UK Visas

[Arthur Little]

With all the recent, ongoing debate and general hoo-ha surrounding this particularly thorny subject, might I put forward a couple of simple suggestions .. ??

Given the law as it stands at present, there are always going to be those who will "abuse the system" - either by taking up employment whilst here on a tourist or visitor's visa, or by overstaying their welcome and ultimately "disappearing without trace". Perhaps if prospective applicants were forewarned at the outset that such breaches would NOT be tolerated in ANY circumstances, and that ALL offenders would, without exception, automatically forfeit their right(s) to apply again in the future, then this might act as a significant deterrent to deviant behaviour.

There are few who would dispute the fact that it OUGHT to be a wife's legal right to be able to live with her husband in the country of his birth. On this assumption, therefore, the majority of fiancee and/or spousal applications and those seeking 'indefinite leave to remain' are most likely to be genuine. Moreover, these people (unless they happen to be millionaires) are prepared to sacrifice literally hundreds of pounds - often a substantial chunk of their hard-earned life's savings - in the hope that their 'gamble' will pay off. If it does not, then they and their loved one are forced to live thousands of miles apart ad in finitum (unless, as I've said already, they are millionaires and can afford to try again ... and again ... and ...!!!). To my mind, it would make sense - and be fairer all round - if the fee were to be a 'one-off' payment of £550 (or whatever the latest constantly-changing figure is) and/or be refundable on each failed attempt. Equally, I'm sure that with a bit more compassion and forethought on the part of the Immigration Authorities, the waiting period could be considerably curtailed, thereby resulting in a great deal less stress and strain on marriages/committed relationships.

I've hinted at all this in previous threads, with a view to garnering support from fellow members, but have yet to receive a satisfactory response - hence my reasons for appearing to go through it all again.

Arthur

[aromulus]

I agree with you 100%, big man...

The problem as I see it is that the Gov, in all its misguided wisdom, is being run as a bankrupt business, by inept civil servants and anything that might incur a charge, because of obvious demand, will be charged for accordingly.

Once upon a time you were treated as a person, but for the past 10 years, you have been a "client".....

Lots of people are in the same situation as yourself, with limited income, or savings, and are being penalized for that.
The inalianable "right" to be happy with your loved ones, doesn't cut any ice with the faceless, heartless shower in charge.

The immigration problem is going to be with us for a long time to come and nothing will be done to effectively stem the flood of undesirables into the UK, or sending them back home if and when caught.

Because Italy is doing something to ease the problem, we are being branded as racists....

The Uk, needs to get out of some of the EU controls, and be able to re-establish its own identity.

Could go on forever, but suffice to say that I used to feel proud to be living a working here, bringing up my family, paying just taxes and observe the laws to the letter, of a country that didn't take any s from anybody else.
Not that sure now........

Looking forward to retire to Cebu in a few years...
Keep the San Mig on ice for me, Al............

[joebloggs]

Arthur, the gov. already does this..

changes to the Immigration Rules will make it mandatory to refuse future applications for a set period of time if the applicant has previously breached UK immigration law.

From 29 February 2008
Any application in which deception is used will automatically be refused.

From 1 April 2008
A set period of automatic refusal is being introduced if an applicant has:

* Overstayed – that is, remained in the UK for longer than permitted
* Entered the UK illegally
* Used deception – for example, by submitting false documents
* Breached their conditions of leave – for example, by working illegally

The use of deception will lead to automatic refusal of all future applications for 10 years.

People who leave the UK voluntarily at their own expense within 28 days of the breach occurring will not be penalised, but in all other circumstances overstaying, entering illegally or breaching the conditions of leave will lead to future applications being refused as per the following schedule:

* For 1 year – if the applicant left the UK voluntarily and at their own expense
* For 5 years – if the applicant left the UK voluntarily at public expense
* For 10 years – if the applicant was removed or deported from the UK

but There will be no mandatory ban where entry clearance is sought for settlement to join a partner / spouse or other family member, where the immigration offence was committed before the applicant was 18 years old, or where the applicant has been recognised by the UK Border Agency as a victim of trafficking.

[PeterB]

I agree with you, Arthur. I guess that the problem with a one-time, or refundable, fee is that there would be nothing to deter the non-genuine cases from 'trying it on', time and time again.

