Shut Up!!!!!!!!!!!!

[somebody]

I don't support being overly PC. Please note that PC and morals are non-interchangeable terms. Many PC measures introduced have absolutely nothing to do with societal morals. Carol Thatcher has an oftentimes unfortunate tendency towards detachment from social sensitivities.

The 'Golliwog' was spawned from a social construct of racial and ethnic subordination. The use of the 'Golliwog' doll and other 'Golliwog' symbols are now widely regarded as invariable indicators racial insensitivity. This is because, as we all know, what counts most is how those associated with something they regard as offensive, feel as opposed to what it means for the use. I once had a South African colleague who was fleeing SA prior to the end of apartheid. He thought it quite funny to call me a Kaffir and other names that he said he regarded fondly, irrespective of how I or my other white colleagues felt about that.

‘Golliwogs’ and Little Black Sambo demeaned blacks and were regarded as injurious to the confidence of minority children. BTW, what is the origin of the word Sambo? One source, Websters, suggests that it may be derived from the word Nzambo which means monkey. From our perspective, what did these characters exhibit that we could feel happy about; there was plenty to be unhappy about. ‘Golliwogs’ were invariably illiterate, rude, and nefarious and could not be trusted. What did they evoke and perpetuate in the thoughts of non-black children as they played with them? What did blacks feel as they saw these symbols?

Irrespective of race, creed, etc. would anyone consider it a nice thing to perpetuate something that so negatively portrayed so many people at a time when those same people were already largely regarded with fear, suspicion and were already unwillingly credited with negatively changing the national landscape?

I’m not a fool; I know that many people have said overtly racist, ignorant things in the past. Some of my closest friends have admitted that they used to also. Of course a new level of enlightenment came to them following a severe beating :-) Only kidding. But seriously, I have even had some strange comments made about me and my ethnicity from a couple of forumers. I ignore it as those views are not important; what is important is that we ALL try to exercise acceptance, tolerance, respect and love.

Presumably, we are all capable of that at least to some degree, as most of us are in a loving relationship with someone with significant cultural differences to what we were raised with, di ba?

Live and let love!

A special hi to all my friends who see me for what I am - a shy, retiring and highly sensitive individual...sniff, sniff!

I quite agree with golliwogs all i knew of them as a tiny kid was the marmalade, but later i saw they were basically offensive to many west indian and african mates.

Strangley some British humour is about taking the gentle mickey out of differences ie ginger people and blondes. So i guess at first some people 30 or 40 years and more back inocently didn't see how it was offensive.

I actually have a bigger problem with some of those that see an ism in every thing as i notice many of them seem to have a big issue with race, disabilty, religion.
Id rather people treat everyone the same even if they do make the odd faux pa but learn from their mistake. Well thats life we live and learn.

[Piamed]

I quite agree with golliwogs all i knew of them as a tiny kid was the marmalade, but later i saw they were basically offensive to many west indian and african mates.

Strangley some British humour is about taking the gentle mickey out of differences ie ginger people and blondes. So i guess at first some people 30 or 40 years and more back inocently didn't see how it was offensive.

I actually have a bigger problem with some of those that see an ism in every thing as i notice many of them seem to have a big issue with race, disabilty, religion.
Id rather people treat everyone the same even if they do make the odd faux pa but learn from their mistake. Well thats life we live and learn.

I understand mate but ignorance (contextually, a lack of awareness or understanding) is no defence. A faux pas, false step, would be like taking a Japanese person's business card with one hand, putting it down on a table without looking at it and then using it as a coaster for a jug of sake. Becoming aware of the sentiments it caused to the person offering the card, one would certainly not do it again. That would be accepatable as you said, since they learn from their mistakes and were unaware of the effects of their actions.

What would be unacceptable would be doing the same thing to the same person and others in Japan over and over, whether in jest or complete dismissal of the distress it caused to others. That is essentially what use of the 'Golliwog' etc. means to some.

I am a huge fan of innuendo, sarcasm, double-entendre, puns, etc. but joking about hair colour and the associated national perceptions that go with it is not like joking about socially stigmatised and repressed blacks. I know you were not implying that it is, i'm just drawing the distinction.

Anyway, I've exhausted my contribution on this matter

Buenos Noches Muchachos!!!

[joebloggs]

but joking about hair colour and the associated national perceptions that go with it is not like joking about socially stigmatised and repressed blacks. I know you were not implying that it is, i'm just drawing the distinction.

but the end result can be the same social stigma and being an outcast , color is just one part of the problem.

[Piamed]

but the end result can be the same social stigma and being an outcast , color is just one part of the problem.

