Am I being fooled???

[pacificelectric]

I have been in a long distance relation with a widow from Davao and in spite of some arguments and misunderstandings have been able to build something quite strong. For some reasons I have had insecurities because of her past as she has been married for 12 years before being widowed and now and then I had these fears that her past would interfere with our present and future.

Recently we had other arguments and things have become more difficult and perhaps because I am starting to wonder if this relation is really viable I decided today to discuss a topic which we virtually never discussed before: the future of her children once we would be married and after she would move to France with me.

She has three children: one daughter aged 23, a licensed nurse recently graduated, a son aged 19 who is studying to be a chef and a daughter not even of legal age, due to be 18 in March 2010.

So far she has been very open minded and willing to discuss freely and openly any subject, but when I asked her what would happen to her children after the marriage she immediately closed down and told me in an embarrassed tone that she was reluctant to discuss it as she preferred to wait until we would be together as I should visit her in September.

I politely but firmly insisted and she said that it would be better to discuss that later, perhaps after the marriage (!) and she said that normally in the Philippines you should not add an embarrassment to another one and since (she said) I have anxieties about her past I should not discuss her children’s future now. She’s 50, intelligent and smart but I am 54 and not totally dumb. I clearly sensed from her voice that she was just finding a cheap excuse to avoid the topic and when I ended up asking bluntly if she intended to bring her children with her in France she said “of course not”...

We parted a bit coldly and after she sent me an e-mail of which I am showing this excerpt:

i'd better discuss things about my children if we are alone and talking face to face. i dont want to make you anxious about them as for me its still too early. we have to meet first before anything else. i'm glad its already next month and i'm sure we can plan and discuss it openly when we will be alone. i dont want to add your anxiety coz i observed we still argue on my past and and you have not overcome yet your personal anxiety...

Quite smart indeed.... But this of course is interesting:

my family will not be a total burden to you. everything in the future that involves you, will be openly discussed and for you to decide of course.

My understanding is that what is not a total burden is a partial burden and this is probably what needs to be “openly” discussed....

I have never suspected her of being a gold digger even if she is not affluent but this recent incident on top of her frantic desire to get married as soon as possible are instilling some doubts in my mind..... I know that when you marry a Filipina you marry the whole family but I have read enough stuff on this very forum about quarrels and misunderstandings over “sustento” and financial assistance to the relatives to be careful and even if I am not kuripot I do not like to look at myself in a mirror and see the word “sucker” engraved on my forehead....

[Tawi2]

Difficult call,when you marry a pinay you dont always marry the family,depends upon the individual,some owe more allegiance to their husband others still feel more love towards their family,and some are torn in two with utang na loobWomen cant be categorised,Oh my filipina wife is submissive,she is quiet,she does this...she does that....thats crap,women the world over are exactly the same though countries like pinas place a greater emphasis on family collectives rather than the individuality we do here in the west,hence their reliance on ang pamilya,she is wrong about we dont chat about things like this openly in Pinas,I have known women who were 110% honest and open with me,and that was and is also from Dabaw,I think you might have a few surprises in store reading between the lines

[Tawi2]

Frantic desire to get married ASAPHear that sound?Its alarm bells ringing in the distance,you could be the last train out of town Lots of guys jump in out of their depth,meet a nice lady online,fall for her smile,her sweet words,marry in haste repent at leisure is a truism,I have seen it with dozens,maybe hundreds of guys over the years living here,in Hong Kong or the time I spent in Pinas,sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt,but 9 times out of 10 the one who wanted the rush wedding was the lady

[Tawi2]

In her defence however can I just say if you really,truly,deeply love a woman enough to accept her "Baggage"(and I hate that term as I have some of my own)then you should also be prepared to carry it for her as she has struggled with it for a while and its heavy

[trader dave]

i relive my stories by past experiances i would imagine i upset a few people along the way but i dont care
i say it how i have found it

i have been involved with the philippines and pilipinas for the past 15 yrs so i know a little how it works and it is quite simple MONEY IS NUMBER 1


you are an investment to any pilipina and her family so my friend YOU MAKE THE RULES get everything in the open now you insist on AN OPEN And honest relationship FROM DAY 1 AND INSIST NO FECKING LIES if it does not feel right walk away my friend dont take that crap we will discuss it after we are MARRIED if she is pushing get out while you can

[pacificelectric]

Frantic desire to get married ASAP

Yes, frantic. When I told her we should first go to the Embassy and apply for a Certificate of no Impediment and would have to wait several months for the response she was just distressed and wondered why we could not just marry when I walked off the plane. No kidding! This can be acceptable for a young Pinay but she is 50 and when she married first, that was with her college bf, and they dated 7 years before saying "I do"......