I would welcome the right to bring Ruby with me whenever I travel to the UK (or anywhere else, for that matter), but we will have to apply for a six month visitor visa on each and every occasion, or pay an extortionate fee for a ten year VV, every ten years, plus a Schengen visa in order to visit the other parts of the EU.

[Arthur Little]

Thanks guys. I guess myself and many others like me, are just gonna have to live with the status quo, and learn to accept it until such times as Britain stops pandering to European directives (fat chance!) and 'stands on its own two feet'.

Cheers anyway,

Arthur

[PeterB]

If Britain implemented all the EU immigration laws, our visa problems would be significantly reduced.

[andypaul]

The Eu is our crutch at the moment i doubt we will be seperating in fact you may soon open up your wallet and see Euros in the very near future.

The system cant keep up with the breaches and record them it seems to me.

Also can you imagine how bogged down the appeals system would be?

With the refundable visa fee if you fail i dont think would work in the eyes of Mps.

Just wait untill the Daily wail and co got hold of all the admin time taken up for free blah blah.

The fact that the visa dept pays its way keeps the heat off.

The majority of the Voters/taxpayers wont not want to supplement Visas and as the taxes rise to pay for Browns Bailout i think it will become even more hostile.

I belive and i have put it here before the goverment calculate they can push up the cost of the Visas far higher.

[darren-b]

There are few who would dispute the fact that it OUGHT to be a wife's legal right to be able to live with her husband in the country of his birth.

Assuming the marriage is genuine rather than just a way of getting a visa.

The majority of the Voters/taxpayers wont not want to supplement Visas and as the taxes rise to pay for Browns Bailout i think it will become even more hostile.

I belive and i have put it here before the goverment calculate they can push up the cost of the Visas far higher.

Totally agree. Fighting the cost is fairly pointless as the government see raising the cost of immigration as a way of winning votes rather than losing votes. So just see visa fees as an unavoidable tax on immigration and try to get through the process as quick as possible - in our case just under 4 years and ~£2000 (fiancee visa -> British passport).

[joebloggs]

- in our case just under 4 years and ~£2000 (fiancee visa -> British passport).

your lucky it will cost me more than £4,500 for the wife and kids

one of the reasons for the massive increase in visa fees a couple of years ago was that the gov said, those who use the service should be expected to pay.. fair enough..

charge the Europeans in the uk who apply for a visa to then

[aromulus]

charge the Europeans in the uk who apply for a visa to then

Walay kwarta, oi...........

[joebloggs]

Walay kwarta, oi...........

tell me dom did you use the british embassy ... ..

so you should pay to , simple as err 1 + 1 =

you know i think it should be free, but it should be free for everyone or we all pay, no 2 standards.. not fair

[aromulus]

tell me dom did you use the british embassy ... ..

so you should pay to , simple as err 1 + 1 =

you know i think it should be free, but it should be free for everyone or we all pay, no 2 standards.. not fair

As you know, I have stated often enough that the system is unfair for obvious reasons.

But as I find myself in the minority to take advantage of what is free, I cannot complain.

I agree with you 100%, Joey.

I did not make the rules, if you were in the same situation as me, I doubt very much you would "volunteer" to pay for the visa.

In fact, until things change around, I will continue to milk the system, and you cannot blame me for that, mate.

[PeterB]

Hmmm, just wondering whether I can make use of my mother's German nationality? Is it too late to claim a German passport? Does the fact that she was naturalised as a British subject, before I was born, rule out that possibility?

[Arthur Little]

Okay, ok, so it looks like Myrna and I are going to be facing tough times in the ensuing weeks. But WHY in God's name would the authorities WANT to adopt a hard line with two people who have endured the pain and loneliness wrought by years of widowhood?? And, unless they are truly sadistic, why would it even occur to them to block any genuine opportunities the couple might have of grasping their new-found happiness with both hands??

I would reiterate a question I've posted in at least one other thread on this site (and which no-one has yet attempted to answer): How come so many undesirables, such as would-be [and actual] terrorists, have managed to infiltrate their way into so-called "Great" Britain if our immigration laws are as tight as they're claimed to be ... ???

[keithAngel]

Okay, ok, so it looks like Myrna and I are going to be facing tough times in the ensuing weeks. But WHY in God's name would the authorities WANT to adopt a hard line with two people who have endured the pain and loneliness wrought by years of widowhood?? And, unless they are truly sadistic, why would it even occur to them to block any genuine opportunities the couple might have of grasping their new-found happiness with both hands??

