He Is Dead

[walesrob]

For Walesrob.........Christianity on its knees

Maybe you'd like to explain to me why the local Catholic Church in Aberystwyth is packed full during mass on Sunday.

[KeithD]

Maybe you'd like to explain to me why the local Catholic Church in Aberystwyth is packed full during mass on Sunday.

Where else can they go in Abertwitwith?

[walesrob]

Correction:
The majority of the Philippine people are Catholics (because their parents made them so!), the country is not.
Same with Britain, the country is NOT Christian, it is of no religion, but a minority of the people are Christians.

This is taken from the Life in the Uk Test Official Publication - the very book applicants for LTR must study.

'Although the Uk is historically a Christian society, everyone has a legal right to practise the religion of their choice. In the 2001 census, just over 75% said they had a religion; 7 out of 10 of these were Christians. There were also a considerable number of people who followed other religions. Although many people in the UK say they hold religious beliefs, currently only around 10% of the population attend religious services. More attend services in Scotland and Northern Ireland than in England and Wales. In London, the number of people who attend religious services is increasing.

Religions in the UK %
Christian (10% of whom are RC) 71.6
Muslim 2.7
Hindu 1.0
Sikh 0.6
.....
No Religion 15.5

(c) Crown Copyright Published by TSO '


So who's telling the truth?

[Pepe n Pilar]

To Aposhark,

The argument that you cannot support your wife because you do not agree with her religious views is crazy. That is almost like saying that your wife would not support you because you like watching football and she doesn't. If that was the case there would be very few couples in the UK still together. :-) In any case it is variety, and the differences between people, that makes them interesting and often what attracts us to someone in the first place.
Vive la difference!

[KeithD]

They reference 'Christians' as those who are baptized according to the official church records, and not what the population themselves say which I would say is the TRUE number, rather than governmental spun and twisted figures.

Just because people were baptized when they had absolutely zero choice in it, does not make them a Christain, or any other faith. I think it should be illegal, and classed a mental child abuse to do such things to babies/kids, without allowing them the knowledge of the world first so they can make their own choice when they are adults.

[Pepe n Pilar]

This is taken from the Life in the Uk Test Official Publication - the very book applicants for LTR must study.

'Although the Uk is historically a Christian society, everyone has a legal right to practise the religion of their choice. In the 2001 census, just over 75% said they had a religion; 7 out of 10 of these were Christians. There were also a considerable number of people who followed other religions. Although many people in the UK say they hold religious beliefs, currently only around 10% of the population attend religious services. More attend services in Scotland and Northern Ireland than in England and Wales. In London, the number of people who attend religious services is increasing.

Religions in the UK %
Christian (10% of whom are RC) 71.6
Muslim 2.7
Hindu 1.0
Sikh 0.6
.....
No Religion 15.5

(c) Crown Copyright Published by TSO '


So who's telling the truth?

7 out of 10 believe in Christ!.......

[walesrob]

They reference 'Christians' as those who are baptized according to the official church records, and not what the population themselves say which I would say is the TRUE number, rather than governmental spun and twisted figures.

So now your saying the Official Census carried out every 10 years is actually government spin? Get real Keith, the figures speak for themselves. Even if only 10% attend church on a regular basis (and that number may have gone down since 2001 to say 6%) its hardly regarded as a minority. 3 million people live in Wales, thats about 6% of the total UK population, does that makes Welsh a minority?

[joebloggs]

7 out of 10 believe in Christ!.......

yes maybe, but how many go to church thou ?, and are they only, when it comes to weddings, christening, Easter and Xmas ??

[Eljohno]

Keith when i mentioned earlier that you were against Christianity and that you were an atheist you seemed to disagree but at every chance you it shows in your posts that your views are that of an atheist.

Aposhark its true that some of the mainstream churches are losing members and some of the reasons is that they are not doing enough to keep young people interested.

But the Evangelical churches are on the increase across the UK and USA.

Like i said before the thread will keep going around in circles because both Christians and Atheists will not change their views.

[aromulus]

yes maybe, but how many go to church thou ?, and are they only, when it comes to weddings, christening, Easter and Xmas ??

Going to church really is neither here or there, if you think about it, as many people will regard as having Christ/God within....

[walesrob]

Going to church really is neither here or there, if you think about it, as many people will regard as having Christ/God within....

Yay Dom is right

Dom, you should be the next Pope.

