Is lying ever acceptable in a relationship?

[Malleus]

I would be very interested to hear members take on this issue. I have just discovered that my pinay gf is lying to me on a certain issue in our relationship.

She is by her own admission a very jealous girl when in a relationship (this seems to be a pinay trait!). She has begged me many times not to maintain contact with any of my ex's or to flirt with other women and has asked me to promise never to lie to her.

This wasnt a problem to me as I love her and have no interest in anyone else. So to be fair, I asked her to reciprocate and do the same. She promised faithfully many times that she would. From time to time I jokingly ask her if she is in contact with any of her ex's (no big deal to me really) and she is adamant that she is not.

However recently I have discovered that she is indeed in contact with them, and adding guys who are, shall we say flirtatious, to her friendster page (which she doesnt realise I know about).

I am not the jealous type, so this doesnt bother me much. What really bothers me though is the fact that she is lying about it, and lying very convincingly. Not just once either, but continuously. She is so earnest and adamant when she is trying to reassure me that she does not do this.

Admittedly she doesnt flirt with these guys but she does continually add more and chats with them regularly in spite of her assertions to the contrary.

Although I realise no actual cheating has taken place, I still feel somewhat betrayed. Its not the fact that she has told me a lie that bothers me so much. Everyone tells white lies from time to time. Its the fact that the lie is so blatant, and she tells it so naturally and convincingly that bothers me.

Where once I believed her automatically, I now find myself doubting everything she has told me and I feel that once the trust is gone, no matter how much I love her, the relationship will become untenable.

If any of you discovered your significant other was lying to you like this, what would you do?

[grahamw48]

I divorced her.

When basic trust has gone...what is left ?

My (Filipina) ex lied right from the start.

She told me she only had one child, whereas she had two.

I consider this a pretty major lie !

I didn't find out until we'd been married a few months and I'd already brought her to the UK.
As it happens I forgave her and subsequently brought both of her children here to the UK and raised them as my own, but her lying also meant that I had some clever explaining to do when applying for their visas.
Remember, she had only declared one child on HER original visa application form.

Not a good start though, and it gnaws away at you.
It spoilt and ultimately destroyed our marriage (after 12 years).
I was always faithful to her, despite a lot of temptations when out in the Phils.

Later in the relationship she started to cheat....this from a girl who if you met her you wouldn't think butter would melt in her mouth.

Lying so early in a relationship is an absolute no-no for me.
I'd rather be on my own.

You need to consider your future and your choice of partner very carefully IMO.

[stevewool]

a lie is a lie no matter what , its down to yourself how you deal with it, i would be jeolous if emma was adding more and more people on her site without talking about it, so you not being jeolous about those things well you are a better man then me on that,

[malditako]

lying is a big no no...if u lost ur trust to her theres no way u will trust her again later...u can never fix a broken glass ever again...and talking to exes regularly is a no no to me either unless i know them and talk to them as well.

[Terpe]

Been there, read the book and seen the film.
Lying (about anything) is not acceptable to me. period!

Carina and I have a totally open and honest relationship with unquestioned trust.
We can talk about anything and everything ... and we do.
That's what we both want.
No jealousy coz no reason.

But...If I ever lied to her or deceived her (about anything) I know it would be the end. No question. No second chances.
If Carina ever lied or deceived me about anything. It's the end. No question. No arguments. No second chances.

It's a poison that will eventually destory you.

Just our personal pathway.
May not suit everyone. Others may be more forgiving. It's a life choice.
If she ever lied to me it would be the end

[stevewool]

its hard to say it until it happens we all think we would do this and that, i forgave but i think it was the worry of being alone but it was the start of the downfall for me then in that relationship, we learn from each other , fooling around laughing together saying silly things white lies together and laughing at them is great but always remember to say i love you before you sleep and everytime you leave her at home

[Terpe]

..but always remember to say i love you before you sleep and everytime you leave her at home

We always do that as well.

[Rosie1958]

I am so sorry to learn about your experiences Malleus. Firstly, your girlfriend's insecurities are her problem and one that she needs to address. I really do think that you ought to lay your cards on the table and have a very open and honest discussion with her about what you have found and the way it makes you feel. A successful relationship is based on trust and I'm afraid that once that is gone, that would be it for me ......... unless there was a very exceptional reason, I'd have to finish it.

[sars_notd_virus]

Is lying ever acceptable in a relationship?

NO ,because it will eventually comes out and bite u in the bum...and can lead to mistrust.

