Affivavit of Support

[EdwardB]

Friday January 2 and Phillippines immigration at Davao have just refused to let my girlfriend board the Cebu Pacific flight to Hong Kong without an "affidavit of support"

She is 26, has a bank account and is not exactly poor. But she has never been abroad/used her passport before.

We have been going out for 3 years and see each other for a week at a time up to 5 times each year. She also does some work for both my UK & Hong Kong companies. So we talk to each other everyday at least once.

I'd really appreciate some guidance on this so she can get on the Monday night flight to Hong Kong.

1. Was this really legitimate?
2. Is their a way round it? It will be tricky to get something signed by a Philipines consulate/embassy in the timescale.

Frankly I find it downright bizarre that a 26 year old, who is bringing business in to The Philippines and is capable of supporting herself on a weeks visit to Hong Kong is subjected to such pain & humiliation.

But then again I have never expected much from an immigration service that quite unbelievably uses the e-mail contact address philimigatwarmplacedotwhatever on landing cards.

Thanks in anticipation

[EdwardB]

By the lack of response - & also lack of information despite in depth searching on the web - this may be a new issue.

So thanks to all who have read - the read count looks high.

Having spent the best part of a valuable Saturday, that should have been of leisure with Ana Lyn, visiting the Giant Buddah by day & dinner & clubbing at dragon-i , I'm coming to the conclusion that this was an illegal act by immigration at Davao airport - and also a serious breach of human rights.

Despite consultation I have found no legal foundation for the request for an "Affadivit of Support". Anyway in International Law it would be a difficult request to argue for by any government if a passport has been granted to a citizen.

Ana Lyn was one of 5 females denied attempted boarding at Davao for 5J724 to Hong Kong on January 2 2009. (Cebu Pacific must know this and are therfore in my opinion complicit in an illegal act by selling tickets they know will not be used for travel.)

Apparently no males were denied passage through immigration for boarding!!! Sexism?? Draw your own conclusion.

Help please. I know I sound Bolshi but I do need help!

Has anyone else experienced this in The Philippines from any port of exit?

Or is it something that has been invented by immigration (SIC) at Davao airport?!

Please help.

(PS I'm very proud of Ana Lyn. She has handled this with her usual professional stoicism - credit to the strength of Filipinas.)

[PeterB]

We are puzzled by this, and find it difficult to believe that it's legitimate.

It may be worth checking the BI website for any pointers on this matter.

I would also suggest contacting the main BI office in Davao - but of course, she can't do this until Monday morning.

[PeterB]

This page: BI travel requirements for filipinos makes no mention of an affidavit of support and a search across the BI site for 'Hong Kong' returns nothing.

[johncar54]

My friends fiancée had a similar problem a few weeks ago.

This is a copy of the letter I faxed to Immigration. It was not sworn but it was accepted. She had a copy of my passport and credit card as I had paid for the flight.

She flew the following day, paying 100$ for the change of flight.

Hope this is helpful


COPY OF MY LETTER


FAX .0063 2 8795917 13th November, 2008.
Chief Immigration Officer.
Immigration Dept, R.O.P. Manila

RE Miss Arleen Dxx, Passport No. XX.

Who was booked on PAL flight PR730 on 13th November 2008, flying to Bangkok, with a return ticket to MNL on 9th December, 2008.

The original ticket was booked by me on-line and paid for on my VISA credit card, No. xxxx xxxxx xxxxx 6826.

I subsequently changed the return date to 9th December Ms Dxxxx. I sent the money for the additional payment to Ms Dxx and she paid in PAL office in Makati.

The reason for the trip is to meet her fiancé Carl XXXXXX, a personal friend of mine. The couple were introduced by me and my Filipino wife and Carl stayed in Manila with Ms Dxxxx a couple of months ago. They are booked to stay at Asia Pattaya Hotel, room 7xx, 352 Moo 12 Pratamnak Road. Nongprue, Pattaya City, Cholburi 20150 Thailand. Tel : +66(0)38 250401-11 Fax: +66(0)2 215 9005

In January Carl XXXX will travel to Manila, with documentation to permit him to marry Ms Dxxx in early February, 2009. They will then apply for a visa for Ms Dxxx, then Mrs Arleen XXXXX, to reside permanently in Spain.

