Cults

[KeithD]

Meaning:
In religion and sociology, a cult is a cohesive group of people (often a relatively small and recently founded religious movement) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be far outside the mainstream. Its separate status may come about either due to its novel belief system, because of its idiosyncratic practices or because it opposes the interests of the mainstream culture. Other non-religious groups may also display cult-like characteristics.


The Wako disaster in the USA in the 90's was a religeous cult, the Japanese gas attacks where by a cult, 1978- Christian cult "the Peoples' Temple" leader Jim Jones allegedly kills 913 people with cyanide-laced Kool Aid. People trying to escape the compound are shot.....etc....all classed as cults......and Christians at that.....so why are they not referred to as Christian Fundamentalists/Terrorists?

Why are not the Muslim Fundamentalists referred to as a cult?.....This then removes them from mainstream Muslims which I consider the correct way of referring to them, instead of throwing them all under one banner.

We don't refer to what happened at Wako as Christian terrorism......it's a religeous cult.

[Eljohno]

I recently watched the Waco thing on tv, that guy was completely nuts and even now they have built a church near where it all happened and the cult is still going.

What happened there had nothing to do with Christianity as he just quoted some scripture and twisted it to suit what he wanted.

[KeithD]

But christianity bears no resemblence to what the initial writings where. Read the scriptures as they were written, and you'll be lucky if you recognise any of it.

[Eljohno]

But christianity bears no resemblence to what the initial writings where. Read the scriptures as they were written, and you'll be lucky if you recognise any of it.

Well Keith as much as i disagree with you its your forum and you have the freedom to speak your mind....

[KeithD]

A lot of the problems stemmed from the fact some of the gospels were written decades after the said event, and then during early translations many mistakes were made.

Add to that the early Catholic church hid the Gospel of Judas beacuse they didn't agree with it, and also the written manuscripts that John the Baptist was the 2nd Son of God, with Jesus being the 3rd, you can see how easily it all got mixed up.

The main reason for many religeons is differnet meanings given to early translations, and understandings, and from different sources over a vast timeline.

Take baptism for one example, it is a common religeous act today in the name of God and his Son, but nowhere in the gospels is Jesus shown baptizing anyone. Here John is participating in what may have been a popular activity in its day, enacted long before the birth of Jesus.

[Eljohno]

Some people suggest that Bible believers contradict one another because parts of the Bible contradict other parts. Or perhaps the Bible is in error or inaccurate on some points.
John 17:17; Psalms 119:128; 33:4 - God's word is truth. It is always right and can never be wrong. And truth will never contradict other truth.
Mark 3:24,25 - A house or kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. If the Bible contradicts itself, then God would be divided against Himself.
1 Corinthians 1:13 - The Corinthians were divided and confused. Was this because Jesus contradicted Himself and led them into confusion? No! Christ is not divided against Himself.
God's word is infallible, harmonious and unified. It cannot be wrong, and it cannot contradict itself. If people disagree with the Bible, then it is the people who are wrong, not the Bible - Romans 3:4.

[Eljohno]

Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Ignorance causes confusion and division.
Matthew 22:24 - The Sadducees were in error because they did not know the Scriptures.
Romans 10:1-3 - The Israelites had zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Many circumstances may lead to a lack of knowledge of the truth. Consider some of them.
1. Some people simply have never had opportunity to learn the truth.

This was the case of Cornelius (Acts 10:1-11:18) and the Ethiopian treasurer (Acts 8:26-39). Such people need to hear words whereby they can be saved (Acts 11:14).
2. Some people simply do not study the Bible diligently enough.

To discern good from evil, we must have our senses exercised by reason of use - Hebrews 5:12-14. We must "search the Scriptures daily" - Acts 17:11. Much religious error and division result from lack of study.
3. Some people do not handle the Bible properly - 2 Timothy 2:15.

Even if a person studies and quotes the Bible, he may not be using it properly (Matt. 4:5-7).
For example, some people try to prove their practices by the Old Testament, not knowing it has been removed by Christ and is no longer in effect (Rom. 7:2-6; Heb. 10:9,10; Gal. 3:24,25; Col. 2:14,16).
Other people take only part of the Bible teaching about a subject but ignore other verses on the same subject. As a result, they reach conclusions that contradict other Scriptures (Matt. 4:4-7; Acts 3:22,23; Matt. 28:20).
We can truly be made free from sin only if we know the truth - John 8:32.

