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Thread: V.A.T Drop to 15 percent

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    andypaul's Avatar
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    V.A.T Drop to 15 percent

    Will this stop you purchasing items other than food other than food untill its implemented?

    http://www.thelondonpaper.com/cs/Sat...icleController

    Credit Crunch News: VAT cut expected to be a feature of pre-budget report Sunday, 23 November 2008
    Every household in the country was today promised immediate support to get through the economic downturn amid growing expectations of a cut in Value Added Tax (VAT).

    A reduction of VAT from 17.5% to 15% was emerging as a likely centrepiece of tomorrow's Pre-Budget Report (PBR) as Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling signalled they were "ready to help".

    The Government is expected to pump between £15 and £20 billion into the economy in a Keynesian-style bid to spend Britain out of the downturn.








    As well as the VAT change, which would cost £12.5 billion, moves are thought to include further tax cuts targeted at the least well off.

    Other options include postponing the introduction of increased vehicle excise duty for older vehicles and taxpayer-funded guarantees on loans to small businesses.

    There are also suggestions of a new three month grace period for mortgage holders struggling to keep up with their repayments before repossession proceedings kick in.

    Further efficiency savings in the public sector will be announced, allowing some expenditure to be used more constructively to fight the recession.

    But debt is predicted to soar to more than £120 billion, fuelling concerns about the tax rises and spending cuts that may be necessary later.

    Mr Darling promised to set out clearly how the PBR's actions would be paid for.

    "Every household will get support now - to help them through the difficult period ahead," he wrote in the Sunday Mirror.

    "Worried mortgage holders will get help and I shall do what I can to help those who lose their jobs. And I will state exactly how we intend to pay for the help we are providing now."

    He explicitly acknowledged Britain was "moving into a recession" but sought to strike an upbeat note.

    "I will not play down the economic difficulties but equally I am confident that with sensible and responsible measures they can be overcome," he added.

    Tory leader David Cameron has come out against the Government's proposed "fiscal stimulus" - higher spending funded by borrowing to spur the economy back to strength.

    But the Prime Minister attacked the Conservative "do nothing" approach, warning that failure to intervene only prolongs the pain of recession.

    "If we do not act now, the downturn will be longer and more severe," he wrote in the News of the World.

    "A prolonged recession means people out of work for longer, more repossessions, and businesses taking longer to start growing again.

    "We all remember what happened in the 1980s and 1990s when the Conservative Government sat on its hands and just let people fend for themselves.

    "It took us years to recover and much of the damage could have been avoided had the Government stepped in to help people out. We will not repeat those mistakes."

    Mr Brown added: "I want every household facing difficulty at this time to know we are ready to help and on their side."

    The Prime Minister will take his message to business leaders at the CBI's annual conference tomorrow.

    He will seek to draw parallels between the Government's actions and US President-elect Barack Obama's plans for office next year.

    "President-elect Obama is making clear that he is planning a significant additional fiscal stimulus when he takes office," Mr Brown will say.

    He will go on that the world followed Britain's lead in its emergency support for ailing banks - now world leaders must coordinate their efforts on monetary and fiscal policy.

    "Doing nothing is not an option," he will say, calling for demand to be supported "with all of the instruments at our disposal".

    In pointed contrast to new Tory plans to diverge from Government spending in 2010/11 in response to the downturn, Mr Brown will insist it is essential to maintain long-term investment plans.

    In a riposte to Mr Cameron, the Prime Minister will say: "To fail to act now would be not only a failure of economic policy but a failure of leadership.

    "Doing 'too little, too late' would mean more damage, more deterioration. We need timely action now to prevent permanent damage to the future.

    "It would be the ultimate failure of leadership to sit on our hands and to let this recession take its course."


  2. #2
    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    He's only doing it to prevent large companies from leaving the UK as they are threatening to do......it'll be a pain in the ass for small business, and retailers, and pretty worthless for your average man on the street.
    Keith - Administrator


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    andypaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2Win View Post
    He's only doing it to prevent large companies from leaving the UK as they are threatening to do......it'll be a pain in the ass for small business, and retailers, and pretty worthless for your average man on the street.

    2.5 percent off any large purchases is beter than a punch in the head

    Also so more companies big and small can keep paying there vat bill i guess?

    But if theres any delay ir will cause some smaller shops problems. As like today we were going to buy a few failry large items where vat is included we have put it off. we can wait and a few quid extra is very welcome.


