Apple to unveil new product

[walesrob]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480063.stm

So, any guesses what it could be? i-Toilet? i-TV? i-?

[aromulus]

Exactly as every Apple product on the market already....

Absolutely nothing of use for me.

[KeithD]

It's been known for months it's a Tablet. Kind of a laptop with just a touch screen. Does exactly the same as a Netbook, but costs 3X more, but as usual the muppets who 'love' Apple will buy it

[Arthur Little]

But not being a 'techno-geek' ... it's all "G(r)eek" to me ... unless, of course, it happens to be a new brand of CIDER apple!

[maria_and_matt]

It's been known for months it's a Tablet. Kind of a laptop with just a touch screen. Does exactly the same as a Netbook, but costs 3X more, but as usual the muppets who 'love' Apple will buy it

i love apple but i am not a muppet

[walesrob]

Its a giant I-pod! Called an I-pad

[maldita]

I just have to laugh at this.

[Arthur Little]

I just have to laugh at this.

Haha ... me too ... being a self-confessed 'luddite'! :lol2:

[KeithD]

It doesn't even multi-task That's as bad as cut'n'paste not appearing till V3 of the Iphone ... and people buy these low tech over-hyped products

[somebody]

It doesn't even multi-task That's as bad as cut'n'paste not appearing till V3 of the Iphone ... and people buy these low tech over-hyped products

As im sure your aware the device could multi task and for some functions it does but the user has no say. Doesn't have Flash so many websites will not be shown fully or fully functioning.

Personally I would prefer to choose what I want running and play with the files on the system. But many want a simple device which does what it says on the tin and rarely crashes.

[somebody]

http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-f...-secret-tablet


N900 for now but this in the near future keep your Ipad

[KeithD]

But many want a simple device which does what it says on the tin and rarely crashes.

That'll be my top spec Vista laptop then, never crashed yet, and easily runs over 50 web pages and programs at the same time

[complex]

That'll be my top spec Vista laptop then, never crashed yet, and easily runs over 50 web pages and programs at the same time

Thats funny as my Laptop which isnt even the top of the range Mac has 130 pages open, and usually between 8-20 apps at any one time and never crashes!

Its up to people to choose what they like and after using in both work and home Macs for around 20 years I know what I prefer.

I predict the iPad will be the first tablet PC to gain mass adoption unlike all the failed windows tablets that have been coming out since 2001.

[joebloggs]

apples share of the PC market is what less than 10%, so i don't know how it will gain mass adoption

apple are just trying something others have already done

X60 from 2yrs ago ..

[KeithD]

Thats funny as my Laptop which isnt even the top of the range Mac has 130 pages open, and usually between 8-20 apps at any one time and never crashes!

Due to the processor limitations in a Mac they don't run the betting bots I use as they can't process the info quick enough with other apps running like the TV tuner, excel bot conversions, all tested on the latest Mac, and all they do is stutter, no use for making money

[walesrob]

Its up to people to choose what they like and after using in both work and home Macs for around 20 years I know what I prefer.

Having used Mac, Ubuntu and 2 other flavours of Linux, I'll always come back to windows. Mac and Linux for me are alien OS's and require a steep learning curve involving a lot of time and patience. Windows, I can troubleshoot easily, if I can't, a google search usually does the trick.

I predict the iPad will be the first tablet PC to gain mass adoption unlike all the failed windows tablets that have been coming out since 2001.

Count me out as my laptop does the job well, I see no useful purpose for an I-pad. I refuse to pray (or pay) to the Church of Apple.

[raynaputi]

a blown up iPod Touch! I never really got interested with Apple's products..costs too much but lacks most of the things i want..just look at iPhone..one example of disappointment..

[South-east boy]

a blown up iPod Touch! I never really got interested with Apple's products..costs too much but lacks most of the things i want..just look at iPhone..one example of disappointment..

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

[Dedworth]

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

I thought the big downsides were supposed to be sealed in battery and SIM cards. Might be wrong.

