Is it a sin??????

[Pepe n Pilar]

That`s what you call a sermon Mrs.Happy now!

Hi Wheela... you made me laugh!...

No offense here Happy_now...... Just caught by Mrs Daddy's sense of humour!

[David House]

To equate abortion with "murder" makes no sense to those who cannot accept that a "baby" exists the moment a sperm fertilises an egg! Whilst the potential for that fertilised egg to become a baby does exist, it clearly does not yet and does not until it becomes capable of an independent life. Whilst dependent upon the mother it is part of her and if a danger to her then it must be her decision, not ours or anyone elses, as to the action she takes. No religious organisation has the right to impose their views on this subject and any advice given should be practical and not based upon personal conviction. Personal views can direct personal actions, but must not be allowed to influence others.
I have known women, who have no strong religious convictions, to suffer huge emotional difficulties after having an abortion so I understand that such a step must be a terrible one to contemplate. Please don't make it worse by adding all the guilt associated with holding a personal pro-life viewpoint.

[bornatbirth]

and now the pro life,pro church reply?

[Pepe n Pilar]

and now the pro life,pro church reply?

you're starting a debate bornatbirth!

[Mrs Daddy]

Honestly am torn between two beliefs

[Mrs.JMajor]

Honestly am torn between two beliefs

and sooner or later you will become ....

[bornatbirth]

Honestly am torn between two beliefs

theres nothing wrong in believing in either!

but when it comes to making important decisions they can cloud the issue?

[Sophie]

This thread entitled "Is it a Sin" was diverted to skin whitening then to Pinays marrying foreigners to get a better life.

1) Abortion
2) Skin Whitening
3) Marrying a foreigner

It is a sin if we base it on God's words bec it is the 5th Commandment of God "Thou Shalt not Kill". This is self explanatory.

It depends on "how" and "why" this happened. If the girl concerned has an abortion for the first time then perhaps she may be forgiven or pardoned for the why's and how's will be based on lack of knowledge about sex, immaturity, or maybe some other reasons. If she did it for the second time, then that is different. She will be regarded as "irresponsible". She should have learned from the past and should have known the consequences of her act. Filipinos will say "hinde na natutu"..(never learn)or "ka bobohan na yan"!(lack of knowledge or awareness of the outcome).

For Some they will base it on how they define LIFE. If this act was done and it is just few days old and if the mother's life will be put into danger if she pursue the pregnancy, then it is not a sin. There is a medical term for that.... DNC? in tagalog (raspa). This is done to cleanse the mother's uterus to remove whatever may harm her health.

2) Skin whitening. Some women prefers light brown (tan) skin than whiter skin. It doesn't matter what color of skin she has. Innerself and/or intellect (rational being)are based on how she converse to people, on how she view things, on how she cope up on a given situation (flexibility, adaptability) not on what color of skin she has. What is important is one should know how to carry oneself... Besides we all know this saying "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". No need to say what qualities she has because she will be judged by the person she is conversing with based on the total self (personality). Some people get easily attracted to women with whiter or fairer skin than the ones with brown skin (this is in the Phils) and vice versa if it is outside the Phils. Now after they got the chance to know the girl that is after he has talked to her, he will now come up to a decision or make assessment on her if she can relate to him in accordance to intelligence. Again we can't generalised this. Some men prefer the outer qualities. To each his own.

3) Filipinas marrying foreigners to have a better life. It maybe true to some. Some marry for love (mostly) and some marry for some other reasons. This is the same with foreigners marrying filipinas. Some marry for love(mostly) and some marry filipinas because they prefer the Philippines as the place for them to retire. They want and/or love that country and so they look for filipinas. Aside from filipinas are known for many good assets such as loving, takes good care of the home, faithful and can easily adapt to any given situation. Again this is not applicable to everyone. "Swertehan lang yan" (they are just lucky enough if these qualities are present in their partners).

very well said iye I couldn't agree more

[Sophie]

The reason why most Filipinas want to have whiter skin is just because most people in the Philippines have darker skin. And for them white skin looks absolutely beautiful it is because it's not common in our country.
Just like here in England or in United States. Lots of white women want to have darker or tan skin, that's why they always go to beaches or warmer countries for sunbathing, which it will end up having an orange skin

Exactly, this is a classic scenario of people's discontentment and how they always opt to get what the others have and not appreciate what they have. Always thinking "THE GRASS IS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE"

