what to do next

[phillip]

im sure you all must be fed up with me by now ,i have a gut feeling the appeal will not succeed,I dont want to waste up to a year just waiting only to be told the decison is upheld.
i want to visit the philippines and marry there as soon as possible.my question is can we apply for spouse visa while the appeal process is under way.also what can you advise so i can get frances here in the shortest time possible.once again i thank you for you support. phillip

[andypaul]

If i were you and not sure the appeal will be succesful then withdraw the appeal or never start it in the first place.

We are not fed up of either of you Phillip and Frances we just want to help you be together.

[phillip]

so do i take it from that we cant apply for spouse while were appealing?

[andypaul]

so do i take it from that we cant apply for spouse while were appealing?

To be honest i dont know others may know for sure.

But I would take legal advice and ask UK visas to be totally sure you dont want to cause another problem.

[5olidsnake]

thats true
We are not fed up of either of you Phillip and Frances we just want to help you be together.

its natural anxiety to ask a million questions in your situation

sometimes the right ideas come from someone from the outside, who has not got things rushing around in their head.

regards martin

[phillip]

it makes me me so sad when the eco says she thinks the relationship is not genuine just because she could not contact the caterer to verify the document was genuine.we are in constant contact like telephoning each other 4 and 5 times a day and chatting on yahoo for hours .it seems our dream my never come true just because of that one lady.

[andypaul]

it makes me me so sad when the eco says she thinks the relationship is not genuine just because she could not contact the caterer to verify the document was genuine.we are in constant contact like telephoning each other 4 and 5 times a day and chatting on yahoo for hours .it seems our dream my never come true just because of that one lady.

It will get sorted just seems hard at the moment.

Have you had any ideas on way of proving to the ECO that the caterer was going to do the job?

WIther a letter from the lady or a sworn afidavit (or what ever its called?) with a solictor?

[benb]

it makes me me so sad when the eco says she thinks the relationship is not genuine just because she could not contact the caterer to verify the document was genuine.we are in constant contact like telephoning each other 4 and 5 times a day and chatting on yahoo for hours .it seems our dream my never come true just because of that one lady.

Don't give up mate. It takes time. Searching around, spouse visa seem to have better chances. Try not to let it affect your work too. Your phone bills must be sky high! - it might be cheaper to fly to the Philippines. :rolleyes:

Best Wishes

[nigel]

We're not fed up pal!:xxgrinning--00xx3: Hang in there we'll sort this out!:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[5olidsnake]

i think you have answered your own question
it makes me me so sad when the eco says she thinks the relationship is not genuine just because she could not contact the caterer to verify the document was genuine.we are in constant contact like telephoning each other 4 and 5 times a day and chatting on yahoo for hours .it seems our dream my never come true just because of that one lady.


prove the relationship is genuine, with a marriage certificate

[phillip]

all i have will be a letter from the caterer stating the document was genuine.you see she caters part time for local weddings and funenal teas,shes a very small operation no headed notepaper or vat no.if only i had gone to a big hotel ,i hope others will learn from my mistake.

[andypaul]

all i have will be a letter from the caterer stating the document was genuine.you see she caters part time for local weddings and funenal teas,shes a very small operation no headed notepaper or vat no.if only i had gone to a big hotel ,i hope others will learn from my mistake.

Has the ECO seen this signed letter?

Surely they must realise many people certainly in todays climate (credit crunch etc) will not want the Ritz.

Sorry for asking again is this the only objection they have?

Didn't you say the Father of your Church had also written saying he was due to marry you?

Calling a reglious man a liar is a bit harsh.

[phillip]

if any of you know for sure if we can apply for spouse visa while the appeal is going on please let me know

[phillip]

yes a letter from the priest aswell.also said she had damaged her credabilty by not mentioning me last year when applying for a visit visa to visit her aunt who was sponsering her

[phillip]

just a thought as we had every single requirement asked of us ,it was the eco who chose not to belive 1 document wes genuine,do you think we have any legel rights against the embassy,after all everything was there ,there calling me a lier.with no proof?

[KeithD]

if any of you know for sure if we can apply for spouse visa while the appeal is going on please let me know

As far as I remember from Pete posting something a couple of years back, you can do it, but I don't think it is advisable. They would know you have two apps in at once, and may count against you in trying to get around the first failure by any means possible.

