Do you think its fair enough to blame the immigrants?

[eljean]

I been reading news lately and often i read articles about blaming the immigrants from invading the uk and taking all the jobs and more angry briton agrees on it,i feel like since the credit crunch happen with the economy crisis,they seem to put the blame on the PM and the immigrants and also i think immigrants also pays whatever bills that is to be paid and work and did all the paperwork to gain legal right to live in uk, unless those who are staying illegally here,and how bout the briton that goes outside uk to live abroad don't you think they are bit of unfair?im sure before credit crunch they never blame the immigrants about getting all the jobs but now beco'z of the credit crunch and unemploymen they blame it usthey should blame the banks its the banks the causes this all for having a toxic debts and bankruptcy, not the immigrant dont you think???

[GaryFifer]

No blaming them is wrong. Looking for the causes is a complicated historical thing or long period of time. Newspapers like knee-jerk reactions.

The war we fought was for a fairer and just society that does not exclude people. We should not forget these principles.

I see no problem with the people trying to make a better life for their families. What I do worry about is screening of criminals and illnesses. We should have better medical screening and police checks. But that is a diplomatic issue between our country and theirs.

After the war the eastern Europe was suffering and we did create that iron curtain and sold people down the river. So, we shook hands with Stalin back then. Now these people want their slice of the cake. Understandable.

Incidentally my grandfather was Polish. Immigration would came to checkup on where he lived and worked every 6 months.

[MarBell379]

Theyve always been blamed I'm afraid. Its not a new thing.
Personally I dont have any problem with anyone who is working and paying taxes, but I do understand the gripe that immigrants are taking jobs. Sometimes people from other countries are happier to work for less money, and the expansion of the EU has made this very apparent in some trades.

I think the Government have it wrong though, and are exacerbating the problem by not ALLOWING people to work when they first arrive.
In the case of asylum seekers for example, unless there is a specific reason for people NOT to work, I'd like to see this turned around completely and employment made compulsory. Even some sort of community service would be something, as they are a drain on the state (and all of our taxes) from the day they arrive.

[joebloggs]

uncontrolled immigration is a problem, nearly everything the gov does has some sort of controls on it. Before the east Europeans joined the EU, the Home Office said that immigration of new workers from the region would run at the rate of 13,000 a year., nearly 1,000,000 came over a few years. the gov will not admit it by not controlling the number of poles who came here, but it's obvious because they put a limit on Bulgarians and Romanians coming here.

[aposhark]

........but now beco'z of the credit crunch and unemploymen they blame it usthey should blame the banks its the banks the causes this all for having a toxic debts and bankruptcy, not the immigrant dont you think???

From what I hear all around the country, the major problem is with the Eastern Europeans and how people hate the fact that they get benefits for their family who are still back home there.

People have never said to me that it is all immigrants, including Asian people.
It seems like an unwritten rule that people here in the UK do not attack people from Philippines or Thailand because their husbands are here. Asian ladies are not singled out for derision, as far as I can tell.

Personally, I don't mind the free movement of peoples in the EEC, but the benefits that go out of the country is worrying.
I suppose that it must have been reciprocated before from other EEC countries to ours.
The reason why nobody complained on a large scale was that the earning potential for Brits abroad in Poland (for example) was so poor, so that many Brits did not go to the Eastern European countries to work before.
Lots of Brits went to Germany at one time though.

I did know an English girl who got the dole when she lived in Italy and that was 27 years ago

[Northerner]

People who move to this island (and that is basically what the UK is) have always been met with suspicion or worse. First it was the Irish, then the Afro Caribbean's, then the Indian/Pakistani immigrants. And if you go back far enough you might find the same bad feelings towards gypsies, Jews (who were from another land) and so on....

My parents are from Ireland, although my mother was born in London as her father was in the British Army during WW2 but returned to Ireland after the war had finished. And I am pretty sure if I go back far enough through my genealogy, I might find ancestors from all over the globe within my family tree.

And I truly believe that no matter what we look like, we stem from people who have travelled far and wide. All of us!

However, psychologically this country is far more isolated than other nations. Despite claiming to be an open society who welcomes immigrants, the truth is less flattering, we have always resisted "new blood". The same can be said of all of our European neighbours, particularly if the immigrant in question looks different from the natives.

But at least in the modern age we have overcome some obstacles with racism and tribalism, but of course more needs to be done. As an example, this year we got to see our American friends swear into office their first President of African descent. But people from my city seemed to vote in large numbers for the BNP, electing Nick Griffin into office at the European elections. So it seems that we might have made some positive steps as a people but still lack the ability to fully let go of those negative tendencies such as racism.