[joebloggs]

To equate abortion with "murder" makes no sense to those who cannot accept that a "baby" exists the moment a sperm fertilises an egg! Whilst the potential for that fertilised egg to become a baby does exist, it clearly does not yet and does not until it becomes capable of an independent life. Whilst dependent upon the mother it is part of her and if a danger to her then it must be her decision, not ours or anyone elses, as to the action she takes. No religious organisation has the right to impose their views on this subject and any advice given should be practical and not based upon personal conviction. Personal views can direct personal actions, but must not be allowed to influence others.
I have known women, who have no strong religious convictions, to suffer huge emotional difficulties after having an abortion so I understand that such a step must be a terrible one to contemplate. Please don't make it worse by adding all the guilt associated with holding a personal pro-life viewpoint.

capable of independent life, how many weeks is that ? normally 38wks !!

are you trying to tell me that a baby born premature at 32wks is not a baby or has no right to a life, or one born at 23wks which relies on the skills of medical staff to keep it a live is not a baby ???

i would have thought most babies aborted are not a danger to the mother, more like the mother is the danger to the baby(over 200,000 abortions last year in the uk) . I don't think anyone is against abortion when there is a danger to them mother. Abortions over 24 weeks are only allowed in exceptional circumstances, if there is a substantial risk the child would be born with serious handicap or the mother's life was in danger.so past 24wks the woman doesn't have a choice. why that then ??

[bornatbirth]

a living baby is not alive until a baby can take its first breathe by it self!

and why do we all get so moral over life?

we are all part of the worlds evolution?

[trader dave]

[QUOTE=Florge;136367]

from everywhere but not at your level ????/[/QUOTE

And what Level is that?

The last time I had the chance to talk to my lady friends, my househelp and laundry lady, my former students, coworkers, as well as my neighbors in the slums where I lived... they never thought that having white skin or having a child from a foreigner would give them a better chance in life. Actually, they believe that a foreign bf will leave them after getting them pregnant just like the many EuroAsian, FilAm, and FilJap children here, and wouldn't want to have anything to do with their Filipina when they go back to their motherland.

yes florge it is a thread about abortion

You asked me to explain what i meant about the different levels

and i did its one of my pet hates those who have and those who have not in the philippines and how some just forget where they came from and like to showoff oooo look at me i work abroad or i married a foregner IT WINDS ME UP yes the philippines is a great place to live [if you have a little money ] its a great place to retire [if you have a little money ] but there is also another side to the philippines to which some of us HAVE seen THAT IS NOT NICE i could go on and on and on about the less savoury side ---I WILL NOT

and just to mention one point is was that there are a lot of young girls there and in many countries now that are getting pregnant on purpose for a reason
and in the philippines THEY BELIEVE [some not all ]that by having a misteza- mix race baby ???? that it will have a better change in life ---now we all know that is utter rubbish

[Mrs Daddy]

and sooner or later you will become ....

I know

[Mrs Daddy]

[QUOTE=trader dave;136736]

yes florge it is a thread about abortion

You asked me to explain what i meant about the different levels

and i did its one of my pet hates those who have and those who have not in the philippines and how some just forget where they came from and like to showoff oooo look at me i work abroad or i married a foregner IT WINDS ME UP yes the philippines is a great place to live [if you have a little money ] its a great place to retire [if you have a little money ] but there is also another side to the philippines to which some of us HAVE seen THAT IS NOT NICE i could go on and on and on about the less savoury side ---I WILL NOT

and just to mention one point is was that there are a lot of young girls there and in many countries now that are getting pregnant on purpose for a reason
and in the philippines THEY BELIEVE [some not all ]that by having a misteza- mix race baby ???? that it will have a better change in life ---now we all know that is utter rubbish

sorry I am not here trying to offend you trader dave but I am curious does your wife think same way like marrying you to have a mestiza children.Just curious I hope you not offended by my question

[Scouse]

The decision is up to the woman is pregnant.

If you don't agree with abortion don't have one but don't force your beliefs on others.

[Mrs Daddy]

The decision is up to the woman is pregnant.

If you don't agree with abortion don't have one but don't force your beliefs on others.

couldnt agree more!

[Jamesey]

The decision is up to the woman is pregnant.

If you don't agree with abortion don't have one but don't force your beliefs on others.

Well done, Scouse.

