Is it a sin??????

[David House]

To try to settle a debate as diversive as this one in a forum like this is pointless. The viewpoints are totally different. I have had a long running debate on the major USA RC church website forum on this subject and there is just no meeting of minds at all. They feel 100% sure that what they say is right and that anyone who has a different opinion is their enemy. The aggression is quite appalling at times.
No-one in their right mind likes abortion and in my view it should always be the action of very last resort, the least worst choice available. What I fail to understand is how the RC church can sustain a total ban upon abortion AND a total ban on non "natural" contraception. Great idea put about by guys who have no knowledge of the real world and (apparently) no sexual experience, based upon a dodgy interpretation of some words in a book written by various people in another age. Time for a re-think maybe?
To advise the lady in question is impossible in my opinion as this must be her decision. However, I strongly feel that no-one should even think of allowing their personal religious convictions to be introduced into any advice they might think of giving her. Limit advice to practical considerations only and leave moral judgements aside.

[Sophie]

Thats why she chooses to abort this baby bcoz it happened twice this time that she got pregnant even though she manage to deliver the first one but she thought she cant cope with another one (baby)with different father and at this time she isn`t in a proper relationship and she does`nt want to be in humiliation again.She said she did have sex with the said man for a reason but not this reason (getting pregnant) sad thing is the man is nowhere to be found that is why she is not keen to keep the baby!I have ask her how many months her tummy now and she said is two months!

Wow, what a predicament It's just sad she already screwed up once and paid a big price for it and now she is in exactly thesame situation -talking about dejavu What can i say, she should have been more careful and responsible the second time. She doesn't wanna go through thesame humiliation all over again but she brought that to herself. She seems to want to learn the hard way. I feel sorry she has to go through thesame thing, but that's the choice she made. Sometimes we cause tragedy to our lives by making bad choices and not thinking that a moment of indiscretion brings a lifetime of regret. I hope everything will work out well for your friend, whatever action she decides to carry out in the days to come.

[Mrs Daddy]

I really hope so after this very dark moment I hope and Pray she`ll manage to get over it.
She is just to gullable in believing what men told her.

[Sophie]

I really hope so after this very dark moment I hope and Pray she`ll manage to get over it.
She is just to gullable in believing what men told her.

I'm sure she'll manage and get over it mrs daddy. You'll be surprised at how tough we can all be in times of distress and in our darkest hour. I think that's the inner strength that naturally comes out in our desperate moments and for those who believe - its their faith in God that gives them enough reason to hang on and take courage. I just hope she'll learn her lesson this time and be careful in the future. And she should stop being too naive and too gullible and refuse to be a victim next time. And she should start being wise in choosing the kind of men she will date in the future. She should start thinking and looking after her own welfare and not just be blinded with false promises by opportunist men who will only take advantage of her. MEN WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING JUST TO GET LAID. So she should always use her head and think hard before doing anything, specially if it involves men.

[adam&chryss]

Thats why she chooses to abort this baby bcoz it happened twice this time that she got pregnant even though she manage to deliver the first one but she thought she cant cope with another one (baby)with different father and at this time she isn`t in a proper relationship and she does`nt want to be in humiliation again.She said she did have sex with the said man for a reason but not this reason (getting pregnant) sad thing is the man is nowhere to be found that is why she is not keen to keep the baby!I have ask her how many months her tummy now and she said is two months!

She should taught about that before having sex..
Anyway, in what i experienced. I got pregnant and it was a planned decision between me and my exboyfriend. I thought he will marry me.. but it went to nothing. I was in a big humiliation as my relatives are very strict and religious. I had no money, can't work because i need to be in bedrest till i give birth.. so emotionally, mentally and financially depressed during that time. At the same time I didn't know what life I can give my child when he's born.
Soon as I laid my eyes to my newborn son... My tears were nonstop falling.. Not because I was unhappy but full of joy and happiness. For me that's what they called 'Love at first sight'.
Since then I was determine to give my son everything I could... He change me alot and made me a better person.
I will never change my life if I have given a chance. I will still choose to get pregnant and feel the hardship I felt when I was pregnant with my first son.

Now with my second son, it's 'Love at first sight again'. Despite the pain i 've been through while giving birth and the pain (physical pain due to forceps delivery) I'm still having right now. I will surely do it again, whatever my case is.

So, I guess your friend is not a loving mother or really don't like babies at all that's why she's thinking about abortion.
It always made me think why there are women having abortion or mothers that are very cruel to their children... whatever the case is.
I love babies... It's nothing to do with God.