But I live in hope for the future! I pretty much knew that if I have children they would likely be of mixed race (I am mainly attracted to women of colour). Yet I have a sibling who has considered joining the BNP (seriously racist), and will no doubt get a shock if the day comes when I introduce them to my half pinoy child. Though, I also think some people need to be shocked into seeing sense.

I could not imagine a more boring place if this country was without it's immigrants. No Curry, no Pasta, no Pizza, no Reggae music, no China Town, no Curry Mile... And so on, until I run out of gigabytes left to store the stuff immigrants have given to this country! Yes, there are downsides economically to mass migration, but hey. Money is man made and fake! Community, love and family are what really matter!

Anyway, I had better stop before I start a new Religion

[adam&chryss]

Some of them do pay taxes like me. Some of them spend money in our country, again, like me.
Some of them pay taxes and send their money home to their own country instead of spending in our shops and such, unlike me. It hasnt happened since the recession, its always been there.
Sure theres Brits abroad but I dont know of many that claim any benefits in their new country or that send most of their wages back home.
Of course its not all immigrants, just a certain type.
Anyway this is my country and i`ll say and beleive whatever I like.
As far as im concerned there are enough here and we should shut the borders to anyone not related to someone already here.

[aposhark]

...........I could not imagine a more boring place if this country was without it's immigrants. No Curry, no Pasta, no Pizza, no Reggae music, no China Town, no Curry Mile...

Good post.
One day if you go the full distance with your Filipina, you will be walking through "Curry Mile" (area near Manchester full of Indian restaurants) with love in your heart, and a smaller bank balance as most of it has gone on flights to the Phils to gaze into her eyes. Her immigrant ways will captivate your heart and you will know that most people do not have these enriching moments

Then she will say something that you don't understand at all as she will forget you are not Filipino, and you will laugh out loud and think to yourself "Ain't life grand".
Then she will go very quiet because she will be convinced you have laughed at her and you will know again the richness of cultural differences.
But still, you will kiss her goodnight, and those eyes will still twinkle at you

[KeithD]

With regard to the jobs, the majority of them are low paid and the lazy Brits won't do them. Take the horse racing industry, 100's of staff short for racing stables, a Brit could walk straight into the job tomorrow, but they don't want them, they might get their nails dirty ....and all for what....the minimum wage....long hours.....work weekends.....IT'S A JOB

So they have to bring in East Europeans now to do it otherwise the industry would seize up.

You only have to look at the binmen in this country, they get paid the same as a biologist, pharmacist...and many other science based jobs ....and yet they do much less work than they did in the 80's

[Scouse]

Don't blame immigrants for the problems this country has, they just want to make a better life for their family.

The only way to stop migration is to make it more attractibve for people to stay in their own country by ensuring they have a decent standard of living where they are. Do you really think they want to be way from their loved ones in a strange land?

We in the west have exploited cheap labour, raw materials and questionable employment practices for many years.

Yes, the average person in this country has benefitted from cheap goods and services but the vast majority of the proits go to a few who then pay others to ensure that the pay very little or no tax. These are the same people who want free movement of capital but not free movement of labour. What hypocrisy!

Many jobs in the UK are filled by migrants because they are low paid/dirty/demeaning and many people refuse to do them.

There is enough wealth in the world for every one to have a reasonble standard of living and for nobody to starve/be without water. Until we actually do something about it there will always be migration.

The powers that be want us to blame the inmmigrants, it is a tactic of divide and rule, because while we, as average working people, are fighting each other, the ruling class are laughing at us because we are not fighting them or holding them to account.

I know many immigrants and have no problems with them. Just like British people there are good and bad in all. Take the time to get to know them, they will bring new experiences in to your life and you should learn that they are no different to you and I.

If you want to close the borders, does that mean you don't want othere on this forum to be able to bring their wife/partner to the UK? If not, what's the difference between somebody from the Philippines and somebody from another country? Where do you draw he line? Should Filipinas/Filipinos not be allowed to work? Should they be barred from claiming benefits even though they are here legally?

Sorry if you think this is a rant but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

[Northerner]

With regard to the jobs, the majority of them are low paid and the lazy Brits won't do them. Take the horse racing industry, 100's of staff short for racing stables, a Brit could walk straight into the job tomorrow, but they don't want them, they might get their nails dirty ....and all for what....the minimum wage....long hours.....work weekends.....IT'S A JOB

So they have to bring in East Europeans now to do it otherwise the industry would seize up.