I've never bought anything Apple as I their products to be both overhyped and overpriced.

They tried and failed before with the long forgotten Apple Newton

[raynaputi]

What's disappointing with the iPhone?! What more do you want in a phone?! The only things that are not so good with my 3GS one are the camera and battery life, but with the battery, that's probably as I use the Internet on it so much whereas in my old Nokia N95 it was a lot harder to use/even painful. The iPhone is like an entertainment centre with so many handy apps for nearly anything you want. It's not one of the biggest selling phones for no reason!

Well bluetooth is not compatible with the other's..cant replace the batteries and u have to go to their service center to replace it..apps u can install must be connected with Apple (well unless u jailbreak it)..memory not expandable..

[complex]

I know at least 7 friends now with iPhones all more than happy with them, admittedly if your used to the Nokias and other phones that all copy the same functionality and then apples leaves something out that you think should be standard then most people seem to feel cheated, but if you use an iPhone for any period of time I reckon you would never wont to move back to the old style interfaces. my previous phone a Sony K800 now feels so old, but still that is a very well specs good working phone.
As for saying the bluetooth in iphone isn't compatible thats wrong, apple just limits the use of it, which is a bit annoying the one time someone asked me to send them something over bluetooth. My battery is still working fine, I will probably upgrade to a new model as my contact is already out so I doubt I'll be replacing a battery. Apps come from apple which isnt a problem, tell me what apps you want to run that the app store hasn't got? the fact the app store has been so successful is Apple makes it so easy to buy applications, now Microsoft Google and all the other makers are copying Apple again. So if the people here think apple doesn't do anything right that they want, the rest of the industry must be thinking differently!!

[sars_notd_virus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480063.stm

Nothing exciting....I still wont trade my gadgets lol

[somebody]

Apple if you want neat and tidy, not worried about certain functions having a few years behind the latest specs and not that bothered to fiddle under the bonnet. But not for many who do want to push the limits and fiddle..

That is not an insult like Mr admin po boss lord of Wales says. Many people want simplicty and ease of use. You can pick up an apple and get it working in mintues. But from personal experience without hacking them they are to limited for what I want and require.

I dont like the lack of swapable battery but others like it as thats why its thinner and more tidy looking than many devices.

I dont like the restrictions to what software legally (for those that want to argue about this read the T and C's you agree to when using an Iphone) I can use on my Device, that the software has to be approved for me to use.

But I can see some people like to have this censorship to ensure the programs will work with their device. But having read how some Technically perfectly ok programs are not allowed to be distributed and reading between the lines because its not want apple want commercially does worry me as its a business model others are looking at What will happen to innovation if we only have what the corps want us to have

Companies even have to have updates small or big approved for software on apple store I belive which again some people will be happy with and can wait while others will not like.

Many Software applications and Hardware add ons for devices for many IT related products were indepently created and may have been rivals to the oem's products but in the end superceded these.

I also am happy to mutli task I know that means the device is running at a degree where it might crash if i have a mixture of twenty odd applications and browser windows open in my N900. It may mean the battery runs out a tad quicker but im ok with that. it happens rarely and often if you use your nous its amazing how much a smartphone can acheive if set up correctly.

At least on my Device I can choose if I want to use Flash or not use flash. Not be told sorry I Mr Jobs dont like Flash ( I understand the reasons) and you will not have the option to use. This has meant often the Wife with her Itouch and others with Iphone have asked to borrow my phone so they can use a site which depends on Flash

The Wife has on her itouch discovered she is not allowed by apple to perform more than one task at at a time in many situations. But she can on those evill devices which allow multitasking
For her to browse the web, check email, check twitter, check her photos, and play her music things all go pear shape it appears. Now maybe its possible but even with the famous Apple usabilty she has found she can do less at a time..

I totally see the point of apple products most people just want a pc that works will never fiddle with its software or hardware in depth and the same with their phone.

