Second Visa?

[Arthur Little]

I wish people (especially those who took the spouse route) would stop giving incorrect information about fiancee visas . You do not need to have evidence of any bookings, and even a provisional date might be difficult if you don't know when the visa will be granted.

The ECOs know it is difficult if not impossible to make any real arrangemens for a wedding in the UK until both the bride and groom are actually in the UK. Also you could have the biggest wedding provisionally booked, but it doesn't actually mean you are going to get married.

Being one of those who opted for the spousal route, I'm quite prepared to admit I am not 100 per cent au fait with the PRECISE requirements for the fiance(e) alternative. In the light of Darren's reply, I decided, this morning, to do a bit more research and logged-on to the following website:

http://www.migrationexpert.co/uk/Vis...sa_fiancee.asp ... where there is a section which clearly states that "applicants for a fiancee visa will require to provide EVIDENCE of their intention to marry".

[darren-b]

Being one of those who opted for the spousal route, I'm quite prepared to admit I am not 100 per cent au fait with the PRECISE requirements for the fiance(e) alternative. In the light of Darren's reply, I decided, this morning, to do a bit more research and logged-on to the following website:

http://www.migrationexpert.co/uk/Vis...sa_fiancee.asp ... where there is a section which clearly states that "applicants for a fiancee visa will require to provide EVIDENCE of their intention to marry".

Not an official source of information though...

From an official source of information.... http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/settlement/fiancees

"SET1.18 What evidence is required of marriage arrangements?

The ECO needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place.

The law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place.

The ECO can reasonably expect the couple to have made some tentative plans for the wedding. Any evidence that may be available that wedding arrangements are in hand may help in this respect."

It does not state that you have to provide provisional bookings. The fact that many of us (including Bluebirdjones and myself) got fiancee visas easily without provisional bookings proves this. Our tentative 'plans' when we applied were that we going to get married in the UK in May.

[Arthur Little]

The ECO needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place.

Which is what my original post implied.

The law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place.

Understandable! Which, was WHY I said that I always thought that it was a daft pre-requisite to expect proof of this kind. Nonetheless, I have always been under the impression that it WAS needed.

The ECO can reasonably expect the couple to have made some tentative plans for the wedding. Any evidence that may be available that wedding arrangements are in hand may help in this respect."

What KIND of tentative plans?

Our tentative 'plans' when we applied were that we going to get married in the UK in May.

No disrespect, but surely this *equates with your own statement earlier to the effect that "you could have the biggest wedding booked [ACTUAL plan] but it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to get married" ... *IN THAT, when YOU applied you indicated you were getting married in the UK in May [only TENTATIVE plan,] which no more proved that the wedding would ACTUALLY take place either. Indeed, by its 'tentative' nature, it's LESS of an indication that the plan was likely to be fulfilled - even though it WAS - if you catch my drift.

[darren-b]

also i can tell you most if not everyone on here, did supply some sort of evidence of their proposed wedding, and they all, but maybe one didn't get their visa, i don't remember anyone not sending any evidence at all of their proposed wedding ?? thou i maybe wrong, any more takers on this ???

can you tell me anyone who has been refused for sending evidence of their proposed wedding?. can i tell you who hasn't been refused for not sending some sort of evidence, no i can't because i think everyone did, the embassy do random checks, i know of one person at least on here, where the embassy contacted the person who was suppose to be making their wedding cake ( i think it was ady ?? ) and when they failed to, and that was one of the reasons for refusing the visa, thou i think it was overturned on appeal.

Err..... Neither Bluebirdjones or myself did provide any evidence of our proposed wedding. Searching round previous messages others who didn't provide any evidence includes DianaKevy, JudyHon, Ann07, and xebec. So that's six on here who definitely did not supply some sort of evidence of their proposed wedding and I am sure there are others on here who did not either.

The couple I think you are referring to is Philip/Frances who were not entirely truthfully with a visit visa, and hence the ECO was a bit suspicious of them. And when they checked their caterers because she was doing it cash-in-hand she denied all knowledge. Who knows if they hadn't provided any evidence they might not have been refused the first time.