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    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andypaul View Post
    2.5 percent off any large purchases is beter than a punch in the head
    But no one has any money, and 2.5% sure ain't going to help!
    Keith - Administrator


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    Quote Originally Posted by andypaul View Post
    2.5 percent off any large purchases is beter than a punch in the head
    2.5% is nothing, it certainly wont get me to spend money on that flat screen TV I don't really need, which is what Clown Brown is trying to get us to do.

    I am after a new laptop, but I'm still gonna wait a few months more, even if the 2.5% cut is actioned tomorrow, after all, 2.5% on 400 notes is only £10, hardly an incentive.


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    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walesrob View Post
    ....but I'm still gonna wait a few months more, even if the 2.5% cut is actioned tomorrow, after all, 2.5% on 400 notes is only £10, hardly an incentive.
    Remember that electronics will all go UP in price in January, as Brown as screwed the exchange rate, and with him 'borrowing' another £100 Billion, it'll go down again....US dollar is likely to hit 1.45
    Keith - Administrator


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    andypaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2Win View Post
    But no one has any money, and 2.5% sure ain't going to help!
    Plenty do not all were crazy and borrowed huge sums or banked on their house making them a huge sum.

    Plenty of peopel would be happy with a 2.5 percent wage rise rahter than nothing as many people will get this year


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    andypaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walesrob View Post
    2.5% is nothing, it certainly wont get me to spend money on that flat screen TV I don't really need, which is what Clown Brown is trying to get us to do.

    I am after a new laptop, but I'm still gonna wait a few months more, even if the 2.5% cut is actioned tomorrow, after all, 2.5% on 400 notes is only £10, hardly an incentive.
    No but many will be by the money saving experts will advise it (starting to think those money savings experts have caused many of the problems)

    I also when i did a small google some thought it was dropping to 12.5 percent (not allowed with eu regs 15 % is the minimum allowed)

    Although If someone offers me a small discount for something, i'll take it. Save the pennies and the pounds will follow.

    Like Admin says prices may rise many shops are cutting back on stock and not buying in the same quanities so prices will possibly increase or the choice will be lost.


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    Respected Member PeterB's Avatar
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    Another problem is that any increased spending will result in an increase in imports, resulting in further falls in the pound. After all, UK plc has very little manufacturing left.

    How can a country survive on financial and service industries, especially when the financial empires collapse?


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    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    How can a country survive on financial and service industries, especially when the financial empires collapse?
    No idea, ask Singapore
    Keith - Administrator


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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2Win View Post
    No idea, ask Singapore
    But they have a massive sovereign fund which always offers me nice cups of tea when i go to the London office near Marble arch.

    The UK invests its money in chavs and others who wish to spend it on widescreen tellys and whathave you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    Another problem is that any increased spending will result in an increase in imports, resulting in further falls in the pound. After all, UK plc has very little manufacturing left.

    How can a country survive on financial and service industries, especially when the financial empires collapse?
    Well we could survie while our money markets made loads and kept us as a focal point. But if they dont recover and slowly die off then game over the UK becomes a large college as thats the last big market we have. At the weekends and summers we could ramp up tourism but still many are wary of the rubbish airports and chances of terrioist attack.


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    Respected Member jonnijon's Avatar
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    Unless the money is in peoples pay packets these so called cuts will do no good what so ever.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnijon View Post
    Unless the money is in peoples pay packets these so called cuts will do no good what so ever.

    I caught a it of GMTV today and even on there the presenter and people in Joes Shopping centre the trafford centre had caught on that what goes down will catch up with you later.

    So as well as pay packets add sensible long term Plans not short term hope i win an election so i can be in Madame Tussards


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    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    If we all go out and buy a Ferrari, we will have saved enough for a free tank of fuel!!!!
    Keith - Administrator


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    Respected Member Gavanddal's Avatar
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    I don't understand. They say all these measures are to get us spending again, then they say that we've been spending too much over the last 5-10 years and borrowing too much.
    Surely if banks make money from us borrowing then we've been doing the right thing and the banks should be healthy...But they're not and the government have had to bail them out....So if everyone is being cautious, living within their means, not borrowing, then the banks will be in a worse situation and then what??
    If fuel duty is to rise (again) despite the obvious difficulties seen by high fuel prices over the past 6 months, then goods will become more expensive and erase any saving made by VAT decreasing.
    Increasing duty on alcohol may put another nail into the coffin of the British Pub. There used to be 3 pubs down my road, they're are all closed down now. I almost never go out drinking now. Nearly £6 for 2 drinks which are 95% water? Crazy!

