He Is Dead

[aromulus]

OK Dom,
I am a little baffled now.

.

No need to be baffled, mate.

Everyone is entitled to views and opinions, the quip and the joke and openess of debate.

I respect your views on being an atheist, it is your right to do so.
And my post wasn't directed at you personally, but at people in general that criticize others beliefs and ridicule them.
I was brought up on a diet of sunday mass, communion, confession and all the mumbo jumbo it entailed, and always fought against it with teeth and nails, because I thought I always had better and more fun things to do on a sunday morning instead.
I haven't changed much, but I will not stand in my wife's way if she wants to go to church and worship, but I will actually join her, and while there, although I am not the most religious of persons, I will do a bit of reflecting myself.

What will you do when your good lady arrives???
Will you forbid her to pray???
Will you stop her from going to church???

It is give and take.

[aposhark]

No need to be baffled, mate.

Everyone is entitled to views and opinions, the quip and the joke and openess of debate.

I respect your views on being an atheist, it is your right to do so.
And my post wasn't directed at you personally, but at people in general that criticize others beliefs and ridicule them.
I was brought up on a diet of sunday mass, communion, confession and all the mumbo jumbo it entailed, and always fought against it with teeth and nails, because I thought I always had better and more fun things to do on a sunday morning instead.
I haven't changed much, but I will not stand in my wife's way if she wants to go to church and worship, but I will actually join her, and while there, although I am not the most religious of persons, I will do a bit of reflecting myself.

What will you do when your good lady arrives???
Will you forbid her to pray???
Will you stop her from going to church???

It is give and take.

My wife and I have discussed this at length, even before she arrives in the UK.
She can follow her beliefs and go to church as often as she wants, and I will never stand in her way.
I will drive her if I am not working and collect her outside when the service is over. I will encourage her to follow whatever belief she has as long as she doesn't try to get me involved.

Her right to follow her faith is paramount to her well-being.
Equally, the right for me to keep religion out of our conversations is my right.

I just mentioned to her that my beliefs are 100% apposed to hers though and that it will always be best for harmony that religion is not mentioned.
We understand each other.

I accompanied her into the old beautiful church in Cebu City "Santo Niňo" and watched respectfully as she prayed on the last trip.

[aromulus]

I accompanied her into the old beautiful church in Cebu City "Santo Niňo" and watched respectfully as she prayed on the last trip.

I rest my case....

[Piamed]

Rob,
You have asked me a similar question before, and I supplied you with some information about the decline of the church.
You can google "uk church attendances" and see for yourself.
It really doesn't serve any purpose for me to try to point out to you that a lot of people on this forum do not believe in God or religion and Christianity is a religion.
If you cannot see that for yourself, then not only do we differ in our stance on whether there is a God, we also don't agree that when we read lots of posts, that there are plainly many who have no time for church.
There really isn't any point in going over the same old ground, again.
A lady started this thread about "He Is Dead".
Now, for many of us, "He" never existed, so how can he die?
SHOW ME THE PROOF. If you cannot, there is no point in you continuing.

So, I will not continue ad infinitum with these pointless meanderings.
I will leave you with a quote on religion from a far more learned man, Sigmund Freud:

The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life.

It's ok to cast rhetoric but things should be substantiated otherwise its just gums bumping in the wind, irrespective of which side of the fence one is on. It's easy to dismiss notions and positions we do not understand, dictators and other disruptive leaders have been doing it for centuries.

I also understand church attendances overall are indeed in decline but let's examine some of the detailed context. Attendance and membership of the Charismatic churches are increasing. Have you taken this into consideration and why this is the case? Do you acknowledge that religion, Christianity and Catholicism are not synonymous? I ask this because many of your statements seem contextually biased and revolve around misused nomenclature.

You say many do not believe in God but are ignoring the fact that most on the forum probably do. That is at best misleading.

Respectfully, if you have undertaken anything other than a cursory glance at the seminal works of Freud and pondered on them as well as those of other learned observers, you would understand the broader concept of what proof is and would know that you cannot say that there is no proof that many people have that God exists. Undertake a critical review of the quotation you have highlighted and you might be able to falsify it. You will also know that usng the works of Freud as a basis for a view of the world and societal value systems would create socially inept individuals.

See what this religion thing does?

Is it devisive or not? If it is devisive, then don't mention it, it is best forgotten.
......