For me its like the Car market many people dont want to fiddle with their car and just accept what they are given but many like to fiddle or improve so horses for courses

Im Happy Apple have these products for people who have been crying out for Smartphones which are easy to use but I want the choice we have at present to stay and dont want to only to be able to pick between locked down systems.

Which with the new win mob 7 and Apple looks like the "Walled Garden" may be a big part of the future

[complex]

Apple if you want neat and tidy, not worried about certain functions having a few years behind the latest specs and not that bothered to fiddle under the bonnet. But not for many who do want to push the limits and fiddle..

That is not an insult like Mr admin po boss lord of Wales says. Many people want simplicty and ease of use. You can pick up an apple and get it working in mintues. But from personal experience without hacking them they are to limited for what I want and require.

I dont like the lack of swapable battery but others like it as thats why its thinner and more tidy looking than many devices.

I dont like the restrictions to what software legally (for those that want to argue about this read the T and C's you agree to when using an Iphone) I can use on my Device, that the software has to be approved for me to use.

But I can see some people like to have this censorship to ensure the programs will work with their device. But having read how some Technically perfectly ok programs are not allowed to be distributed and reading between the lines because its not want apple want commercially does worry me as its a business model others are looking at What will happen to innovation if we only have what the corps want us to have

Companies even have to have updates small or big approved for software on apple store I belive which again some people will be happy with and can wait while others will not like.

Many Software applications and Hardware add ons for devices for many IT related products were indepently created and may have been rivals to the oem's products but in the end superceded these.

I also am happy to mutli task I know that means the device is running at a degree where it might crash if i have a mixture of twenty odd applications and browser windows open in my N900. It may mean the battery runs out a tad quicker but im ok with that. it happens rarely and often if you use your nous its amazing how much a smartphone can acheive if set up correctly.

At least on my Device I can choose if I want to use Flash or not use flash. Not be told sorry I Mr Jobs dont like Flash ( I understand the reasons) and you will not have the option to use. This has meant often the Wife with her Itouch and others with Iphone have asked to borrow my phone so they can use a site which depends on Flash

The Wife has on her itouch discovered she is not allowed by apple to perform more than one task at at a time in many situations. But she can on those evill devices which allow multitasking
For her to browse the web, check email, check twitter, check her photos, and play her music things all go pear shape it appears. Now maybe its possible but even with the famous Apple usabilty she has found she can do less at a time..

I totally see the point of apple products most people just want a pc that works will never fiddle with its software or hardware in depth and the same with their phone.

For me its like the Car market many people dont want to fiddle with their car and just accept what they are given but many like to fiddle or improve so horses for courses

Im Happy Apple have these products for people who have been crying out for Smartphones which are easy to use but I want the choice we have at present to stay and dont want to only to be able to pick between locked down systems.

Which with the new win mob 7 and Apple looks like the "Walled Garden" may be a big part of the future

Finally a level headed person, even if your on the other side of the fence I can understand your reasons for not wanting an iPhone and thats your choice, unlike others that simply bash the iPhone and Apple in general out of ignorance, I would dispute the "you can't email and browse web etc", mail checks periodically in the back ground all the time and safari as all Apple's main apps multi task to a certain extend, but in most cases whats the use of Multi tasking on a device with a screen smaller than ones hand, you cant view mail and a web page at the same time, multi tasking on a phone is much over hyped, most of the apps on an iPhone quit and load instantly, making switching apps not much longer than if they were already open, and most if not all save there status on quitting so your not losing anything. the only time I can see an argument for multi tasking is when someone wants to stream music and work in another app, or some similar activity.

[somebody]

Finally a level headed person, even if your on the other side of the fence I can understand your reasons for not wanting an iPhone and thats your choice, unlike others that simply bash the iPhone and Apple in general out of ignorance, I would dispute the "you can't email and browse web etc", mail checks periodically in the back ground all the time and safari as all Apple's main apps multi task to a certain extend, but in most cases whats the use of Multi tasking on a device with a screen smaller than ones hand, you cant view mail and a web page at the same time, multi tasking on a phone is much over hyped, most of the apps on an iPhone quit and load instantly, making switching apps not much longer than if they were already open, and most if not all save there status on quitting so your not losing anything. the only time I can see an argument for multi tasking is when someone wants to stream music and work in another app, or some similar activity.

