Previous refusals

[Ady]

Although, technically, an ECO cannot refuse an application based on a previous application, how much weight do previous applications have?

We were refused a visit visa, and our application was badly misinterpreted. For example, at the time we applied for a visit visa we had not met in person. However, in our naivety, we stated that we had met in the internet in 2004. The ECO misinterpreted this, and said "Considering you have met your sponsor once, in 2004, we cannot..."

I am quite categoric that we didn't say we met in person, we thought that meeting meant meeting in the sense of making aquantence, and specified the meeting was in the net.

I guess I am just at the nervous and waiting stage, where everything is in their hands whilst waiting for this fiancee visa. Would this work against us? If we had the right to appeal a VV refusal, we would have been able to clarify this.

[aromulus]

I think that you actually have to meet in person once at least, or a couple of times to be on the safe side, with supporting photographic evidence to show. Flight tickets stubs, hotel receipts and all that malarkey.

To my mind, a previous refusal would not weigh against a fresh application, provided all the evidentiary paperwork is sound and complete.

Appealing against the first refusal would have got you nowhere as you admit, you only met on the internet and not in person.

How do I qualify to join my husband, wife or civil partner in the UK?


You must show that:

• you are legally married to each other or are in a civil partnership recognised in the UK
• your husband, wife or civil partner is present and settled in the UK (see the next section)
• you both intend to live together permanently as husband and wife or as civil partners
• you have met each other before
• you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds
• you have suitable accommodation, which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
• your husband, wife or civil partner is not under 21, and
• you are not under 21.

I am sure that some other members will agree with my assumption, and will be able to give you more input.

Good luck in your new application.

[Ady]

Thanks Mr Aromolus,

Just getting a little paranoid about it, it's natural right?

We were refused on a Visit Visa in 2006, since then we have met in person twice. I was just wondering how theyy treat previous refusals. I mean, the rules are that previous applications should not be used as a point of refusal.

By the way, the Visit Visa was refused because they didn't believe that I would spend upto £3,000 on her vacation here, considering we only met once in 2004 (but our meeting was in the internet, not in person and that was stated in my letter if my memory serves me correctly).

We were refused too, because Shei had no reason to return home, but we were also refused because she would have left her elderly parents behind!!!! A little contradictory if you ask me.

Now I am getting paranoid about them cross checking the applications. I respect the reasons behind the Visit Visa being refused, and have brought those lessons (plus the great advice from this site) into this application.

I saw Philip's refusal for a fiance visa before, and one reason was based on his fiance's earlier refusal for a visit visa where he wasn't named (I think they didn't even know each other when his fiance applied).

Maybe I am making this more complicated than it needs to be. It's in the hands of the ECO now anyway.

[darren-b]

I saw Philip's refusal for a fiance visa before, and one reason was based on his fiance's earlier refusal for a visit visa where he wasn't named (I think they didn't even know each other when his fiance applied).

Part of Philip's problem was his fiancee didn't mention him when she applied for a visit visa, but then when she applied for her fiancee visa they admitted that had known each other when she applied for a visit visa.

If your fiancee told the truth and gave all relevant information when she applied for the visit visa the fact that she was refused shouldn't cause you any problems.

[Ady]

That is what I am thinking now too. It's just I don't know where they got the impression that we met in 2004 from - when I distinctly remember saying it was in the internet that we first "met". I am confident that we satisfy all the criteria in this application. The visit visa was refused in 2006, and a lot has happened in 2 years, including us now becoming fiancees.

Nothing is insurmountable, as we can all testify, but our dreams are almost in sight, and that makes things a little stressful :pullouthair:

Thanks Darren...

[joebloggs]

they should always take a fresh look at the application at hand regardless of a previous refusal unless there are compelling instances i.e. false docs..

[AJS]

hey,,on the other side, we had a successful visit visa granted last year, would that help our application for the fiance visa and give us extra suport on our application?

AJS

[aromulus]

hey,,on the other side, we had a successful visit visa granted last year, would that help our application for the fiance visa and give us extra suport on our application?

AJS

I guess so.

Not forgetting that all applications are judged on their own merits, ie. comprehensive and exact documentation and requirements.

A "plus" would be for the ECO to get out from the right side of the bed on the morning in question....

[PAT]

I am worried same thing with you Ady, I had visit visa refused and we met only once just this November in Singapore ( a holiday treat for ourselves from disappointments and stress ). But I try to think the line which aromulus stated """Once at least / you have met each other before """. Our documents are not completed yet.When did you lodge your application?....

[Mrs.JMajor]

When did you lodge your application?....

That is what i wanted to ask too

[keithAngel]

Part of Philip's problem was his fiancee didn't mention him when she applied for a visit visa, but then when she applied for her fiancee visa they admitted that had known each other when she applied for a visit visa.