[Tawi2]

Pacific,your going to get ladies later telling you give her the benefit of the doubt.....Understand her.....etc.....etc....etc,you know why?Because they empathise more,Trader Dave is giving you wise counsel,no offence intended to Dave but I know he has been about a bit,he knows the score,no woman would be desperate to marry you without meeting unless...........Go into the kitchen,get your egg timer and turn it over,see the sands of time running out?Always be a bit wary,its like the sands at Morcambe Bay,it all looks the same to the inexperienced eye,but some will suck you under,some will be firm and support you,step back and examine the situation from a different angle

[britishdetained]

Yes, frantic. When I told her we should first go to the Embassy and apply for a Certificate of no Impediment and would have to wait several months for the response she was just distressed and wondered why we could not just marry when I walked off the plane. No kidding! This can be acceptable for a young Pinay but she is 50 and when she married first, that was with her college bf, and they dated 7 years before saying "I do"......

Marriage is something you must plan well. No reason for a rush especially if not all the cards are laid on the table.

[Tawi2]

Marriage is something you must plan well. No reason for a rush especially if not all the cards are laid on the table.

Let me tell you something,you impress me more and more,Kevin has a good catchPacific,she panicked when you mentioned the delay in wedding plans because she thought the train was pulling out of the station and she hadnt got her ticket,pinas is a matriarchal society,its run by the women,even their president is a woman,BUT its the guys who pull the strings,your a guy,lay out your cards on the table,show her your hand then ask to see hers(check her sleeve,just in case she has an ace secreted away up there)Its not being chauvenistic,thats a concept that hasnt surfaced over there yet I have had relationships with a number of women over there from a number of different social backgrounds,they all wanted/expected me to take control,they actually told me that,your the one sitting in the drivers seat mate,most pinays wont burn their bras and shout for womens lib

[britishdetained]

]Let me tell you something,you impress me more and more,Kevin has a good catch[/B]Pacific,she panicked when you mentioned the delay in wedding plans because she thought the train was pulling out of the station and she hadnt got her ticket,pinas is a matriarchal society,its run by the women,even their president is a woman,BUT its the guys who pull the strings,your a guy,lay out your cards on the table,show her your hand then ask to see hers(check her sleeve,just in case she has an ace secreted away up there)Its not being chauvenistic,thats a concept that hasnt surfaced over there yet I have had relationships with a number of women over there from a number of different social backgrounds,they all wanted/expected me to take control,they actually told me that,your the one sitting in the drivers seat mate,most pinays wont burn their bras and shout for womens lib

I hope so...just trying to be honest with pacific

Remember this...you need to check out first the best shoes for you before you purchase it! Marriage is something that you must plan very well. Besides, it is her that you are marrying (if it can be) but her children should not be your burden (gosh they are old already..) Its shameful but true many pinays want white guy for MONEY. But remember your the guy...you must be in control of your life. Nobody must point a gun on your head to tell you WHAT SHE WANTS.

[trader dave]

Pacific,your going to get ladies later telling you give her the benefit of the doubt.....Understand her.....etc.....etc....etc,you know why?Because they empathise more,Trader Dave is giving you wise counsel,no offence intended to Dave but I know he has been about a bit,he knows the score,no woman would be desperate to marry you without meeting unless...........Go into the kitchen,get your egg timer and turn it over,see the sands of time running out?Always be a bit wary,its like the sands at Morcambe Bay,it all looks the same to the inexperienced eye,but some will suck you under,some will be firm and support you,step back and examine the situation from a different angle

thanks tawi you just put it a little more diplomaticly than me you have such a way with words

[Tawi2]

Well said Its normally deflowered disgraced virgins who are marched quickly down the aisle to avoid shame you have made several uncertain posts in the past,you have an underlying current of unease,something you feel isnt quite right but you cant quite put your finger on it,your the guy,the head of the household,you pay the bills,you make the arrangements,your the one who says green for go!But she certainly wants you putting a ring on her finger PDQ and thats got to set alarms ringing seeing as how you only met her scant months ago,lots of guys never meet their true soul-mate,they settle for an "almost" woman,she is almost perfect but they dont have many options so they take whats available,its always best to hold out a little,the world still turns,life still goes on but the planet is filled with women