This topic is about to run into 5 pages, but your two sentences sum everything up very nicely.

[adam&chryss]

Well unfortunately if you ask for opinions on a public forum thats what you get, obviously.

[Pepe n Pilar]

In short.... SO WHAT???... THIS IS MY LIFE!..

[Mrs Daddy]

In short.... SO WHAT???... THIS IS MY LIFE!..

but its nice to hear views from different person as its hard to carry the burdens on your own and you need someone to tell it to,or else you will gone mad

[Pepe n Pilar]

but its nice to hear views from different person as its hard to carry the burdens on your own and you need someone to tell it to,or else you will gone mad

Definitely.....If we have burdens we love to hear advices, different views or comments may it be positive or negative. We need someone who can share a shoulder to cry on....

About the comments........It's take it or leave it....
Ooppps, here i go again.... explaining...

Hi Wheela....

[Jay&Zobel]

capable of independent life, how many weeks is that ? normally 38wks !!

are you trying to tell me that a baby born premature at 32wks is not a baby or has no right to a life, or one born at 23wks which relies on the skills of medical staff to keep it a live is not a baby ???

I agree with you Joe! My baby was slightly premature... but still a baby! and he is alive & kicking (literally)! but very dependent on me still!!!!

[Mrs Daddy]

Definitely.....If we have burdens we love to hear advices, different views or comments may it be positive or negative. We need someone who can share a shoulder to cry on....

About the comments........It's take it or leave it....
Ooppps, here i go again.... explaining...

Hi Wheela....

thats right shelly hallo to you also

[trader dave]

[QUOTE=Mrs Daddy;136741]

sorry I am not here trying to offend you trader dave but I am curious does your wife think same way like marrying you to have a mestiza children.Just curious I hope you not offended by my question

TOTAL LOVE



ooooooono buan no more children from me i had the chop about 6 years ago god bought us together but he does not wish us to have more babies i was gifted with 2 boys and a girl before and my fiancee has a 4 yr old given to her by one of those HIT AND RUN pilipino guys thats life or just another trial


no offence intended -- none taken its very hard to offended me --i say it like it is so expect to take it back

[SurvivingAngel]

Every sperm is wanted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p35J2MsALlo

Every sperm is sacred !

[SurvivingAngel]

capable of independent life, how many weeks is that ? normally 38wks !!

are you trying to tell me that a baby born premature at 32wks is not a baby or has no right to a life, or one born at 23wks which relies on the skills of medical staff to keep it a live is not a baby ???

This is strange as there are really people who think like this.

I have taught Koreans for almost 7 years and they believe that the moment they were born, they're already considered a year old. The strange thing is when they are in dilemma as to have abortion or not (it's something they can easily do, in hiding, though), they would say, "If it's below three months, it's not a baby yet, it has no life, so it's ok to abort the baby."

Basic principle; Life begins at the moment of fertilization, and sex, traits are then fixed! Regardless of the number of weeks, life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized by the sperm.

[pennybarry]

This is strange as there are really people who think like this.

I have taught Koreans for almost 7 years and they believe that the moment they were born, they're already considered a year old. The strange thing is when they are in dilemma as to have abortion or not (it's something they can easily do, in hiding, though), they would say, "If it's below three months, it's not a baby yet, it has no life, so it's ok to abort the baby."

Basic principle; Life begins at the moment of fertilization, and sex, traits are then fixed! Regardless of the number of weeks, life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized by the sperm.

You're right!!! In Taiwan it is the same, they always add 1 year to our age. They said life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized by the sperm.

I cannot resist with them as it's sounds true

[Piamed]

Surely an abortion means more than the ending of a pregnancy; it is the termination of a life and the potential of a being. Some, rather prosaically, attempt to dismiss an early-stage life as nothing more than a cellular agglomeration, as it suits their purpose. Presumably they would not be in any measure of distress if they or their partner miscarried at an early stage, since their belief would tell them that it was not a valid life lost anyway. I doubt it because any normal person within a normal context rejoices at the prospect of life resulting from them. If they would still hold the same view then fine but do not impose your pro-abortion views on others (I say that as presumably this repudiating tactic works both ways).

