What If...

[Arthur Little]

... my beloved Filipina and I complete all the necessary paperwork needed to apply for a spousal visa, pay the requisite fee, get married and are turned down?

I'm asking this because I will shortly be returning to the Phils to submit our application and, though we will have no difficulty in proving the depth of our relationship in every other respect, I am really concerned that my *financial status *(being early retired on a modest occupational pension) may not be sufficient to convince the authorities that I'll be able to support her in the UK - even although I own my own house ouright.

She has taught in a government high school for the past 22 years, but gave up her teaching post in September in order to concentrate on our long-term plans to build a life together in Scotland.

I'm genuinely very worried that the factors I've mentioned could 'count against us' despite being led to believe that practically one hundred per cent of spousal applications are successful.

In the worst-case scenario, I would have paid £515 (which I understand is non-refundable in any circumstances) and, more to the point, it would mean that a husband and wife would be left living at opposite ends of the globe ad infinitum!! Due to my limited resources, it would be well-nigh impossible for me to even contemplate any further trips to the Phils ... ever! ... and that, after taking into account the fact that I qualify for the state pension next September. Not exactly the recipie for a successful marriage.

So, in the light of such considerations, is there anyone who might be in a position to speculate on the likely outcome of our application? ... even to the point of being 'brutally blunt'! ... bearing in mind that the last thing I want, is to let my lady down.

[ginapeterb]

Arthur Pete is a man who always tells it as it is, he will be blunt !

Firstly, I think you have to be practical which I am pleased to see you are doing.

You are genuinely concerned as to whether this project is going to be fruitful, and a project at this stage is what it is.

You say you are on a modest occupational pension ? this would depend on what you mean by modest, I have clients in my business who tell me they have an occupational pension of £70.00 a month, or less, these pensions are what I call token pensions.

The rule state that you must be able to support your wife without recourse to public funds, however, if you do intend to marry before you bring your wife to the UK, of course the rules state that she would be entitled to seek paid employment.

However, as she has taught in a school for 22 years, her transition into a UK school at first may seek to be harder than at first meets the eye, qualifications have to be validated and the Scottish education system I understand is hard to penetrate unless you have internationally acceptable qualifications.

Firstly, what are your chances of an approval ? that is what you want to know, I would say your chances based on the little information you have given, are about the same as anyone else's what you could do is draw up a budget statement of your income and expenditure, and then present that with your application.

The points to note here, is that Entry Clearance Officers must be satisfied that you can support your wife without recourse to public funds, in other words, would your occupational pension and your state pension, i.e. the basic state pension, and 2nd state pension with your occupational pension, enable you to support yourself, and a 2nd person, to a reasonable standard without you having to apply for pension credit in respect of 2 of you living together.

Secondly, do you have adequate housing to house yourself and your new wife, without recourse to public housing.

And thirdly, can you satisfy the Entry clearance officer that you intend to live as man and wife in the UK, and there is a balance of probability that your intention to do so is genuine and not an attempt by your future wife to become and economic migrant, from what you tell us about your future wife, her status as a teacher with employment in the Philippines, this is unlikely to be an issue you need focus on.

It is not true to say that 100 per cent of spousal applications are approved, that would be misleading, and I don't know where you heard that, that advice is misleading and unhelpful.

There is not a known percentage of approvals for spouse visa's those figures are probably only known to the relevant government department or UK Visas.

What I would say to you, is that a high percentage of applications to enter the UK as a spouse are successful, there is of course a minority of applications that are unsuccessful and the 2 main reasons for the applicant wife being denied is normally in these 2 categories.

1. The sponsor has insufficient income to support the applicant.

2. The ECO is not convinced that the applicant wife has any intention of permanently residing with the sponsor in the UK.

Something you might like to note, which is seldom mentioned on this forum, it is not a guaranteed right that if you marry someone from a foreign country, that the state should automatically grant your intended wife a visa, just on the basis of marriage.

Marriage is not a vehicle to obtaining a UK residency visa, which can be frustrating at the best of times, considering how many Eastern Europeans can come and go into the UK without as much as a passport check.

However, You are correct in stating that the visa fee of P50,000 is not refundable, regardless of whether a visa is issued or not.