    Maybe, rather than create this 45% tax band they should just scrap the personal allowance for high earners and raise it for everyone else.
    Somehow the banks should be better regulated and the obscene pay and bonuses should be outlawed or re-invested, especially in all banks which have received taxpayers money.

    I can't imagine how anyone earning less than £30K survives in this country now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavanddal View Post

    I can't imagine how anyone earning less than £30K survives in this country now.
    Credit cards...........


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    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    My boss and i were discussing about these topics:
    Credit crunch, Financial Meltdown & Recession!

    He said that the reason why almost all businesses ae declaring bankruptcy is because no more money is coming in to the Banks... All businesses here are all based on Overdarfts, loans etc... Banks were all willing to give new businesses their start up capitals to set up their businesses... But then again... Not all have the power to repay them... They are all based on overdrawns.
    A business sector with a positive bank balance is indeed a good one but a business with a negative balance (depending how big it is) is pretty normal, it is a trend...

    It was really surprising when i first worked here as an assistant accountant seeing others bank balances hehe.. i coudnt beleive my eyes... but still, they said the business is pretty much healthy! my thought was, how could it be healthy if there is an OD next to the balance? hehe... but soon i realized & learnt that it is just really normal hehe...

    Also, i have a friend in the PI who owns a PC shop... i asked him how is the business? is it pretty hard? he said, nope, not at all... to my surpise i asked why? he said... erm, i do not know, it is just business as usual...

    then i think & think & think! NOW I KNOW HEHE...
    PI is pretty much CASH system... the money is revolving their in cash, not palstic card, not loans etc... Business their started from a hard-earned capital (which maybe you have saved from your previous employments/went to abroad & saved money, went back to PI and set up a business)... the cash their is pretty healthy... they know what to spend, when & why...

    but here, nope... as long as you have CCs in your wallet then you are pretty much a big spender... and some people refuse to pay their debts, so maybe that is also the reason why banks are declaring bankruptcy?

    i sometimes thinl (pls correct me if im wrong), people who are in heavy debts are one to be blamed? becuase why did you borrow in the first place if you know you cant afford to pay it? isnt this a form of stealing? spending someones money & wil not pay in the long run? hmmm... im sorry if this will offend you but hehe my Accounting Side is pretty busy running in my mind...

    but with Filipinos, you cant just have CC easily... even applying for a Globe/Smart Post Paid Phone Plans, you still need to provide your bank statements, income tax, NBI/police clearances to have a P500/month phone plan!

    My boss even said that, PI and other poor countries maybe poor in technologies but they know how to survive in a very little earnings... so meaning hehe PI is indeed rich! lol

    im sorry if im blahblahblah mode here...

    hmmm? made me really think?

    Credit crunch/recession...


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    Respected Member Ping's Avatar
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    Yes its all true. Poeple here spend three times of what they earned, and its easy to get a credit card. While Filipinos they kept half of what they earned, the older generation but the young ones I don't know.They're extravagant now and more westernize.
    Regards,

    Ping


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    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    Yes its all true. Poeple here spend three times of what they earned, and its easy to get a credit card. While Filipinos they kept half of what they earned, the older generation but the young ones I don't know.They're extravagant now and more westernize.


    Thank you Mrs Ping Win2Win! Sometimes it is a bit confusing right? hmmm... quite scary...


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    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    Yes its all true. Poeple here spend three times of what they earned, and its easy to get a credit card. While Filipinos they kept half of what they earned, the older generation but the young ones I don't know.They're extravagant now and more westernize.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay&Zobel View Post
    Thank you Mrs Ping Win2Win! Sometimes it is a bit confusing right? hmmm... quite scary...


    hmmm.. when i was working in the PI 3 yrs ago.. i was a freelance accountant... i was earning P300/visit & other benefits... and was able to afford to buy something which for me was such an accomplishment hehe...

    but hmmmm... my eldest sister, a 35 y/o is working full time without SSS pagibig,philheath and her salary.. guess how much? P198/day!!! below minimum wage!!! that is the present year... (a bit embarrasing to say this to the world)

    ok..ok why is that? coz there are lots of labour available than businesses who will employ you? or are there really stew-pid hehehe people who are just happy to use others? or is my sister the stew-pid one?