I cant remeber all the applications the missus was trying to use but she simply wanted to listen to music and use a third party application and it simply would not let her. While like you say Apple software (created or suplied at the least) will be allowed to Multitask but third party applications on the whole are not it seems from my limited knowledge of the devices.
But it means its a stable OS.

But I would prefer to have web pages working away (Dont forget the cloud even apple want us working up their soon), my emails doing their stuff (downloading/uploading an attachment in the background), My word program spellchecking or find n replacing in the background as I nip over to my music player, while I also check my Pod cast downloads. While I fiddle with my Camera settings and use the photo editor which can process the photgraph while i do something else rather than watch an eggtimer

But not everybody is that ott with their multitasking and happy to wait.

I can think of several applications I need running in the background and even non Techy people do on other phones. It will be intresting if they dare go down the multitask with the next version

I have to say while i admire the making devices which even the least techy person can use and making them sleek and stylish. I have met some people I respect who like the simpleness of the Iphone and they are people who love comand lines and tinkering etc

Im not keen on the way the company is heading personally. I really dont like the lack of choice i know it makes it easy for Apple Tech support and even marketing with the limited models and locked down OS. But I do really worry that so much inovation is going to disapear or be locked down in the IT Industry. Mostly down to the crazy american patent laws which Apple and others use to their advantage and I dont blame them otherwise their shareholders would go loopy

Plus on a Phill UK tip which is why we are all
I dont like the fact that the battery and the memory are not easily replacable (I know you can do if you really want or pay 60 quid or so i belive) and expandable both things in particular when it comes to passing on to phill both very handy we have found in the past so they get more life out of the device The making them pretty hard to unlock is also a downer for the hand on to the phill family member device.

[complex]

But I would prefer to have web pages working away (Dont forget the cloud even apple want us working up their soon), my emails doing their stuff (downloading/uploading an attachment in the background), My word program spellchecking or find n replacing in the background as I nip over to my music player, while I also check my Pod cast downloads. While I fiddle with my Camera settings and use the photo editor which can process the photgraph while i do something else rather than watch an eggtimer

The thing is, if everyone wanted to do this, which is making the phone sound like a desktop computer we would all probably be running Windows Mobile on our phones, the iphone doesn't down load attachment until you tell it, but thats probably because they don't wanna clog up the network which you gotta take into consideration, but it will check your mail and from what I know will refresh web pages when mobile safari isn't open. Spell checking a large text file on your phone? seriously? lol while editing photo's, well the only photo editing iv'e done on the iphone maybe takes a couple seconds to do, time it takes you to switch to another app, would be a waste of time switching which would then slow the background app dread to think if you was doing all those things how slow it would be, then you get a call and the phone crashes! lol

I tend to go with the less is sometimes more idea and we don't need our devices to do everything just because we can have the internet in a fridge do we want it, sometimes people have to know when to put the brakes on. I suppose it just boils down to people don't like apple or any company telling them they cant do things, but then you buy another companies product.

I can think of several applications I need running in the background and even non Techy people do on other phones. It will be intresting if they dare go down the multitask with the next version

Rumours are the next OS update will bring multitasking but I'm not convinced, I think maybe when the phones are more powerful and has better battery life, but I suspect they will still want to implement it in a way so that people don't end up accidentally running loads of apps they didn't realise were still open.