What you have not told us, is whether you have already met your fiancee, because that is a pre-requisite to marriage, if you have not met her as yet, and you have proposed marriage, be careful, you may run the risk of being considered to be a mail order applicant.

Its unlikely of course that you have not met her, although you did not make that clear, if you are saying that your income would not allow you to ever visit your lady again, that would be of concern, unless you are stating that position in case her application fails.

That can happen, and it may be a case of, the ECO telling your lady, that the sponsor that is you, may wish to come to the Philippines and live, that also is used sometimes to test out the merits of your resolve to be married and live together.

It does not always follow suit for the ECO that you should come to live in the UK, that is always assumed by both parties, but cannot be the overriding thrust of the application.

You need to be honest about your means of living, if you are living close tor or well below the national average of about £24,000 per annum before taxation.

Then I would say, you would need to look carefully at your income, and whether you can with hand on heart support 2 people from it.

If the answer is no, then you may wish to consider carefully your position before making an application, and yes, you may find yourself, living at opposite ends of the globe, it has happened, and will happen again, and I know of a case where this has happened.

The applicant was unemployed in the Philippines, a lady of about 50 years.

The sponsor was 65 years old, on pension credit, with £2000.00 in savings, I witnessed the applicant being denied a visa, because the ECO said the £2000.00 savings was not enough, and the applicant was in receipt of public funds with no other income.

I wish you well with your quest, however for me to give any better and more accurate assessment of your position, you need to be a bit more open about your income and savings.

Best of Luck.

I hope that is blunt.

[Arthur Little]

Hello Pete, pleased to hear from you and many thanks.

Firstly, yes I HAVE met my "intended" (excuse my use of the word quoted) and we spent 3 memorable and happy weeks together in her homeland last month - during which time, I also had the pleasure of meeting one of your Respected Members, Peter Bell, with whom I had a number of lengthy discussions vis-a-vis the *various options available to Myrna and myself.

On my return to the UK, I pondered long and hard over those and eventually - having reached the conclusion that (based on the experience of others in my situation) a Tourist Visa was virtually a "non-starter" decided to come back to the Philippines one more time (which, realistically, is all I can afford!) and henceforth apply for either/or one of the only other alternatives, i.e. the Fiance(e) and/or Spousal versions, as we genuinely love one another.

Here then, is my financial position as of now, at the age of 64:-

Occupational Pension: £6,178.67 per anum, paid into my current account
at a present rate of £512.49 monthly after tax
is deducted

*Pension Credit: £11.08 - reduced to £8.10 - weekly, recently,
following on an index-linked increase in my work
pension earlier this year

Those figures represent my total INCOME, which I find adequate to live on comfortably, given that my guaranteed Pension Credit entitles me to a reduction on Council Tax Bills.

As to 'Savings' ... well, most of these will have been used up on my two trips to the Philippines; after my second visit in November/December is over, and I've forked out for the Spousal Visa application fee, wedding costs &c., I don't imagine there'll be much left in the kitty. Indeed, I doubt if there's much likely to be more than perhaps £2K.

Truth be told, I'm very much afraid I could-well end up in the same 'boat' as the OAP sponsor whose partner was refused entry, especially as my income is also supplemented by *pension credit. What happens then ... ? It all seems so unfair that two people who really care deeply for each other are prevented from being together simply because of a lack of wherewithal ... further exacerbatedby the fact that an already exhorbitant fee cannot be reclaimed in the event of a visa not being granted. It's rather like paying to sit a driving test and stumping up again for another if one fails ... except the amount is much, much heftier and has far, far greater implications for the parties involved.

It all begs the question: How, in God's name do all those mad bloody terrorists manage to wangle their way into Britain ...... ? Money may well be (and, in my humble opinion, IS "the root of all evil) but it can certaily TALK!

If there's anything I haven't disclosed that might in any way be relevant, please let me know.

Thanks again.

Arthur.

[ginapeterb]

Arthur,

Thanks for a full and frank disclosure of your personal financial situation, that takes a lot of doing on a public forum, each to his own, admittedly, your income may be considered to be inadequate for 2 people to live on in the UK.

I take it from the figures you have given, that you are not yet at state retirement age for the basic state pension for a single man, and also if you earned the 2nd state pension what used to be called SERPS.