[benb]

As far as I remember from Pete posting something a couple of years back, you can do it, but I don't think it is advisable. They would know you have two apps in at once, and may count against you in trying to get around the first failure by any means possible.

But I'm sure that you can get married first in the Philippines while the appeal is going on. I do not see an issue. I agree that the second application should wait until the outcome of the appeal.

Cheers

[KeithD]

If what he is telling us is 100% and it is only the 'proof of marriage' that he failed at, and NOTHING else, then get married in the Phil. Then you have the proof of marriage + with the Spouse Visa, the missus can work here from day 1......and start to enjoy those lovely taxes :)

If you plan on doing that though, it would not even be worth the effort of appealing.

Like I said earlier, you then have another wedding in the UK to be blessed in church for your family.

[vbkelly]

just a thought as we had every single requirement asked of us ,it was the eco who chose not to belive 1 document wes genuine,do you think we have any legel rights against the embassy,after all everything was there ,there calling me a lier.with no proof?

my friend was denied to her spouse visa but the appealed was take a month just need to provide the evidence that they want it,anyway my friend husband is disabled and he live in the council house in shieffield and he claim a government support and a little bit of his personal insurance...so phillip don't lose your hope

[Piamed]

If what he is telling us is 100% and it is only the 'proof of marriage' that he failed at, and NOTHING else, then get married in the Phil. Then you have the proof of marriage + with the Spouse Visa, the missus can work here from day 1......and start to enjoy those lovely taxes :)

If you plan on doing that though, it would not even be worth the effort of appealing.

Like I said earlier, you then have another wedding in the UK to be blessed in church for your family.

I think the other big factor was that they did not understand why Frances did not mention Philip in her application last year. How could he address that in an appeal? I'm not certain.

[Sconnie]

Frances was visiting her aunt and her aunt was the sponsor for the visit visa, was there any reason to mention Philip when applying for the visit visa ? is this not a valid arguement ?

[IainBusby]

But I'm sure that you can get married first in the Philippines while the appeal is going on. I do not see an issue. I agree that the second application should wait until the outcome of the appeal.
Cheers

I think you need to either appeal or get married and then apply for a settlement (spouse) visa. I think you could be in danger of confusing the issue and making it take even longer to resolve. I mean, if you appeal and then marry, if the appeal succeeds or fails will make no difference after that because she would not then (in my opinion) be entitled to come to the UK as a fiancee if you are by then already married. I also think that if there were 2 outstanding applications, one ongoing and one under appeal, this would confuse things even more.
Iain.

[Piamed]

Frances was visiting her aunt and her aunt was the sponsor for the visit visa, was there any reason to mention Philip when applying for the visit visa ? is this not a valid arguement ?

True but unfortunately, it has now raised suspicion in the ECOs mind. I'm not really sure how that can be addressed. The caterer issue can easily be dealt with I reckon.

[grate-britte]

Frances and Phillip, I do not have a long experience of the visa process but I have some experience of Court procedures and how matters are dealt with there.
I assume you have not appealed yet, but I would tend to be more in favour of making an appeal rather than to marry in the Philippines and applying for a spouse visa.
To marry in the Philippines you will need 22 days to obtain a certificate of no impediment in the UK, then about 20 days in the Philippines for the marriage process, about 10 days to get the marriage certificate and apply for spouse visa, then 90 days to get the spouse visa. I would say in total, a minimum of 142 days, about 5 months.
To take both routes would appear to adopt a conflictual approach and the Embassy is likely to be reactive. I would feel quite sure about advising against that.
At all times dealings with the Embassy should be cooperative, polite and open.

If you appeal the judge would focus on the grounds for the refusal. I think the two grounds are not too difficult to overturn.
You would need to provide stronger evidence that the wedding arrangements had been made using papers that are dated prior to the application. It may be useful to see a solicitor in this respect who may also be able to write a covering letter to state that he has examined material and inquired of parties who were concerned with the wedding arrangements. The contention that the marriage arrangements were fake is an acceptable basis for refusing the visa so it is necessary to produce solid additional documentation for the judge to be able to decide they were not fake.
Concerning the notion you intended to see Frances during her visit to your aunt. Well, the visit visa was not granted and your intentions at the time are really private to you. The fact the visa was not granted was stated on the fiancee visa application so you did your duty. Now this idea that you were hoping to see Frances during a [refused] visit is really not within the government grounds for refusal. A visit visa for an aunt is, these days, a slightly tenuous family link and it happened the visa was refused - fair do's. Visit visas are a bit the luck of the draw, but this is past history and the refusal was declared on the fiancee visa application.

