Id cards for non eu nationals

[andypaul]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3127696.stm

Saying in nov 08 that they will start to make no eu citzens get an id card when


What about foreign nationals wanting to enter the UK? From November 2008 they will have to apply for "biometric residence permits" or "biometric visas" and their details will be entered into the national identity database. The government also wants all foreign nationals living in the UK to have identity cards and will make anyone applying to extend their stay register biometric details, from November 2008. The aim is that 90% of foreign nationals in the UK will have ID cards by 2015.


So basically if you apply for ILR after nov 2008 it looks like you get an ID card and im sure extra costs:Brick:

Which makes sense as was it not last year biometrics came in for visa apllicants in phill?

[scott&ligaya]

Don,t know about the Phils but when we applied for Ligaya's spouse visa last month in Hong Kong she had her fingerprints scanned and her photograph scanned. The machines have been in place since late 2006 when I got my new biometric passport, apart from what they will charge extra for the ID I see know problem with the ID card, we have had ID cards in HK for years, and every service provider for just about anything uses it for communication so the only issue is if you lose it, the process of getting another one is quite rigid,quick but rigid.

[fred]

The residence card here has the eye scan thing and the thumb print thing..
Might only be for pretend though?

[andypaul]

Sounds great on paper. Problem is one large database will contain all the info needed to rip you off. The costs will be huge to run and defend it. If someone walks into a car showroom and uses it will they have to test eyes and finger prints if so how will it be double checked? What if the database is breached and details altered how do you quickly reprove who you are?

[scott&ligaya]

yes AndyPaul you are right, the biggest issue is data security especially as it seems any old civil servant has access to files and leaves lap tops lying around.

[LadyJ]

I used to hear from the church that one day people will have to get chip or barcode mark on our forehead or handwrist. No more plastic ID's that can easily get lost.:yikes:

[KeithD]

Data security shouldn't be a problem.....if the software is written correctly with multiple copies encryted differently, and constantly cross-checked....however I haven't come across any government who understands it yet!!

[Mrs.JMajor]

I used to hear from the church that one day people will have to get chip or barcode mark on our forehead or handwrist. No more plastic ID's that can easily get lost.:yikes:

:icon_lol:---------------:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

I thought it Doesn't apply to people on a 'spouse visa'.

[andypaul]

Data security shouldn't be a problem.....if the software is written correctly with multiple copies encryted differently, and constantly cross-checked....however I haven't come across any government who understands it yet!!


Problem is just about any code can and will be broken, history shows.

Its now possible to break just about every wirless encryption method with ease.
The stronger the encryption the more storage space and processing power will be needed with this imense about of data (if what i read they want to be stored eventually)

But the weak link is all ways human beings who will some way either leave a backdoor open for some reason or leave another way to breach security.

The mintue Blackhats know there is a database with all this info they will be looking for a way to the information as the rewards and kudos would be HUGE.

Centralizing information like this is just a no no as far as im concerned.

Like Mr Admin says the UK Goverment has such a poor record with IT projects this this:NoNo:

[andypaul]

I thought it Doesn't apply to people on a 'spouse visa'.

Seems to mention those who renew or extending there visa not sure what type. So any with FLR or ILR may cop it.

[KeithD]

eVEN

[KeithD]

Even if they get your details by hacking, and most are already all over the place online anyway, they need your eye & finger.....so watch out for someone sneaking up on you with a knife and tweezers....

[andypaul]

Even if they get your details by hacking, and most are already all over the place online anyway, they need your eye & finger.....so watch out for someone sneaking up on you with a knife and tweezers....

lol

the one scenario is that some of the info is changed its all noughts and ones once its data.

So the bio info is of someone else but your details sounds far fetched but fraudsters are always at the cutting edge of technolgy.

So if you claim oh they have fiddled with me details how do you prove it with out a lengthy court battle?

[darren-b]

Some more information was published today.


From 25 November 2008 we will begin to issue identity cards to foreign nationals applying for further leave to remain in the United Kingdom under certain categories. The first cards will be issued to migrants applying as:


a student; or
the husband, wife, civil partner or unmarried partner of someone holding permanent residence in the United Kingdom.



So everyone coming in on a fiancee visa is going to have the additional hassle of having their biometrics captured when they apply for FLR.