[dontpushme]

Malleus, first off, it's dangerous and wrong to assume jealousy is a Filipina trait. That's kinda like my assumption (last year, before I got to know the people on this forum) that all provincial Filipinas married to older Caucasians were cheap, golddigging tramps. Of course, I only thought so then because it was what my past experiences had led me to believe just as, I'm sure, your past experiences have led you to believe Filipinas are naturally jealous. Now I know my assumption was wrong (boy, was it wrong!) and I'd like you to know that that assumption of yours is wrong too. So there.

I was born and raised in the Philippines and I've never been jealous of anyone. If you trust someone, jealousy will never rear its ugly head. Your relationship lacks trust, and it sounds like she has never been able to trust in you completely. She knew what she was capable of doing behind your back and was probably thinking you could be doing the same thing behind hers. I understand that she hasn't flirted with anyone, but she hasn't stopped them from flirting with her either. Could she just be keeping her options open?

There are things you just don't tell your partner because sometimes it's better to keep things to yourself to avoid conflict. This is definitely not one of those things. I'm sorry that you're having to go through all this uncertainty and doubt, but I'm sure if you didn't consider ending the relationship (even once), you wouldn't be asking for advice. She doesn't sound trustworthy at all.

I agree with what everyone else has said before me, though I'd say give her a chance to explain herself. For all we know, she could just have been hesitant to hurt those guys' feelings by telling them to back the hell off. One thing Filipinas and Filipinos have trouble with is being direct, especially if being direct would cause someone's feelings to be hurt. If you do decide to let her explain herself and it sounds like she's just bull****ing you, walk away. You don't need to be with a consummate liar.

[-sillybilly-]

Hello Malleus!

Sorry to hear about your aches with this kind of pinay. I feel really shameful, and i do apologize!

Well I guess you really have to think about yourself. You're talking about your future love life here and when you sound that you couldnt trust her, then thats where the problem starts. Relationship isnt going anywhere when the trust has been broken.

If I were you I would really tell her that you know what she has been doing and how you feel about it. She asked you not to do this but here she comes doing it behind your back. Shes just one insecure, unfair woman!
And when you done that, get rid of her. Shes not the only woman left in the world.

A kind of woman like her doesnt deserve an honest and truthful love. And one day you'll find yourself better off her because atleast you dont have to worry about thinking what could she be doing and not telling you it. It makes you real paranoid when you just couldnt trust someone anymore and you dont need that.

There are a lot better who deserves and will give you back the love you want in return without doubting and it rest your mind aswell. Trust me.

That kind of woman aint no good for you....

[Lancashirelad]

Hi Malleus,

sorry to hear of your situation, I think you need to have a chat with your girl and see what she has to say about it when you confront her. Maybe she considers it a white lie because she isnt cheating, or maybe she is just dishonest.
I also suppose it depends how emotionally involved you already are in the relationship and if you have met already and have solid future plans.
Maybe i could forgive the lies if i genuinely believed they were white lies and nothing is going on, but i must say the trust would take quite a while to rebuild. i wish you all the best whatever you decide.

[fred]

I suppose it depends on the lie..The type of lies described here on this thread are juicy black ones and of course are not acceptable.. White lies though can often prevent a lot of drama and arguments in my experience and are quite often a useful tool when used correctly!! (especially in a marriage) Honesty is not always the best policy in my view.

[febmary]

Lies betrays trust. We should earn trust. Its good u found earlier about dishonesty of her. I dont know if she deserves a second chance. This may be just petty..but its all up to you.

[rani]

i can forgive one "white lie" and would talk about him how honesty is important for me... if lying continues.. then its very clear that he can't be honest with you... the trust and respect will soon be vanished, the relationship suffer, and the love will eventually die

[Terpe]

I think it was Mark Twain who said:-
"If you always tell the truth then you don't have to remember what you said"

[JimOttley]

I think it was Mark Twain who said:-
"If you always tell the truth then you don't have to remember what you said"

The best way to lie is to tell the truth with a spin or to tell the truth unconvincingly, for exactly the reason you quoted from Samuel Clemens, always tell the truth so you don't have to remember what you said

Personally I hate lying also for this exact same reason, I don't want to have to remember a falsehood, it's just too hard.

Lying in a relationship, once you know it is there, is very hard to forgive and it is unlikely that the other party will change, if they can lie about one thing they can probably lie about anything.

[ghee101]

I think it was Mark Twain who said:-
"If you always tell the truth then you don't have to remember what you said"

yes. and even if you repeat everything or go in circles, it will always be the same.

white lie....hmmmmm an ex boyfriend of mine is a big fan of this. i hated it! i hated him for it too! we often had arguments regarding this subject.