[Eljohno]

Gospel of Judas - Why Isn't It Accurate?
The Gospel of Judas is considered "Gnostic" in origin. Generally, Gnostics hold that salvation of the soul comes from a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of secret formulae indicative of that knowledge. The gospel according to Judas is simply a heretical forgery like the Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Philip.

We now have over 25,000 ancient texts and fragments confirming the legitimate biblical accounts. Maybe there’s a reason we’ve only found one copy of the Gospel of Judas laying in an ancient trash heap in the back of a solitary cave. Just as Judas betrayed Jesus Christ, this gospel has betrayed the truth of God.

[KeithD]

We now have over 25,000 ancient texts and fragments confirming the legitimate biblical accounts.

...based on original transcripts and translations, yes, original themselves....no.

[mupsuit]

A lot of the problems stemmed from the ......

Keith - this is probably the truest comment you have ever made - here is my take on the subject which I hope will be of some use to our newly wed members as they start up in the UK

__________________


I like the words written by the English poet - John Dryden (during the reign of Charles ll) concerning the authenticity of the bible as we know it today

quote

Whence but from Heaven, could men unskilled in arts
In several ages born, in several parts,
weave together such agreeing truths
or how or why should all conspire to cheat us with a lie?

Unasked their pains, ungrateful their advice
starving their gains and
Martyrdom their price

unquote

I don't have the education to query the contents of the King James version which Dryden refers to here, but I am happy to accept the decision of those who, by Royal Appointment, brought it all together in translation.

Today I use a more modern version which tells the same truths but in modern English.

My Filipino wife was brought up in a church going family and together we try to bring up our daughter to respect the same values -

We never start a meal with saying Grace and our little one never goes to bed without sharing in family prayers - She is 10 , and it is the high-light of my day to hear her open her heart and say what is on her mind

We believe, based on our individual experiences, that this is the basis for a successful family life and helps maintain a balance when sometimes a cross cultural or language difficulty arises

Most Filipino girls have a great respect for religion, sadly some are obliged to practice it in their hearts only

To those newer members of the forum who's excitement is palpable as we read the posts on visa applications and subsequent progress I would ask them to find out how their wife feels about this subject and give them support and encouragement when they arrive in the UK

Go with them to church on Sundays and feel the 'sun shine' for the rest of the week

I do

[KeithD]

Filipino's are religious only because the West slaughtered those that did not convert......remember....the Inca's would not convert, so the Spanish wiped them out.....now that is one way of getting the message out ....and yet even now, we kill each other for differing beliefs.

There are only 2 forces that control everything, nature & gravitational energy on a quantum level. Whatever we do, believe in, etc, they are the ultimate forces that will decide the fate of every atom, quark, neutrino, etc..

I always wonder what happened to the souls of those in the previous 198,000 years preceeding Jesus.....worshipping false Gods and all that.....no belief.....sleeping around......killing your neighbour for food.....Hell must be full already!! Poor souls.

[Eljohno]

God never judges righteous people in the same way that He judges the wicked. It is clear throughout the ages, that many people, prior to Christ birth, lived good lives. The question is: How did they live such good lives without Christ saving them? The answer: they could not without salvation. So how could Christ save people before His coming to die on the Cross?
Here is the answer: First of all, Christ birth was not the time that Christ existed. He has always existed, because He is God the Son; He just did not have a flesh and blood body prior to His birth. However, He is the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world (Rev 13:8). So before His birth, God credited Christ death as an “I owe you.” Just like you write down I owe you to someone, you promise that one day you will pay it. The same is true of God. Before Christ came to the earth, God promised all people that one day He will pay for their debt, and so he counted their debts paid even before Christ died.

In conclusion, people prior to the birth of Christ were saved through Him by His wisdom. They were not saved in the sense of being born again and filled with the Spirit, but they were saved with the meaning of being forgiven by God. They did not enter heaven upon their death, because the way for heaven was not made available until Christ ascension, however they were in paradise (see Luke 16:19-31). During Christ ascension they were then carried into heaven with Him. That is where they are today—in heaven with Christ.