How long does an appeal take to go through? I think it can depend a bit on if they want to be nice to you, so I would recommend that all paperwork submitted is very politely arranged.

Hope this helps, there are lots of very knowledgeable people posting on this site so worth thinking over carefully what everyone says, but don't get cross with it all.

[IainBusby]

Frances and Phillip, I do not have a long experience of the visa process but I have some experience of Court procedures and how matters are dealt with there.
I assume you have not appealed yet, but I would tend to be more in favour of making an appeal rather than to marry in the Philippines and applying for a spouse visa.
To marry in the Philippines you will need 22 days to obtain a certificate of no impediment in the UK, then about 20 days in the Philippines for the marriage process, about 10 days to get the marriage certificate and apply for spouse visa, then 90 days to get the spouse visa. I would say in total, a minimum of 142 days, about 5 months.
To take both routes would appear to adopt a conflictual approach and the Embassy is likely to be reactive. I would feel quite sure about advising against that.
At all times dealings with the Embassy should be cooperative, polite and open.

If you appeal the judge would focus on the grounds for the refusal. I think the two grounds are not too difficult to overturn.
You would need to provide stronger evidence that the wedding arrangements had been made using papers that are dated prior to the application. It may be useful to see a solicitor in this respect who may also be able to write a covering letter to state that he has examined material and inquired of parties who were concerned with the wedding arrangements. The contention that the marriage arrangements were fake is an acceptable basis for refusing the visa so it is necessary to produce solid additional documentation for the judge to be able to decide they were not fake.
Concerning the notion you intended to see Frances during her visit to your aunt. Well, the visit visa was not granted and your intentions at the time are really private to you. The fact the visa was not granted was stated on the fiancee visa application so you did your duty. Now this idea that you were hoping to see Frances during a [refused] visit is really not within the government grounds for refusal. A visit visa for an aunt is, these days, a slightly tenuous family link and it happened the visa was refused - fair do's. Visit visas are a bit the luck of the draw, but this is past history and the refusal was declared on the fiancee visa application.

How long does an appeal take to go through? I think it can depend a bit on if they want to be nice to you, so I would recommend that all paperwork submitted is very politely arranged.

Hope this helps, there are lots of very knowledgeable people posting on this site so worth thinking over carefully what everyone says, but don't get cross with it all.

Great Post, I think this covers all of the bases for you Phillip. I also think, assuming that you do appeal, that somewhere in the wording of your fiancee's appeal when addressing the issue of the refused visit visa application on which she failed to declare the fact that she had a bf in the UK who she might also manage to visit whilst in the UK, the words "TOTALLY IRRELEVENT" should appear. :cwm23:
Iain.

[Sconnie]

I agree a very helpful post and your's too Iain.

[joebloggs]

yes i think you can apply for a spouse visa, maybe not a good idea thou, but if you've wed b4 the judge decides, then he could ask the embassy to issue her with a spouse visa instead.

i would appeal, but i would make sure the evidence i submitted would not lead to a refusal, as mentioned by a previous poster, i would get a solicitor to write a letter, stating he has contacted the caterer and the document supplied are genuine, and also your other evidence is genuine concerning your planned wedding and get him to certify them docs, just give them solid evidence they cannot argue with.

as for your g/f not mentioning you, i don't think it's enough reason on its own to refuse her an app, its just another reason to put down with the 'fake' caterer excuse. i don't think it asks you on the visa form if you have a relationship with anyone else in the uk, maybe your g/f didn't think she needed to mention it, as she was not asked :Erm:

if your evidence is good enough, then the a case worker at the embassy might over rule it, so you could have your visa pretty quick, if not then you would have to wait longer for the AIT to decide. but with the right evidence i think you got a good chance, as something like 66% of appeals are won :rolleyes:

[KeithD]

As Joe mentions, the appeals success rate is pretty high, however this does differ dramatically between countries.

Although it won't be 'written policy' by the embassy, a pattern has emerged over the years. If they have any doubt they'll deny a visa, the majority of folk trying to 'fiddle' a way into Britain would then tend to fall off the radar. Those who are honest and just messed up with the first application will generally appeal or go the Spouse route.