I hereby undertake and guarantee, to be fully responsible for all costs for Mr Dxxx for her holiday in Thailand and for her return to Philippines. She has travel insurance which was arranged by Carl XXXX.




(John Cxxxxx )
C/ XXXXX
29640 Fuengirola,
Malaga, Spain
Tel / fax (34) 952 xxxxxx.


UK Passport Number 70xxxxxxxxx Copy attached.

Passport copied here on Original

[johncar54]

Further to the above.

I have had a heated exchange of emails with Immigration Bureau as I had asked them when I booked the flight what the passenger would need. They said, in an email, Passport and return ticket ONLY.

In the exchanges they said, sometimes the Immigration Officer wants more and that is a matter for that officer. (Guess I was wrong when 'coffee money' sprang to mind)

I am very annoyed at the way my friends fiancée was treated and I tried hard to get a refund of the extra flight charge and possibly compensation. Needless to say, unfortunately the Phil Gov does not seem to respect their citizens as maybe other countries do.

I decided against a trip to Phil this year, as planned, after the experience, although of course continue to support the Phil Gov by supporting my wife's family.

OK got that off my chest.

Happy new year to all.

[Mrs.JMajor]

. (Guess I was wrong when 'coffee money' sprang to mind)
Happy new year to all.

Was thought of the same thing john under the table,we call it

[Mrs.JMajor]

How come,We Filipino can go HK w/o a visa just for 2 weeks,i have been there Sept 2007 for 2 weeks

[PeterB]

The other thing that comes to our minds is that the agent or booking office would not have allowed the booking to be made without being sure that all the necessary documentation is in place. Where was the ticket booked?

Juliet has already said that she travelled to HK without any problem. Also, a filipina friend of Ruby's travelled Davao to HK last month, to meet her German boyfriend, without any difficulty.

However, we certainly know of others who have had to make 'under the table' payments in order to be allowed to board flights.

[joebloggs]

it does sound like a under the table payment scam..


if there was going to be a problem, then surely the airline would not let them board the plane without the correct visa/paper work to fly to HK. because it would be the airline that would be fined by the HK authorities if someone did land without the correct paperwork, so why would phils immigration be randomly involved in stopping people ?

did she get as far as booking in ? i take it she was if she was refused to board ? so she got as far as booking in and getting her ticket ?? if so the airline was happy with her paper work ?

[johncar54]

For interest.

This was the reply I got from BI when I asked what papers my friends fiancée would need:-



From: "BI Helpdesk" <xinfo@immigration.gov.ph>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:06 PM
>> To: "John Cxxxxxx" <joxxxx@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Bureau of Immigration, Philippines: Filipipno travelling to
>> Thailand as a tourist.
>>
>>> She only needs to present a valid passport and a confirmed return ticket
>>> at the airport of exit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The CFO stamp is only for immigrants and not for tourist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a nice day.

[aromulus]

Slick scam, huh........???

[reginacarlson]

Hello EdwardB. I used to work in a travel agency in the Philippines as a Sales and Reservations Officer for 3 years and had a few passengers who were denied boarding for Hong Kong (from Manila airport) because of 1 or 2 of the reasons below:

1. They are 1st time travellers/never been abroad before, and is travelling alone.
2. Passport is about to expire and only valid for 6 months or less.
3. Had no proof of accommodation in Hong Kong.
4. The way passengers carry themselves and the way they dress.

These passengers were denied regardless if they were flying via Philippine Airlines, Cebu Pacific or Cathay Pacific because the problem lies with the Philippine Immigration authorities. Some are either power tripping or in need of money under the table, and some just go strictly by the book. Reasons for these are due to a number of Filipina tourists who goes to Hong Kong to work illegally and never coming back to the Philippines. Under normal circumstances, a valid return ticket and passport is all that's needed to go to Hong Kong without a visa for a stay not exceeding 14 days.