[Terpe]

white lie....hmmmmm an ex boyfriend of mine is a big fan of this. i hated it! i hated him for it too! we often had arguments regarding this subject.

It also depends on how you define 'white lie'. Purely subjective I feel.
What are the boundaries ? When does a big white lie become a so called small black lie?

Just my feelings.

[stevewool]

in fun like hiding something then laughing together that to me is ok makes the day go quicker, you find out how far you both can go before it upsets one of you,

[fred]

white lie....hmmmmm an ex boyfriend of mine is a big fan of this. i hated it! i hated him for it too! we often had arguments regarding this subject.

He may of been a fan but was quite obviously not very good at it otherwise you would never have known!
He`s probably a pretty good white liar now.
Practice makes perfect!

[somebody]

Dont push me post has saved a lot of typing for me

Those who lie or tell fibs are often very self concious about others doing so Which might be why she is very concerned about you talking to Exes etc. But..

Phills do have a problem with being direct and I have notice Phills love to simple add people to there social media websites they dont have the British/western privacy thing going on in many cases.

Many Phill guys can be very flirty with my Wife I notice even when im there. The Wife ignores and so do I. Not really worth flattening a guy in a public place when you know the Wife and you are the ones together..
Saying that even tho me and the Wife were together a Takeaway shop owner was so happy chatting to my wife he forgot to charge us for the food and gave us extras the other day. Prats like that get what they deserve
Some of its harmless its just the macho culture but I guess only you and her know whats acceptable..

One thing you need to consider is the fact you have access to her friendster account. Regardless of what is said or done in there many people would be badly hurt that there lover would do such a thing. The wife and I rarely venture on to one anothers phones although both happy to let the other use (very kind of the wife as I pay for it )
Sometimes you need to have a bit of privacy and trust.

One thing I have noticed from mainly knowing pinays both in real life and facebook via the Wife. Is that Phill women seem to think rightly or wrongly men cant be trusted or be tempted while they know they would not be tempted themselves. To many Phill girls the very thought of cheating on their man or someone cheating on them is a big fat no no.
A twisted logic but there you go..

[dontpushme]

One thing I have noticed from mainly knowing pinays both in real life and facebook via the Wife. Is that Phill women seem to think rightly or wrongly men cant be trusted or be tempted while they know they would not be tempted themselves. To many Phill girls the very thought of cheating on their man or someone cheating on them is a big fat no no.
A twisted logic but there you go..

I think it might be the fault of our celebrities and public figures. It's horrible, but in the Philippines, men who have children with several mistresses are idolised (boils my blood...). A few examples of these %^$%^#@$ people are Dolphy (18 kids with five women, none of whom he married), FPJ (had two kids outside of his marriage), our former president Joseph "Erap" Estrada (with at least 11 kids by six women, three of whom he had longterm relationships with. two of them lived with him and his wife). Erap's four extravagant households were old news way before he was elected president. Someone else had, like, 70 kids with several women, but I'm not too familiar with our entertainment industry so I couldn't even begin to guess which pervert it was.

LOL! Somebody's post just kinda made me realise that Malleus' girl may just be the type who grew up seeing all these guys make fools of women. Maybe she's just worried he'll do the same, seeing as guys naturally have a tendency to stray but women don't. One thing I stand by is giving her the chance to explain herself.

[bher]

for me if someone cheated/lied to you once, he/she will definitely do it repeatedly., twice, for the third time, fourth etc .. again and again and again,.. when TRUST is gone with the MARRIAGE/ RELATIONSHIP it will be very difficult to give it again..

[grahamw48]

Hmm, I hate to bring things back to reality, but WHY does it seem that so many Filipinas have illegitimate kids ?

It takes two to Tango, and what happened to the word 'no' ?

Yes us guys maybe more prone to wander, but most of us aren't rapists.

I think this is a social problem in the Philippines that could do with addressing, considering the rapidly rising population.

I would first of all point the finger at the church.
Time to drag themselves into the 21st century and start doing some genuine good for their followers/brainwashed from birth disciples.

People won't stop cheating and sleeping around (as here), but at least there would be a reduction on the millions of kids disadvantaged from day one, and struggling mothers robbed of their youth.

Incidentally...SOME Filipinas DO cheat on their men, as women in every society do.

[dontpushme]

True, women cheat just like men do. But in the Philippines, men who cheat aren't seen in as negative a light as women who do. In fact, if they have mistresses, chances are, some of their friends would be happy for them and say they're macho and obviously virile and worthy of admiration. Women have more to lose so in a lot of places, they are less prone to cheat than the men.