[andypaul]

Some more information was published today.




So everyone coming in on a fiancee visa is going to have the additional hassle of having their biometrics captured when they apply for FLR.

Most i guess within the last 6 months or so will have had to give there bio metric details hen they applied.

All makes sense now why it suddenly appeared.

Then they can use the excuse that so many thousands of people use it. Would be to expensive to cancel the project etc.

[joebloggs]

Some more information was published today.

So everyone coming in on a fiancee visa is going to have the additional hassle of having their biometrics captured when they apply for FLR.

i thought they are already taking bio metric details when you apply for a visa at the embassy, so no need to take them again :Erm:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/biometricvisa

[andypaul]

i thought they are already taking bio metric details when you apply for a visa at the embassy, so no need to take them again :Erm:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/biometricvisa

Maybe they say they taking them as a polite way to say they are checking them befoe granting FLR etc.

That straight away surely puts up the costs and means it cant be all done by post?

[darren-b]

Maybe they say they taking them as a polite way to say they are checking them befoe granting FLR etc.

That straight away surely puts up the costs and means it cant be all done by post?

Going by the pilot I think that's the idea - they check your identity again before they issue you with the visa/identity card. And yes even if you apply by post at some point you'll have to go in to have your biometrics captured again.

[andypaul]

Going by the pilot I think that's the idea - they check your identity again before they issue you with the visa/identity card. And yes even if you apply by post at some point you'll have to go in to have your biometrics captured again.

So going by that people should budget just a little more for flr if going by the difference in ILR via post and walk in. Then you would need ID and Passport surely if you travel or need for proof of ID as most Phill passports untill very recently (i think they just changed colour to maroon my wife mentioned when her sister got a passport recently.) were not capable of storing any data. Or would they expect you to update your Phill passport as well?

[joebloggs]

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2008/dependantchangeflrsflrm

We will not require biometrics for the main applicant or dependants for postal applications posted on or after 26 July. However, the requirement will continue for applications made at the Croydon public enquiry office until we start issuing identity cards to successful applicants from 25 November 2008.

why would they need to take biometrics again, it doesn't make sense :Erm:.

anyway end of oct i'm applying for naturalisation for the misses, after her medicine exam, as her phils passport expires end of oct :NoNo: and might as well get her a brit on instead.

[andypaul]

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2008/dependantchangeflrsflrm

We will not require biometrics for the main applicant or dependants for postal applications posted on or after 26 July. However, the requirement will continue for applications made at the Croydon public enquiry office until we start issuing identity cards to successful applicants from 25 November 2008.

why would they need to take biometrics again, it doesn't make sense :Erm:.

anyway end of oct i'm applying for naturalisation for the misses, after her medicine exam, as her phils passport expires end of oct :NoNo: and might as well get her a brit on instead.

umm British goverment with data, what do they normally do with it?

Lose it or destroy it by accident:D

[5olidsnake]

Identity card plans (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3127696.stm)


How much will ID cards cost?

The initial fee for a standalone ID card, in 2009 and 2010, will be £30 or less, the government has said. But that may increase over time.

[andypaul]

Identity card plans (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3127696.stm)

I feel that may rise a little and /or be delayed

[joebloggs]

I feel that may rise a little and /or be delayed

yes but only if your'e british :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andypaul]

Maybe we will subsdized the early adopters but i still wonder if they will not have supply issues or security issues. Which either puts ack the launch or at least the real time that people get them in numbers in there hands for use.

Just a feeling in my bones

[johncar54]

On the cost of ID cards.

In Spain they cost 6.80 euros. A passport costs 16.95 euros, so why will a UK ID card cost so much more? And why do Brits living in Spain have to pay almost 200 euros to renew their passport ? (if one lives outside, UK passports must be renewed in the country where we are living)

On a general note about ID cards. Until April last year all non Spanish living in Span had to have a Residence Card now Europeans cannot get one; non European must have one. So now I should carry my original passport, not a copy, whilst my wife has a a handy credit card size ID card. Maybe the UK gov have realised that a passport being carried all the time will need replacing often and at 200€ a throw 'Its a nice little earner' so they have not made any protest about the change.