This is a simple but effective way of weeding out some of the crap applications, as you can bet that of the 100% refusals, they do not have 100% appeals.

[Piamed]

Frances and Phillip, I do not have a long experience of the visa process but I have some experience of Court procedures and how matters are dealt with there.
I assume you have not appealed yet, but I would tend to be more in favour of making an appeal rather than to marry in the Philippines and applying for a spouse visa.
To marry in the Philippines you will need 22 days to obtain a certificate of no impediment in the UK, then about 20 days in the Philippines for the marriage process, about 10 days to get the marriage certificate and apply for spouse visa, then 90 days to get the spouse visa. I would say in total, a minimum of 142 days, about 5 months.
To take both routes would appear to adopt a conflictual approach and the Embassy is likely to be reactive. I would feel quite sure about advising against that.
At all times dealings with the Embassy should be cooperative, polite and open.

If you appeal the judge would focus on the grounds for the refusal. I think the two grounds are not too difficult to overturn.
You would need to provide stronger evidence that the wedding arrangements had been made using papers that are dated prior to the application. It may be useful to see a solicitor in this respect who may also be able to write a covering letter to state that he has examined material and inquired of parties who were concerned with the wedding arrangements. The contention that the marriage arrangements were fake is an acceptable basis for refusing the visa so it is necessary to produce solid additional documentation for the judge to be able to decide they were not fake.
Concerning the notion you intended to see Frances during her visit to your aunt. Well, the visit visa was not granted and your intentions at the time are really private to you. The fact the visa was not granted was stated on the fiancee visa application so you did your duty. Now this idea that you were hoping to see Frances during a [refused] visit is really not within the government grounds for refusal. A visit visa for an aunt is, these days, a slightly tenuous family link and it happened the visa was refused - fair do's. Visit visas are a bit the luck of the draw, but this is past history and the refusal was declared on the fiancee visa application.

How long does an appeal take to go through? I think it can depend a bit on if they want to be nice to you, so I would recommend that all paperwork submitted is very politely arranged.

Hope this helps, there are lots of very knowledgeable people posting on this site so worth thinking over carefully what everyone says, but don't get cross with it all.


Great Post, I think this covers all of the bases for you Phillip. I also think, assuming that you do appeal, that somewhere in the wording of your fiancee's appeal when addressing the issue of the refused visit visa application on which she failed to declare the fact that she had a bf in the UK who she might also manage to visit whilst in the UK, the words "TOTALLY IRRELEVENT" should appear. :cwm23:
Iain.


I agree a very helpful post and your's too Iain.


yes i think you can apply for a spouse visa, maybe not a good idea thou, but if you've wed b4 the judge decides, then he could ask the embassy to issue her with a spouse visa instead.

i would appeal, but i would make sure the evidence i submitted would not lead to a refusal, as mentioned by a previous poster, i would get a solicitor to write a letter, stating he has contacted the caterer and the document supplied are genuine, and also your other evidence is genuine concerning your planned wedding and get him to certify them docs, just give them solid evidence they cannot argue with.

as for your g/f not mentioning you, i don't think it's enough reason on its own to refuse her an app, its just another reason to put down with the 'fake' caterer excuse. i don't think it asks you on the visa form if you have a relationship with anyone else in the uk, maybe your g/f didn't think she needed to mention it, as she was not asked :Erm:

if your evidence is good enough, then the a case worker at the embassy might over rule it, so you could have your visa pretty quick, if not then you would have to wait longer for the AIT to decide. but with the right evidence i think you got a good chance, as something like 66% of appeals are won :rolleyes:


As Joe mentions, the appeals success rate is pretty high, however this does differ dramatically between countries.

Although it won't be 'written policy' by the embassy, a pattern has emerged over the years. If they have any doubt they'll deny a visa, the majority of folk trying to 'fiddle' a way into Britain would then tend to fall off the radar. Those who are honest and just messed up with the first application will generally appeal or go the Spouse route.

This is a simple but effective way of weeding out some of the crap applications, as you can bet that of the 100% refusals, they do not have 100% appeals.