I take it you contracted out of this scheme ? but if not, you should get a reasonable state pension based on your class 1 contributions from your employment.

It would appear that you are living on around £550.00 a month, no disrespect to you Arthur and by the way I am not passing myself as an expert on this case, as I am not, but I am trying to give you a realistic view of your situation, I could be wrong, but I would say, its almost likely that your income would not be sufficient to get your lady a visa for settlement of a foreign spouse.

I have some good advice for you, before entering into marriage with your lady, I would go down the route of a fiancee visa, and you could do this almost straight away, before arranging a wedding in the Philippines, and involving yourself in that cost, a fiancee visa, would at least give you a fairly quick indication of where you stand.

Yes the same fee is payable of P50,000 but this is all you would pay in the short term, at least if then your fiancee is approved for entry clearance, you could just have to have your wedding in UK, a modest ceremony is all that is required within 6 months of entry.

If this does not fit your plans I can well understand, but it might be sensible advice at present, also I would brief your lady about this situation of your income, she seems and intelligent woman, they all are you know !

Sadly you cannot base your projected income on state retirement age, but only as you are now, if you had say £20,000 to £50,000 in savings, your income would be unlikely to be an issue, but how many of have got that ?

Probably very few of us, certainly not me, personally and of course if you wish to seek the opinions of others on the forum, I do not believe you have sufficient income to support your wife without recourse to public funds, and I am pretty sure that is what they ECO will say in the event of a refusal.

I wish you well Arthur, please solicit the opinions of others, I wont be offended.

[joebloggs]

do you own your own home or do you rent Arthur ?

it doesn't look good like Peter has said, but some people have managed to get a spouse visa while on benefits.

there is no minimum figure you need as savings, but a £2000-£3000 seems ok

or there is no mention of a figure that you should have monthly left over to support your wife, but the amount of what you would receive while on income support has been mentioned in some AIT cases as a minimum figure, also £94.95 a week left for you both to live on weekly after all utility bills, mortgage (or rent) and council tax have been paid has been mentioned.

if you are refused the spouse visa, you will have a right to appeal.

oh the info can be found here...

http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tr...D=299&CatID=26 some of the info could be out of date

[Arthur Little]

... I were to tell you that I've already made it crystal clear to Myrna as to the exact state of my financial situation - down to the last penny, even! - in the course of our regular daily correspondence? Also, she's currently in the process of completing her application for a spousal visa on that very basis, confident the officials will be sympathetic in the light of our complete and utter honesty, and the fact that we can provide evidence of the true nature of our loving relationship. The rest, she says, is in God's hands. Ho hum, if only ... !!

Alas, from all you've said - particularly in the second of your two kind replies - it must seem as if I've been either living in 'cloud cuckoo land' or, like the proverbial ostrich, continued to bury my head in the sand, in the fervent hope of some sort of "divine Intervention" as a feasible solution to the dilemma that's plagued my every waking moment since I returned from my previous visit in September.

To make matters worse, I'm presently 'persona non grata' in the eyes of my son and daughter and their respective partners - since no one is more aware of my true financial capabilities than them (and, of course, my *bank manager - if such a *species still exists in modern Britain!). But I know full well that this is only because they (my family) care so much about their daft old dad, and don't want me getting into what, to them, appears to be an impossible situation whereby 'I act in haste, and find myself forced to repent at leisure'. And, it's not as if they have anything against my relationship per se, because they've never had the chance to meet Myrna.

As you know, it's always much easier for others to offer their "well-meaning" advice, e.g. "Do this, don't do that, etc., etc., ... or vice versa. Dammit all, I've had a belly-full of all that practically from the moment I set foot on my home turf after coming home last time, and ever since!

In my introductory message on first joining this website, I indicated my intention to apply for a tourist visa for Myrna ... to the annoyance of another member who seemed to have formed the impression that in taking this route, I was in some way attempting to "buck the system" whereas, I felt compelled to point out that nothing could be further from the truth, and was (sensibly I thought) considering the most affordable means of bringing Myrna to Scotland. It was only later, after all the indicators pointed to the likliehood of this method being a lost cause, that I changed my mind and decided to go for the BIG one. It's THIS that's caused the "rift" with my family, who had been perfectly happy to go along with the idea of the tourist idea, as it would've given them the opportunity of meeting their future stepmother beforehand.

