Benefit Britain

[laurel]

. He who says there is no work to be had Ask the Eastern block folk coming here for there £5.93 per hour They are not afraid of work What ever it is. The British out of work should be ashamed of themselves.

Thats a broad brush statement mate............im in the construction industry and my income is down by almost half ......read that again HALF...................but my bills are still as expensive as before.
I have worked with dozens of Poles , Albanians etc aver the last 10 yrs.plenty of em are decent tradesmen , dont believe they are all crap cos they arent!!!!...........but the crux of the matter is they can afford to work for far far less than the average man . This prices guys like me out of work ......recently I was one of only 3 english guys on a site of over 40 men , why cos they get in on the job and then get all their pals a start as well. Bottom line is its not a level playin field ...........
So when im next at home out of work dont say i should be ashamed or i'll whip your butt Haha .........only jokin but you get my point i hope

[stevewool]

there are lots of people like many say on here that just dont want work, and some how just cant work, its trying to cut out the bad people from the barrel, we have drivers here that moan if they have to do a little more work, there quote, be better of on the dole, well most know me now, i say what comes out and tell them to swing,and i think thats the problem here its not just the job seekers allowanceits what is added , rent, council tax and what ever else they may get , so once you have added all that together it may be not worth to them working, i for one could not live on that job seekers i have a mortgage to pay lucky i have no dept other then that, and keeping emma, but thats another story , god i dont know were she puts all that food,i have family members who have not worked for years but are happy to live very basic, he has no big tv, nice cloths and sky, so really as i say some get everything some get nothing, there us to be a thing going round years ago have kids and you get everything does that still happen

[keithAngel]

Steve a thought has occured to me that part of the problem is the over inflated cost of accomadation this may be brought about by the very benifit system you refer to

If people can buy investment property and get there rents paid by the rest of us via housing benifit this will as a by product raise the price of renting thus fuelling the cycle if the public purse only payed rents up to the cost of public housing we might all be better off

No family can survive on a single basic wage earner and rent or buy a house anymore so what is the incentive? Economic fiddling has brought this about in my view

You can build a 3 bed house for about 60,000 but the land and planning adds another 100,000 affordable housing is a basic right we have ignored since thatcher and we are paying the price now with the next generation unable to afford to leave home

When i was a youngster my rent was a quarter to a third of my income same youngsters today more like 50-65%

[Arthur Little]

When i was a youngster my rent was a quarter to a third of my income same youngsters today more like 50-65%

, Keith ... I'm quite frankly, at a loss to understand how any of today's youngsters can afford to buy or even rent accommodation, with property prices being as they are!!!

[gWaPito]

Yes, I agree It was a very broad brush statement I made about ' every Brit unemployed should be ashamed of themselves' that was wrong and out of order. Sars started this thread just at a time I was thinking about some one living close to us, we call him the cat man because of the cats he has. He is the guy with the sky tv 60in etc etc And he just had his drive paved ! He is not working! We just about to have ours done at a cost of £3000 and I will be doing the labouring!. The Mail have been giving the unemployed a turning over too these last few weeks as well. I was not putting the Eastern Euro's down! Far from it. I would employ them for sure. For there work rate alone they are 2nd to none. I did not mean to offend any one here ok I was having a bad day.

[stevewool]

we all have bad days and its how its taken , thats one thing we all know its not ment to upset anyone but we all must sat whats on our mind plus if need be say sorry too,

[sars_notd_virus]

some of the staff i have in the store i work do 20hrs a week and they say that the only get £10(ish) more than if they where on the dole, not much of an incentive to go back to work if they can just sit on their asses doing nothing and get paid much the same as if working.

what people want and need is a fair days pay for a fair days work, you need enough to live on

the real problem is the lack of decent paid jobs, if the job you get is no more than the benefits you may get...why bother to work

the biggest influence in a child’s life is the behaviour of their parents. If the parents have been scrounging and claiming benefits for years, the kids “when grown up” are more likely to do so too.

They got employment agencies in these countries the reason being no one wants to work min wage while being better off by not working Like Sars said That cant be right.

... I understood perfectly well, what Sars was saying. And, as I myself, said earlier ... she has made a very valid point! Trouble IS, rich or poor ... people consistenly want more in terms of material wealth - always have ... always will - it's an inherent human trait!

some people wonder why work if they can get more in benefits than working, so either benefits are too high or the minimum wag is too low ?

Bottom line is its not a level playin field ...........