[Tawi2]

thanks tawi you just put it a little more diplomaticly than me you have such a way with words

Dave,we used to call it pussy-whipped,a guy would get involved with the first woman who flashed him a smile,its a waste of time saying avoid her because remember when your mum said "Dave dont do that" whats the first thing you did when she turned her back? Its always best to learn by experience,she is a cruel teacher but you never forget her lessons

[britishdetained]

Dave,we used to call it pussy-whipped,a guy would get involved with the first woman who flashed him a smile,its a waste of time saying avoid her because remember when your mum said "Dave dont do that" whats the first thing you did when she turned her back? Its always best to learn by experience,she is a cruel teacher but you never forget her lessons

i never learned my lesson then

[joebloggs]

married to the family, i think i'm married to the whole block


sounds to me she's embarrassed about asking you to help her kids out til they have left uni as you have not offered to help, or have you ??

so what do you want to happen to her kids (thou not really kids being 23, 19 and nearly 18) ?

maybe she wants them with her or you to help support the 2 younger ones ?

thou uni costs are not much compared to here.

[Tawi2]

9 times out of 10 I got my fingers burnt Pacific,dont take any of this as a personal critique,its just borne out by experiences down the line,we all have to jump into the pool and test the depth for ourselves,I was at the pearl Farm on Samal earlier this year,enjoy your holiday

[pacificelectric]

married to the family, i think i'm married to the whole block


sounds to me she's embarrassed about asking you to help her kids out til they have left uni as you have not offered to help, or have you ??

Last week I sent her 60.000 pesos to have age spots removed from her cheek with diamond laser peel by a dermatologist, so perhaps she thinks I print banknotes in the cellar......

I bet this is more less what she has in mind but she also is not sure how deep I have swallowed the bait so far. She is very smart and even if she claims she loves me with passion I am sure she has something in mind for her children.

[joebloggs]

Last week I sent her 60.000 pesos to have age spots removed from her cheek with diamond laser peel by a dermatologist, so perhaps she thinks I print banknotes in the cellar......

I bet this is more less what she has in mind but she also is not sure how deep I have swallowed the bait so far. She is very smart and even if she claims she loves me with passion I am sure she has something in mind for her children.

, just be thankful her kids didn't ask for it to

did she ask you to pay for the treatment or did you offer ?

i could write a book for the things i've paid for, from A to Z

[Tawi2]

Its a bit like a leaking tap,replace the washer and fix it when you first notice the drip,or the flow just gets faster and faster till its unstoppable

[trader dave]

my wife now wants me to be so much in control of here life i find it unearving but if you understand her life before you would understand why she has never had the loving caring family upbringing she no relations no one has ever showed her any attention no one has ever cared


so now i am everything to her father figure ,husband ,lover the whole lot

which brings its own concerns but as far as material things go SHE ASKS FOR NOTHING and she never pushed to get married it was me who pushed because i could see a gem but i am a realist

[britishdetained]

Last week I sent her 60.000 pesos to have age spots removed from her cheek with diamond laser peel by a dermatologist, so perhaps she thinks I print banknotes in the cellar......

I bet this is more less what she has in mind but she also is not sure how deep I have swallowed the bait so far. She is very smart and even if she claims she loves me with passion I am sure she has something in mind for her children.

...just an advice, never show too much money nor pamper women with luxury. You will be loved not because on how much you can guve but because youre a wonderful person. remember this...women are born materialistic, but if they are tame then you'll see the real lady in her. Love is something you cant buy nor bribe with. You can be loved unconditionally without anything in return

[Matt7]

Can I ask if she asked too? I think me and my girlfriend are both trying to work out the same thing on this forum.

Are you threatened she'd love you less if you refused to pay for things? Maybe you'd feel more comfortable with the relationship if you treated it as you would any other. If you throw money at her and she willingly accepts it then you set a dangerous precedent. She will come to expect it and you will probably end up resenting the fact you spend excessive amounts on sometimes frivolous things.

From what I have seen, as a generalisation on these forums, its when people actively start treating their relationship differently to what they would with any other girlfriend that problems start to occur. Would you feel so uncomfortable if you hadn't have forked out 60,000 PHP for this surgery?