I agree that any form of social stigma is not good if it affects people negatively. Hair colour jokes are not even in the same universe as ethnicity ones though. The 'Golliwog' thing is not an issue of colour at all.

[joebloggs]

Hair colour jokes are not even in the same universe as ethnicity ones though

true, at least people with ginger hair can dye their hair if they want and be 'accepted', thou to me the one clarkson made about brown being one eyed is.

[Piamed]

true, at least people with ginger hair can dye their hair if they want and be 'accepted', thou to me the one clarkson made about brown being one eyed is.

I agree totally mate although they should not have to!

[joebloggs]

I agree totally mate!

but you've managed thru hard work to get where you are toks, many just want everything given to them, and not prepared to work for the rewards.


anyway tok's you've got bigger problems on your way, wait til you see what your little'un will get up to, i've spent 2hrs today taking part and drying his portable dvd player, after he soaked it with his spill proof cup , wall paper is ripped off, food found every where, scrawls on the doors and walls with paint and felt tips , thou i wouldn't change him for the world

all the best to you and your family

[Piamed]

but you've managed thru hard work to get where you are toks, many just want everything given to them, and not prepared to work for the rewards.


anyway tok's you've got bigger problems on your way, wait til you see what your little'un will get up to, i've spent 2hrs today taking part and drying his portable dvd player, after he soaked it with his spill proof cup , wall paper is ripped off, food found every where, scrawls on the doors and walls with paint and felt tips , thou i wouldn't change him for the world

all the best to you and your family

LOL!!! You are so right Joe. She has already declared her intent. She kicks her mum and then i put my hand there to feel it also. Nothing!! So I put my face on Pia's tummy to relax and then 'whack', she kicks me suddenly.

[joebloggs]

what you're in for toks

little joe at 2yrs old, at least another 14+yrs to go

and he's laughing his little head off, as he's one place he shouldn't be his sisters bed !

[Piamed]

Wow! What a cutie Joe. I can't wait to share pics of our little one.

[joebloggs]

Wow! What a cutie Joe. I can't wait to share pics of our little one.

as my Chinese friend use to say, "all kids are cute at that age"

as long as you don't start getting your holiday vids out




grand pa joe

[Belmontboy]

Ok, taking the disability out of the equation, I must agree with Jeremy.....

He is still a lying, un-elected to the post, moronic, kilt wearing, weasly north of the border idiot that single handedly brought this, once great country, to its knees.

I reckon that this Gov. destroyed any sense of britishness, and if Argentina invaded the Falklands again, nothing would be done to evict them.

How was it BROWN that brought the country to its knees ?

Scotland was brought to its knees by Mrs Thatcher in the 80's when she killed off our industry and used the Scots as gunnie-pigs for her Poll Tax. At least the labour government under Blair and Brown gave us a refferendum and a VOICE in parliament again.

It wasn't Brown who closed the mines, Ravenscraig, British Steel, and it wasn't Brown who intoruduced prescription charges, and privitised the energy and rail companies.

[Belmontboy]

Ok, taking the disability out of the equation, I must agree with Jeremy.....

He is still a lying, un-elected to the post, moronic, kilt wearing, weasly north of the border idiot that single handedly brought this, once great country, to its knees.

I reckon that this Gov. destroyed any sense of britishness, and if Argentina invaded the Falklands again, nothing would be done to evict them.

An what's wrong with Being Scottish and wearing a kilt ? I hope your not Stereotyping the Scots now. . . and a moderator on the site, shame on you.


And a supporter of Margaret Thatcher, calling Gordon Brown a Liar ????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[joebloggs]

How was it BROWN that brought the country to its knees ?

Scotland was brought to its knees by Mrs Thatcher in the 80's when she killed off our industry and used the Scots as gunnie-pigs for her Poll Tax. At least the labour government under Blair and Brown gave us a refferendum and a VOICE in parliament again.

It wasn't Brown who closed the mines, Ravenscraig, British Steel, and it wasn't Brown who intoruduced prescription charges, and privitised the energy and rail companies.

but brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer for more than 10yrs, and that puts a lot of blame on him

[aromulus]

An what's wrong with Being Scottish and wearing a kilt ? I hope your not Stereotyping the Scots now. . . and a moderator on the site, shame on you.

I am not stereotyping the scots at all, the kilt bit was just facetiously added.

And a supporter of Margaret Thatcher, calling Gordon Brown a Liar ????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Blair and Brown have been telling big porkies since they walked up Downing Street and took residence.
Maggie on the other hand, not one of my idols, didn't lie.....
She did not tell the whole truth, but only what she wanted you to know.

