Unfortunately - this reminds me of some of those past religious debates where everybody got his own truth and is unable to admit that other side might get a bit of truth as well....
Bystander - personally I don't know what your problem is but whatever it is there is no need to slander others who have another opinion than you have and mark them as "**ssy whipped men" (btw - do you know any other phrase? as this one appears in your every single post) and tar them all with the same brush - everybody has his own personal reasons why to be or not at birth of their own kids...
If you want to stay in the pub with your macho friends, drink and have a cigar why not. Others might want to be somewhere else and do something else than you want to.
But that doesn't make them any less "manly" than you might think....