I realise the rules are there for a purpose, but surely each application could be examined and (fairly) judged according to its merits WITHOUT placing too much emphasis on worldly wealth. Surely STRENGTH OF CHARACTER should be the crucial factor in determining such matters.

Thanks again Pete, for your good wishes and, not least, for your patience and understanding.

A' ra best frae Bonnie Scotland (which would be even bonnier if Myrna were able to grace it with her lovely presence!)

Arthur

PS Nope, it's no' a braw bricht moonlicht nicht the nicht, but at least it's dry ... for which I maun be thankfu'

[Arthur Little]

Thanks Joe, for your useful contribution.

Yes, as I specified in my opening saga, I DO, in fact, own my home OURIGHT - without the encumberances of mortgage repayments that a great many younger men still have to face. The house is semi-detached, with 2 large double bedrooms plus one *smaller bedroom *(wherein my well-used computer is domiciled). It's also fully centrally heated ... an essential measure, given the vagaracies of the Scottish climatic conditions. I've lived here since the house was first built more than 40 years ago.

[joebloggs]

that's one good thing then

next year you will also get a state pension ? so your income will increase?

any chance of your family loaning you a few £1000s for 6 months ?

have you thought about marrying and living over there, selling or renting your home here ?

if you married in the phils, your wife could start looking for work soon as she landed in the uk..

maybe use the european route, move to france or another european country and excerise your treaty rights as a Self-sufficient person, after 6 months apply for a family permit for your wife, not sure how many brits have got their wife into the uk this way, even if they will allow it

i don't know of any other ways..

[darren-b]

Those figures represent my total INCOME, which I find adequate to live on comfortably, given that my guaranteed Pension Credit entitles me to a reduction on Council Tax Bills.

One think you may need to consider expecially if you are planning on putting in a budget statement of your income and expenditure (as mentioned by Pete) is whether you would still be entitled to a reduction on your Council Tax Bills if your lady moved into your house with you.

[Arthur Little]

Hello Darren,

I take your point. Not quite sure if I'd still be eligible for the Council Tax reduction. I doubt it somehow, but of one thing I CAN be certain, it wouldn't matter a toss if I DID lose it! As long as Myrna and I are ALLOWED to live TOGETHER here in Scotland, then I'll be satisfied. Why the hell SHOULD money (or, in my case, the lack of it) prevent two people - who love each other dearly - from settling in a nice, warm, comfortable home that one of the parties can provide and, moreover, owns outright? I would've thought that that alone would be enough to score at least a few 'brownie points!!!

Besides, I never HAVE been, nor ever WILL be a wealthy man (no, I didn't audition for the part of Topal in the ever-popular stage/film musical 'Fiddler On The Roof' ... lest someone should decide to "play the wag"!).

As regards my coming to live in the Philippines, Myrna herself is aware - and fully appreciates - that this is out of the question, because of my desire to remain in regular contact with my immediate family.

[keithAngel]

Am I missing something here? Arthur if you own you own house out right then you have a relatively large amount of capital locked up in it and I would have thought it would be no problem to release enough of it to establish that you can indeed support your wife to be in the first years if needed.

Marry her ,get an partial annuity to put in the bank, get her a job offer perhaps from a friend locally part time would do and go for it.

The "no recourse " bit doesnt go on for ever be positive and determined

[andypaul]

Am I missing something here? Arthur if you own you own house out right then you have a relatively large amount of capital locked up in it and I would have thought it would be no problem to release enough of it to establish that you can indeed support your wife to be in the first years if needed.

Marry her ,get an partial annuity to put in the bank, get her a job offer perhaps from a friend locally part time would do and go for it.

The "no recourse " bit doesnt go on for ever be positive and determined

Exactly where there is a will.

[Arthur Little]

Hi Keith & Andy (both)

Now there's an idea ... never thought of that! I completed my final mortgage payment about two & *a half years' ago. Pardon my "ignorance" here, but could either of you two gentlemen tell me how exactly how I 'set the ball rolling' on this?