EXACTLY thats my point for this thread !!!thanks guys

A lot of people work hard and the UK Government takes the money off the hard workers and give it to the people who dont want to work....I am sure theres some GENUINE CASES but, lets admit for a fact that some young-able-dolers choose it as a LIFESTYLE..how can they do that???





**i may not be british to rant !!! but, I will be looking to get a job soon,to bring some money into household and also for my own self-esteem and am sure i will 'mind' where all my tax goes or gone **

[laurel]

Yes, I I was not putting the Eastern Euro's down! Far from it. I would employ them for sure. For there work rate alone they are 2nd to none. I did not mean to offend any one here ok I was having a bad day.

Hey , no offence taken , yeah the Eastern Europeans are mostly good workers , but when you're on the receiving end of not being given the job cos you're WAY too expensive it pee's me off no end.
Let me give an example of what im talking about.

Im a plasterer, over 20yrs...................housing estate new build in Essex, price for labour to plaster 3 bedroom house top to bottom.....£450.00, the whole house.............thats bordering on impossible for anyone to make money, but thats what we have created here, now to be fair that is an EXTREME example but true none the less.

[les_taxi]

On my facebook page I noticed this (these are friends of one of my neighbours)
"I was on a 17.5k a year job.... Got pregnant and made redundant..... Since having baby I've had the most money I've ever had..... Works out at 19k a year....... What's the point on working, if ill get less money, have to put my children into childcare and have to actually work??.... If I can stop at home, with my children, enjoy them as they grow up and have more money....... Why not? "

typical attitude I'm afraid

[KeithD]

The problem isn't the people on benefits, it's the system that gives them the money.

You get £65 JS + £100 HB + £15 CT That's £180 a week.... Call it a £220/wk wage ... so to make it work your while you need a job with double that..... and that's just a single person.

If you are entitled to money and don't claim, then you're just effectively giving the government 100% tax on what you are due!!!

[les_taxi]

The problem isn't the people on benefits, it's the system that gives them the money.

You get £65 JS + £100 HB + £15 CT That's £180 a week.... Call it a £220/wk wage ... so to make it work your while you need a job with double that..... and that's just a single person.

If you are entitled to money and don't claim, then you're just effectively giving the government 100% tax on what you are due!!!

Yes of course you are right,but the days of feeling shame about being on benifits are long gone,the system is ...... and people will take full advantage of it.

(I don't mean people who have no choice or are incapicitated btw)

[Notavirusalso]

whilst i was doing some work in a brand new property near the wiltshire downs, a young girl and her friend were there with a young baby, as it was a new build I joked "for a new house you would think they would throw in a house Number" the house number was writen on a bit of paper and stuck to the door, she said yeah my mum had to do that, I asked if she would mind telling me how much they paid for it ? " I dunno" she said " its free ent it cuz I got a baby"
Saying that if its there you should take it doesnt make it right, benifit should be available for a limited time then withdrawn with an option to except conscript to one of the services, not just army ect but police,fire,ambulance or any other govt. run body.
makes me feel ill when ppl support the idea of well if your no bettr of working then why do it ? ? hummm because its coming out of my pocket ! ! !
next thing you know they will be giving disable parking pass to fat ppl and calling it a disability ....actually i think they are doing that allready and for being a certain skin colour and for being pregnant and for having a relative that might have a disabilty ? ? or is this just ppl abusing the system ? well if what some ppl say in this thread its there for the taking then take it, dont worry about the morals just suck it up, well it must be right then.

[les_taxi]

whilst i was doing some work in a brand new property near the wiltshire downs, a young girl and her friend were there with a young baby, as it was a new build I joked "for a new house you would think they would throw in a house Number" the house number was writen on a bit of paper and stuck to the door, she said yeah my mum had to do that, I asked if she would mind telling me how much they paid for it ? " I dunno" she said " its free ent it cuz I got a baby"
Saying that if its there you should take it doesnt make it right, benifit should be available for a limited time then withdrawn with an option to except conscript to one of the services, not just army ect but police,fire,ambulance or any other govt. run body.
makes me feel ill when ppl support the idea of well if your no bettr of working then why do it ? ? hummm because its coming out of my pocket ! ! !
next thing you know they will be giving disable parking pass to fat ppl and calling it a disability ....actually i think they are doing that allready and for being a certain skin colour and for being pregnant and for having a relative that might have a disabilty ? ? or is this just ppl abusing the system ? well if what some ppl say in this thread its there for the taking then take it, dont worry about the morals just suck it up, well it must be right then.

