Hi Gemini63, so it will be shown again tonight.
" The people who mean something to your life are not rated "the best" don't have the most money, haven't won the greatest prizes....
They are the ones who care about you, take care of you, those who, no matter what, stay close by... "
good info gemini i think im gonna record this bcoz im working tonightOriginally Posted by gemini63
all things are possible!
thanks for sharing gemini, it seems to be the continuation of last sunday but this time they are more focus with sex and religion not with tourist attractions..
Il gonna watch it too ladies..Hope it will not create bad image to phil. this time.Reality is not hard to accept as long as it was shown and reported in a proper way with the pros and cons, disadvantage and advantages of the tackled subject...
Last night while flicking through the channels after The Brit Awards I found a programme called Dirty Sanchez on TMF channel. They were in Phil doing all sorts of stupid things. Started in Manila and went to Banaue (spelt right?)
It was quite funny as they raced down the mountain roads on wooden bikes!
It's on a bit late, so I'll be recording it and watching tomorrow.
Looks like it will be sensible contracption initiatives vs. Catholic doctrine. Should be only one winner there!
Thanks for the info!
You sure it was not our Welsh boyos on hereHave to look out for that they crack me up just plain stoopid.
Recorder set and will be watching the missus fav presenter in her fav country after blighty
Oh lord why did you make so many clothes and shoe shops
I saw that documentary on BBC IPlayer... It was strange looking at the prominence and devotion to Catholic faith shown by the average Filipino - along with the dominent power of the Church in the Philippines - from my particular perspective as a 2nd generation Pinoy who has lived in the UK all my life and as an atheist.
Just as there are 2 threads in different parts of The Forum so this was actually 2 seperate programs,
1 Manila to Mindanao
2 Sex and Religion in Manila
Both are still available on BBC iPlayer, But you can only view from the UK.
The 2nd one was just really a follow on from the first one...
I would actually like the Health Bill to go through
just watched the explorer follow on on i-player. Once again the church is causing problems,let the people decide. My wife and I both support contraception but won't comment on the r h bill as we don't know the full details. GOOD LUCK TO THE YOUNG APRIL
IN HER DESIRE TO GET HER FAMILY OUT OF THEIR SITUATION
Outsid UK Sex and Religion in Manila can be viewed at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG7nAwNGKcQ
But still a good programe as such an important suject as you from your good works know better than many of us BritsThe 2nd one was just really a follow on from the first one...
I would actually like the Health Bill to go through
So like many i have not read the bill, so glad to hear someone with a stronger faith than many Brits (i hope that doesn't offend sir) but has from what i read done a lot of good work on here out in phill approves. Hopefully it gets approved in a way which can help out many who really need the help
Was very emotional watching the show and hoping that her dream like the many phills trying to make a difference comes true
Oh lord why did you make so many clothes and shoe shops
CHURCH vs the STATE
Philippines is such a Catholic country that is why Church has got plenty of powers over the country...
Sometimes, misguiding the people... Giving bad directions, confusing them...
Like the priest said: ABORTION STARTED when using contaceptive pills, iuds, condoms etc...
Hmmm... I dont think so...
Plenty of Filipino families are in the grassroots level... Uneducated, poor, but very religious... so their only strength is "religion" attending the Church and listening to the blahblahblah of the priests...
result: MORE POVERTY, LOTS OF KIDS (Failure to use the proper family planning)
Church's point of view: IF Contraceptions will be accepted: THERE IS FREE SEX, BECOME MORE LIKE THE WESTERN WORLD, DIVORCES, BROKEN FAMILIES etc...
State: Control of population, poverty and responsible living...
RESULT:
People: CONFUSIONS...
Sadly all the Phill christan churches i have seen and the State hardly feel me with a sense sadly leave me with a feeling they really care at a high level about the population as a whole
Oh lord why did you make so many clothes and shoe shops
My view on this is as follows:
Firstly, as someone alluded earlier, a key consideration is education. Whether in da Phils or in UK, US, etc. it is invariably the uneducated and mostly unemployed that have the largest families which they cannot afford to maintain. That has nothing to do with the church or catholicism surely.
Secondly, contraceptives don't absolve people of the need to behave responsibly. How many of our wive's parents have excessively large families that they cannot afford? Some sure, for a variety of reasons, but mostly they only had children they could afford to raise.
