Conferences

[aromulus]

There's lots of life in a tramps vest as well, but not the kind of life we would want for ourselves. Their all wearing their Cameron "Caring Conservatism" masks at the moment but underneath they're just the same old bunch that took from the poor and gave to the rich in the 80's and 90's and when they get into government they'll do exactly the same again.

As the saying goes, better the devil you know. All we really know about the tories is what they did in the 80s and 90s. In those days they positively encouraged greed and de-regulated everything. Unfortunately the labour government didn't have the balls to re-instate some of those financial constraints and look where it has got us now. The only thing the tories did do that was good for the UK was to control the might of the trade unions.

I firmly believe that under the Cameron mask that they're all hiding behind, they still believe as Maggie did that there is no such thing as society, only individuals....... and now they rant about broken Britain when it was their policies in the eighties that started the breakdown of society as we had known it in the past.

Our current unemployment was caused by a worldwide recession brought about by the credit crunch which was in turn brought about by greedy bankers selling worthless fluff to each other just to make huge bonuses for themselves. The mass unemployment of the eighties was caused by conservative strict monetarist policies and was accepted by them as a price worth paying......... as long as it wasn't their people (the rich) who were paying it.

Iain.

Even though they say we must cut public spending, they're still sticking to their promise to abolish inheritance tax. I do believe that inheritance tax, because of house price inflation is affecting many people that the original tax was not aimed at and in the south east especially mr or mrs average. But this throwing the baby out with the bathwater approach is not the answer and only means that mr or mrs average will have to pay more in other ways just so that the super rich (those who the tax was originally aimed at) can pass on all of their wealth to their probably already wealthy offspring..... and the rich get richer and the poor and the average get poorer....... same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, with a tory government.

Iain.

Who was it that encouraged able bodied but somehwat feckless people to move on to incapacity benefit to make the unemployment figures look better, the tories of course.

By gum lad.....

Sound like "Red Robbo" and Scargill, all rolled into one.....

The country and its people have been stitched up by Labour and the unions from day one, and although you can see it, you will not admit it.

[Scouse]

By gum lad.....

Sound like "Red Robbo" and Scargill, all rolled into one.....

The country and its people have been stitched up by Labour and the unions from day one, and although you can see it, you will not admit it.

Stitched up by the unions? When did they start passing legislation? They have never been over powerful and are organised from the top down by careerists who want to get pally with Labour in the hope of being given a cushy well paid part time job or a seat in the lords.

I don't support any party but as a former union activist (and full time official) if I had a penny for every time I heard 'we can't control the membership' I would be a rich man.

As for the Tories, any working person earning less than about £70,000 pa is a fool if they think the tories are their friends. They propose public spending cuts but not getting the money back from the finance industry who got us in to this mess and then wanted us to bail them out. I wonder why that is, perhaps because there are many tories on the banks boards and they don't want toupset ther friends. This is where most of the national debt is from.

Before you say Labour just look after the unions, if that was the case why did they not repeal all the anti trade union law introduced by the tories.

[IainBusby]

By gum lad.....

Sound like "Red Robbo" and Scargill, all rolled into one.....

The country and its people have been stitched up by Labour and the unions from day one, and although you can see it, you will not admit it.

With respect Dom, I'm definately no Red Robbo or a Scargill, in fact I actually voted for Margaret Thatcher in 1979 because I was concerned about the trade unions holding the country to ransom. I am at heart neither a tory or a labour supporter because as I see it, the overall policies of both parties have flaws. But from past experience I don't believe the tories are capable of governing in the interests of all of the people and they and will, if elected, pander to the extreme right wingers in their midst and structure the tax and benefits system in the UK to please only those they see as their natural true blue tory supporters.

The only reason I would choose the labour party over the conservatives is because their leanings are not as extreme as the conservative party. If the labour party had been the opposite extreme of the tory party, then during the past 12 years they would have sqeezed the rich until the pips squeaked as one 60's or 70's labour politician once famously said he would like to do.

I think you ought to look at the tories very closely and decide whether your just a natural tory supporter who could never find flaws in anything they propose or if you're a free thinker and are prepared to question their policies and look at both sides of every issue before you make up your mind.

Iain.

[somebody]

With respect Dom, I'm definately no Red Robbo or a Scargill, in fact I actually voted for Margaret Thatcher in 1979 because I was concerned about the trade unions holding the country to ransom. I am at heart neither a tory or a labour supporter because as I see it, the overall policies of both parties have flaws. But from past experience I don't believe the tories are capable of governing in the interests of all of the people and they and will, if elected, pander to the extreme right wingers in their midst and structure the tax and benefits system in the UK to please only those they see as their natural true blue tory supporters.