Well, as other saying it's her choice. If I'm wealthy enough I'm willing to adopt her baby soon as she give birth... Or maybe someone is willing here to adopt the baby.

[adam&chryss]

I wonder how many parents here see it as a foetus or a baby?
I see it as a baby and a life. Anything with a heartbeat is alive, correct?
Abortion cos people cant keep their legs shut is, in my eyes, one of the most apalling things a human can do.
Thats one thing I hate about this country is the attitude thats its ok to sleep around and be irresponsible cos , hey, you can have a pill or abortion to rectify your irresponsibility.
Having an abortion cos the baby is seriously ill or wouldnt have any standard of life isn`t the same as cos you cant be to be responsible.

[Tawi2]

As soon as you see it moving on the scan its your baby,your already giving it a name,a character,talking to it,and about it,its part of you,part of your creation None parents cant understand,but someone who has seen their own child on a screen knows that first feeling.

[Eljohno]

It's pointless to argue semantics. For me it's a foetus now, but will become a baby if born.

Actually I don't think it's any of men's business, as we don't have to go through it so who are we judge? So often we don't have to pay for 'the mistake'. That's the problem I have with men who are pro-life trying to impose their beliefs on women. Some have even killed abortionists - hypocrites...

Pro-choice does not equal pro-death.

That is very general to say that you have a problem with men who are pro-life as they have killed..

Both are equally bad - Those who kill innocent babies and those who kill abortionists..

How can you say a baby is simply a foetus until it reaches daylight that is just crazy.. When i saw the 1st scan of my beautiful daughter i never saw a foetus but the little body of a human being...

[Tawi2]

Got to endorse your comments John,as soon as you see it moving on the scan its your child,your baby You start talking about it as a person,one of the family,you dont call it "The foetus"

[lordfortesque]

it is said to be a sin in the eyes of god but at the end of the day the choice belongs to the mother and no one else she and she alone will have to carry the pain for the rest of her life

[jencha8569]

Please tell her not to correct a mistake with another mistake.

If she did make a mistake in life, she should accept responsibility for it.

And when it regards to someone's life (the baby), the baby should not be punished.

(As you have said, you are a religious person, then you know what the answer is...) Please do pray for her...

We'll pray for you & your friend.

I totally agree

Abortion is not the answer to the hurdle things happening in her life.
Abortion is a no-no for me had friends asking for advise before
about having an abortion my answer was always "NO take responsibility
of ur actions."
Its a common thing having a baby out of wedlock or mistake at first
abortion is a choice but once you realize things by keeping the baby the descision will be worthy.
Babies give joy and pleasure that nothing will compare.

P.S."Life starts after conception begins"

[Florge]

A fetus still is life.. regardless of whether it is just a bunch of cells or with a heartbeat. Life exists already. So then, what does the universal natural law say? It says there's life in it. Life is life! It doesn't matter if the child is one second old, 2 minutes old, 2 weeks old, 2 months old or 5 years old. The life of a child is just as much life when he is only a few minutes old as when he is 5 years old. There is no difference on this "life scale" as far as the universe is concerned. One minute old is just as much as life in the universe as someone who is 25 years old.

I do not believe in abortion, although if the mother's health would be at risk, it would be another story but only at that instance.

This is also a very sensitive topic as this would touch base with religion and therefore, I cannot insist that it is a sin or not... some people here believe that it isn't a sin because we should have the right to decide on things like these. Abortion is an egotistic choice, a result of the desire to stay away from the burden of taking care of someone else and to go on with one’s worldly enjoyments. In such a case this is a sin, that is an ethical error that burdens one’s destiny. Any egotistic action is sin!

Abortion is an act of murder. If that is not a sin, then at the court of law, it is already an offense.

[Tawi2]

A simplistic view,condensed down into a few short words,if your not prepared to accept responsibility for your actions keep your panties on,the best contraceptive is a short word............NO!

[Florge]

A simplistic view,condensed down into a few short words,if your not prepared to accept responsibility for your actions keep your panties on,the best contraceptive is a short word............NO!

Korek ka jan!!!

[joebloggs]

if your not prepared to accept responsibility for your actions keep your panties on,the best contraceptive is a short word............NO!

true, my misses doesn't want any more kids , 3 is a enuff she said

so the misses took responsibility and went to the docs and had a contraceptive implanted in her arm that last 3 years, well still got 2 years to go then til little joe mark II comes along then

[David House]

A simplistic view,condensed down into a few short words,if your not prepared to accept responsibility for your actions keep your panties on,the best contraceptive is a short word............NO!