[Eljohno]

[quote=Win2Win]


There are only 2 forces that control everything, nature & gravitational energy on a quantum level. Whatever we do, believe in, etc, they are the ultimate forces that will decide the fate of every atom, quark, neutrino, etc..


All the best Keith with this when you stand before God on judgement day

[Alfie]

Has anyone read the "True Life In God" messages - Jesus coming thru the handwriting of Vassula Ryden? All the messages can be seen online:
http://www.tlig.org/en/messages/

Even the CDF (Catholic something something) are even taking them seriously!
It was my wife who introduced me to these.

And has anyone read any of the "Conversations with God" series by Neale Donald Walsch? - For me, these explain alot of the misconceptions that can come out of interpreting scripture, and puts spirituality in perspective with religion.
It seems to me that it holds the key to Unity on Earth even! So needed in our current times of violence and destruction.

If i go only with scripture and TLIG, things look like we're already in the "End Times". Not a good prospect for bringing children into the world! But with "Conversations with God" there seems to still be hope for Humanity if we can pull our finger out.

[KeithD]

So needed in our current times of violence and destruction.

Current times! It has been so since the first base proteins formed on the planet, and continues to this day. That's a few billion years, and will continue down the same route for a few billion more. Anybody who thinks we will ever have world peace is in cloud cookoo land.....and by the time the Sun goes nova in 5 billion years ......Oh no.....no more horse racing

[KeithD]

I'd like to know why Christians only worship one God?

In the Old Testament, Genesis 1:26, no matter what translation you use, it says;

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


OUR is an adjective, The possessive form of WE. Which in basic translation means more than one! So who are the other Gods?

Just wondering what the explanation was, and who decided to just worship IT instead of WE.

[baboyako]

[KeithD]

Is that where the collection goes?

[Eljohno]

I'd like to know why Christians only worship one God?

In the Old Testament, Genesis 1:26, no matter what translation you use, it says;

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


OUR is an adjective, The possessive form of WE. Which in basic translation means more than one! So who are the other Gods?

Just wondering what the explanation was, and who decided to just worship IT instead of WE.

As i Christian we only worship the one true God of the bible.
God is a trinity as in FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT.

We were created by a creater and not cos of the so called big bang theory. To believe we evolved from monkeys is so silly and belongs in the humour section.

Evolution is nothing more than a man made religion.

[Eljohno]

Has anyone read the "True Life In God" messages - Jesus coming thru the handwriting of Vassula Ryden? All the messages can be seen online:
http://www.tlig.org/en/messages/

Even the CDF (Catholic something something) are even taking them seriously!
It was my wife who introduced me to these.

And has anyone read any of the "Conversations with God" series by Neale Donald Walsch? - For me, these explain alot of the misconceptions that can come out of interpreting scripture, and puts spirituality in perspective with religion.
It seems to me that it holds the key to Unity on Earth even! So needed in our current times of violence and destruction.

If i go only with scripture and TLIG, things look like we're already in the "End Times". Not a good prospect for bringing children into the world! But with "Conversations with God" there seems to still be hope for Humanity if we can pull our finger out.

Anything that says it is of God but contradicts the bible is not of God....

[baboyako]

Is that where the collection goes?

Let us make man in our image

http://bible.cc/genesis/1-27.htm

ASV: And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

BBE: And God made man in his image, in the image of God he made him: male and female he made them.

DBY: And God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

KJV: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

JPS: And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

WBS: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

WEB: God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.

YLT: And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.

I dont think any of those quotes are copywrited

[aromulus]

Fundamentalist Christians..... Whatever next????

[KeithD]

As i Christian we only worship the one true God of the bible.
God is a trinity as in FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT.

We were created by a creater and not cos of the so called big bang theory. To believe we evolved from monkeys is so silly and belongs in the humour section.

Evolution is nothing more than a man made religion.

Eyes wide shut springs to mind.

Religeon is man made, we know that as it was man who wrote it. However evolution is not designed by man (or woman ), and can be only ignored by those who live in a cocoon.

Whether there is a God or not, whether Dark Energy exists or not can not yet be proven one way or the other, but you don't go worshipping Dark Energy even though people have written 'bibles' about it.

It is only written as a HE because women were persecuted by most cultures in those days, and classed as a lower species, so no way would the guys writing the stories put a woman as the boss. Which part of the bible is written by a woman exactly?