Oh! incidentally, while you're at it, maybe you could enlighten me as to how I can shoten the asterisked words, to save me typing out the 'time periods' ages and the like, in full, on any documents, as it always looks so cumbersome the way I've done it here. (I mean the 'half' bit - or any other number expressed in fractional terms for that matter).

Ta, in anticipation of both pieces of advice.

[darren-b]

I take your point. Not quite sure if I'd still be eligible for the Council Tax reduction. I doubt it somehow, but of one thing I CAN be certain, it wouldn't matter a toss if I DID lose it!

Sorry, I didn't mean from that point of view. All I meant was that you ought to be aware in advance as you wouldn't want the ECO pointing out that your sums are wrong as you were no longer entitled to it.

[Arthur Little]

... I were to thank all my fellow members for their infinite patience in taking the trouble to read my somewhat long-winded saga and took the trouble to offer me their wise counsel. Be assured, each and every contribution has been much appreciated, and has provided me with 'food for thought'.

Incidentally, I've just realised that this will be my 15th post since joining the site. Does that mean I have now earned enough 'brownie points' to qualify for "promotion" to the next tier in the hierarchy ... ?

If so, my "newly-elevated" status will not result in a grammatically pedantic potted life history ... promise!!!

Cheers the noo (well, I DID promise, and a guid Scotsman always keeps his word).

Arthur.

[IainBusby]

Hi Arthur,
As you own your own home, another possibility for you to supplement your income maybe to take in a lodger. Even though you may not like the idea in the long term, it may be something worth considering to make your overall finacial situation look much stronger in the short term.
Iain.

[Arthur Little]

Hi Iain,

Thanks. The problem with taking in a lodger is that it could end up rebounding on me for two main reasons I can think of:-

1. When my son was living at home with me (as he did until well into his 30s) I
was forever dropping hints (perhaps selfishly) that it was high time he started
looking for a place of his own in order that I could have the house to myself.
He DID eventually, but I cannot help wondering what he might think about me
considering sharing with a stranger (apart from someone to whom I was married
of course) which WOULD be understandable in the circumstances ...

... and ...

2. I believe I'm correct in thinking the Immigration "boffins" are pretty adamant
that the property in which it's proposed the potential partner would be living
is unoccupied by anyone other than the homeowner.

Having said that, I do appreciate the thought. Oh, incidentally, the way your name is spelt, prompts me to ask if you have Scots connections??? Hope I won't be "Sent to Coventry" for being nosey (ha,ha, couldn't resist the joke, given your location!).

Cheers,

Arthur

[PeterB]

Outright ownership of a house is, indeed, a significant asset - suggestions to use that, in some way, are very sensible. I was in a position to sell a house that I owned outright (plus two cars, although they only fetched £30,000 in 'rush' sales) before I came to Phils.

This capital is what is allowing me to live a life of relative leisure over here!

[keithAngel]

Not knowing the market value of your house makes it a bit more difficult but if I were you I would have a chat with that bank manager who knows you well and tell him what your plans are £10-15k in your bank as liquid cash should bolster any spouse visa app and you can tell him you probably wont even need it all if you are a traditional and canny Scot

Get your good lady over marry her and help her find a job and like Joe put your feet up and enjoy your new lease of life and retirement and br what the family thinks

[IainBusby]

Hi Iain,

Thanks. The problem with taking in a lodger is that it could end up rebounding on me for two main reasons I can think of:-

1. When my son was living at home with me (as he did until well into his 30s) I
was forever dropping hints (perhaps selfishly) that it was high time he started
looking for a place of his own in order that I could have the house to myself.
He DID eventually, but I cannot help wondering what he might think about me
considering sharing with a stranger (apart from someone to whom I was married
of course) which WOULD be understandable in the circumstances

and

2. I believe I'm correct in thinking the Immigration "boffins" are pretty adamant
that the property in which it's proposed the potential partner would be living
is unoccupied by anyone other than the homeowner.

Having said that, I do appreciate the thought. Oh, incidentally, the way your name is spelt, prompts me to ask if you have Scots connections??? Hope I won't be "Sent to Coventry" for being nosey (ha,ha, couldn't resist the joke, given your location!).