    to tell you also, she recently applied for a Teaching Job in Ateneo De Naga University (which hehe we think is 1 of the best schools in the country)...

    she passed her curriculum vitae stating all her work experiences, qualifications: LET - licensure examinations for teachers, IELTS and other credentials... and you know what!!! she was denied!!! she received a text message from the College of English Department stating that she was not hired due to her overqualifications!!!!! and the way it was texted!!!! which made her laugh was the GRAMMAR!!! DUH!!! how can someone message you by text? isnt that very unprofessional? what about the grammar? i thought it was from the College of English in a very wellknown Uni?!!

    so yeah, reasons:
    1) no one wants to employ you if you are more intelligent than the boss
    2) do not study & study & study... you will not please your employer hehe
    3) stay in a P198/day job than no job at all? duh!! i dont think so...
    4) if you are experiencing finacial crisis, think about those poor people...

    i dunno... help me here.. hehe... im in this bad battle hehe


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    Administrator KeithD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    Yes its all true. Poeple here spend three times of what they earned......
    Especially my wife
    Keith - Administrator


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    Quote Originally Posted by Win2Win View Post
    Especially my wife








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    andypaul's Avatar
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    I cant say its true ALL people in the west think being in credit is good or something acceptable. I read somewhere recently many houses in the UK have no mortage on them. Many people I know and work with have like me lived within our means and lived "boring lives" compared to others.
    Many I know like me are looking to buy propety once it bottoms out in a year or so.
    I bought my last one outright in 2000 and refused to while they were overvalued. That propety was bought off someone who overstrecthed themself and im sure the next one will be.

    Also i must say its amazing in Phill how many Phills are maxed out all the land and titles they own are borrowed agasint. Live hand to mouth it seems have no savings.

    I was surprised how many houses when looking at the banks lists which were up fro sale due to reposseion locally had the famillies living in them just waiting for them to be bought by someone. I only looked at a few banks lists so there must be quite a sigficant amount in each area. Was also surprised how many people in phill lived on pawning items and then buying them back.

    Although Credit via offcial means was fairly hard to come by many I witnessed borrowed from unoffcial methods, many goods seem to be bought on tick.

    Also I noticed all the housing esates opening around Manila many of these houses would have to be bought on credit. As were many condos, many of which seemed to be advertised at locals rather than OFWs or people from abroad.

    Give it a few years and there will be a huge credit boom. It will make at least one president and their party at least for a while seem very good at what they do.

    Anyway whats all this about credit and its bad after all, any bank not or coin is just a Credit note.


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    Respected Member PeterB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay&Zobel View Post
    All businesses here are all based on Overdarfts, loans etc...
    Not quite all .... I ran my company for 16 years and had a good living from it, the only debts the company had was to the shareholding directors.

    However, on the whole I agree with you - the over abundance/overuse of credit is a major factor in the current crisis.


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    Respected Member PeterB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andypaul View Post
    I bought my last one outright in 2000 and refused to while they were overvalued.
    Likewise, I bought my house, outright, in 2000 - and was fortunate to sell it at a reasonable price just a year ago! I did have a mortgage, once upon a time, of just under £25k, but have never borrowed money for any other purpose.

    I was surprised how many houses when looking at the banks lists which were up fro sale due to reposseion locally had the famillies living in them just waiting for them to be bought by someone.
    This seems to be common practice - I know of one house near us, which has been under foreclosure for some years. The owner(?) has even been improving/extending it, which means that the bank keeps increasing the sales price. I suspect that the owner is hoping that no one will buy the house if the price keeps going up.


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    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    Not quite all .... I ran my company for 16 years and had a good living from it, the only debts the company had was to the shareholding directors.

    However, on the whole I agree with you - the over abundance/overuse of credit is a major factor in the current crisis.


    Oh hehe, think i should change it to ALMOST ALL, not All heehe... Then good for you! i hope some strugling companies will be able to cope up soon because pity are those who will be made redundant before the end of the year (especially near Christmas).

    Thank you po!


  28. #28
    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andypaul View Post
    Also i must say its amazing in Phill how many Phills are maxed out all the land and titles they own are borrowed agasint. Live hand to mouth it seems have no savings.

