Is a legal separation in the Philippines enough to obtain a fiancée visa for the UK?

[halfluke]

Hello,
I'm an Italian guy living and working in the UK.
I met a Filipino girl studying in UK, but now she's back in RP.
I'm planning to go and visit her this summer, but I also would like to know:

since she is still married with a Filipino (even if they dont live together anymore), is a legal separation enough for her to obtain a fiancée visa for UK?
Could she marry me here in UK with just a legal separation in the Philippines?
Do you know anything about Guam? Could she marry me here in UK with a divorce/annulment obtain in Guam, and would she be granted a fiancée visa?

Thanks in advance for any reply.

[fred]

Why are you asking questions that other forums have answered for you ten fold ?
Don`t you believe them?
IMO you are asking questions that you very well know the answer to. Tut tut.

[A_flyer]

To obtain a Fiancé she must be officially single (thru official Philippines NSO documents). If not it's a visa fraud.
To marry someone, this person must be single (see line above). Legal separation is not recognize as to be single, she is still married.
A divorce for a Filipino citizen is recognized only by the Philippines administration if the person is married to a Foreigner (not a Filipino citizen). Guam divorce is not a valid option.

Your only way is to go thru annulment, like you can read here and in other forums.

Last point, as you're not English but a Foreigner residing in UK, I don't think you can obtain a Fiancé visa to UK.

[halfluke]

Sorry,
I can assure you I haven't been lazy and I've looked around a lot, but the answers I found were not definitely clear.

Ok, so the only proper and legal way is an annulment.
But: we also know that a divorce obtained in another country would let her remarry in many other countries, except for the Philippines.
So my question is: what would happen if we get married abroad and then she has to go back to Philippines?
Would she be filed for bigamy? Wouldn't she be allowed to leave her country anymore?

[KeithD]

Would she be filed for bigamy?

This was answered a couple of weeks back...YES.

[A_flyer]

So my question is: what would happen if we get married abroad and then she has to go back to Philippines?
Would she be filed for bigamy? Wouldn't she be allowed to leave her country anymore?

You have to think of you too. If you marry and she still married for the Philippinnes administration. All verifications done there (IE by Embassies for a visa) will show your marriage is false. So it will be void but it's also visa and immigration fraud. So you may be prosecuted in Europe too. Remember that is all European countries illegal immigration is a big issue these days... and all countries are more and more strict on this.

[halfluke]

Ok I see,
but it's not exactly a fraud.
It may be a fraud for the Filipino government only.
A divorce obtained abroad should allow a new marriage abroad.
She just couldn't use the new marriage to obtain a visa.
I mean: theoretically, she could use her divorce paper obtained in Guam if she's abroad let's say for study reasons, to get married again.
I don't think we are going to use this half-legal method: too many problems. I was just exploring all the different options.

[A_flyer]

Ok I see,
but it's not exactly a fraud.
It may be a fraud for the Filipino government only.

Bigamy is a fraud in all countries... except the ones that allows polygamy (they are few!)
When marrying a Foreign citizen, you will be asked for a singleness certificate from her Citizenship country. How you will get it?
When I married my Filipina in France, they asked documents directly from her Embassy in Paris to check the validity of her status.

If she is on a student visa, it's not a spouse visa. Remember you're not living and working in your country (I mean your citizenship country). So I don't think you can adjust her status to stay legally as easy as this.

[halfluke]

Ok...
But what's a divorce obtained in Guam useful for then??
By the way, I'm from Italy, and in Europe there are no restrictions.
For me in UK it's like if I was living in Italy

[A_flyer]

But what's a divorce obtained in Guam useful for then??

Nothing if it concerns 2 Filipino citizens.

By the way, I'm from Italy, and in Europe there are no restrictions.

You're totally wrong, there are restrictions in Europe...

For me in UK it's like if I was living in Italy

Yes, because you are a citizen from European Union (even a US citizen has difficulties to come and settle to work in Europe). A Filipina is not so the problem is quite more complex!

Just a question: why are you trying to trick the laws and not going thru only legally? Be careful that all immigrations know better than you all the tricks to do the things illegally. You will be trapped one time.