However, at immigration's discretion, a proof of accommodation (hotel voucher or letter from sponsor/affidavit of support) may sometimes be required. I suggest that you fax your girlfriend a signed letter and a copy of your passport just like johncar54 did and indicate contact details as well should they need to speak with you and clarify the authenticity of the documents.

Hope this helps and don't worry, you'll be with your girlfriend soon.

[cheesewiz]

for the immigration points of view is they are trying to avoid filipinos to do illegal thing pretending as a tourist but still this is againts human rights don't you think? Every filipino people has the right to travel as long they are in the right age, right state of mind and legal passport and visas....but again Philippine Immigration is

[joebloggs]

but again Philippine Immigration is

but what's it got to do with the Philippine immigration department whether your papers are correct, that should be up to the airline your flying with and HK immigration when you land.

[cheesewiz]

but what's it got to do with the Philippine immigration department whether your papers are correct, that should be up to the airline your flying with and HK immigration when you land.

Oh Joe in Phils they always concerned on your papers/docs for any reasons may be bec of envie for sure when I left the Phils to go here with my UK visa even the people in the airline desk are whispering while looking for my visa i am not in the immigration desk yet.

[EdwardB]

Thanks to all for that flood of responses.

Yes I've got the message I was expecting - it is down to the arbitrary discretion of the immigration officer!!

Anticipating problems - at Hong Kong - Ana Lyn had already been provided with & was carrying;

1. Letter from me
2. Photocopy of my passport
3. Copies of the reservation in here name at The Sheraton in Kowloon.

She also had registration for the Hong Kong Gift Fair.

Today I have now spent 3 hours at The Philippines Consulate in Hong Kong dealing with paperwork and standing in lines. I have to go back at between 15.00 & 16.00 to collect the affidavit. Another 20 quid wasted on top of nearly 100 on phone calls on Friday night plus yet another rapacious charge from Cebu Pacific.

I am not amused!!

& if the Philippines government has a lurker on these forums - as they should have. Guys you have a problem. In 2006/7 I invested a huge amount of money in The Philippines that resulted in well paid employment of over 100 people. I am in the process of making a decision for a similar investment in 2009 with a choice between Manila, China & North Wales. I was also thinking of setting up a business in Davao. This on top of the problems I have had with Philippines petty administration before means that my final decision is likely to be as arbitrary as that immigration officer's was at Davao on Friday night!!!

[Mrs.JMajor]

Ohh,glad !!! nice to hear, you made it,enjoy the fun being together Edward/Ana lyn

[EdwardB]

Thanks again to all - we are thorougly enjoying each other's company. As of tomorrow my hectic schedule reduces so we can enjoy time together - but in classic Filipina style I have had total support - & Ana Lyn is fiesty otherwise I would never have been interested!!!

To be frank she was using her passport for the first time - because for 3 years she was coming back to Manila to meet me. But I thought I had pre-empted any issues.

Re Cebu Pacific - and "Always". I took it for what it was worth. As in "appens" not our fault, but read between the lines we make good money out of this!

Oh and Ana Lyn in HK & outside The Philippines for the first time is deliciously hilarious.

I told her ithe climate would be like cool air conditioning.

It is 20C (68F in old money) here. She is wearing 2 fleeces (I had the sense to bring them out with me). & on the Star Ferry this morning she wore a hat (branded with one of my products I must admit.). But she has even tried on gloves!!

A Chinese guy outside the convention center was in stitches watching us - me in polo shirt preening in the weak sun and her putting on a second fleece plus a beanie. I have never smiled and giggled so much in my life.

Back to a serious subject has anyone any experience in incoroporating a business in The Philippines? If so please PM. I have spent a fortune on sub-contracting but I have a concept that could really fly if the system doesn't make it too difficult to be worth the effort.

[dondi]

Back to a serious subject has anyone any experience in incoroporating a business in The Philippines? If so please PM. I have spent a fortune on sub-contracting but I have a concept that could really fly if the system doesn't make it too difficult to be worth the effort.