Haha! It is a social problem, but one that's prevalent in several countries. The difference is the context. If you're a rich, successful woman and you have a child out of wedlock, it's because you obviously chose to not be bothered with men and instead you took the bull by the horns and started a family by yourself (since you're so capable). If you're poor, which is the case with so many Filipinas, you just happened to have an accident and now you're gonna be paying for it for years unless the government decides to finally hold men responsible for supporting children they sired.

[somebody]

Hmm, I hate to bring things back to reality, but WHY does it seem that so many Filipinas have illegitimate kids ?

It takes two to Tango, and what happened to the word 'no' ?

Yes us guys maybe more prone to wander, but most of us aren't rapists.

I think this is a social problem in the Philippines that could do with addressing, considering the rapidly rising population.

I would first of all point the finger at the church.
Time to drag themselves into the 21st century and start doing some genuine good for their followers/brainwashed from birth disciples.

People won't stop cheating and sleeping around (as here), but at least there would be a reduction on the millions of kids disadvantaged from day one, and struggling mothers robbed of their youth.

Incidentally...SOME Filipinas DO cheat on their men, as women in every society do.

True Graham but if you listen to older generation women in the Uk where having a child out of wedlock or being separated was a far worse issue for the women to an extend it still is for the Women in Phil.

Guys in Phills have a kid with a girl who they haven't married can either do the right thing or leg it I know of Pinays this has happened to. While the Pinay is left with the burden of bringing up the child..

I know of several Pinays who are highly educated and for one reason or other have been left carrying the Baby for them the well off family and their education has meant like dontpushme says they can survive and take on the world but thats a small percentage of the female population of Phill who can do that it appears..

Many western girls in the UK still think of guys as far more likely to cheat than they would as a female.. I dont think it just a phil thing but as dontpushme writes far better than I they see so many examples of the stud and the shameless hussy around them...

On the not mentioning the second child again twisted logic to us Brits maybe?

The Wife never mentioned siblings then mentioned her Bro then it became obvious she had a sister as well all before we met. But sometimes Pinays meet a guy their dream Guy and dont want to mention things that may put the guy off. Thinking it all be ok later on. no malice was meant by the Wife she was worried that she was a Ate who had two little siblings I might run away. Of course I didn't and won't and they are integral part of our life Although taking it to putting a lie on a VIsa form seems a bit to much..


I think sometimes us Brits look at things with a British mindest and forget not all humans think quite the same way. Not to say what your ex wife did was in any way excusable.

[Terpe]

....I think sometimes us Brits look at things with a British mindest and forget not all humans think quite the same way....

This is a very key observation we should all be mindful of in so many situations..

[grahamw48]

Yes, sorry it seemed like I had a real rant there.

I'm really becoming a grumpy old man these days.

I could never consider deserting a child (or embryo ?) of mine.

For me, bringing up kids has just been a wonderful experience.

(Even if I can't hear myself think as I write this...my son playing his electric guitar...bless him. )

[dontpushme]

I know of several Pinays who are highly educated and for one reason or other have been left carrying the Baby for them the well off family and their education has meant like dontpushme says they can survive and take on the world but thats a small percentage of the female population of Phill who can do that it appears..

On the not mentioning the second child again twisted logic to us Brits maybe?

Yeah, money and connections make a lot of difference in the Philippines. If you have neither, there's really no chance that you won't be ostracised for "being a hussy".

LOL! I don't know about that whole second child thing. I think one should be completely honest about that sort of thing from the start. Haha! You can't just go, "thanks for the honeymoon! that was lovely! oh, and here's a picture of your new stepson. his name's Wossname." But that's just me. I guess no matter how old you are, the stigma of having kids and no husband will still stick. So maybe fewer kids in tow will mean less embarrassment for some women.

I think sometimes us Brits look at things with a British mindest and forget not all humans think quite the same way. Not to say what your ex wife did was in any way excusable.

Amen! Sometimes we just all need to step back and look at things from another angle.

Yes, sorry it seemed like I had a real rant there.

I'm really becoming a grumpy old man these days.

I could never consider deserting a child (or embryo ?) of mine.

For me, bringing up kids has just been a wonderful experience.

No, you have a point. I've always felt that way too whenever another friend comes and tells me she's pregnant and she doesn't know what to do. It gets really hard to not tell them to stop whining about the guy and just accept that if they'd kept their happy little legs together, that problem wouldn't have happened in the first place. In the end, I give in and give my support as a friend, but sometimes I can't help those thoughts either. It's not all the guys' fault.

(Even if I can't hear myself think as I write this...my son playing his electric guitar...bless him. )

Haha! At least your son's not stomping around being mean to the family. I'd take a cacophony of "music" over yelling and screaming any day.