[walesrob]

yes maybe, but how many go to church thou ?,

currently only around 10% of the population attend religious services.

[joebloggs]

Going to church really is neither here or there, if you think about it, as many people will regard as having Christ/God within....

if you ask someone if they are religious, you'll get many who say yes, but do they practise that religion ?

they believe in god, do they read the bible, do they go to church, do they practise what their religion says ??

you call yourself a Chelsea fan Dom, have you ever been to see them ? and go and ask those who have season tickets if they think you are a fan..

2 different answers

[Piamed]

To Aposhark,

The argument that you cannot support your wife because you do not agree with her religious views is crazy. That is almost like saying that your wife would not support you because you like watching football and she doesn't. If that was the case there would be very few couples in the UK still together. :-) In any case it is variety, and the differences between people, that makes them interesting and often what attracts us to someone in the first place.
Vive la difference!

Although I do not agree that it would be crazy as you put it, it would certainly be a misguided suggestion that one cannot support another in something that one did not believe in. Who do you believe put forward that argument? I've looked but cannot find it in this thread. Certainly, I never suggested thatsuggest that. My points related to Aposhark and his manner, etc. specifically. I deconstructed my queries in a particular way and raised some relevant issues which the honourable gentleman shied away from.

Likening a football interest to a lifestyle and in many cases a fundamental determminant of the essential them is perhaps not the most useful analogy. Clearly, variety is the spice of life etc etc. I agree with you totally. No intelligent person would challenge that on a general basis.

Being a Christian is about striving and is an ongoing struggle to be increasingly Christ-like. Being a Christian is not an absolute end-point as some seem to suggest. Because of that, Christians will always by definition be imperfect, just like everone else. Christianity is fundamentally about establishing and maintaining a relationship with God. There area variety of reasons that people attend church services.

The remnants of more traditional churches which tend to be steeped in tradition and rituals and are less scripture-led, are in decline but as stated before the Charismatic denominations that encourage bible-reading and understanding and a personal relationship with God and are more current, contemporary and engaging of the youth are on the up globally. London is a great example. It's difficult to address particular points by some unbelievers as it seems that the points raised are sometimes aimed at the wrong targets and without the understanding of the clearly discernable differences between Catholicism, Religion and Christianity.

It is true that some Christians are unfamiliar with the word of God. Much of that is historical. We could all do more in that regard. Many people should attend church as they can share the word of God and learn a great deal from their peers and often it is the one place where they can receive spiritual nourishment or indoctrination as some unbelievers may perceive it.

I think it's fine that Aposhark, I and others have differing opinions; as far as I'm concerned it does not detract from our friendship. That people can disagree on issues important to them helps develop relationships, e.g. marriage. Some of my good friends are devoutly-Islamic Arabians; I have on occasion found I have more in common with them than athiesits and many Christians. So long as true respect is given by all concerned we can overcome all things.

I as always, wish everyone the best and for one, have found all comments/responses really interesting whether I agree with them or not.

Peace to all as always!!!!

[aromulus]

i

you call yourself a Chelsea fan Dom, have you ever been to see them ?

Yes.
For many a year I was attending Earls court ideal home exhibition, and sometime I was able to sneak in a couple or three home matches. Looked a bit of a prat in suit and tie, but there you go, the sacrifices one has to make sometime....
Unfortunately I don't have the chance to get to London anymore or even being able to afford such a luxury as a footie ticket as other priorities have emerged.

[Pepe n Pilar]

So now your saying the Official Census carried out every 10 years is actually government spin? Get real Keith, the figures speak for themselves. Even if only 10% attend church on a regular basis (and that number may have gone down since 2001 to say 6%) its hardly regarded as a minority. 3 million people live in Wales, thats about 6% of the total UK population, does that makes Welsh a minority?

About 2.9 million people live in Wales which is 5% of the total UK population.(Census done in 2005)

Still fresh in my mind Mod Rob. Just passed the Life in the UK test last week....

[joebloggs]

Likening a football interest to a lifestyle and in many cases a fundamental determminant of the essential them is perhaps not the most useful analogy.

i see your point, but how many people are dedicated to their religion, for many ticket holders football is their life, look how many fans go across Europe to watch a match and come straight back.

[KeithD]

7 out of 10 believe in Christ!.......

It does NOT say that!

So now your saying the Official Census carried out every 10 years is actually government spin? Get real Keith,....

Do you not know how stats and the questions work?