This person has a history of making gross errors in judgment that would be repellent to many. She clearly needs help and support going forward and to impede her foolishness from reaching its apogee. I wholly subscribe to the view that another life should not pay the ultimate price because of the errant practices of another who is old enough to make wise choices but has opted not to do so. It should be impressed upon her that you cannot come back from a murder.
Any suggestion that the choice of whether to kill this life should be the exclusive preserve of the person carrying that life is, in my view, surprisingly naïve and myopic. Anyone disagreeing should please state whether they would hold the same view if after seeing their little one on a scan, their partner told them that she had aborted it for her own personal reasons and in line with their joint belief, it had been exclusively her choice.

There are many wonderful couples that long to have a child and cannot create one of their own but would make superlative adoptive parents. As one wise person said and others agreed, why not give the child up for adoption in preference to consigning it to the morgue or dissecting table?

As I said earlier, the woman needs help. She has demonstrated that she is not always capable of making wise decisions, so contrary to what one person suggested earlier, someone close to her should intervene to advise her and help prevent her making another gross decision she might regret for the rest of her life and will mean the death of another life in the meantime.
If anyone has had an abortion, that is the past and should not be dwelled on, in my opinion. We should however, help any individual, irrespective of the past, not to make the same type of error going forward.

Skin Whitening
I think it unfortunate that some feel that something other than what they are is best and to the extent that they are willing to risk their natural health for it but it is their choice. Some think being as white as is attainable is beautiful. Some, not many, believe being darker is the epitome of beauty. Each to their own!

If one is using skin lighteners because they seek to remove blemishes, etc. it is different but I would encourage them to find means to achieve the same aim without risk, using naturally designed products. Those interested in this can ask me for further info which I will happily provide and may even be able to source some product for them.

It's also interesting the perception of tone and shade. To my current understanding, right or wrong, the average Korean type skin tone is most admired in da Phils, as are the very light hispanic skin tones. If I'm correct, then the darker complextions are actually the majority and are not at all rare. In any event, to my mind, based upon my trips there, the percentage of naturally very light-skinned Filipinos in the various places I've been to across Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao, is quite low. If that is the case, there must be an alternative reasoning behind the popular desire to be light-skinned.

[JudyHon]

Surely an abortion means more than the ending of a pregnancy; it is the termination of a life and the potential of a being. Some, rather prosaically, attempt to dismiss an early-stage life as nothing more than a cellular agglomeration, as it suits their purpose. Presumably they would not be in any measure of distress if they or their partner miscarried at an early stage, since the belief would tell them that it was not a valid life lost anyway. I doubt it because any normal person within a normal context rejoices at the prospect of life resulting from them. If they would still hold the same view then fine but do not impose your pro-abortion views on others (I say that as presumably this repudiating tactic works both ways).

I wasn't aware that anyone here was expressing 'pro-abortion' views. I thought that was the one-child policy in China? Maybe a pro-life tactic to avoid using the term 'pro-choice'. But it suits your purpose to avoid using the 'choice' word as 'imposing views' of freedom of choice sounds a bit daft in this context. Imposing views that women must complete their pregnancy does not.

For the record I find the very idea of abortion absolutely repellent, but when I hear cases of women scratching out their foetus with coathangers causing great injury to themselves and rendering themselves barren, or even resorting to suicide rather than see the pregnancy through, I cannot help but arrive at my pro-choice position.

[Piamed]

I wasn't aware that anyone here was expressing 'pro-abortion' views. I thought that was the one-child policy in China? Maybe a pro-life tactic to avoid using the term 'pro-choice'. But it suits your purpose to avoid using the 'choice' word as 'imposing views' of freedom of choice sounds a bit daft in this context. Imposing views that women must complete their pregnancy does not.

For the record I find the very idea of abortion absolutely repellent, but when I hear cases of women scratching out their foetus with coathangers causing great injury to themselves and rendering themselves barren, or even resorting to suicide rather than see the pregnancy through, I cannot help but arrive at my pro-choice position.

Life and death are antithetical terms. Summarily, your comments are tantamount to an assertion choice is synonomous with death. Quite preposterous in anyones view, surely. I can't fathom the rest of this paragraph of your post unfortunately.

That you reconcile the plight of desperate women scratching out the life inside them with a general perception that it is ok to kill it so long as its by some other means defies reasoning and again is somewhat paradoxical to your stated position of being repelled by the thought of abortion. Death is death period. It's quite pathetic to position pro-choice as some soft fuzzy good ending for all concerned. A life is being terminated. You seem to be aware of that but at the same time are in conflict.