[ginapeterb]

Halfluke,

My collegaues Yves and Keith have given you very good advice, you should refrain from trying to circumvent the laws of our country, as an Italian citizen, you are resident in the UK, which you are entitled to work and reside, however you are not entitled to get around the laws of the UK, since many of us on this forum have had to patiently wait to obtain the required visa's for our wives, we take exception to those who would seek to get around our countries immigration laws, without doing things properly.

Your Girlfriend is a Filipino citizen, she may not obtain divorce anywhere in the world from her husband, the only action she may take is to file for a legal anulment if her case warrants it, however that is a matter for the Philippine Supreme court, and not for this forum to consider.

As you are someone presently settled in the United Kingdom you would need to apply for entry clearance visa for your GF at the British Embassy, until your GF has a legal anulment granted 6 to 18 months, then you can take no further action.

I can only concur with my colleague Yves in Republic of France, and Keith here in UK, Im sure Rob our colleague in Wales will no doubt concur, I trust you will do the right thing.

Thank you for coming to the forum.

Pete

[halfluke]

Thank you very much.

I don't want and I'm not going to trick the laws.
As I said, she will probably file for an annulment (and I'll pay )
I asked you about the Guam thing because I've found a couple of website talking about that.

I can post their links here.
If i'm not allowed, please feel free to remove them.

Luca

http://www.nevadadivorce.net/Philippines_divorce.html
(scroll down the page and you find more or less what the Filipino Family Code says)

http://public.findlaw.com/mboards/we...@.ef1469e/2094
it is a reply to case similar to mine, and it states that a divorce obtained abroad would let her remarry anywhere except in RP.
But the visa and the bigamy problem wouldn't be solved, that's why I think we are going for the long and safe side.

By the way: what happens is the annulment is refused? Have you ever heard about cases of refused annulments? I guess that that would be the final end of any dream...

[A_flyer]

Both sites are more relative to US (I mean a US person wants to marry a Filipino citizen). Laws are very different there than in Europe (for example there is no unique database for marriage in the US so it's very difficult to know if a US citizen is really single). In Europe, most countries have a database recording marriages/divorce/birth/deaths, so do the Philippines.

The first site is speaking of divorce in the Philippines, but it explain the annulment in reality which is not the same.

Regarding the Philippines laws, here are the extracts:

Art. 26. All marriages solemnized outside the Philippines, in accordance with the laws in force in the country where they were solemnized, and valid there as such, shall also be valid in this country, except those prohibited under Articles 35 (1), (4), (5) and (6), 3637 and 38. (17a)
Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouse shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law. (As amended by Executive Order 227)

Only a divorce originated by the foreigner spouse will be recognize by the Philippines.

For the annulment, you have first to refer to the Family code of the Philippines where you have all the grounds to start an annulment procedure:
Read it from here: http://www.chanrobles.com/executiveorderno209.htm
Title I, Chapter 3, article 35 to 50

To file an annulment, you go to court. So it's like other cases at court... long, costly and without 100% warranty of success.
Get a good lawyer there (don't hire one abroad, only one in the area of the court where the annulment have to be filed).

Good luck!

[francesca]

good topic Yves.
I have filipina in Paris asking me how to file an annulment. I told them to first determine if they have grounds. If they have, the next question is, if they can afford the hefty process. Its not only because they wanted it, they must be ready emotionally and financilally until the process is finish.

Many clients of Atty Pulido, after they agreed the agreement fees, start filing the case in court, they dont want to continue anymore the case.

Or they said, lets move on with the case, when petition made, they said, sorry, I went back to my husband, LOL

Or a client lied to the atty. Or the client said her husband is nowhere to find, but discovered her husband still lives in the clients house.

In summary, when a client said I want an annulment, Atty Pulido would say, are you ready for your grounds? I dont want lies and I dont fabricate grounds for you.
Hehe.

[A_flyer]

You're true Francesca, it's not a easy process!

[halfluke]

Well, if I start paying and then she changes her mind or she even goes back to her husband... I would have deserved the cheat

[bentghie]

Well, if I start paying and then she changes her mind or she even goes back to her husband... I would have deserved the cheat

================

THATS A BIG PROBLEM

ANYWAY,, YOU NEED TO BE SURE THAT YOUR GF/FIANCEE DONT HAVE FEELINGS TO HER HUSBAND.

[baboyako]

I'd say it was the last thing you need to concern yourself with:

Last point, as you're not English but a Foreigner residing in UK, I don't think you can obtain a Fiancé visa to UK.