The point Bluebirdjones and myself are trying to make is that you do not have to provide any proposed bookings. Back in the day when you had to have an interview the ECO wasn't at all worried that we didn't provide any and hence this is why I do not advise people to provide it.

[joebloggs]

true, but quoted from him..

It is a Catch-22 situation..... you cannot do anything OFFICIAL until your lady arrives here.
Yes, you could book a hall, pre-book the Archbishop of Canterbury, order a cake, arrange to get your hair cut, etc etc .....
BUT all these things can be cancelled, or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

So, the "evidence" is not worth the paper it's written (or printed) on.


i know many more than 6 who did send evidence that showed they intend to get wed, but if ive missed the point somewhere ?? sending some evidence is better than no evidence, thou i'm just being a ...

can't check all he posted, as i've got to go to work now

[darren-b]

true, but quoted from him..

It is a Catch-22 situation..... you cannot do anything OFFICIAL until your lady arrives here.
Yes, you could book a hall, pre-book the Archbishop of Canterbury, order a cake, arrange to get your hair cut, etc etc .....
BUT all these things can be cancelled, or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

So, the "evidence" is not worth the paper it's written (or printed) on.


i know many more than 6 who did send evidence that showed they intend to get wed, but if ive missed the point somewhere ?? sending some evidence is better than no evidence, thou i'm just being a ...

can't check all he posted, as i've got to go to work now

I think you have missed the point... Just because someone sent evidence it does not mean they needed to send evidence. If you were planning to book your wedding prior to applying for the visa then send the bookings, but if you weren't then it's daft to get some proposed bookings just to add to your application (you are basically supplying false evidence...).

If you can show someone who was refused and the reason was that they did not provide any evidence or someone who was told that if they hadn't provided any evidence they would have been refused then I will change my opinion.

[Bluebirdjones]

“but how long you wait is determined by luck and how busy the embassy is” –Jbloggs

I totally disagree. Granted the embassy is busy, and it now seems to take 6-8 weeks for your application to get to the top of the pile, but then the strength and quality of your application will shine through.

If you follow the rules & guidelines, and put yourself in the shoes of the ECO (and understand what he/she is going to be concerned about, need clarification of), then you are almost assured of a successful (timely) “YES” result.

The ECO does not need to wade through pages & pages of printed e-mails and messages saying “I love you”…. nor is gonna be impressed with a letter from your local Holy-Joe saying that you attend church every Sunday and he’ll be proud to conduct the wedding ceremony.

What WILL impress him is a concise statement of your finances…. not just a bank statement & pay slips, but long-term investments (ISA’s, shares, endowments etc etc), and an update on your future pension situation. This shows that you have thought about the consequences of marriage, it’s not some spur-of-the moment “let’s get married” affair, you have stability in your financial affairs, and are already thinking of how to provide for the future.

What will ALSO impress the ECO is if your future wife has already travelled outside the Philippines. Visas (and entry/exit stamps) from other countries in her passport are the equivalent of gold ! An itinerary of countries she has visited (dates of entry/exit, reason for trip) is a must. This shows the ECO that the applicant is very unlikely to be entering a “marriage of convenience”, or be an economic refugee, as she could have effectively already done that in countries she’s already visited.

So, NO, it’s not “luck”….. but by emphasising the good points, and presenting the information in a concise, readable, and relevant way, you are basically giving the ECO no option but to say “Yes”.

[Bluebirdjones]

.... your comments & thoughts are ALWAYS appreciated, but on this one I think you should bow out gracefully
and leave it to the people who've ACTUALLY gone down the Fiancee route.

Yes, you are correct... the application form does say "will require to provide EVIDENCE of their intention to marry",
but this is a misnomer.

It is a Catch-22 situation..... you cannot do anything OFFICIAL until your lady arrives here.
Yes, you could book a hall, pre-book the Archbishop of Canterbury, order a cake, arrange to get your hair cut, etc etc .....
BUT all these things can be cancelled, or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

So, the "evidence" is not worth the paper it's written (or printed) on.

It's the total strength of your full application that will decide on the visa, not on the £8 per head or £50 per head
wedding breakfast menu !

