the fire the case was 'unprecedented'.
Mwaikambo, of Testerton Walk, was given six weeks for each charge to run consecutively and ordered to pay a victim surcharge of £115 and and costs of £85...

[Slip]

I can understand the curiosity why one may want to peek at the dead body... But not to take photos, let alone put on Facebook. If that popped up on my news feed from one of my friends, let's just say they wouldn't be on my Facebook friends list anymore.

[Ako Si Jamie]

What is up with some people,what a stupid,stupid thing to do,should have really punished him with a far more severe sentence :NoNo:

A neighbour who posted pictures on Facebook of a dead victim believed to have leapt to his death from the Grenfell Tower inferno has been jailed for three months.
Omega Mwaikambo, 43, was hauled before the courts after posting the distressing picture of the body bag and then close ups of the male victim after opening it on Wednesday morning.
He posted one video and two pictures of the body bag with the man inside and then later five pictures of the victim's face and body after opening it to look inside.
Today at Westminster Magistrates Court he pleaded guilty to two counts of sending by a public communications network an offending, indecent or obscene matter.



He should have been punished because it was a sick thing to do but a custodial sentence? Is he really a danger to the public? Now the taxpayer has to stump up for his 'lodgings'.

It would have been more appropriate to give him Community Service or get him to help clean up the area around Grenfell Tower.

[Ako Si Jamie]

Judge Tanweer Ikram said: 'The dignity of the dead must always be respected'
It's a pity dignity and respect wasn't shown when they were alive eh Judge Ikram?

[grahamw48]

Obviously Facebook ignore such laws... considering some of the horrific pictures (dead and deformed babies, aborted foetuses, road accident victims, etc) regularly posted by some Filipinos... sorry to say.

I am tired of reporting such highly offensive material to FB, and them coming back with their usual pathetic response, that it doesn't contravene any of their rules.

Unbelievable. :NoNo:

[Ako Si Jamie]

The greasy weasels at Kensington Council has £274 MILLION in RESERVE and not even 1% of that could have been spent on sprinkler systems and the better cladding. Outrageous! :mad:

[johncar54]

The greasy weasels at Kensington Council has £274 MILLION in RESERVE and not even 1% of that could have been spent on sprinkler systems and the better cladding. Outrageous! :mad:


I appreciate this might be a lie, but then it would be so easy to prove that it was, that it is likely to be true:

[/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4609382/Grenfell-residents-did-not-want-sprinklers-council-claims.html"]http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4609382/Grenfell-residents-did-not-want-sprinklers-council-claims.html


Sprinklers were not fitted in the Grenfell Tower because residents did not want the disruption of fitting them, council bosses have claimed.

Nick Paget-Brown, the Tory leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council, said there was not a 'collective view' among residents in favour of sprinklers.

For the past 40 plus years I have fitted smoke alarms in all the places I have lived.

I now live on the 7th, top floor, of an apartment block. I fitted 3 alarms within my apartment when I moved in.

Following the fire in Grenfell Tower, I have now fitted an alarm outside my front door in the communal corridor and another on the staircase.

I did not ask the community of owners to do it. I saw the danger so I reacted. If I lived in a council property I would have done the same.

Jamie, it is so easy to jump to blaming others whenever anything goes wrong, but sometimes we should take responsiblty too
.

[grahamw48]

As usual the whole situation is riddled with ignorance and hypocrisy... and the usual rent a mob rabble are out for blood.

There are some people in this world who are just too stupid to live in anything other than a cave, who think rules and regulations only apply to others, and are the first to claim 'victim' status.

This tragic accident has been used for personal gain and political advantage, as far as I can see... before any real facts are known. :NoNo:

[Ako Si Jamie]

I appreciate this might be a lie, but then it would be so easy to prove that it was, that it is likely to be true:

[/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4609382/Grenfell-residents-did-not-want-sprinklers-council-claims.html"]http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4609382/Grenfell-residents-did-not-want-sprinklers-council-claims.html



For the past 40 plus years I have fitted smoke alarms in all the places I have lived.

I now live on the 7th, top floor, of an apartment block. I fitted 3 alarms within my apartment when I moved in.

Following the fire in Grenfell Tower, I have now fitted an alarm outside my front door in the communal corridor and another on the staircase.

I did not ask the community of owners to do it. I saw the danger so I reacted. If I lived in a council property I would have done the same.

Jamie, it is so easy to jump to blaming others whenever anything goes wrong, but sometimes we should take responsiblty too
.

Don't shoot the messenger. I've had my run-ins with the council and I can tell you for a fact they treat their tenants with contempt. Safety check of my flat was arranged. I took a day off work and they didn't even come. Not to mention the time they broke into my flat when I was in the Philippines despite them being told I wasn't going to be there. I had arranged an appointment for my return and they just ignored it. Just like they did with my numerous emails of complaint. They changed the locks too so at 11pm after a gruelling flight back, I couldn't get in. Had to get a taxi to the other side of the city to pick up a new set of keys. I could go on.

But my woes were nothing compared to what's happened recently in London though.

[stevewool]

Just cam back from a weekend trip in London, and the hotel we was sopping at did have people fro this tower stopping for as long as it takes.
Now this hotel is not cheap per night but its a big world named and its near where this happened.
But the press have found out and is outside the hotel and wanting pictures and interviews, plus the people who are housed there are wanting everything, and i mean everything.
Breakfast , Dinner and tea, plus every tv program thats going , plus they are wanting excess to the swimming pools and saunas .

[SimonH]

How does it work with council owned properties with regards to insurance, I know mines up for renewal next month and it's costing me in the region of £700

[grahamw48]

Contents only of course.

The council have their own discounted scheme for tenants, if they wish to avail of it.

[grahamw48]

Just cam back from a weekend trip in London, and the hotel we was sopping at did have people fro this tower stopping for as long as it takes.
Now this hotel is not cheap per night but its a big world named and its near where this happened.
But the press have found out and is outside the hotel and wanting pictures and interviews, plus the people who are housed there are wanting everything, and i mean everything.
Breakfast , Dinner and tea, plus every tv program thats going , plus they are wanting excess to the swimming pools and saunas .

The press... and certain politicians are stirring up all of this hatred. :NoNo:

I have stopped watching and listening to the news at the moment. The media are just so sickening. :mad: (Haven't read newspapers for years of course. Don't need to pay to read nonsense).

[Slip]

How does it work with council owned properties with regards to insurance, I know mines up for renewal next month and it's costing me in the region of £700

How big is your property :Erm:

My contents and buildings insurance combined it only come to around £200 for a 3 bedroom property.

[SimonH]

How big is your property :Erm:

My contents and buildings insurance combined it only come to around £200 for a 3 bedroom property.


Not that big, 4 bed detached. I presume the premium is so high because of the area and rebuild costs :Erm:

[Slip]

Not that big, 4 bed detached. I presume the premium is so high because of the area and rebuild costs :Erm:

I guess. Seems very high though.

[Tawi2]

Small wonder the true number of victims of the fire will never be known. Yesterday, SKY News interviewed a Filipina with her face obscured, who, with friends, had been sub-letting a flat. She ran through the usual "I am here to make money for my children back in the Philippines, I can't go to the authorities", etc...etc...etc.