Im not keen on the way the company is heading personally. I really dont like the lack of choice i know it makes it easy for Apple Tech support and even marketing with the limited models and locked down OS. But I do really worry that so much inovation is going to disapear or be locked down in the IT Industry. Mostly down to the crazy american patent laws which Apple and others use to their advantage and I dont blame them otherwise their shareholders would go loopy

I think there are a lot of Mac users that would agree, but like you point out the positives for the company, not necessarily for the users are big, they have a streamline product range, makes it easier in many ways. Easier to manage supply levels and much more. Plus they only cater for the high end market, not making cheap underpowered devices. I always remember going into the Sony store in Tottenham Court road and counting no less than 43 different laptop models in the Sony range, I think Apple being more specialised is to their benefit. Could be said the same for the iPhone, while every other company is busy churning out model after model, Apple has one model that just seems to work for a lot of people.

[somebody]

[QUOTE=complex;213311]The thing is, if everyone wanted to do this, which is making the phone sound like a desktop computer we would all probably be running Windows Mobile on our phones, the iphone doesn't down load attachment until you tell it, but thats probably because they don't wanna clog up the network which you gotta take into consideration, but it will check your mail and from what I know will refresh web pages when mobile safari isn't open. Spell checking a large text file on your phone? seriously? lol while editing photo's, well the only photo editing iv'e done on the iphone maybe takes a couple seconds to do, time it takes you to switch to another app, would be a waste of time switching which would then slow the background app dread to think if you was doing all those things how slow it would be, then you get a call and the phone crashes! lol



I tend to go with the less is sometimes more idea and we don't need our devices to do everything just because we can have the internet in a fridge do we want it, sometimes people have to know when to put the brakes on. I suppose it just boils down to people don't like apple or any company telling them they cant do things, but then you buy another companies product.

QUOTE]

My N900 does allow me to run both open office and use gimp (Open source rule ok ) in a Debian VM at the same time runs a tad slowly like a few years old spec pc rather than todays latest. But means i can edit a picture with lots of choice of editing options and paste into a document if i so wish other phones i have and ones i owned in the past have done the same.

The last few phones i have owned have spell check large documents are you seriously telling me the Iphone cant? I thought it meant i could leave my laptop at home

With regards Emails the downloads would be ones i select rather than simply downloading for the sake of it just as with an iphone.As these can be quite a few meg i dont want to waste time watching it download so i get on with other things..

One thing i belive that clogs up the network as much as downloads is the Iphone and its power save method where it shuts connections and then reopens them which causes untold havoc with cells from what i understand..

The N900 has the same spec roughly as the 3gs from what i understand.

As you say the iphone is an appliance ie a phone which can run programs. While the n900 is a computer which can take calls which suits my needs..

Which is my argument that choice is important I think the Iphone is very useful and well designed for Apple. But what happens if all we have is a few very basic choices of phone which are all made to under perform so they are more realiable so less helpdesk calls etc...

It would be like a world with just a small choice of cars and very little difference. Handy for many but already many I know who have had Iphone for a few models now look at other models as they find the iphone jack of all trades master of none means its not what they really need.

Now with many other phones having a iphone browser agent mode to dumb down the browser for quicker browsing many realise if they want to browse face book or what not that possibly the iphone is not what they need..

[complex]

your not reading my response its quite clear, you said they stole it, I didn't say they invented it, you even admit it now in your follow up post that they licensed it and you ask where was you wrong?
Seems I try and be fair and reasonable and everytime someone responds changing the goal posts! Now tell me if I'm wrong lol

yes and although they were inspired by Xerox Parc to some degree it was Jeff Raskin who had ties with Xerox and brought attention to Steve Jobs, and he redefined and changed a lot of Xerox's UI, so the finished product was a lot more advanced.

Maybe you should take a look at these, i'm sure there is a lot more to read on the matter, first time I seen these links myself and I know I've read other pieces on the topic.

http://library.stanford.edu/mac/prim...skin/parc.html
http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

[joebloggs]

your not reading my response its quite clear, you said they stole it, I didn't say they invented it, you even admit it now in your follow up post that they licensed it and you ask where was you wrong?
Seems I try and be fair and reasonable and everytime someone responds changing the goal posts! Now tell me if I'm wrong lol

yes and although they were inspired by Xerox Parc to some degree it was Jeff Raskin who had ties with Xerox and brought attention to Steve Jobs, and he redefined and changed a lot of Xerox's UI, so the finished product was a lot more advanced.