Cheers,

Arthur

Yes Arthur, I believe I read in another thread somewhere that you're from Perth. Well I was born about 14 miles from there in Auchterarder and came to Coventry when I was 10 years old. I still have lots of family in Auchterarder and I took my wife Louella and step-daughter Mary Grace up there in August this year to meet them all and they absolutely loved it!
Iain.

[andypaul]

Would the ECO object to you having a lodger, i dont know the offcial answer. But from what i have read of the regulations and rulings, a few years back.

The ECO is trying to see if you have a room over a certain size which is neither a Kitchen or bathroom in which you and your Partner can stay.

Proptey ownership is of course a plus. But i cant see an issue if there is enough room for your Mahal and you to stay there with a room to yourselves, if you have every other bedroom full of lodgers as long as all documented and taxed.
As it shows income surely?

[IainBusby]

Hi Iain,

Thanks. The problem with taking in a lodger is that it could end up rebounding on me for two main reasons I can think of:-

1. When my son was living at home with me (as he did until well into his 30s) I
was forever dropping hints (perhaps selfishly) that it was high time he started
looking for a place of his own in order that I could have the house to myself.
He DID eventually, but I cannot help wondering what he might think about me
considering sharing with a stranger (apart from someone to whom I was married
of course) which WOULD be understandable in the circumstances

and

2. I believe I'm correct in thinking the Immigration "boffins" are pretty adamant
that the property in which it's proposed the potential partner would be living
is unoccupied by anyone other than the homeowner.

Having said that, I do appreciate the thought. Oh, incidentally, the way your name is spelt, prompts me to ask if you have Scots connections??? Hope I won't be "Sent to Coventry" for being nosey (ha,ha, couldn't resist the joke, given your location!).

Cheers,

Arthur

Would the ECO object to you having a lodger, i dont know the offcial answer. But from what i have read of the regulations and rulings, a few years back.

The ECO is trying to see if you have a room over a certain size which is neither a Kitchen or bathroom in which you and your Partner can stay.

Proptey ownership is of course a plus. But i cant see an issue if there is enough room for your Mahal and you to stay there with a room to yourselves, if you have every other bedroom full of lodgers as long as all documented and taxed.
As it shows income surely?

I would agree with Andy. It's not as if your sharing a house with the lodger, your simply renting out a room in your own property to supplement your income. With regard to your son, you could float the idea with him first and see if he's at all interested in moving back in. At least then if he isn't interested and you do decide to take in a complete stranger, you can say that you gave him first refusal.
Iain.

[Arthur Little]

Hello again Iain,

Well well, it's a small world right enough. Auchterarder, eh? Funny to think that you and I were practically "neighbours" at one time ... before they exiled you to Coventry, that is! And now, here we are, "chatting" away on this site - two fellow travellers in a sense - each having journeyed all the way across to the other side of the globe to meet our respective partners. Amazing really, at our time of life!! But a damned good move -for both of us - all the same.

I'm pleased to hear that the visit back home to your family went down a treat, by all accounts. I've still to cross that particular hurdle, if and when Myrna is granted her visa.

Many moons ago, as you'll recall, motorists had to pass through the 'lang toon' (I think it shares that distinction with Kirkcaldy doesn't it?) en route to Glasgow. These days, it's much quieter, of course (NOT because you no longer there, I hasten to add!) but as a result of the A9 bypass. Funnily enough, my sister-in-law's late father owned the butcher's shop in the nearby village of Dunning for many years.

Although I've lived in the Perth area for most of my life, I'm actually Glaswegian by birth. The 'Dear Green Place' as it's now affectionately nicknamed by its citzens (who're - sorry, best change that - who are they trying to kid?). Admittedly, the city does rightly boast some lovely suburbs - one of which is called Busby, would you believe! It's located on the south side.

Well, it has been really nice hearing from you Iain. Thanks for your guidance, and do please keep in touch. I go back out to the Phils again on November 23/24, returning on *December 15 (which would've been *my 41st wedding anniversary had things turned out differently).

A' ra best to you and your charming missus ... Louella isn't it?

Arthur

[fred]

As regards my coming to live in the Philippines, Myrna herself is aware - and fully appreciates - that this is out of the question, because of my desire to remain in regular contact with my immediate family.

Arthur..