I used to run a resort in Palawan owned by a corporation based in the US. I was responsible in incorporating the business in the Philippines. It wasn't that complicated.. but then again it all depends on the type of business, composition of shareholders, capitalisation, etc.

What sort of business are you planning to put up?


Dondi

[EdwardB]

Thanks dondi, for the reply. It seems I can't be PM'd

I was looking up setting a studio to digitize peoples photos.

We'd look to bring in negatives (preferably rather than prints) & use high end scanners to digitize & return by e-mail/ftp/flickr. We may also offer the slightly luddite option of returning the negatives with prints, which may be attractive to the grey market who are the likely bulk of customers.

The skill set is readily available and the labor rates make the idea viable. It is also scaleable - & the available labor force is huge.

Where I have concerns are customs clearance and the costs of equipment given the very high relative costs of computers & components in The Philippines. Plus of course incorporation and who can effectively control.

I have sub contracted a lot of graphics work in to The Philippines over recent years. & apart from the inevitable delivery deadline issues the experience has been satisfactory.

[EdwardB]

Well I'm back in The UK - & Ana Lyn is back some 7,000 miles away in Davao.

She certainly found Hong Kong different from Manilla where we normally meet several times a year. She clearly enjoyed the experience although I suspect given her diet of fresh fruit, fish/chicken & rice the UK is going to be a challenge. Fortunately I cook pretty seriously & that is also pretty much my diet - plus I confess to some wine and odd bottle of lager.

But anyway - back to the reason for posting.

Despite an e-mail to the immigration commissioner in Manilla & copy to the immigration office in Davao we still had problems. Ana Lyn went to the Davao immigration office first thing last Monday. She was armed with all the paperwork but I still ended up talking through her online using YM, and by mobile, to an immigration officer. The fact he could see me on a cam clearly helped to persuade him to countersign the "Affidavit" as an approved copy!

Somehow the incident had got blown up and poor Ana Lyn was caught up in it. She was accused of telling the other girls who had been denied exit that the immigration officer who had refused her exit at Davao airport on Friday night had a tariff of 6,000 pesos. She denied - truthfully I hasten to add - any such knowledge. She was certainly telling the truth because I would have paid the 6,000 pesos and this thread would never have started!!

Smoke without fire?

Is this the tariff?

[dondi]

Yes, you're a newbie so can't be PMd

Looks like you're getting into a very competitive business with the likes of Kodak and Fuji as main rivals. In fact, they have photo shops all over the country and in major malls. However, I'm not entirely sure how you will set up your biz and you might be looking at tapping a niche market.

Generally, foreign ownership of corporations in the Phils is limited to 40% and 60% should be Filipino owned. There are exceptions of course but I don't think your business would qualify (see link below). Corporations and partnerships are registered in the Securities and Exchange Commission. They provide pro-forma application forms and it takes a few weeks for approval as long as you have the right info.

You may opt to register your business as single proprietorship and this is handled by the Department of Trade and Industry. Again, you may be restricted in terms of ownership with a few exceptions.

You will also have to register with the local government who issues business permits. Finally, for tax purposes, you need to register with the Bureau of Internal Revenue.

Having a local contact to do processing of permits and licenses would help but you have to be careful choosing someone trustworhty. If you have friends or wife's relatives who can help, the better. Otherwise, don't just trust anybody as there are lots of opportunistic individuals lurking around. The rule is 'deal with someone you know'.

These are just the minimum. Once ypur business has taken off, you need social security (SSS), health insurance (Philhealth) and other statutory benefits for your employees like 13th month pay at the end of the year.

It may sound scary but for a seasoned businessman, that's a given especially if you decide to do business outside your comfort zone... it's part of the risk, so they say.

Google the topic or see link below for more info:

http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/...ilippines/318/

Hope this helps.

Dondi

[EdwardB]

Thanks Dondi,

the links were very helpful.

& no I'm not looking to run into Fuji and/or Kodak. Positioning is a bit more niche than that.

Regards.