I agree with all that has been said here! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[phillip]

this is what she said i quote
in summary,as evedence that you intend to get married you have submitted a letter from "outside catering",however i am satisfiedto a high degree of probability that it is not a genuine docment.you claim to have been in a relationship with mr phillip------since august 2007,yet when you made an application for a visitor visain december 2007,you made no mention of having a partner in the uk.during your interview,you were unable to provideany credible explanation for these discrepancies with your application.
in light of the above,i am not satisfied that you are seeking leave for marriage and /or intend to live permanently with your spouse after the marriage or civil partnership.
therefore i refuse your application.


what do the experts think do we have a chance in appeal. or would you advise us to marry there in oct and apply again for spouse, if you think we have chance in appeal frances and i could do with some help espeically with a letter.
thanks again everyone for your help

[KeithD]

We've already answered all that Phillip, it is up to you what you do next. With the information we've all offered it is easy to prove her statement wrong in many ways.

[keithAngel]

this is what she said i quote
in summary,as evedence that you intend to get married you have submitted a letter from "outside catering",however i am satisfiedto a high degree of probability that it is not a genuine docment.you claim to have been in a relationship with mr phillip------since august 2007,yet when you made an application for a visitor visain december 2007,you made no mention of having a partner in the uk.during your interview,you were unable to provideany credible explanation for these discrepancies with your application.
in light of the above,i am not satisfied that you are seeking leave for marriage and /or intend to live permanently with your spouse after the marriage or civil partnership.
therefore i refuse your application.


what do the experts think do we have a chance in appeal. or would you advise us to marry there in oct and apply again for spouse, if you think we have chance in appeal frances and i could do with some help espeically with a letter.
thanks again everyone for your help

The Catering question has already been covered if it were I I would say that my relationship by correspondence had led to a desire to meet and that her aunts invitation was an ideal opportunity

When that was denied you were motivated to visit her in the Phil's and it was after this meeting that the desire for marriage and proposal arose hence her application for fiance visa and naturally like everyone else the length of your relationship is measured from first contact.

[andypaul]

this is what she said i quote
in summary,as evedence that you intend to get married you have submitted a letter from "outside catering",however i am satisfiedto a high degree of probability that it is not a genuine docment.you claim to have been in a relationship with mr phillip------since august 2007,yet when you made an application for a visitor visain december 2007,you made no mention of having a partner in the uk.during your interview,you were unable to provideany credible explanation for these discrepancies with your application.
in light of the above,i am not satisfied that you are seeking leave for marriage and /or intend to live permanently with your spouse after the marriage or civil partnership.
therefore i refuse your application.


what do the experts think do we have a chance in appeal. or would you advise us to marry there in oct and apply again for spouse, if you think we have chance in appeal frances and i could do with some help espeically with a letter.
thanks again everyone for your help

Have you looked in to the requriments for marriage in phil for the two of you?

You mention you could marry by October a month or so to get the paperwork in order then apply.

The biggest question can you afford the wedding in phill and visa fee?

But if you were married in october you might get the spouse visa a few months later.

A visa appeal may drag on but could be a cheaper option from the little i know?

A big decision me personally if i could rasie the money i would go the wedding route.

[phillip]

thank you keith

[phillip]

we have decided to marry anyway.but if we dont appeal its like we got something to hide.i would like to apply for spouse visa because frances might get here by christmas,but knowing the embassy they will find another reason to turn us down again.on the other hand if jackie wenlock overturns her decision she could be here even sooner,ive got a feeling she will not change her mind and it will be a year before we can apply again for spouse visa.im finding it unbelivable that i cant get my love one here.

[phillip]

im very sorry win 2 win for repeating myself.its just im feeling desperate at the moment knowing frances will not be with me .

[andypaul]

we have decided to marry anyway.but if we dont appeal its like we got something to hide.i would like to apply for spouse visa because frances might get here by christmas,but knowing the embassy they will find another reason to turn us down again.on the other hand if jackie wenlock overturns her decision she could be here even sooner,ive got a feeling she will not change her mind and it will be a year before we can apply again for spouse visa.im finding it unbelivable that i cant get my love one here.

How long does an appeal take?

is it like a court case takes ages to get to trial?

Im sure i saw in an article on here it can take quite a while.

[phillip]

26 weeks ,longer if between july and oct

[Piamed]

The Catering question has already been covered if it were I I would say that my relationship by correspondence had led to a desire to meet and that her aunts invitation was an ideal opportunity

When that was denied you were motivated to visit her in the Phil's and it was after this meeting that the desire for marriage and proposal arose hence her application for fiance visa and naturally like everyone else the length of your relationship is measured from first contact.
Sound advice I think!