[Arthur Little]

.... your comments & thoughts are ALWAYS appreciated, but on this one I think you should bow out gracefully
and leave it to the people who've ACTUALLY gone down the Fiancee route.

[sigh of relief] ... Perhaps you're right! I shall simply agree to differ on this occasion.

Yes, you are correct... the application form does say "will require to provide EVIDENCE of their intention to marry",
but this is a misnomer.

Thank you for that, at least.

It is a Catch-22 situation..... you cannot do anything OFFICIAL until your lady arrives here.
Yes, you could book a hall, pre-book the Archbishop of Canterbury, order a cake, arrange to get your hair cut, etc etc .....
BUT all these things can be cancelled, or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

So, the "evidence" is not worth the paper it's written (or printed) on.

It's the total strength of your full application that will decide on the visa, not on the £8 per head or £50 per head
wedding breakfast menu !

All s.

[Arthur Little]

... or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

John Bull printing sets ... ? I used to have one of THEM as a child! Did you know that there used to be a satirical magazine of the same name? Can't quite remember when it went out of publication, though ...

OOps ... I digress

[joebloggs]

.... your comments & thoughts are ALWAYS appreciated, but on this one I think you should bow out gracefully
and leave it to the people who've ACTUALLY gone down the Fiancee route.

Yes, you are correct... the application form does say "will require to provide EVIDENCE of their intention to marry",
but this is a misnomer.

It is a Catch-22 situation..... you cannot do anything OFFICIAL until your lady arrives here.
Yes, you could book a hall, pre-book the Archbishop of Canterbury, order a cake, arrange to get your hair cut, etc etc .....
BUT all these things can be cancelled, or even better, set up by you on your John Bull printing set !

So, the "evidence" is not worth the paper it's written (or printed) on.

It's the total strength of your full application that will decide on the visa, not on the £8 per head or £50 per head
wedding breakfast menu !

just for the fun of it..

from the refusals guidance...

2. LEAVE TO ENTER AS A FIANCÉ(E) OR PROPOSED CIVIL PARTNER OF A PERSON SETTLED IN THE UNITED KINGDOM
The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner are contained in Paragraph 289A and 290 of HC 395 as amended by HC 538 and HC 582 and must be referred to when reading the following advice.
2.1. Key points
The main points on which the immigration officer needs to be satisfied are that:
2
November 08 CH8 SECT3 – FIANCE(E)S & PROPOSED CIVIL PARTNERS
- the passenger holds a valid entry clearance as the fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner of a person settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted at the same occasion for settlement; and
-
there is no reason to believe that false representations were made in order to obtain the entry clearance or that circumstances have changed since its issue


firstly i would always send as much relevant information/evidence you have if your applying for any sort of visa. people have been refused for not sending what evidence they were asked for or incomplete evidence.

i don't advise anyone to send less evidence than they should, i minimise any risks, your paying £500+ and waiting months, so sure, you maybe lucky and get your visa, but i don't deal in luck, just the facts.

i know many people who have sent evidence of their proposed wedding, sure you can say , you can cancel this and that, but at least your intentions are there, and from the refusal you can see (b) false representations were made or change of circumstances, for me if you don't supply some evidence of your intended wedding, then youre increasing your risk of refusal, because you done nothing about your proposed wedding, what size that risk is who knows.

also i can tell you most if not everyone on here, did supply some sort of evidence of their proposed wedding, and they all, but maybe one didn't get their visa, i don't remember anyone not sending any evidence at all of their proposed wedding ?? thou i maybe wrong, any more takers on this ???

can you tell me anyone who has been refused for sending evidence of their proposed wedding?. can i tell you who hasn't been refused for not sending some sort of evidence, no i can't because i think everyone did, the embassy do random checks, i know of one person at least on here, where the embassy contacted the person who was suppose to be making their wedding cake ( i think it was ady ?? ) and when they failed to, and that was one of the reasons for refusing the visa, thou i think it was overturned on appeal.

and as for getting your visa in 4wks and 2 days, good for you, but how long you wait is determined by luck and how busy the embassy is. that's why everyone has been waiting at least 6wks for a visa.