The only reason I would choose the labour party over the conservatives is because their leanings are not as extreme as the conservative party. If the labour party had been the opposite extreme of the tory party, then during the past 12 years they would have sqeezed the rich until the pips squeaked as one 60's or 70's labour politician once famously said he would like to do.

I think you ought to look at the tories very closely and decide whether your just a natural tory supporter who could never find flaws in anything they propose or if you're a free thinker and are prepared to question their policies and look at both sides of every issue before you make up your mind.

Iain.

Im seeing shadows of blair with cameron already shadowy figures are said to be at play. In fact its like de ja vu of 96-97 to me.
Labour or Tory both need to be vanila to get in nowdays. Look at radical obama not much has really changed or be allowed to.

Of course right wingers with the tories may break out, but like the left wingers found they may get beaten down for the career poltical types who choose blue or red depending on who will get them furthest in their career.

Once in power they will like Labour want to stay there and stop any personalities (right or left wing) from having a point of view. Just like your Dennis Skinners were muffled and then shuffled off along with any others who did not toe the party line.

[Northerner]

My biggest problem with all political parties is how they like to further the nanny state!

If an MP stood up and declared free speech and human rights were the most important things on their agenda. I could forgive a tax policy or whatever...

[IainBusby]

Not my maths, a number of independents such as universities have come up with similar figures http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?...155&cat=44-0-0

Incapacity is an excellent benefit, but it has been allowed to abused and get out of hand. It needs to be renamed "I can't be doing any work benefit"

I wasn't disputing your maths with regard to unemployment or incapacity benefit claimants, it's just that you said labour had had 23 years to do something about it, but the've only been in power since 1997, which is only 12 years.

[KeithD]

I wasn't disputing your maths with regard to unemployment or incapacity benefit claimants, it's just that you said labour had had 23 years to do something about it, but the've only been in power since 1997, which is only 12 years.

That's not my maths, if I was that bad the bookies would be going on holiday with my money instead of the other way round .....I ended up changing the batteries in my keyboard yesterday as I eventually noticed it wasn't writing what I typed and had to go back and edit a number of posts. Bloody technology...give me an old typewriter and a pigeon

[KeithD]

Look at radical obama not much has really changed or be allowed to.

Erm.....a hell of a lot has changed over there if you follow the US news/press, but the UK media only cover the main initiatives like health reform, which is difficult in any country.

[somebody]

Erm.....a hell of a lot has changed over there if you follow the US news/press, but the UK media only cover the main initiatives like health reform, which is difficult in any country.

Yeah i do read american newfeeds and speak day to day with plenty of yanks from all over. Still draging his feet on some major issues i understand include camp guantanamo and it appears some are being bulit up i understand like bagram under his adminstration.

But however much he wishes change if its agasint what the corps want it wont happen it seems The people who tell me this are people who support him and frustrated for him.

[aromulus]

I think you ought to look at the tories very closely and decide whether your just a natural tory supporter who could never find flaws in anything they propose or if you're a free thinker and are prepared to question their policies and look at both sides of every issue before you make up your mind.

Iain.

First of all, I am not a British Citizen and as such I am not allowed to vote.
I consider myself an outsider looking in....
But an outsider with the right to criticize, a right earned by paying taxes, even if unjust, for over 35 years and a non-existent pension.....

During my time here,I have witnessed a once "Great" Britain slide down in status to just "Britain", and very soon, thanks to Labour, it will be just part of the US of Europe, a non entity.

Don't start me off.................

[IainBusby]

First of all, I am not a British Citizen and as such I am not allowed to vote.
I consider myself an outsider looking in....
But an outsider with the right to criticize, a right earned by paying taxes, even if unjust, for over 35 years and a non-existent pension.....

During my time here,I have witnessed a once "Great" Britain slide down in status to just "Britain", and very soon, thanks to Labour, it will be just part of the US of Europe, a non entity.

Don't start me off.................

It's just that everything you say about the labour party is bad and everything you say about the tories is good and politics is never that black and white. For once I would like you show real independance and say something bad about at least 1 or 2 of the tory policies. Even the majority of the card carrying members of the tory party and even their MP's don't agree with all of their policies and are prepared to say so....... in private.

[aromulus]

It's just that everything you say about the labour party is bad and everything you say about the tories is good and politics is never that black and white. For once I would like you show real independance and say something bad about at least 1 or 2 of the tory policies. Even the majority of the card carrying members of the tory party and even their MP's don't agree with all of their policies and are prepared to say so....... in private.

In the past, I had the fortune or not, of running a couple of businesses for an absentee landlord, and I had to make marketing decisions, which initially, to the staff seemed idiotic, and caused some rifts.
But in the end I was proved right, because I stuck to my guns, and everybody, apart from the people that chose to leave, made money and ended up better off in the process.
As far as I am aware, that model is still used, quite successfully, 21 years later.