A Surreal Future Awaits - a bit of stress

[HopeUK]

Hi Peeps!

You know, it’s almost as though my joining this forum has acted as a catalyst for turmoil in my relationship. Now I seem to be seeking some sense of perspective..

My gf was supposed to be getting in touch for a Facebook chat this weekend for, amongst other things, whatever it is that she has wanted to speak so importantly about. She emailed me to let me know that she couldn’t chat as arranged as she had errands to run (which I’m thinking are related to the end of this rainbow..) but said she’d get in touch ”tomorrow”. Come “tomorrow” I waited patiently for her, but with no show I thought to text her to let her know I was online (9am here, 5pm there) and hoping to hear from her soon! She got in touch a couple of hours later with a text reply saying that her parents are having a financial problem and she’s afraid she won’t be able to take her IELT (which if I recall rightly is coming up in March) - she wanted to cry. She said she wished I was there to comfort her and didn’t know where to turn for help or what was she going to do. I tried to encourage her to come online but she said that she couldn’t presently get online to talk and she was restless.. but she’d be coming on line in the morning (7am there, 11pm here) and if I was available we could perhaps talk, and that she misses me. I told her I’d be here for the chat, that I missed her too and not to worry, with reassurance that things will work out xxx.

At around this point I began to hear the bell-ringing of many a laboured and destroyed soul.. but I have to say my own personal judgment (impartial in this situation I hasten to add) thinks this still genuine. Her mom was in hospital recently which may explain their difficulties, and I don’t know anything of her parent’s working circumstances. She has never raised money issues before. Playing devil’s advocate for a moment , if this whole relationship WERE a scam it is a most patient and elaborate one. I would have thought that there are more than enough dating sites from which to choose to perform such duplicitous practices, and with far greater odds of success.

Bear with me in this next bit..

I think in my mind I have chosen to try and help her if the situation doesn’t resolve itself between now and April. Approaching this clinically, I would want to ask whether her exam can wait a bit longer (if there is a money issue then I don’t think there’d be much choice in the situation anyway?). It is true that I cannot afford to help her at the moment but I may be able to by the time we get together – from looking I’m guessing it would typically be costing around £100? If when we get together all is “good/real”, real problems are still there, and there really is a genuine love to nurture, then I will be more than happy to help out, as surely as though we were together as bf/gf here in the UK.

So, I appear to have a solution to my problem.. Why post all this? Assuming I have struck a good balance between compassion and wisdom, what I am seeking from other seasoned members here is some independent reassurance that I am not being overly suspicious, harsh or cruel. Any mortal man (or woman) will appreciate that the last thing I wish to do is hurt her – the Buddhist part of me wouldn’t want to hurt her even if she were ‘scamming’ – god knows unless she were really immoral there would be real reasons for her resorting to such desperate measures. What I’m afraid of here is whether my conclusions and chosen actions are equally as good? Do you believe she would understand my caution should she choose to openly ask me for help rather than just hinting the possibility, as it perhaps felt she was doing? I don’t wish to suggest openly to her that she might be pulling a scam - doing so might well cause irreparable damage by a possible misunderstood moment, but after all we haven’t met yet have we..!? Still, her Facebook account, friends, emails, chats and behaviour seem so real and genuine I feel really bad for not accepting her more at her word, or reading her text simply as a girl who is sad at facing the prospect of not being able to take her IELT, and in need of real help. I feel as though my self-preservation might inadvertently really be me using, and by mis-action, hurting her to protect myself.

Help..

[South-east boy]

I don't blame you for thinking this as with the stores that we hear, it's only natural to wonder if a similar thing is starting to happen. With Suzie the girl that I was in contact with, she had mentioned things like he had bad wisdom toothache, but couldn't afford to get it looked at, she needed a fancy dress for her works Xmas do, but couldn't afford a new one and that they had money worries after her Dad had died. Like you, I wasn't sure if she was hinting at me sending money or not, but after what I have read hear and many other places, I wasn't going to send her money before seeing her.