If your fiancee told the truth and gave all relevant information when she applied for the visit visa the fact that she was refused shouldn't cause you any problems.

That's true but the sponsor was her Aunt and whilst Philip and Frances had met on line and both thought it would be an excellent opportunity to meet in person the application was clearly to visit a relative .

I understand your concern Ady but I'm sure you have covered all the bases and will get the result you are looking for in the fullness of time.

It is a time you might choose to savour, anticipation of all the wonderful karaoke and dried fish for you and your neighbors still to come

[GaryFifer]

This is my thinking about visit visa. I hope someone can improve on it. I was under the impression about the rules of visit visa is that you are here for holiday, and its their discretion how long the visit is for.

Visit visa the authorities are always suspicious that it will only be a visit. They press when the Filipina will go home, and have they go enough funds for the trip.

If you have no job, why would you go back? Where are you staying(most important)? Have you got enough money? When you are at the UK what reason would you go back to Philippines. Do you have a return ticket. When will you return to work. Whos paying your rent back home?

They always think people will disappear into the system or not be at the location they stated.

[darren-b]

That's true but the sponsor was her Aunt and whilst Philip and Frances had met on line and both thought it would be an excellent opportunity to meet in person the application was clearly to visit a relative .

And that is witholding information. She should have mentioned when applying for a visit visa that she would be meeting someone she had met online. Especially as Philip admitted that they would have met when she applied for a fiancee visa "i did state in my supporting letter that when frances was denied her visit visa that i just had to go to the philippines to meet her"

[keithAngel]

An interesting point of view Darren but for my self reading the "family visit visa application " I see no such requirement it does ask if you will be visiting any other family members other than the sponsor but no where does it either ask if you will meet a UK national nor should it in my view.

In the case you mention neither had met and although it is true that the refusal catalyzed a reverse visit soon after , it could have as easily, have been the trigger to stop

If one were to go to visit ones Auntie and incidental take the opportunity to meet someone or ten people previously met on line there are many possible out comes including the realisation that this person was simply a figment of ones own projection ,a pleasant meal does not imply any contractual obligation, no face would be lost on either side

Quiet different to a Fiance visa for example which states an intention to marry although that may not be the outcome.

If such a requirement existed it would need to be unequivocally asked on the application and I having read it I don't see it

Honesty and transparency do not require an intrusive confessional mind set as privacy is a basic right of the individual in my view It is quite different from the applicant that intends to overstay and will lie about everything.

Its a dangerous slope to give credence to this idea IMHO as if a successful applicant for a family visa set out that they would be meeting a UK national and nothing came of that meeting they might have any further applications questioned along the lines of well the last one didn't work out etc

This is different to perhaps having already met someone developed a romantic connection and then attempting to manipulate the system by getting ones Aunt to sponsor whilst having only the intention to visit ones lover, not that I agree with that , but that within current rules would be grounds for refusal.

[joebloggs]

i have heard of other people being refused a visa becuase they failed to mention that they had a relationship with a brit, but didn't mention it on the visa app in additional info section, sure it may not ask you if you have a relationship with someone, but you have to admit it would be important for the embassy to know and the reasons why you failed to mention it..

eg someone applies for a VV, and goes back, then later applies for a fiancee visa, then mentions they had a 'oline relationship' for x years, and this relationship was not mention on the VV app, then they could say you obtained the VV dishoneslty by not mentioning the real reason you applied for the visa..


petty, i know but tell a lie, wave your visa goodbye ..

[keithAngel]

My view on that Joe is that I might chat to 20 people on line for 20 years but that if I have not met the person would not allow me to support say a fiance visa application and since having "met " the person is the test why would I wish to add a rule that doesn't exist We are not talking here about a Brit being the reason for the visit (as has been stated here many times there is a low success rate for this) but a family visit application

[darren-b]

My view on that Joe is that I might chat to 20 people on line for 20 years but that if I have met the person would not allow me to support say a fiance visa application and since having "met " the person is the test why would I wish to add a rule that doesn't exist We are not talking here about a Brit being the reason for the visit (as has been stated here many times there is a low success rate for this) but a family visit application

The problem is if there was a single Brit and it was more than a casual online relationship (shown by evidence sent to support a fiancee visa) prior to the family visit then the BIA will wonder about how truthful the application for the family visit was ie the real purpose, who paid for it, where you stayed, etc.

As a lot of the immigration process is based on the BIA believing that you are genuine you don't want them starting to wonder how genuine you are, as they can give you a hard time, or at worse refuse you.

In the case being mentioned here they actually state that the Brit visited the Philippines because the Filipina didn't get her family visit visa hence admitting that her application for the family visa was not totally genuine.