I suppose it is just as well that this is a sacrifice that she is obviously prepared to make with her future plans to join you in Scotland.
To be quite honest I think that there are better reasons for you not moving here at least until you receive a state pension.
Good luck with your future application and by the way..I completely understand your frustration at how we are now being treated by the British authorities..
Its why I live here.
Regards,
Fred.

[IainBusby]

Hello again Iain,

Well well, it's a small world right enough. Auchterarder, eh? Funny to think that you and I were practically "neighbours" at one time ... before they exiled you to Coventry, that is! And now, here we are, "chatting" away on this site - two fellow travellers in a sense - each having journeyed all the way across to the other side of the globe to meet our respective partners. Amazing really, at our time of life!! But a damned good move -for both of us - all the same.

I'm pleased to hear that the visit back home to your family went down a treat, by all accounts. I've still to cross that particular hurdle, if and when Myrna is granted her visa.

Many moons ago, as you'll recall, motorists had to pass through the 'lang toon' (I think it shares that distinction with Kirkcaldy doesn't it?) en route to Glasgow. These days, it's much quieter, of course (NOT because you no longer there, I hasten to add!) but as a result of the A9 bypass. Funnily enough, my sister-in-law's late father owned the butcher's shop in the nearby village of Dunning for many years.

Although I've lived in the Perth area for most of my life, I'm actually Glaswegian by birth. The 'Dear Green Place' as it's now affectionately nicknamed by its citzens (who're - sorry, best change that - who are they trying to kid?). Admittedly, the city does rightly boast some lovely suburbs - one of which is called Busby, would you believe! It's located on the south side.

Well, it has been really nice hearing from you Iain. Thanks for your guidance, and do please keep in touch. I go back out to the Phils again on November 23/24, returning on *December 15 (which would've been *my 41st wedding anniversary had things turned out differently).

A' ra best to you and your charming missus ... Louella isn't it?

Arthur

Lang Toon, wow, it's a very long time since I heard that!

[Arthur Little]

To Moderators Pete (ginapeterb) and Joe (Bloggs) and to Darren, Keith, Andy, Iain, PeterB and Fred - respected members all - I extend my gratitude for your valuable input and advice.

Friends, I could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be regarded as a 'Holy Willie' BUT, having been a long-standing Boys' Brigade Officer and District Elder in the Church of Scotland for more than 33 years, I feel I must act according to the dictates of (a) my conscience and (b) my heart.

Accordingly, in the end, Myrna and I will submit our application based on our joint cicumstances exactly as they ARE, place everything in God's (hopefully) merciful hands - with more than a few fervent prayers from me, and something like three-dozen 'Hail Marys' from Myrna - in order to convince HIM (the Almighty) if not the Immigration Authorities ...!!!

Now I would hardly be surprised if this site were to be deluged with ardent pleas along the lines of: "Come down to earth, Arthur, for Ch***t's sake ... you're living in the REAL world, man! So be it!

Whatever; thanks again for all your help and good wishes. Heartiest congratulations too, to all who have emerged relatively unscathed from the maze of red tape and bureaucracy, and my very best wishes to those who've yet to enter the 'lion's den'. God BE with you, in the same way as he finally was with Daniel (I think!).

Kindest Regards,

Arthur.

[keithAngel]

Not from me Arthur in the end we all decide for ourselves what is most appropriate for ourselves it can be helpful to check that out by getting other views for me "do as thou wilt and it harm none" is the whole of the law, All the best to you both

[PeterB]

Indeed, I'm sure that we all wish you well ... and I'm looking forward to seeing you again in a little over three weeks.

[andypaul]

A third message of support we only offer our views and experiences.

I hope that the ECO will see that your meant to be together and grant myrnas application.

Good luck all the best to you both and im sure like all the others we would be glad to see you stay in touch and keep us updated please.

[joebloggs]

I feel I must act according to the dictates of (a) my conscience and (b) my heart.

2 things the gov doesn't have when it comes to immigration..

see it as a game of chess Authur, keep one move ahead of the gov..

if you want something then get it, don't leave it to chance or fate

it should be your legal right to bring your wife to the country you were born and live in, i'm sure we all agree on that...

but i wish you good luck

and i hope your heart wins over your conscience..