Maybe you should take a look at these, i'm sure there is a lot more to read on the matter, first time I seen these links myself and I know I've read other pieces on the topic.

http://library.stanford.edu/mac/prim...skin/parc.html
http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

yes your wrong, where in my post did i say they stole it ??, you've mentioned stealing in 3 posts up to now..


and you've admitted it yourself that the mouse and GUI came from Xerox, so how am i wrong ?? , oh hang on they didn't invent the mouse they had to get a license , still apple didn't invent them did they ????

oh i see you've used the word 'inspired by'

this is what i said
'they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts'

the mouse they did license it, well they had to as it had a patent on it

some at apple had worked at xerox, jobs had seen the GUI at xerox, yes of course they didn't copy it 100%, they made their own changes and improvements

I created this method for moving objects and making selections after finding the Xerox click-move-click method prone to error

When I joined Apple in 1978 I stopped visiting PARC to avoid any possible conflicts of interest.

I eventually wrote a memo that showed, point by point, that the one-button mouse could do everything that PARCs three-button mouse could do and with the same number or fewer user actions

I had observed that people (including myself) at PARC often made wrong-button errors in using the mouse, which was part of my impetus for doing better.

jef raskin quotes.

[complex]

yes your wrong, where in my post did i say they stole it ??, you've mentioned stealing in 3 posts up to now..

and you've admitted it yourself that the mouse and GUI came from Xerox, so how am i wrong ?? , oh hang on they didn't invent the mouse they had to get a license , still apple didn't invent them did they ????

oh i see you've used the word 'inspired by'

this is what i said
'they've copied things from other companies - the mouse, GUI all came from xerox as well as many other firsts'

the mouse they did license it, well they had to as it had a patent on it

some at apple had worked at xerox, jobs had seen the GUI at xerox, yes of course they didn't copy it 100%, they made their own changes and improvements

I created this method for moving objects and making selections after finding the Xerox click-move-click method prone to error

When I joined Apple in 1978 I stopped visiting PARC to avoid any possible conflicts of interest.

I eventually wrote a memo that showed, point by point, that the one-button mouse could do everything that PARCs three-button mouse could do and with the same number or fewer user actions

I had observed that people (including myself) at PARC often made wrong-button errors in using the mouse, which was part of my impetus for doing better.

jef raskin quotes.

Hands up! Sorry I obviously thought you had implied apple stole when I read your post originally, you still seem to be implying they just used the GUI Xerox had and didn't change it considerably, did you read the links I posted, I'm sure when you learnt your computer history years ago, it wasn't told the way Raskin tells it now. And he pretty much says that himself.

This whole part of the argument stems from the fact I say Apple are well known for having a lot of R&D and you dispute this by saying they copy stuff, every company copies stuff, some do steal and not pay.

But one thing you did say was Jobs went to Parc and thats when he saw the GUI, but as Raskin says the project started way before that, so that wasnt the pivotable moment when a lot or people (not you) say it was then stolen.

RASKIN SAYS:
As I said in my history of the Mac Project (the one currently being serialized in CHAC), the Mac was by no means the work of one person, but the combined efforts of thousands in hundreds of companies large and small. It was not, as many accounts anachronistically relate, stolen from PARC by Steve Jobs after he saw the Alto running SmallTalk on a visit. For one thing the usual account (as in Levy's book, "Insanely Great" and others) denigrates the original and creative work done by all the Apple employees that put their hearts into the Mac.

And as far as the mouse goes, I was just trying to point out it wasn't merely a straight copy, i'm sure there must of been more under the hood optimisations apart from taking most of the buttons away. Surely the concept of the mouse is more important than how the mechanics work, and I think Apple redefined the concept by thinking about how it needed to be used, the same way they have done with touch interfaces.