I did however send her & her family a large parcel for Xmas & her Birthday in December which did cost me a lot. Then after Xmas she went quiet and it eventually turned out that a Danish guy had gone to see her, stayed with her and she said that she is in love with him, has found the love of her life and will be getting married soon! So all the thought, effort and money (about £420 with the courier, customs & VAT and item value-I had no idea that I had sent so much or that the courier, customs & VAT would be so much) was completely wasted and I was left quite hurt.

Just because you didn't meet on a dating site, does not mean that she hasn't been on them or that she isn't thinking like some Filipinos that all people in the west are loaded as we earn so much more. Yes, we earn lots more, but the cost of living is a lot higher too.

If I was you, I'd let things run, see what she says, be cautious, don't send any money until after you see her and see that she is genuine/the right girl for you. Some guys on hear have offered money to their girl and they have refused to accept any, even though they might really need it. That's when you know that she is not after your money and the type of girl that you want. She might never ask and you could be worrying over nothing as well of course.

If you wish to read them, these are my threads about sending the parcel: http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=20825 and when I was worrying when I hadn't heard from her & what happened: http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=21444 (sorry that that thread is very long!). After her being a bit quiet and reasons not to speak, with what happened to me, I'd be a bit worried, but of course it could all be genuine- it's one of the problems/worries with LDR's!

[joebloggs]

seeing you haven't met yet, and even if you had met her there is a possibility that you could be scammed, so you should be cautious when you're asked for money

avoiding you for what ever reason could be a warning sign, thou maybe she doesn't have the money to go online ? helping to pay her moms hospital bill ?

yes ielts is expensive, probably the same price as the uk, over £100, which for many filipinos is 2wks pay.


you should go and see her asap, or help her this once and ask for a copy of the ielts cert, if she doesn't give it you, or ask for more cash

[joebloggs]

I did however send her & her family a large parcel for Xmas & her Birthday in December which did cost me a lot. Then after Xmas she went quiet and it eventually turned out that a Danish guy had gone to see her, stayed with her and she said that she is in love with him, has found the love of her life and will be getting married soon! So all the thought, effort and money (about £420 with the courier, customs & VAT and item value) was completely wasted and I was left quite hurt.

Some guts on hear have offered money to their girl and they have refused to accept any, even though they might really need it. That's when you know that she is not after your money and the type of girl that you want.

the Danish guy went to see her and south-east boy you didn't when you start a relationship you really have to go and see them asap, i was lucky, my misses told me if i didn't come by such a date dont come at all, dates pasted a few times and warnings if i didnt come dont come at all, and for what ever reason i couldn't/didn't go ( i went to see her nearly 2yrs after first chatting to her ).. delays and distance will only cause problems, so go and see her asap. that way you have a better idea where you both stand

i'm one of them guys who offered my misses alot of money without ever meeting her first (enough to pay her uni fees at medical school for a yr) she wouldn't take it, but after realising she would have to drop out of uni for a yr, she accepted the money, but then i got a letter off her mom telling me kindly to and she would get her thru uni at any cost, anyway it took me weeks to persuade her mom to take the money from me, but true things were never easy,she had to stay in the phils 2yrs after we married until she finished med school. but hey married 7yrs and still together

[pennybarry]

My niece paid arount 8,600 pesos for her IELTS. I sent her money and she said she passed and I can check her rating at British Council website in Manila. I said no need for me to check as long as you have no boyfriend.

You can check the IELTS schedule here.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/nov09-...test_dates.pdf
Ask her what date she is going to take her exam. They need to pay month before they take their exam.

[triple5]

It's always about the money Chances are she's not a scammer, but like a lot of filipinas she may be thinking she's hit the jackpot with you and she's expecting you to start coughing up now.

Like Joe, I sent money (wasnt a great ammount) before we met in person, but I was certain it was for a good cause and I could afford it. It worried me at the time I may have opened a can of worms and there'd be all sorts of requests coming. Luckily, so far none. That's the risk you take, if you start sending money it may start costing a fortune as other sob stories start flooding in.