All the best Keith with this when you stand before God on judgement day

And will these religeous folk make there mind up? Is there a judgement day? Yet they say all are forgiven? Yo what use would a judgement day be then? If I went and murdered everyone on the planet, would I then not be helping them to quicker enlightenment and a better life? And will be praised for it?


I go thorugh life helping others, being nice to folk, kind, understanding, etc. That is what life is all about. If some folk say that is Christian values, fine with me, but it is also Islamic values, and Hindu values. My job on this world is to suffer myself, but help others. I suceed well on both subject, and that is my life done If after I die, this God of yours decides to turn me away based on the fact I use HIS installed ability to question things, then that is not what said religeon is supposed to be about. So make your mind up!

[Alfie]

Anything that says it is of God but contradicts the bible is not of God....

The New Testament contradicts the Old...

It wouldn't be so surprising if we are at another transition, like it did from the Old to the New...
They accused Jesus of being of the Devil even! Just shows how easy it can be to evaluate something new that seems to contradict the old.

Anyway, TLIG doesn't contradict the bible. Although C.withGod does a bit. But then Jesus did **** off the Jewish "Leaders"...

[Alfie]

why did it edit out "sl*g"?

[walesrob]

why did it edit out "sl*g"?

That will be the swear filters Alfie.

[Eljohno]

Eyes wide shut springs to mind.

Religeon is man made, we know that as it was man who wrote it. However evolution is not designed by man (or woman ), and can be only ignored by those who live in a cocoon.

Whether there is a God or not, whether Dark Energy exists or not can not yet be proven one way or the other, but you don't go worshipping Dark Energy even though people have written 'bibles' about it.

It is only written as a HE because women were persecuted by most cultures in those days, and classed as a lower species, so no way would the guys writing the stories put a woman as the boss. Which part of the bible is written by a woman exactly?


And will these religeous folk make there mind up? Is there a judgement day? Yet they say all are forgiven? Yo what use would a judgement day be then? If I went and murdered everyone on the planet, would I then not be helping them to quicker enlightenment and a better life? And will be praised for it?


I go thorugh life helping others, being nice to folk, kind, understanding, etc. That is what life is all about. If some folk say that is Christian values, fine with me, but it is also Islamic values, and Hindu values. My job on this world is to suffer myself, but help others. I suceed well on both subject, and that is my life done If after I die, this God of yours decides to turn me away based on the fact I use HIS installed ability to question things, then that is not what said religeon is supposed to be about. So make your mind up!

Religion is mans way of trying to find God but Christianity is God's way of reaching down to man..

The bible was wrote by man but inspired by the Holy Spirit..

There is a judgement day that is certain but if someone has not repented of their sins, trusted in Jesus Christ as their Saviour then they will be judged.
I do not want anyone to think i am smug and a know - it - all because i am not.Everything that i am saying is from the bible and not my words. It is not my intention to offend anyone as everyone has the free will to believe what they want.

I realise that doing good works like helping people is very important in life and i will not knock anyone for doing that.

[Eljohno]

The New Testament contradicts the Old...

It wouldn't be so surprising if we are at another transition, like it did from the Old to the New...
They accused Jesus of being of the Devil even! Just shows how easy it can be to evaluate something new that seems to contradict the old.

Anyway, TLIG doesn't contradict the bible. Although C.withGod does a bit. But then Jesus did **** off the Jewish "Leaders"...

What is TLIG?

I disagree that the New Testament contradicts the Old.

The Bible if studied correctly will iron out any contradictions that people thinks that it has......

[Eljohno]

[quote=Win2Win]:doh :NoNo: Eyes wide shut springs to mind. 

Thats fine Keith if you think i live in a cocoon or that i am blind but is it any different to people believing that Evolution which is only a theory is actually truth?

[KeithD]

Evolution is NOT a theory....do you not understand what archeology is? Microchondrial DNA? The divergence of the human species? Try keeping up with science before trying to put a point forward.

Answer me this. In Genesis it says "and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground". No argument about that bit of the fairy tale.

So why does he not include whales & dolphins? I tell you shall I. Because they were thought to be fish 2000 years ago.......God made a mistake defining his own creations!!