This is the view I hear all the time on RC web forums and whilst in an ideal world, populated by ideal people it might work, the reality is actually very different. Most informed people accept that the world cannot sustain the current level of population growth. (Not the RC church mind you, who continue to insist that population control is a sin, and in addition, that the population of the Philippines is falling so that it is the duty of people there to increase the birth rate!).
Abstinence will never be the answer in the real world. It fails to recognise the genetically implanted driving force of most men. How can the average woman, already tired from family responsibilities, be expected to always say no and then get her partner to agree? Add ignorance and poverty and you have the real problem. The ONLY way is to accept that non natural contraception is OK. There are many of the RC faith who already accept that. Whether Rome will in time to save the Philippines is another question.

[xebec]

Part of the problem with citing "the word of god" or "religion" or "the church" on an issue like this is that abortion as an issue was not a major concern for the writers of the bible and churches differ in their tolerance of abortion.
To not allow for example a child under 10 who has been raped or abused by a family member to remain as a church member when she has had an abortion abhors me more than the act of abortion.
Each of us has to find their own moral bottom lines. My senses tell me that abortion should not be used as a form of contraception. However women do find themselves in the situation where they havent used contraception or it has failed. They must make and live with any decision they make. For the church to make judgements of eternal damnation - which if you believe in God should be in her hands only - I believe is evil

[tiN]

Imo, not agree with abortion at all!

[jencha8569]

thats why the philippines has so many kids on the street .
no contraception avaliable or abortion is a sin cause of
the catholic church religious beliefs.when will they ever learn.
the catholic church has alot to answer for.
abortion causes great pain but sometimes it is the only answer.

[keithAngel]

.
She is just to gullable in believing what men told her.

Men is plural Mrs Daddy

[Mrs Daddy]

Men is plural Mrs Daddy

ooopppsss sorry not all except descent one.

[Mrs Daddy]

I feel so guilty as well guys as I have given her a financial support coz she has no one to turn to and I know that she`ll gonna use the money to visit an abortionist as she said she is still not having the bleeding.I hope I am not tolerating her.I havent told her to do it.But I am so scared that she is doing it on her own that she might end up harming herself.I am too scared for her!

[Sophie]

i feel so guilty as well guys as i have given her a financial support coz she has no one to turn to and i know that she`ll gonna use the money to visit an abortionist as she said she is still not having the bleeding.i hope i am not tolerating her.i havent told her to do it.but i am so scared that she is doing it on her own that she might end up harming herself.i am too scared for her!

i understand how heavy you must be feeling now mrs daddy. I know you are torned. As much as you want to be a friend to her by helping her carry out the action she wants to take eventhough you know its wrong, you also on the otherhand feel you have to do the right thing according to our christian values and beliefs.
I just wish her best and hope that whatever she decides to do, she won't end up harming herself.

[Jay&Zobel]

The above subject were discussed in this thread:
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ighlight=obama

[pennybarry]

It's really sad if you know someone especially if she a churchgoer who did abortion and after she did it, she doesn't want to talk about it. I found it great pretending.

I have never experienced any contraceptions nor abortions as I'm pro-life and always wanted to have one. But never regret if I can't have one as most important for me is I didn't commit it and live with regret whilst you exist.

I wish your friend will be enlightened soon and not to commit such.

[KeithD]

If I'd been aborted (apart from the mess), you lot would still be in the Phil all lost and confused, and paying brokers......see how important I am....now give me some Rep!

[Mrs Daddy]

No resentment for a child if your going to be promiscuous use contraception,its not exactly rocket science,how old is the lady?At the end of the day its her decision,she is the one who has to live with it,but if she is a normal,healthy woman no matter what her financial circumstances,is an abortion the answer?Look into the eyes of an older barren lady,watch her pleasure when she sees a child,look at the longing...................Is an abrotion,depriving a child the gift of life,really the answer?

she is 25 years old!

[Florge]

abortion causes great pain but sometimes it is the only answer.

well, another answer would be to have the baby and give it up for adoption... a lot of childless couples out there who are willing to raise the baby as their own.. again, abortion IS the only answer, if and only IF, the mother's life is at stake.. other than that... I don't see abortion as an answer.. always an easy way out of the consequence of a bad decision/action/judgment.

[Mrs Daddy]

Thanks all for your shared thoughts.I appreciate it much.Thanks again!

[trader dave]

I dont like to get involved in the what is life debate

but the getting pregnant debate does make me cringe ffs cant people stick a johny on it i laugh and get angry everytime i have never given a girl a baby without it being planned so whats other excuses ooooooo we was to worked up to stop get a life ffs

then you get girls in the philippines at the moment want a baby from a foregner so its whiter skin and they believe the whiter the skin the better chance you have in life