Tell her your struggling to save for the flight over there and would rather save your money to visit her. Ask what would she rather have - you or the money

[South-east boy]

the Danish guy went to see her and south-east boy you didn't when you start a relationship you really have to go and see them asap, i was lucky, my misses told me if i didn't come by such a date dont come at all, dates pasted a few times and warnings if i didnt come dont come at all, and for what ever reason i couldn't/didn't go ( i went to see her nearly 2yrs after first chatting to her ).. delays and distance will only cause problems, so go and see her asap. that way you have a better idea where you both stand

As I have said before, she never asked, she was sometimes busy so couldn't send emails or be on the phone etc, she said that she wasn't on dating sites, never said that she was desperate to get married and I never lied to her about my financial situation, so I thought that she was ok with how things were. How was I to know? I also thought I'd need to stay in a hotel, so would need even more money, so I thought that the trip was even further away. The Danish guy stayed with her and her family. If she had given me the time that your lady did I would have seen her if things were going well between us (I was planning to this year), but she only gave me a few months before she went for the Danish stranger. She also never said to me when I said about the presents and asked for make-up "don't spend it on presents, spend it on coming to see me". If she had said these things and also found more time to contact me (it's a bit hard when you send emails and texts, but don't get many replies), then I could have done it and felt more inclined to, although money would have been tight. You hear of lots of couples however busy they are making time so they can chat by going to bed later or earlier etc and I just didn't get a strong enough feeling from her to make me see her. I'm not going to fly half way around the world and spend that money unless they feel strong enough for me and I with them.

If it was true and that she hadn't seen or had contact with the Danish guy beforehand, then this is the 2nd time that she has/is getting engaged at the first time of meeting someone that she has had no prior contact with. How can you know a prior total stranger well enough to get married after just a few fays of seeing them? Anyone can easily put on a false front for a few days, you need time to really know each other-some time in person, but also by email and phone as if they are genuine, you do get to know someone that way too.

[HopeUK]

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter friends!

My main worry is just feeling bad in the face of what in all likelihood does feel like a genuine situation - I expect later down the line I'd be thanking my conscience for being cautious if it does all go t%ts up, but for the moment I'm going with something like your line on this I think SouthEastBoy. Wait and see. I take your point that Facebook isn't "immune" or that she doesn't have a possible impression of westerners as more wealthy, but she is aware that it has been a fiscal stretch for me to visit her, so she must surely be at least slightly aware that I'm likely not loaded (and also perhaps sees that my heart is therefore genuine, and seeking the "real thing" - I've told her already that I'm not after a "disrespectful holiday fling" - none of this aspect could have been made clearer to her).

Joe, point taken on visiting ASAP. I felt like this when we stated a mutual interest in getting together - I fully expected it to be more like October 2010 or even April 2011 before we could make it happen but I made every effort to make it as early as I could, and I'm going on first week of April - as sure a sign of intent and genuine commitment from me towards the friendship as I could muster, beyond mere words (more advice from the forum which I took to heart, about cultural matters of talk being considered cheap and Filipino's appreciating actions to back words up). I have to take her word for it, but when we were discussing our relationship status in a past email she told me that she had been "boyfriend"-less for three years to date and that she was waiting for the right person. She is also aware from my words that she is the only woman I am courting (this is true, incidentally). As I say, the plan is to get together with her to provide a way for us both to prove our relationship in what I like to call the "real world".

For me here, today, it's all about me trying to be comfortable with my own stance in the face of questions, which she maybe can't provide a good enough answer to without body language and eye contact to back it up. She shouldn't have any doubts as to my own integrity - I've expressed both undying respect and a willingness to meet her parents.

I reiterate again that she hasn't actually asked for anything - it's just me "seeing" a perceived implication, and she hasn't had a "shopping list" of things she would like in any past conversation either.

[South-east boy]

It's always about the money Chances are she's not a scammer, but like a lot of filipinas she may be thinking she's hit the jackpot with you and she's expecting you to start coughing up now.

Tell her your struggling to save for the flight over there and would rather save your money to visit her. Ask what would she rather have - you or the money

Good point! This is what I should have said and done, then if what happened, happened (and I hadn't booked the flight yet, but was still saving for the trip), then I could have spent it/had it ready to see someone else who really did want me.

[HopeUK]

Penny, thanks for the test dates site - if nothing else, that will be helpful for helping her reschedule the test if all is okay and I go ahead and help out.