The first thing Blessed Gordon did was to sell the gold reserves for a pittance.
Gold that we sorely miss now to back the pound.

[KeithD]

Thatcher restructured a failing industry as other cheaper countries imported the same items. That is capatalism. Don't like it, move to N Korea

Brown spent all the profits during the good times, and still managed to run up a large national debt. Professional gamblers could see the present situation coming years ago.

[Belmontboy]

Thatcher restructured a failing industry as other cheaper countries imported the same items. That is capatalism. Don't like it, move to N Korea

Brown spent all the profits during the good times, and still managed to run up a large national debt. Professional gamblers could see the present situation coming years ago.

And what about Norman Lamont and the 4 billion he squandred on scottish Oil Revenue the last time the Tory's were in power ?

It's all too easy to blame individuals for what's happening in the world, and that's the problem, this BLAME culture we live in.
Whether people belive the current govenrment is responsible for the economic downturn of the country or not is a matter of continued debate, but the UK Population also has to take responsibility for some of its own problems. How many of the poeople who are blaming Brown no, actualy bothered to VOTE in the last election ? How many people actualy try to take action to HELP the country instead of just pointing the finger and blaming others. Gordon Brown is one man in a worldwide political Arena at a time when global monetray systems are in chaos. Not everybody agress with his policies, not everybody agrees with his ideas, in the same way that not everbody agreed with Thatcher's ideas and policys. My point is, people should be getting off their back sides and doing something ABOUT IT instead of blaming and pointing fingers. I only hope that in the next election, MORE people come out to vote, and vote for who they believe in to help the country get out of this mess. Anybody who fails to do that has no right to complain, or blame, or point fingers, and political apethy can be a VERY dangerous thing . if the American's can get up and vote then so can we.

[walesrob]

Scotland was brought to its knees by Mrs Thatcher in the 80's

Ah, that one again. Reminds me of a song with the line "Every generation blames the one before".

Both the parties are to blame for Britains problems. Let's see, I remember John Prescott telling the Labour Party conference in 1995 that if Labour came to power, they would bring Railways back in to public hands. In the last election, Labour promised NOT to privatise the Royal Mail.

Truth is, stuff the lot of them, I'm just saving the pounds to get out of this place.

[KeithD]

.....if the American's can get up and vote then so can we.

Have you visited the brainwashed dumbed down voting Yanks lately?

[somebody]

I agree that any form of social stigma is not good if it affects people negatively. Hair colour jokes are not even in the same universe as ethnicity ones though. The 'Golliwog' thing is not an issue of colour at all.

Wrote out a long reply to that how

The gist of it was but colour of hair jokes can be sometimes ethnic based.

Blonde and ginger jokes i would not be suprised if they go back to the days of pictish and anglo saxon being enemies and people to poke fun at?

Yes they can dye their hair but just as a Black person could speak to a person on the phone or be out of sight. The joke or insult would still be offensive.

I have seen some mikey taking, ribbing of people with red hair and the skin they have which comes with the genes and to a lesser extent some blonde people which if made about their skin would be classfied as racist and many of the examples so malicous and prolonged its not light hearted its some thing that really seems to be a big issue with the person doing the insulting.

When I have been in schools on business or traveling though central london I seen many asian and black kids ribbing the only white kid regarding their hair colour. Many occasions its good natured and meant as a form of friendship other times its the difference that is the issue.
Light hearted jokes or mistaken comment I think sensible people can handle but its the issues some people seem to have lurking inside them which worry me.

I have had people of all backgrounds make blonde jokes many of which just subsitute a Irish person, black person or another non acceptable to have a pop at nowdays.

I always like to have a bit of fun with some pc person who tells a blonde joke saying I used to be dumb when a child and in the sunshine. Once they click they like oh well its just a joke, not meant to be harmful. A senior member of our HR department said "oh sorry im just having a blonde moment".
I cant belive the asian lady would have said oh im having a white moment and would have be mortified if i implied i had a chinese or slitty eye moment if i something up.

Yes I know non asians can have surgery to alter there eyes to be more like a chinese person and chinese can dye there hair. But to me her reaction once she realised was more telling.

Many Black and asian young people at work tell blonde jokes and Irish ones and I see older Black and asian co workers wince as the younger ones dont realise if they changed the descrpition to one they call themselves or said it in a certain voice would have been poked at them once upon a time.

Sadly it seems its in many people from all background and type of genes to tell jokes to put down other people for some reason

[PeterB]

How many of the poeople who are blaming Brown no, actualy bothered to VOTE in the last election ?

Oh, I must have missed the one where we were allowed to vote on whether we wanted Brown as PM or not!