[halfluke]

Well, I love her, and I've chosen to risk.

About the fiance visa: I'm quite sure that being an Italian living in UK doesn't affect that

[baboyako]

so why don't people rent a mailbox in latvia, apply for a latvian fiancee visa (must be easy I would imagine), then get a EEA family permit?

[halfluke]

I can't understand your last reply.

I can check the UK immigration rules again, but I'm quite sure she can obtain a fiancé visa to marry me in UK.

But this is a problem for the future... Now the matter is not getting screwed by her husband and getting that bloody annulment, which I know it wonìt be easy nor quick

[halfluke]

I need your wise advice on this matter:

my gf is probably starting the annulment process next month, she has already met her husband and he even seems to be keen to pay half of it!
But he wouldn't like to be the "psychologically incapacitated" one.
Actually, she left the family house (because of his infidelity), so he may have better grounds to file than her.
But as we know, a good psychiatrist and a good lawyer can make miracles.

We have to make a decision: let him file the annulment and have the control of the whole process (of course she wouldn't oppose)? or she'd better to keep the control and file (and in this case he may oppose and maybe refuse to pay, because he doesn't want to be defined psychologically incapacitated)?

I know that a consentient husband may be quite a rare and lucky case, but it may not be as good as it seems... Any experience or advice?

Thanks

[Jimbo]

Hi Halfluke

Some of the advice that has been given to you is not entirely correct.
However everybody’s circumstances are different and there are some areas mentioned in previous posts that I will not be drawn into.

That said it is possible for your fiancé to obtain a divorce abroad and subsequently be granted a fiancé visa. A marriage that follows would be perfectly legal anywhere except of course in the Philippines.

Jimbo

[halfluke]

Hi Halfluke

Some of the advice that has been given to you is not entirely correct.
However everybody’s circumstances are different and there are some areas mentioned in previous posts that I will not be drawn into.

That said it is possible for your fiancé to obtain a divorce abroad and subsequently be granted a fiancé visa. A marriage that follows would be perfectly legal anywhere except of course in the Philippines.

Jimbo

Excuse me Jimbo, but if you know something that none else knows.. could you please tell me?
Expecially the matter concerning how to obtain a fiancé visa after a divorce obtained abroad.
Thanks!

[KeithD]

It doesn't matter what you do, it will still be illegal in the Philippines unless it is annulled there.

[Ping]

HEy listen. if your girlfriend was married in the Philippines she can not file a divorced anywhere and there is no divorce law in the country.Their married was registered in Philippines so its not legal or valid if in case she obtained a divorced paper outside the country.She has to file an annulment if she got a good grounds. There is no other way my dear so keep on reading in this forum and in Pete's cause it was a long time topic. Okay!

[Jimbo]

Halfluke

Obtaining a fiancé visa is a long and frustrating business and I have no idea whether your application would be successful.
However there is nothing to stop your fiancé obtaining a divorce overseas that is recognized internationally except in the Philippines.
Actually it would be recognized in the British Embassy in Manila!
With a valid divorce of course you can marry in this country and you will not encounter any problems doing so. Also there will be no problems with the home office. It is all perfectly legal and entirely normal. Filipino family code does not apply outside the Philippines.
Your situation is similar to mine a couple of years ago.



Win2Win

You are correct and there are potential problems in the Philippines but in practice it is unlikely to matter.


Jimbo

[A_flyer]

One of the requirement for filing a divorce in a foreign country is to be resident (and so have a residency card/permit). It's not applicable for people having a tourist/work/student visa.

[halfluke]

Except in Guam

But the problem still stays: if she had another opportunity to live abroad, then we might probably married with a divorce obtained, let's say, in Guam.
But we can't use our marriage to obtain a visa, that's the problem! Because to obtain a marriage visa she would still have to go back to the Philippines where the new marriage wouldn't be recognized.

Anyway, I'm planning to move to the Phil this summer, to be close to her until she gets the annulment.
I'll use my savings!

[Jimbo]

to obtain a marriage visa she would still have to go back to the Philippines where the new marriage wouldn't be recognized.

The British Embassy in Manila would recognize your partners divorce and your proposed marriage.
The Philippine authorities play no part in your visa application.

Jimbo