[HopeUK]

In the interests of getting to see her ASAP I have already made the committment to the holiday - Don't get me wrong, I'll still feel hung, drawn and quartered if it all goes pear-shaped but I can console myself with my first ever solo holiday, a bit of an adventure and (assuming it goes okay) the personal confidence I need to know that I can go anywhere and really do it, with only funds stopping me!

Still, with all this, do you think my waiting until we meet before helping (assuming she's still in need by then) is a reasonable compromise between potentially putting her through difficult anxiety and being on the safe side for myself?

[joebloggs]

I reiterate again that she hasn't actually asked for anything - it's just me "seeing" a perceived implication, and she hasn't had a "shopping list" of things she would like in any past conversation either.

maybe she's waiting to see if you offer to help ?

i'm just warning you, not to make the mistakes i made, thinking she will wait forever for you to come and see her she may well think you're never going to come and see her, and so she'll move on to the next guy, who does go and see her..

south east boy, but you spent £400+ sending her stuff, you could have bought an air-ticket for nearly that.. but many of us have done the same

yes most are not scammers, but money is a problem to many Filipinos, and she could be telling the truth about the elits and her parents finances, so she could tell a white lie to get money from you to help her parents, or even be pressured by them to see if she can get money from you, but you know i would give her the benefit of the doubt unless you have evidence of her scamming..

i could have accused my misses many times thru the years , but each time i gave her the benefit of the doubt and said nothing, and as far as i can tell, she always told the truth.

[triple5]

Whereabouts is she and how long you going for? I always go with the intention of having a great holiday regardless of how things pan out with the lady in question. You just never know, as cool as things may seem online or on the phone theres no substitute for face to face chat. Your doing the right thing getting out there asap Sooner you really start getting to know each other the better. Problem is when you do start getting close it's time to come home again

[joebloggs]

Still, with all this, do you think my waiting until we meet before helping (assuming she's still in need by then) is a reasonable compromise between potentially putting her through difficult anxiety and being on the safe side for myself?

it depends also what she thinks
she needs alot of time to prepare for the exam, its not easy for some filipinos to pass first time, and i think she needs a average of 6 or 7 for a nurse to pass.
and some struggle of the speech side of the test.

if it doesn't work out with you and your gal, you can still have a great time, move on and go and meet other filipino ladies

[HopeUK]

hmm..

Joe - I am actually going and she does know I'm on my way - arriving there April 2nd. I quote myself in a different context from earler, to say that unless she is "really immoral" there hopefully isn't anyone for her to move on to..

Triple5 - She's based in Manila, family in Legazpi City, and I'm visiting her ostensibly for two weeks (I might have plumped for Feb but we would have only had the one week if I had, so April felt like a compromise for the better!)

[HopeUK]

The coming home part is something I've been getting counselling for from another friend who is married to a Japanese lady and has walked a similar path.. He told me about his being "distraught" - it's an irony that I'm committed to a path of significant pain either way..

[South-east boy]

south east boy, but you spent £400+ sending her stuff, you could have bought an air-ticket for nearly that.. but many of us have done the same

Oh yes, I know, I even said that to her and it's what I find so frustrating. As I bought the bits now and again, I didn't notice how much I had spent until I had to add up the value for the courier company/customs/VAT people, the courier came to more than I thought and I didn't know about the customs/VAT charge of £82 which I had to pay as Suzie couldn't. I think I must have spent over £600 on her what with phonecards, text loads, extra mobile phone etc, etc. She did ok as she got a guy and all the gifts from me, where I ended with nothing and the thought that all the effort/the thought etc seemed to mean nothing to her.

[joebloggs]

hey don't blame yourself it's easily done, I've sent my misses alot more than that b4 i met her

as for the vat/customs last jan we sent 2 large boxes to the phils, and didn't get asked to pay vat/custom


there are many decent beautiful filipinas out there, I've met many of them, you just need to find one of your own

don't give up

[Sim11UK]

In the interests of getting to see her ASAP I have already made the committment to the holiday - Don't get me wrong, I'll still feel hung, drawn and quartered if it all goes pear-shaped but I can console myself with my first ever solo holiday, a bit of an adventure and (assuming it goes okay) the personal confidence I need to know that I can go anywhere and really do it, with only funds stopping me!