To say you marry into Filipino families in some sense true, but would you expect an English girlfriend to dump her kids and move abroad for you? No. If your other half has a family from another relationship you marry into that family regardless of colour, creed, or country

[Matt7]

...just an advice, never show too much money nor pamper women with luxury. You will be loved not because on how much you can guve but because youre a wonderful person. remember this...women are born materialistic, but if they are tame then you'll see the real lady in her. Love is something you cant buy nor bribe with. You can be loved unconditionally without anything in return

Well said

[pacificelectric]

, just be thankful her kids didn't ask for it to

did she ask you to pay for the treatment or did you offer ?

i could write a book for the things i've paid for, from A to Z

Actually I noticed she had these spots on a close up photo and in doubt I forwarded the photo to a friend of mine who is a dermatologist and her advice was that she should see a specialist and I offered the treatment in full knowledge and I am glad I did as the spots could have spread. I really cannot say she is taking advantage of me and lately I discovered she pawned things to pay invoices and she would not tell me as she felt shameful but with the issue of her children's future I feel like I have hit a very sensitive spot......

[Tawi2]

I have known someone for five years,she is incredibly intelligent,gave up a VERY good job with many fringe benefits plus car for me,she has a great job now,lots of travel,but you know something?She is in Pinas but not once,never,ever has she even hinted at money,in fact I felt bad last week when she asked did I want something from the states which is maybe 50,000 pesos?True love doesnt have the kerching of a cash register in the background or pound or dollar signs in the eyes We all have a gut instinct for a reason,if something just doesnt seem right its your internal alarm telling you maybe you should step back from the edge.

[Jay&Zobel]

Pacific,your going to get ladies later telling you give her the benefit of the doubt.....Understand her.....etc.....etc....etc,you know why?Because they empathise more,

NOPE, not me... Haste makes waste and I believe in long courtship period hahaha Being courted and wooed is just awesome!

She has three children: one daughter aged 23, a licensed nurse recently graduated, a son aged 19 who is studying to be a chef and a daughter not even of legal age, due to be 18 in March 2010.

sounds to me she's embarrassed about asking you to help her kids out til they have left uni as you have not offered to help, or have you ??

so what do you want to happen to her kids (thou not really kids being 23, 19 and nearly 18) ?

maybe she wants them with her or you to help support the 2 younger ones ?

thou uni costs are not much compared to here.

Yep, that's what I thought too... If you will be married the soonest, the sooner she can fly with you & her nearly 18 child might come with her too? (as she isn't not yet in the legal age). Could be possible that they would want to be French citizens somehow. Or she's just expecting to send money to help support them...

But in a way, if you are going to marry someone who has kids already, you need to reall take some responsibilies for them...

[Jay&Zobel]

PhP60,000 for a diamond peel? That's like a boob job in PI? lol

You haven't even met her yet you are spending so much money on her. What more when you are together...

[joebloggs]

Actually I noticed she had these spots on a close up photo and in doubt I forwarded the photo to a friend of mine who is a dermatologist and her advice was that she should see a specialist and I offered the treatment in full knowledge and I am glad I did as the spots could have spread. I really cannot say she is taking advantage of me and lately I discovered she pawned things to pay invoices and she would not tell me as she felt shameful but with the issue of her children's future I feel like I have hit a very sensitive spot......

well then that's good you offered ,has she ever asked for large amounts of money of expensive things ?

i've got 2 step kids, thou they are a lot younger than your g/fs, from the start they were included in our plans b4 we married. looks like you've both have not agreed on this yet. maybe you should ask her what she truly wants for her kids. as i've said maybe she is embarrassed to ask you to help support her kids.. so maybe your not being fooled

[britishdetained]

True love doesnt have the kerching of a cash register in the background or pound or dollar signs in the eyes We all have a gut instinct for a reason,if something just doesnt seem right its your internal alarm telling you maybe you should step back from the edge.[/QUOTE]

true in deed

[Piamed]

In my view it is not at all unreasonable for a woman to want to bring her children to where she will be living or at least to provide assitance to them. I'd be concerned about any woman that did not have the welfare of any kids she had in mind.

You mentioned that you have anxieties and your lady has also asserted the same. Clearly, she feels concerned that you might not be prepared to consider her unless she povides whatever asurances you made led her to believe you require. For her part, she would like to meet with you first so that you judge her on the basis of who she is and whatever chemistry exists rather than a rather impersonal alignment with a checklist of criteria.

That is how it appears to me. I dont think there is any direct evidence suggesting that she is a goldigger at all.