Natural methods of contraception work when people are responsible and motivated. The truth of the matter is that people have large families because they only think of the moment's gartification and dont care enough about the consequences. A harsh truth but still a truth. Additionally, there still exists the belief it is beter to have large families as the children can provide for the parents in their old age. Plus, culturlly i Believe Filipinos like large families. Me too. But I can't afford to have one. That's my reality. Contraception won't help, only my intelligence and wilingness to look after my wife, children and extended family can.
If you were told that you would die instantly if you and your partner created a baby, I bet you would be motivated and not create one. That in itself proves that the outcome of pregnancy and the associated poverty is not a serious enough deterent. I guess in this context contra ception would help.
I am not pleading a case for support of contraceptive controls but am merely saying that whether these controls are wrong or right there are still things that the responsible and educated individual without access to contraception can do to prevent them worsening their situation and their families futures - if they care enough.
The story of the girl living within the large family was saddening. They mentioned that the husband could not find work, so the mother sold items to raise cash for them to survive. Hmmn! If the mother can do it why can't the father? It says muc about him which is why he does not appear on film.
I still find so much to admire in the ingenious ways that families survive in countries like da Phils, Brazil, Nigeria, etc. where altjough its hard people try and are enterprising. It contrasts starkly with the West where people just rely on others to fix their problems.
In summary, no single place is perfect but we just have to thrive as best we can within the context we are placed. Being responsible goes a long way in any context.
Be responsible with little so that you can be trusted with much!!
_____________________
‘Piamed’ I am sorry but I believe your posting is naive.
So called ‘Natural birth control’ is around 80 % successful. That means 20 babies per one hundred couples each time they have sex. That is not family planning but roulette. I have friends, good Catholics, who have four children, each born nine months after the other. It was when she was pregnant for the forth time her husband had a vasectomy,
The Roman Catholic Church wants their members to have as many babies as possible to swell the number of RC in the world. Unfortunately that means in almost all cases families become poorer and poorer, which in turn means so does their country.
In a practical sense, if a couple try to avoid having a baby by any means, that amounts to birth control, so what is the practical difference between any method that prevents conception? I am sure all will accept this does not support abortion as if the conception is prevented there is nothing but semen and an egg both distinctly separate.
As for religious doctrine: Even the church says we all have our own free will to do what we genuinely believe is correct. That does not make us sinners if we genuinely believe contraception is not a sin.
Hi johncar54, I concede that my posting is naïve within the context you have cited, as it fundamentally presupposes that couples and the individuals therein, will act responsibly and in the interests of their family. Any suggestion that a couple having a child every 9 months is doing so as the alternative is not within their control is irrepressibly flawed. I’m not sure what a good catholic is but the bible encourages the practice of wisdom and acting responsibly.
We are imperfect, everyone of us, but for one to say, “I have a large family and am thus very poor because I am not taking a particular form of contraception’ seems at best incredible. How many of us would subject our wives to the aforementioned rate of reproduction, even in the absence of contraception? Not many, because it would not be a loving and responsible thing to do. I love my wife too much to ever let that happen. I'm sure I'm not unique in that. You said your friend finally had a vasectomy, why did he not do that before. That was within his control. Why did he not withdraw before? Unless there was something preventing him from doing so, that was also within his control.
Natural Birth Control methods enjoy higher rates of success among the educated, responsible and motivated. One study looking at the pregnancy rates of those ‘practicing’ natural birth control in the US, exposed pregancy rates of approx 12%. Unfortunately, most studies do not examine the correlation between Natural Birth Control Methods, level of education and economic status using robust methodology, for a range of reasons.
Well in answer to your specific question, there are fundamental differences between the various birth control methods. Far too many to explore in detail here. I believe you have identified the key difference that many are concerned about – that of what is conception. If the egg and sperm do not meet then I believe there is for the vast majority, no issue to consider.
I am not sure what ‘even the church says we all have our own free will’ is intended to mean as the bible very firmly introduced and leads that notion. You are mistaken in your interpretation as that meaning that it is ok to “do what we genuinely believe is correct”. To my knowledge the bible does not say that.
I also believe that your assertion “That does not make us sinners if we genuinely believe contraception is not a sin” is oversimplistic. Please note that I am not a catholic nor do I comprehend/subscribe to the papal mandate on contraception. These are not the points I am seeking to posit.
Be responsible with little so that you can be trusted with much!!
_____________________
My friend who had 4 babies, each nine months apart, clearly by those figures had sex within the so called save period. So they were practicing natural birth control. It failed dramatically!