The question in the census was:
What religion are you?

They did not have 'Atheist' included.

The question that would have given the TRUE result would be:
Do you believe in God, and if so what religion are you?
...and include in the possible answers 'None'

They did not do that, so the figures are incorrect for the true reflection of the publics beliefs, as the question did not entertain that notion, it surmise all those forced to be Christians when kids are Christians now.

Very simple to understand.

[Alan]

Going to church really is neither here or there, if you think about it, as many people will regard as having Christ/God within....

Totally agree!!!

Al.

[Pepe n Pilar]

I love a massdebate!

[Piamed]

i see your point, but how many people are dedicated to their religion, for many ticket holders football is their life, look how many fans go across Europe to watch a match and come straight back.

Noted Joe but football cannot define who an individual is and provide them a set of moral codes that help them contribute positively to society, raise their families and give them a divine source of conflict resolution.

[Alan]

I feel that I have to make one post here - despite not wishing to 'elongate' a thread which, quite frankly, has made me rather upset.

I have said before, on a couple of occasions - can't be a****d to look through and find them - that Jesus came to us with a message - be good - love your enemies - treat everyone as you would be treated. In other words, let's all be nice to each other!!!

Whether you believe in Him or not, let's try to live by His message. Wouldn't it be GREAT if everyone in the world was nice to his/her neighbour? No more crime, no more shooting, no more wars, no more Oldham getting beaten!

I KNOW and appreciate that, humankind as it is, these wishes are 'impossible' to realise - BUT - you must agree, it is a Utopian ideal n'est-ce pas?

So, Christian, athiest, agnostic, Jew, Muslim - WHATEVER - surely everyone on here would love to live by Jesus' message!

Let's just all be friends PLEASE!! Sod the cups of tea - let's all have a few beers.

Al.

[joebloggs]

Noted Joe but football cannot define who an individual is and provide them a set of moral codes that help them contribute positively to society, raise their families and give them a divine source of conflict resolution.

all you mention and more i can do without religion, treat people how you would like to be treated, fair play and justice, compassion, common sense, equality .. etc.

[Piamed]

all you mention and more i can do without religion, treat people how you would like to be treated, fair play and justice, compassion, common sense, equality .. etc.

I totally agree with that! I was merely attempting to highlight some of the fundamental heterogeneity existing between football and one's belief as cornerstones for the development of e.g. an individuals essential moral fabric, given the context of the prevailing discourse. For many their belief is a philosophy of life that governs their behaviour. It is totally normal for an individual to arrive at a similar set of guiding principles without a religion - absolutely.

[walesrob]

It does NOT say that!


Do you not know how stats and the questions work?

The question in the census was:
What religion are you?

They did not have 'Atheist' included.

Very simple to understand.

No Religion 15.5

Does that mean atheist?

[KeithD]

No Religion 15.5

Does that mean atheist?

No it doesn't, the question asks if you have a religion, the majority do, that is the question, not whether they believe or not, which the majority of Brits don't.

I wish you were a bookie the way you work with stats, I'd make more than I do.

Can you ask God to gag Gordon Brown as the £££££ is on a roll in the Forex markets. Every time he speaks it goes down

[walesrob]

Can you ask God to gag Gordon Brown as the £££££ is on a roll in the Forex markets

Call him yourself, I'm not your bitch

[joebloggs]

I totally agree with that! I was merely attempting to highlight some of the fundamental heterogeneity existing between football and one's belief as cornerstones for the development of e.g. an individuals essential moral fabric, given the context of the prevailing discourse. For many their belief is a philosophy of life that governs their behaviour. It is totally normal for an individual to arrive at a similar set of guiding principles without a religion - absolutely.

so what's the difference then, you read the bible, pray and goto church and i don't , is that it

i respect your right to believe what you want, and do what you want as long as its legal and if not, as long as it's in your own home

[Florge]

from the things I read about cross-cultural communication, all of them (authors) would always remind their readers, to not talk about religion as this is a very sensitive, and complicated topic.

why did i say this? eeerrr... I don't know!

Happy_Now, cheer up. Some may be offended with your subject line, but there are also others (including me) who was just soooooo relieved that it is just a joke, that they forgot to be offended (?).... hehehehehe.... One Love everyone... we all share the same air...

[Mrs.JMajor]

Sorry guys cant help not to put my input,i like this thread (discussion),i been reading this thread since last night,very interesting.....most viewing thread so far...