Still, with all this, do you think my waiting until we meet before helping (assuming she's still in need by then) is a reasonable compromise between potentially putting her through difficult anxiety and being on the safe side for myself?

I think your above paragraph, is the best way, to conduct your relationship. Seems to me to be the sensible route, to take, regarding money.

It's good you've got your trip booked, we all face the uncertainty, of how we will get on in person.
Another thing often overlooked, is how we actually react to being in the Philippines. For some people, for whatever reason, it may just not be for them. Getting over there earlyish, can help to iron a lot of these problems out & help to build the basis of a good relationship.

[HopeUK]

Exactly Sim11UK - though reconsidering the situation it may be that I'm making a very "western" mountain out of a molehill - on the optimistic side it's not inconceivable that it may be that she is feeling a little Filipino pride with the financial problems and wanting to tell me about it but without asking.. She might already be worrying about how I will perceive her talking about it, afraid that I'm going to run, fearing her to be pulling a scam!??

I have been quite conscious of the fact that to get together ASAP is a very good way of starting off - it shows a positive committment to the friendship, let's her know that I am prepared to put what is necessary into the two of us and, as you say, clears matters up from the outset. A good relationship is where it's at! I could write a whole lot more and expand this topic beyond all recognition with the philisophical chat I've been having with a real world friend this evening (might start a new thread on the matter if it comes to a conclusion!) - As an aside I was reading your escapades with the Filipina/boyfriend/overbearing family/arranged marriage worry before this thread started.. I haven't finished reading it yet, so forgive me if it is harmfully irrelevant to bring it up but it just goes to show that it is universally so easy to pick up a stick and beat yourself with it in error (or not beat yourself when you should!).. LDR's eh?

[Sim11UK]

As an aside I was reading your escapades with the Filipina/boyfriend/overbearing family/arranged marriage worry before this thread started.. I haven't finished reading it yet, so forgive me if it is harmfully irrelevant to bring it up but it just goes to show that it is universally so easy to pick up a stick and beat yourself with it in error (or not beat yourself when you should!).. LDR's eh?

It's all relevant these LDR's can be so hard, as you are starting to find out for yourself. Unfortunately, it's all part of it. I wouldn't think there is anyone here, who could say it was all plain sailing & an easy ride.

[HopeUK]

This is true - but as I have just been discussing in my "real world" conversation, one of the matters which has arisen has been how more "mature" you might consider LDR's to be. There is the downside, the doubt, the frustrations, the misunderstandings, (the latter two points particularly relevant to cross-cultural LDR's), but the upside is that it forces communication to a point where even if it isn't initially amazingly deep, it will still likely reveal more about each person than a typical chat in a club or bar, and that's just before the new "couple" instantly throw themselves at each other in the name of sexual fulfilment! LDR's force the pace to be a little slower to say the least.. and to me that's a GOOD thing. I'm not afraid to look to myself (peel back the layers as Peter Gabriel once implied), and realise that the reason I am fretting so much over my relationship with my filipina is because the pace has forced me to look deeper and try harder - I always have been a deep person and never a one night stand kind of guy anyway (that eastern side to me which I mentioned in my introduction I suspect..) but other past relationships have all been noticeably quicker paced than the present one,which is my first cross-cultural dating experience. In spite of the up's and down's I have to admit, at the core I have never felt anything as amazing.

[HopeUK]

JacksonAlan.. an interesting dilemma indeed - I can only think from ALL OF THIS, that perhaps the best method of approaching all these concerns may be to simply try and focus the heart of the discussions we have with our prospective partners above money somehow. It seems that we ALL share these money worries - Filipino concepts of western wages, and the reality that it is all actually relative, are pointed out time and again across numerous forums - and there ARE real money worries where the Philippines are concerned, it's true.. but surely the prime reason for us being here is love - the only, true motivator. Both Filipino and western people each have their own issues - but for money to become empowered enough to break up a fledgling relationship is plain wrong. I suppose both parties have a responsibility to ensure that money doesn't become the "dutch elm disease" of the sprouting relationship, any more than you might say tolerate the drunk at the bar repeatedly trying to pull your girlfriend, in front of your own face. As always it seems to be a matter of good communication - how that matter is brought up and talked about from a distance without either party getting upset.. that's the real trick I suspect. Discuss..