If religion is, as you have implied, an improbable notion, as such it cannot in itself be divisive per se but the lack of respect for the views of others is. See below:

My wife and I have discussed this at length, even before she arrives in the UK.

What does this mean? How could you discuss something you dismiss? Why the emphasis on before she arrives in the UK?
She can follow her beliefs and go to church as often as she wants, and I will never stand in her way.

Surely your views and manner of expressing them as exemplified on this thread and others already stand as barriers in her way

I will drive her if I am not working and collect her outside when the service is over. I will encourage her to follow whatever belief she has as long as she doesn't try to get me involved.

How can you possibly encourage her in something you stand so firmly against?

Her right to follow her faith is paramount to her well-being.

I agree with that but given that her ability to follow her faith is somewhat impaired by your views which you are fully committed to upholding as illustrated in your signature, among other things, what does that suggest? Your signature s also surely advertising your philosophical view which is tantamount to a religion in the eyes of many.


Equally, the right for me to keep religion out of our conversations is my right.

Then just as equally your wife has the right to keep religion in your conversations. How will you deal with that?

I just mentioned to her that my beliefs are 100% apposed to hers though and that it will always be best for harmony that religion is not mentioned.
We understand each other.

You mentioned! What does that mean exactly? Do you mean that you told her how things are gonna be if she wants to have a harmonious marriage? What do you understand about her, when you are it appears the one who laid down the rules?

I accompanied her into the old beautiful church in Cebu City "Santo Niňo" and watched respectfully as she prayed on the last trip.

I really do not understand how given everything you have said and the way you have said them on this thread and on others, which i can extract if need be, you could possibly watch respectfully. What does watching respectfully mean to you?

You mentioned and quoted learned individuals earlier in an attempt presumably to bolster your unsubstantiated personal assertions. 'Celebrity' statement do not add much to the positions on either side. Extent research will do. What robust data o you have to support any of your assertions.

Many scholars believe that in order to have an ability to challenge something successfully they need to be able to defend to at least some credible extent the counter argument to the one they hold.

What can you say to counter your own arguments?

Pleas note that much of what I have said has been phrased as questions. That is because I hope that you might consider some specific items and how they might relate to you. I'm not judging you just cahllenging you on specific points not about your right to believe what you want.

Cordially!

[aposhark]

What can you say to counter your own arguments?

What proof do you have to counter your own arguments?

Show me the proof that anything you believe in has ANY basis in fact.

That will make me a believer.

[Piamed]

What proof do you have to counter your own arguments?

Show me the proof that anything you believe in has ANY basis in fact.

That will make me a believer.

You've ignored the detail of my post for your own reasons. I would never state anything I am unwilling/unable to defend. I am able to comprehend your perspective and make assumptions, valid or otherwise, about why you might hold your views, even though I disagree with much of them.

Please note that I'm not trying to make you a believer - only He can do that should He choose to. I'm drawing your attention to some essential flaws and inconsistencies I perceive to be present in some of your statements.

I invited you to comment on them in particular areas in an attempt to challenge you to mutual benefit but you appear, in my view, unwilling to engage in discourse other than on a superficial and whimsical basis.

Peace!!

[aposhark]

You've ignored the detail of my post for your own reasons. I would never state anything I am unwilling/unable to defend. I am able to comprehend your perspective and make assumptions, valid or otherwise, about why you might hold your views, even though I disagree with much of them.

Please note that I'm not trying to make you a believer - only He can do that should He choose to. I'm drawing your attention to some essential flaws and inconsistencies I perceive to be present in some of your statements.

I invited you to comment on them in particular areas in an attempt to challenge you to mutual benefit but you appear, in my view, unwilling to engage in discourse other than on a superficial and whimsical basis.

Peace!!

Piamed,
You are focussing on the minutiae of everything instead of the real issue that there is no God, and you still cannot supply ANY proof.
Your attempts to disect every comment I have made "to mutual benefit" is tiresome and frankly, objectionable.

We will never have any mutual benefit, when you refuse to believe what is plain for the mostly non-believing British public: that you have to show proof to back up your religious ideas.

"essential flaws and inconsistencies".
I think your logic of belief without proof is exactly this.

Once again, "show me some proof".

I'm waiting...................(think it will be a long wait........)

There is no "He" "Her" or "It" that you or the others allude to.

This shows such a lack of understanding to me and the millions of other non-believers.

Meanwhile, people of "faith" leave the church, not so much one by one, but their children vote with their feet.