You only have to look at the binmen in this country, they get paid the same as a biologist, pharmacist...and many other science based jobs ....and yet they do much less work than they did in the 80's

Very true Keith

The people that bother me are never the immigrants who move here to have a better life and work towards their dreams. It is the people who would rather spend the morning watching Jeremy Kyle than doing something productive with their lives.

Politically, I am as far from a Tory as can be in many way's. Yet I find it disturbing when I hear some single mother proclaiming her "Job" as a single mother the most important job of all, and it is the states duty to provide for her. Now, again.... I am a believer in the state system, even if I never claim a single benefit, I will never begrudge somebody the security that it brings, and I am proud to live in a socierty that has a level of care for the poor. I was raised by a single mother as my father died when I was very young, my mother worked long hours even though she could never provide everything moneywise from her income. But, damnit... She tried!

But the problem with our nation is how we like to blame others for our faults! We are a nation of blamers, never admitting to our mistakes and then working to fix them. We prefer to point the finger and leave it at that!

And if I keep up this preaching, I'm going to have to claim my tax back for Religious purposes!

[aposhark]

........Sorry if you think this is a rant but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

Excellent well thought-out post

[Northerner]

Sorry if you think this is a rant but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

Scouse, I agree 100%

But you and I will be long gone by the time any real change ever comes aound!

[GaryFifer]

With regard to the jobs, the majority of them are low paid and the lazy Brits won't do them. Take the horse racing industry, 100's of staff short for racing stables, a Brit could walk straight into the job tomorrow, but they don't want them, they might get their nails dirty ....and all for what....the minimum wage....long hours.....work weekends.....IT'S A JOB

So they have to bring in East Europeans now to do it otherwise the industry would seize up.

You only have to look at the binmen in this country, they get paid the same as a biologist, pharmacist...and many other science based jobs ....and yet they do much less work than they did in the 80's

Indeed I can comment on that one. My father worked on the bins in the 1980s and he was always getting bitten,cut, now his back is screwed. And now retired he gets penalised for having a private pension, he is above the council tax benefit limit. Mad balancing! And me I worked as lab technician on bloods and i got less money than he did. But I am glad to see the binmen get the plastic bins. Better that, than your father comes home cut,bruised, and diseased and from touching got knows what with the old plastic bag system.

[fred]

how bout the briton that goes outside uk to live abroad don't you think they are bit of unfair?

Well not really if you are comparing the situation with lets say..The Philippines!!
I certainly can`t take a job that a Filipino is able to do,Im also not allowed to own the house I built or the land it sits on bought..(wait for it)








with my own money..

The same rules should apply to Filipino`s in the UK eh???
Quid pro quo eh???

[beppe]

I been reading news lately and often i read articles about blaming the immigrants from invading the uk and taking all the jobs and more angry briton agrees on it,i feel like since the credit crunch happen with the economy crisis,they seem to put the blame on the PM and the immigrants and also i think immigrants also pays whatever bills that is to be paid and work and did all the paperwork to gain legal right to live in uk, unless those who are staying illegally here,and how bout the briton that goes outside uk to live abroad don't you think they are bit of unfair?im sure before credit crunch they never blame the immigrants about getting all the jobs but now beco'z of the credit crunch and unemploymen they blame it usthey should blame the banks its the banks the causes this all for having a toxic debts and bankruptcy, not the immigrant dont you think???

It is always easy to blame someone for anything. Immigrants are blamed for taking "jobs" many locals are not interested, provide goods and services at reasonable costs, nevertheless they are the scapegoats when the economy slows down. Who said the world is fair?

[Tawi2]

Your right Fred,but thats in an ideal world,pinas isnt "ideal" in reciprocating citizens rights with other countries.As for UK complaining about immigrants or refugees,every single other country does EXACTLY the sameI have even been in 3'rd world countries where they complained about the immigrants/refugees and treated theirs a lot more harshly than we do ours here.

[aromulus]

Well not really if you are comparing the situation with lets say..The Philippines!!
I certainly can`t take a job that a Filipino is able to do,Im also not allowed to own the house I built or the land it sits on bought..(wait for it)
with my own money..
The same rules should apply to Filipino`s in the UK eh???
Quid pro quo eh???

It is always easy to blame someone for anything. Immigrants are blamed for taking "jobs" many locals are not interested, provide goods and services at reasonable costs, nevertheless they are the scapegoats when the economy slows down. Who said the world is fair?