I would reiterate a question I've posted in at least one other thread on this site (and which no-one has yet attempted to answer): How come so many undesirables, such as would-be [and actual] terrorists, have managed to infiltrate their way into so-called "Great" Britain if our immigration laws are as tight as they're claimed to be ... ???

Arthur whilst I agree with various posters here regarding the economic unfairness of our visa system my conclusion is that if we don't challenge its legality in the European Courts we tacitly agree to its continuing I guess it will have to wait until someone with the where withal or legal interest and or expertise has had enough.Not that our masters would necessarily comply of course being above the law themselves

In your own particular case from what you have said I would say that you have no problem to bring your lady to the UK if you really wish just a few choices to make (unpalatable or unfair as they may be) as to how you manage/create/present your application process and the relatively small amount of financial restructuring that requires.Ady,s recent post sets the financial hurdle that must me met very clearly.

As to your second point in my view the climate of fear created by continual "threats" suits western governments very well as it allows continual erosion of our rights as a supposed mechanism to "win" the battle which is again in my view about "control" of the population, that is the agenda not controlling our frontiers or catching illegals but training us to comply as to question would be "unpatriotic" otherwise resources would be placed there, its always more accurate if you want to know whats actually happening to look at what people are doing rather than what they are saying.

So the answer to your question is the government don't give a dam about illegals or East Europeans except as a mechanism for advancing there own agendas and for passing new laws to diminish your ability to make choices

If you read History and think outside the box it seems to me that all "Nation States" are based on the premise "do what we say and pay up or we will send the boys round" just like any other protection racket here in the Fils its all much more obvious who to pay and for what

Gracious did I just say all that I must be having an episode

[joroco]

My wife has been here for four months on a spouse visa. Now we would like her sister to visit for a holiday, perhaps up to a month. Any ideas about requirements or problems that may occur?

[darren-b]

My wife has been here for four months on a spouse visa. Now we would like her sister to visit for a holiday, perhaps up to a month. Any ideas about requirements or problems that may occur?

Unless she can prove to the ECO that there are reasons why she will return back to the Philippines there's a good chance that she wil be refused.

By reasons it usually mean showing that she owns property, or having a good job. Having a British boyfriend actually seems to help too as it is seen as a reason to return to the Philippines (less likely to overstay when you can legally get visas...).

[Mrs.JMajor]

i have a friend here ,shes teacher the daughter 33 married a British 5 yrs ago,the daughter invite the brother to come,he denied by a family visit visa,but when the teacher applied visit visa,her age is 50 and still a teacher but she just want to help her daughter gonna give birth in soonest time,she grant a visa ,so i just conclude ,Joe correct me if i am wrong here,that once shes working in government there are loads of possibility to grant a visit visa like my friend here on the forum shes from Baguio,working in DENR Dept.Of Environment Natural resources (Beth18) she grant 2x already by a visit visa,is that possible,so if you're sister in law has no good job,well.........

[joebloggs]

I've seen many people who had no job, no money, no property and got their visit visa, and also many people who had jobs, money and property who were denied , many cases it looks like pot luck

but the more reasons you can show for returning the better chance you have of getting a visitor visa.

also if its for a family member state that on the app, and the reason why, and in most cases you should be able to appeal and its probably worth going to appeal becuase you probably will win

[darren-b]

also if its for a family member state that on the app, and the reason why, and in most cases you should be able to appeal and its probably worth going to appeal becuase you probably will win

Unless additional information is provided to show the original decision was incorrect I can't see the ECO usually admitting they made a mistake.

[joebloggs]

Unless additional information is provided to show the original decision was incorrect I can't see the ECO usually admitting they made a mistake.

nearly 2/3rds of appeals are won, with or without additonal info, it doesn't matter what the ECO think, it will be upto the judge at AIT.

and as always provide all the info and evidence you can, and some of the ECO decisions are based on thier view of the 'probability of ..' not fact, just becuase you dont own a business, have lots of saving in the phils and own a house, doesn't mean you will not go back..

and i'm sure in some cases you may not be allowed to produce new evidence at a AIT hearing, as the ECO decision was based on the evidence you supplied at that time, and the judge will decide if that decsion was correct..