[joebloggs]

So now I should carry my original passport, not a copy, whilst my wife has a a handy credit card size ID card. Maybe the UK gov have realised that a passport being carried all the time will need replacing often and at 200€ a throw 'Its a nice little earner' so they have not made any protest about the change.

the idea of the ID card in the uk, is that everyone will have one and should be carried with you at all times to prove who you are..

its not to replace a passport, which shouldn't be carried with you at all time, ID card is relatively a lot cheaper and easier to produce than a passport :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[andypaul]

the idea of the ID card in the uk, is that everyone will have one and should be carried with you at all times to prove who you are..

its not to replace a passport, which shouldn't be carried with you at all time, ID card is relatively a lot cheaper and easier to produce than a passport :xxgrinning--00xx3:


The card it self maybe once in mass production but the process and the means to read and write to them, adminstration for the cards and databases are all possible places where the wonderful goverment agencies will find a place to make money dissapear the I.T side of the Civill service appear to have a knack of finding some way to make any project they do a failure in some aspect.

I work for a firm which has many contracts with various goverment agencies and our sales man love it as they consistently have no idea of what they need or how not to spend huge amounts of money in our direction.

When people from non UK parts of our firm either deal or work with the OGC and further down the chain they are shocked compared to what they have in many of their home countries.

[joebloggs]

your misses got citizenship yet andy ?

i'm applying for the misses soon as shes taken her plab exam in london end of next month

i'm not hanging around til next year when they start this 'probationary citizenship' :censored: and i'm wondering what the fee will be, and what else is lined up. i think it could be the death of ILR as we know it, and it will be probationary citizenship, and maybe only valid for x years, so you have to become a citizen or apply and pay again. that will get rid of the people in no mansland who have ILR, and are not a temp visitor or not being a citizen.

[andypaul]

your misses got citizenship yet andy ?

i'm applying for the misses soon as shes taken her plab exam in london end of next month

i'm not hanging around til next year when they start this 'probationary citizenship' :censored: and i'm wondering what the fee will be, and what else is lined up. i think it could be the death of ILR as we know it, and it will be probationary citizenship, and maybe only valid for x years, so you have to become a citizen or apply and pay again. that will get rid of the people in no mansland who have ILR, and are not a temp visitor or not being a citizen.

Nope she can apply soon 3 years and one day i think it is.

The great saving drive for the next fee is still in progress:rolleyes:

In principle i agree with the become a Brit or move on. But i know of examples of couples where one stays a motherland citzen for reasons such as when the Indians were hounded out of Africa. Many of the generation who were hounded up are some of the people who love and respect the UK the most.
Left massive mental scars with people and many people found it hard to just be one or the other. Also many indians untill quite recently could either be British or Indian so one kept the indian citzenship up just in case required.

I would not be surprised if some phill couples in the UK do this one stays a Phill with ilr and the other gets British citzenship for various reasons.

[johncar54]

the idea of the ID card in the uk, is that everyone will have one and should be carried with you at all times to prove who you are..

its not to replace a passport, which shouldn't be carried with you at all time, ID card is relatively a lot cheaper and easier to produce than a passport :xxgrinning--00xx3:


Maybe I did not make it clear. I live in Spain where carrying an ID is compulsory and the only acceptable ID the Brits have is their passport, so they / we must carry it. That applies to people living in Spain and visitors but as I said many people 'break the law' and carry a copy or an alternative document. In most circumstances we get by with that.

We used to all have a Residencia card but unfortunately they changed the law. An ID card is so easy to carry so convenient to have. Not having one is a problem.

The ID card the Spanish have will allow entry to various countries including UK and Ireland but the point I was making was if an ID costs around a fiver why should a UK one be so expensive ?

[aromulus]

The ID card the Spanish have will allow entry to various countries including UK and Ireland but the point I was making was if an ID costs around a fiver why should a UK one be so expensive ?

I guess it is for the same reasons as to why cars, food, books, clothes, shoes, airport taxes, income tax, Council tax, rents, mortgages, fuel, the air you breathe and basically everything else are more expensive.....

Rip off Britain....:NoNo:

[darren-b]

I would not be surprised if some phill couples in the UK do this one stays a Phill with ilr and the other gets British citzenship for various reasons.

As you can be dual filipino/british I'd personally be surprised if they didn't both apply because it only another £80 for a joint application (£735 rather than £655).