Your right Fred,but thats in an ideal world,pinas isnt "ideal" in reciprocating citizens rights with other countries.As for UK complaining about immigrants or refugees,every single other country does EXACTLY the sameI have even been in 3'rd world countries where they complained about the immigrants/refugees and treated theirs a lot more harshly than we do ours here.

Maybe an idea......?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8170187.stm

I do not advocate for such an arsh treatment, but I can confidently say that Italy has had enough of illegals entering the country.

The catch 22 situation of "no job, no accomodation - no accomodation, no job" is valid for italians as well.
I know that for a fact, because it did happen to me over 40 years ago.

[Tawi2]

When I used to be based in Hong Kong the colony had a big problem with Viet asylum seekers,the solution was to round the lot up and stick them all,every man-jack of them on an island When I worked in Pakistan during the Afghan/russian game I used to visit the Immigrant camp on the pakistan side of the Khyber,they lived in total squalour but no one cared,Zimbabwe refugees are flooding into places like South Africa,doesnt anyone remember the large number of attacks on them?South Africans clubbing them,hunting them in gangs?No?Immigrants are treated a lot better in this country than most,go over to Calais,check out the guys hanging around in large numbers,guess why?

[KeithD]

We in the west have exploited cheap labour, raw materials and questionable employment practices for many years.

That is actually centuries Most major city building were built by slaves.

[Tawi2]

Yes,Bristol is a classic example,but inherited guilt is a ridiculous concept,if thats the case the italians should feel guilty because of the invasion of the UK How far back does the burden of inherited guilt go?Its the here,the now,and the future we live in,not the past.

[aromulus]

Yes,Bristol is a classic example,but inherited guilt is a ridiculous concept,if thats the case the italians should feel guilty because of the invasion of the UK How far back does the burden of inherited guilt go?Its the here,the now,and the future we live in,not the past.

The roman conquests were a legitimate enterprise to rid the known world of barbarians.

[Arturo]

I been reading news lately and often i read articles about blaming the immigrants from invading the uk and taking all the jobs and more angry briton agrees on it,i feel like since the credit crunch happen with the economy crisis,they seem to put the blame on the PM and the immigrants and also i think immigrants also pays whatever bills that is to be paid and work and did all the paperwork to gain legal right to live in uk, unless those who are staying illegally here,and how bout the briton that goes outside uk to live abroad don't you think they are bit of unfair?im sure before credit crunch they never blame the immigrants about getting all the jobs but now beco'z of the credit crunch and unemploymen they blame it usthey should blame the banks its the banks the causes this all for having a toxic debts and bankruptcy, not the immigrant dont you think???

As a brit living in Australia, I have experience of both the UK and the growing anti immigrant feelings building higher.

There is no short answer to you comments.

When things are bad, some need to look where to cast blame.
In the UK, Jamaicans were accepted by the shipload to teh UK, after that came a flood of People from India and Pakistan. Again in the main they were mostly accepted - except by the raciist fraternity, and these were seen as loonies and basically ignored.

What happened then is, the UK became a EU member. The EU made new legislation to allow any person, a national of the European Union, to enter and work in any member country. And teh UK was flooded with Poles and other nations where people are poor and work a month for what hey can earn in the UK on about 2 days.
That said I have one brother in Spain and one in France. Both have a business and doing OK!

England is seen as a soft touch to all immigrants legal or not which is why they gather in France to get to the UK.
Other countries like France and Germany dont give them houses, cars and money so easy. The UK does!

It is harder to get work and some bosses now prefer to take a European worker..and pay him less than a Brit. So the Brit wont apply for that job because they need more money to pay bills.

So the English having read in newspapers about things like this..believe it and naturally...dont like it!

People say the UK is a racist country. This tends to be seen as white English do not like brown or black skinned people. I dont thinks thats true - except for the loonies - who get ignored.
The English in the UK are just fed of "believing" they are treated worse than the immigrants who get help on arrival.

Brits Leaving the UK
I left the UK after spending 25 years and more looking at ways to get a visa, which eventuall happened and I moved over to join my daughter last October. It also cost a bucket load of money to pay for the visa, ship all our gear over.. at least that which the thieving packers from Liverpool did not lift.
Most moving to Aussie do so for better paid jobs, a better climate and better lifestyle.

BUt, Aussie is not a land of milk and honey and even they are having a bad time AND... the aussies are not taking as miany immigrants now. No jobs!