[acs]

ady..
I was also denied a visit visa before in 2005 to visit my now husband,( haven't been yet to this helpful forum at that time) but when i applied for my spouse visa this last week of sept. I just got the result yesterday after exactly 10 weeks of passing it at vfs... its visa granted without an interview....i can say to you that the embassy do take a fresh look at the second application on hand. So just dont get too nervous, as long as you and your fiancee followed the advices ...everything will be alright.
God bless always...

Collin and Aileen

[silver13]

We had no trouble with a visit visa, being granted, but the amount of supporting evidence we supplied was great, almost as much as our Fiancée Visa!!! My wife as she is now was held in immigration for 3 hours and they called me in the airport, really they wanted to send her home, but they could not find any reason to do so especially after their call to me. The guy said I should have applied for a Fiancée Visa as we was already engaged after I had met her in the Philippines and he asked why the Visit Visa, I just told them the truth and said that I just wanted to make sure that life in the UK and the cold weather was something that Anilyn could live with and I also asked him if he would marry a woman who he had met on the internet, had many hours of telephone calls, thousands of emails and only visited once!!! He said you have a point and let her go. We got to spend a wonderful 6 months together while we prepared to make our Fiancée Visa application and now we are married and had our first wedding anniversary last month and as they say the rest is history :-)

As long as you are honest on the forms and follow all the advice you find in this forum and provide lots and lots of supporting evidence then there should be no problem with you application being approved. If you fail to provide this then you will be upset again :-( I cannot stress enough how important it is to provide all this information.

Just a brief run down on what you should have sent, Telephone bills proving conversations and texts, Proof of accommodation, wage slips, bank statements, internet chat logs and copies of emails, photographs of you both together, copies of any letters you sent each other. Letter of invite, there are some good examples of what to write in this forum and a letter from you boss stating how long you have worked and what salary. Have I missed anything? Hope this helps reassure you that what you have provided is enough.

Hoping you will be successful this time and good luck.

[keithAngel]

In the case being mentioned here they actually state that the Brit visited the Philippines because the Filipina didn't get her family visit visa hence admitting that her application for the family visa was not totally genuine.

Neither You ,I or the F.O. are in any position to judge the genuineness of the application in this case the key factor ,as I see it is that the refusal led to an earnest desire to meet quickly, then carried out but without any possible foreknowledge of the result but that does not indicate that the original application was not genuine , unless anyone would suggest that there is no Aunt to visit,.

The reason I am adamant on this point is simply that to support the subsequent refusal by The C.O. to a fiance visa is tantamount to agreeing to divination on their part, nobody lied or was even economical with the truth

[PAT]

Hello silver 13,your post inspires us , glad you did as i have worries about this matter too. I understand how Ady feels. To Ady, let's hope positively, I am now waiting for my fiance's documents to lodge soon.

[darren-b]

Neither You ,I or the F.O. are in any position to judge the genuineness of the application in this case the key factor ,as I see it is that the refusal led to an earnest desire to meet quickly, then carried out but without any possible foreknowledge of the result but that does not indicate that the original application was not genuine , unless anyone would suggest that there is no Aunt to visit,.

The reason I am adamant on this point is simply that to support the subsequent refusal by The C.O. to a fiance visa is tantamount to agreeing to divination on their part, nobody lied or was even economical with the truth

The F.O. are in a position to judge the genuineness of an application for a visa or an attempt to enter the UK. The presence of a British 'partner' (even if at that point they haven't met) will always make the ECO suspicious about the true intentions of an application for a visa, especially if it was hidden from them at some point. No one is suggesting there is no Aunt, but one could wonder who exactly was paying for the trip and where the applicant was staying, all of which I believe is asked for on the application form.

If the ECO is suspicious of you they can make life harder for you when you apply for any subsequent visas - forcing you to attend an interview, or going through your supporting documentation in more detail, all of which could increase your chances of being refused.

[PeterB]

My wife as she is now was held in immigration for 3 hours and they called me in the airport, really they wanted to send her home...

I think that the same might have happened to Ruby if I hadn't been traveling with her. The immigration officer was adamant that she needed to be in possession of a return ticket in order to enter the country on a visitor visa. After a ten minute discussion he relented and Ruby was allowed through.

[joebloggs]

I do not think there is a strict rule of law that says one must posses a return ticket, but the IO may need to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that there is intent for you to return after the visit. There are many ways to prove this: proof of employment, assets, family ties e.t.c. However a return ticket is another strong indicator of intent to return.


Do I need to bring any documents with me to the UK?

On arrival, an immigration officer may ask you to show evidence of your reasons for coming to the UK. This may include travel tickets, evidence of funding, letters from your sponsor or businesses you are visiting, or schools you will study at. You should carry in your hand luggage copies of documents that you showed to the entry clearance officer.