    I was surprised how many houses when looking at the banks lists which were up fro sale due to reposseion locally had the famillies living in them just waiting for them to be bought by someone. I only looked at a few banks lists so there must be quite a sigficant amount in each area. Was also surprised how many people in phill lived on pawning items and then buying them back.

    Although Credit via offcial means was fairly hard to come by many I witnessed borrowed from unoffcial methods, many goods seem to be bought on tick.

    Also I noticed all the housing esates opening around Manila many of these houses would have to be bought on credit. As were many condos, many of which seemed to be advertised at locals rather than OFWs or people from abroad.

    Give it a few years and there will be a huge credit boom. It will make at least one president and their party at least for a while seem very good at what they do.

    Anyway whats all this about credit and its bad after all, any bank not or coin is just a Credit note.

    hmmm... really sad but yeah you are right... i pray PI will not be as rich (NOT) as the 1st world countries when it comes to Utang(Debt) hehe.

    there is 5/6 - where Indian Nationals in the PI lend money with high interest charges. i think it works like this:
    you borrowed P500 and you must pay P600... (if im not mistaken)
    terms: can be daily, weekly or monthly...
    they prefer daily hehe so the moment the debt is paid off, you can borrow again hehe. plus they will always go after you! you cant hide hehe...

    not all Filipinos can borrow money from the banks especially if you are in included in the grassroots area or below poverty line (which is again sad), the reason: how will you be able to repay the debt?

    or Pinoys will vote for their favorite politician-celebrities - hoping that they will be able to be benefited once they won! Hmp lol... Pinoy mentality.. again SAD

    Condos, Housing & Subdivision Businesses in PI are fast growing... why? because lots of Balikbayans and other Foreigners who married Pinoys or just would like to settle there.

    again: sad, go look around the malls with your Brit/Pinay wife.. they will go & flocking around you... reason: FACE VALUE: your partner is WHITE! coz they always think that WHITE has always got money hehe... RACISTS Filipinos hehe! (we experienced this last year when we went to malls, quite funny but can be very annoying hehe)


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    andypaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay&Zobel View Post
    hmmm... really sad but yeah you are right... i pray PI will not be as rich (NOT) as the 1st world countries when it comes to Utang(Debt) hehe.

    there is 5/6 - where Indian Nationals in the PI lend money with high interest charges. i think it works like this:
    you borrowed P500 and you must pay P600... (if im not mistaken)
    terms: can be daily, weekly or monthly...
    they prefer daily hehe so the moment the debt is paid off, you can borrow again hehe. plus they will always go after you! you cant hide hehe...

    not all Filipinos can borrow money from the banks especially if you are in included in the grassroots area or below poverty line (which is again sad), the reason: how will you be able to repay the debt?

    or Pinoys will vote for their favorite politician-celebrities - hoping that they will be able to be benefited once they won! Hmp lol... Pinoy mentality.. again SAD

    Condos, Housing & Subdivision Businesses in PI are fast growing... why? because lots of Balikbayans and other Foreigners who married Pinoys or just would like to settle there.
    As well as Balikbayans and people from abroad, my wifes friends who work in Call centres and in fairly well paid jobs in manila seem to be targeted by credit companies both for cards and loans but also to buy Condos etc.
    Im told the same is hapening in India, in the new young highly well paid by local standards. Young workers are buying there families houses and items they could not dream off much is funded in advance by credit....

    It will work its way down and as I say one president although he or she should be able to see the damage it can do. But as Gordon and other leaders in the West the feel good factor for their voters is very hard to resist.

    Give it ten or twenty years and credit will be easily avaiable in Phill. Not long ago it was very rare for the Person in the street to get credit apart from basic HP and loan sharks.


  30. #30
    Respected Member Jay&Zobel's Avatar
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    Question

    Give it ten or twenty years and credit will be easily avaiable in Phill. Not long ago it was very rare for the Person in the street to get credit apart from basic HP and loan sharks


    scaryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. i pray Pinoys will always use cash hehe... and still be clever!

    but i think... if there is a credit crunch, recession, finaNciAl meltdown (and other names) and businesses in UK/US are closing down because of these, do you think INT'L CALL CENTRES (India, PI based) will still be there, or will still exist? i think they will become redundant too?


    Let us all be FARMERS!!! FISHERMEN!!! hehe


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