Do I miss the UK... I miss Sky sports!, Morrison meat and potatoe pies, REAL bacon, and cheaper food, coz it bloody dearer here!
Its actually winter here now and piggin freezing at nights an dtehse houses are built to keep the heat out..not in!

Dont get too upset as an "immigrant" just try to understand the real situation which was created by idiots in charge of financial institutions in the USA and supported by bigger idiots in every other country.
I am not a fan of George Brown or the Labour party, but he is a victim of the situation, no the cause of it.

Its EU casual workers immigration and illegals that get people PI**ED OFF - not pretty filipina's being in the UK with their husbands!

[eljean]

I think that if ever gonna like stop people from immigrating here in uk yeah,and remove all the immigrants i think it would really cost them a lot because majority of immigrants come here for a living not just to claim benefits,its so expensive to live in uk you know, with all the taxes and everything and as of now there more brits is coming out of uk to live abroad but no matter what the governments, overrule all this differences and equality amongs multicultural society and just remember this if you can remember the first chapter in the Book called Life in Uk about Migration to Uk it says there that immigrants were hired to work and help "Rebuild Britain"

[Arturo]

Theyve always been blamed I'm afraid. Its not a new thing.

The Poles weere in fact, accepted and respected during and after WW2.
Where I loved as a kid was an ex anti aircraft gun station. Afte r the was it was turned into a Hostel for Italian ex prisoners of war and Poles had a section. Everybody was friendly to them.

When the Poles flooded the UK a few years ago.it was simply because they were the first of the new batch of members of the "European Union".

The fact that they arrived in busloads and started trading as plumbers and electricians and charging less than "Brits" made them at first welcome...then the papers announced that they were claiming low pay benefits, Family Credits etc,. and families still in Poland were getting these payments, totalling £8Million a month! tended to piss people off a bit.
After that an dteh amouunt of publicity given to illegals waiting in France an dthen finding out from TV, that terrorist suspects were also illegal started a lot of bad feelngs. Remember the policeman shot dead in manchester.... the muslims were illegal I think.

In times of crisis, people look to cast blame - and because its known that the UK is soft on immigration and there are about 1 million illegals in th coutry.... its an easy target.

[GaryFifer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but during the Thatcher years, did the government cut Border patrols and Immigration for saving costs and efficiency

[KeithD]

Correct me if I am wrong, but during the Thatcher years, did the government cut Border patrols and Immigration for saving costs and efficiency

Actually the UK has NEVER had any border control until the last few years when Labour put them in place, but only because of public uproar, and so they could win at the last election.

[adam&chryss]

As I said the borders should be closed to people NOT related to somebody already here. I beleive being married is being related?
If their own country can`t provide for them I dont see how its my problem to sort it out.
We are always being told to keep our noses out of other countries business and I couldn`t agree more.
My local paper always has articles about people of "eastern european" appearance stealing from peoples handbags and stuff while shopping.
I think they equal out with the ones that want to earn money and improve their life.
I agree with everything Chryss has had to prove to be here and I beleive that ALL foreigners should have to do the same regardless of their country of origin.
If that was the case I dont beleive for one minute that we`d be in this situation of easy pickings for immigrants.

[joebloggs]

just to be a ..

it's not true that the majority are here doing low paid jobs that brits don't want to do..

2007-2008 - 86,0000 work permits were issued, and you don't get a work permit to pick fruit and veg, and remember Europeans don't need a work permit.


hsmp or tier 1 are skilled workers, they don't need a job offer to come here, as long as you the the points to apply,you can come here and apply for any job you want.

as for doing the jobs brits don't want to do, the care home my mom is in, i would say 50% are whiteys.

people will do any job as long as you get fair pay for a fair days work, enough to live on, not survive on. as for the standard of living in the uk, remember your parents and their parents fought for them standards as well as the unions, remember what the tories said, it would cost 100,000s of jobs to bring in the minimum wage..

you have to protect your one workers and jobs,just like any other country would do.

[fred]

pinas isnt "ideal" in reciprocating citizens rights with other countries

Its the UK diplomats that should be negotiating the reciprocation of its OWN citizens rights..Not the other way around.
The negotiating material they have to work with on our behalf is simply awesome..
All they do here is sup on expensive coffee in 5* hotel lobbies and put the Makati ladies drinks on the expense sheet!!

Listen...I dont pay UK tax any more so I cant complain too much.
I just feel so sorry for you poor buggers..





Good posts from Arturo..