[joebloggs]

I've followed this thread with interest and I'm not about to offer more advice, rather to add my own story, because I'm in the situation of having paid my girlfriend's nursing study fees and subsistence for several months since we "met" online. She hopes to graduate in nursing this April, but she's cost me so much that I now can't afford to fly out for the graduation. Apparently the graduation ceremony itself is to cost 10,000 pesos, in addition to the monthly fee of 4000 pesos, then the licensure examination will cost 15,000 pesos. Several people (on the forum and outside) have warned about the perils of sending money to someone I have yet to meet, and raised the possibility that she is a scammer, although I have no proof of this.

i've been in the same situation Alan, but i asked her for receipts, my misses was only starting her second year at med school so your lucky that your g/f finishes in April , i had to support my misses for the next 5yrs after that , yes those fees and more are probably right for a nurse..

the 15,000php for the license exam must be wrong, i think my misses paid only a few 100php !!!.

[joebloggs]

Alan

i think the graduation ceremony (which i went to) my misses paid about 1,000php for each person attending, the prc exam fee as i've said, my misses thinks she paid only a few 100php, the 4,000php fee could be right..


get the receipts Alan

[Arthur Little]

[I][SIZE="3"]Several people (on the forum and outside) have warned about the perils of sending money to someone I have yet to meet, and raised the possibility that she is a scammer, although I have no proof of this.

I really HATE asking this Alan ... but have you any proof she's NOT [a scammer]?

[triple5]

but she's cost me so much that I now can't afford to fly out for the graduation.

It's been money that I could afford

Same as Arthur, don't really like to ask, but it seems you have some issues there with what you're paying out. You know you can pull the plug at any time, whether you can afford it or not.

Apologies to HopeUK, hope it doesn't seem like your thread's getting derailed here.

[joebloggs]

Sorry Joe, I had just replied to your earlier post. The 4,000 php is every month, the 10,000 is for the venue, "dress/toga" (the words she used), and "other graduation needs" ; over and above food (4000php), travelling, apartment rent(5000php), water, electricity, internet access, of about 18000php. As I said, that might not be outrageous for a romantic relationship in the UK, but for someone I have yet to meet ...

well the figures my misses gave me are from 5yrs ago, so it will be a bit more than the ones i've stated. but i wouldn't have thought much more..

yes 4,000 a month fees could be right, as we paid 3,000+ for my misses cousin,

10,000php just for then venue ? like i said my wife paid no where near that.

tarveling,rent,water,elecy,inet = 18k ?


my misses has just found her PRC exam fee, in 2005 the fee was 600php, the registration fee was 600php and a yearly fee of 450php

you know the pass rate for nursing board exam is about 40% !.

ask for receipts if your suspicious Alan.

having said that PRC registration is only about 600php, unlike the £415 it is for the gmc , i'm off to the gmc in Manchester to give them my wifes intern-ship cert, cgs cert, its been one hell of a long journey Alan, so be prepared for a possible bumpy ride

[Sim11UK]

Sorry Joe, I had just replied to your earlier post. The 4,000 php is every month, the 10,000 is for the venue, "dress/toga" (the words she used), and "other graduation needs" ; over and above food (4000php), travelling, apartment rent(5000php), water, electricity, internet access, of about 18000php. As I said, that might not be outrageous for a romantic relationship in the UK, but for someone I have yet to meet ...

Alan this is quite troubling to read?
You've sort of got yourself into a mess, you should never have got into.
I'm not sure of some of the above figures, travelling electricity etc.? Do you mean every month???

Once you start giving, it becomes impossible to stop, which in turn becomes a vicious circle, as you now struggle, to afford a trip out there.

You don't owe anybody anything, at least until you have met.

[justchecking]

I'm slightly unclear, but 18000php living costs plus fees - I lived in the philippines with my husband and daughter and usually had one or two family members to feed at least twice a day, and my monthly living costs (no internet though) were around 18-20php - this may not seem outrageous by your standards, but its pretty good living for a single person in the philippines