Quote. “Why did he not withdraw before” Having checked on the internet it would seem that about 25% of couples practising that will produce a pregnancy in the first year.
Quote “One study looking at the pregnancy rates of those ‘practicing’ natural birth control in the US, exposed pregnancy rates of approx 12%” That works out at 1 pregnancy in less than nine months for couples having sex 12 times a year. Not an efficient way to limit pregnancy.
The Catholic Church dictates that the reason for sexual intercourse is procreation. Thus withdrawal is against their (dare I say, man made) rules.
For the record: I was a RC but am now an atheist, I am anti abortion.
I WANT TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR: THAT WHILST ALL FORMS OF CONTRACEPTION HAVE SOME RISK, THE SO CALLED NATURAL METHODS OFFERS ALMOST NO PROTECTION IN THE SHORT TERM AND EVEN LESS IN THE LONG TERM and even then relies on very careful mathematical calculations which uneducated or busy people could not hope to achieve.
I have researched the internet and it is estimated there are 473,000 abortion per year in the Philippines. Thats about 1,300 per day. I think on the BBC prog they said around 500 women a year are known to die during abortions in Philippines.
I hear you BUT the reasons for any method of contraception failing are always the same - education, wisdom and responsibility. The bottom line being that some are incapable of following guidelines. Obviously, I'm talking about relatively non-complex methods of control, such as the pill, condom, withdrawal, etc.
Why is it that some natural methods have a 100% success rate with some individuals and not so with others?
I can't comment on what the RC dictates but can say that anyone who reads the bible and understands it can clearly see that sexual intercourse is not just for procreation but is a gift from God designed, among other things, to draw couples together as an expression of love. Again, love has a broader meaning within this Christian context than it is commonly but not exclusively used outside of it.
I WANT TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR: THAT WHILST ALL FORMS OF CONTRACEPTION HAVE SOME RISK, THE SO CALLED NATURAL METHODS OFFERS ALMOST NO PROTECTION IN THE SHORT TERM AND EVEN LESS IN THE LONG TERM
That is true with some people and with others it affords a very high degree of protection. In order for something to work it must be implemented correctly. I've seen remnants of various things in strange locations in women's bodies that left all involved in the procedure, in no doubt as to the competence of the indiviuals involved.
Btw, that your friend got prefnant all those times suggest to me that they did not limit themselves to sex within the so-called safe periods. Plus, i think we all know that the safe period varies from individual to individual and oftentimes far more so.
I think even 1 person dying during an abortion is 1 too many. I don't judge anyone having an abortion as its not my place to and i'm not in their shoes but each of these deaths involved 2 persons and is thus doubly saddening.
Be responsible with little so that you can be trusted with much!!
_____________________
QUOTE that your friend got pregnant all those times suggest to me that they did not limit themselves to sex within the so-called safe periods. Plus, i think we all know that the safe period varies from individual to individual and oftentimes far more so.
From your apparent knowledge I am sure you would agree, it is obvious that to conceiving within a few days of giving birth intercourse could only have been within the so called safe period and that happened THREE times to my friends.
I am concerned that what you say may not discourage uneducated people from taking very unacceptable risks.
It is unfortunate but true, that many Filipinos seek spouses from the so called western world. A woman with a baby has much less chance of finding a western husband.
My last comment on this post is addressed to unmarried Filipinas: Do not take the chance of getting pregnant, that means absolutely no sexual contact, it will almost certainly make your life, and the life of any child, much more difficult..
To assume there is a safe period is to accept the risk of being wrong. I understand your concern but I was merely stating my thoughts on the statements you posted.
I would encourage all to take appropriate measures to control their increase.
Be responsible with little so that you can be trusted with much!!
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Unfortunately, the truth is that if you are childless in Philippines, you run the very great risk of having no one to care for you in your old age.
One of Ruby's cousins, who has a facial disfigurement, despairs of finding herself a decent husband. Unfortunately, she has not helped her chances by deliberately becoming pregnant by someone for whom she has no feelings. However, she has taken this step as a form of forward planning - looking towards her old age. Her parents have been encouraging her, very strongly, to have an abortion, but she is resisting.
That's very true and a sad situation for Ruby's cousin. I wish her well.
Be responsible with little so that you can be trusted with much!!
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Thank you. We are encouraging her not to follow the abortion route, and will do our best to support her through this.
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