I see it all the time as i have said before best carreer move for a 17 year old is get pregnent,you will get everything free while the rest of us pay for it

[joebloggs]

whilst i was doing some work in a brand new property near the wiltshire downs, a young girl and her friend were there with a young baby, as it was a new build I joked "for a new house you would think they would throw in a house Number" the house number was writen on a bit of paper and stuck to the door, she said yeah my mum had to do that, I asked if she would mind telling me how much they paid for it ? " I dunno" she said " its free ent it cuz I got a baby"
Saying that if its there you should take it doesnt make it right, benifit should be available for a limited time then withdrawn with an option to except conscript to one of the services, not just army ect but police,fire,ambulance or any other govt. run body.
makes me feel ill when ppl support the idea of well if your no bettr of working then why do it ? ? hummm because its coming out of my pocket ! ! !
next thing you know they will be giving disable parking pass to fat ppl and calling it a disability ....actually i think they are doing that allready and for being a certain skin colour and for being pregnant and for having a relative that might have a disabilty ? ? or is this just ppl abusing the system ? well if what some ppl say in this thread its there for the taking then take it, dont worry about the morals just suck it up, well it must be right then.

get the father of the baby to pay the rent

i went to the housing office, and while i was waiting i'd seen 3 young girls, 2 of them under 18 and they had to wait for a social worker to sit in on the interview, another girl came with her mom, they were all claiming to be homeless you dont even need a baby
because of their age they are priority cases, and i would have thought in many cases your right, why be at home with your parents when you can have your own place paid for by the tax payer

[gWaPito]

I know where you are coming from Laurel. I too worked as a self employed back in the early 90's I didnt enjoy it for one moment. I was so fearful of running out of work, it got to the stage I was working 7 days a week and being on call constant. In the end I went back to my employer. So Laurel, I feel for you ! Win 2 Win said You can only blame the welfare system Which to a point that is true but, we must also look at ourselves as well, I dont believe unemployed breeds unemployed. For example it runs in families It may in some But I know some who's kids have turned out the opposite of those lay about parents. My Dad God rest his soul was for most of his life was a heavy drinker and gambler My brother is a heavy drinker Me, im the opposite. In fact there actions turned me away from that life. Im sure it is the same for those kids from unemployed homes. Anyway What do I know ah

[junior02]

ive read most of the comments on this. and i no a lot of brits out of work, and they dont have big tvs, computers and holidays 2 expensive countries like rp etc, from what they can save from ther dole money. 1 of the big problems is letting the eu countries mainly from eastern europe enter uk freely as that brings the salary down(me for 1 in construction it use to be quality now its quantitiy control) as most eastern europe are getting more working in construction and farms than they would get as a doctor or policeman in ther countries, and the big fat bosses here are making more profit, as they no wat the wage is in ther homeland. also the eastearn europeans no how to milk the system the same as the long term brit unemployed, and also commit a lot of crime in uk, just read the papers. and wat the uk goverment needs to do is stop eu migration, and offer the the lower paid jobs to the brit unemployed and if they dont take the jobs(until they fined somthing better) then cut ther benefits, and it would also stop the fat uk bosses taking advantage of lower paid eu countries, then maybe they will start to pay a deasant wage to us brits, and if they dont we could all stick together like the french do, and go on strike. in my opinion its wrong we let these people into uk. all countries entering uk should have a visa and produce bank statements etc, and if they have a job offer here, the employer needs to prove ther is no brit able to do the job. and if your british and say ther is no work out ther, that will be rubbish as ther then would be work out ther, even if its not your line of work and lower pay than what your use to, just do it until something better comes along. letting eu members entering uk without a visa makes it harder for the people that require a visa to enter uk, and it can only get harder in the future for people that need a visa to enter uk from outside the EU...

[fred]

Junior..Everything you say makes perfect sense but those that run the UK are not listening anymore..They couldn't give a **** about you..or me and now its too late anyway.

I was in the building game (finishing trades) for about 25 years which like you say.."used to be quality"..
To think,I used to love going up to London as that's where the good money was!! Now its the LAST place I would work.
These days Brit builders with mortgages and families to support have new competition!!!!..People with no mortgages and no families in the UK or any wish to spend their money within the British economy..
They get boxes of polish sausages sent to them from Poland and live 4 men to a room...Of course they can work for much less than the average Brit builder!! I dont blame them BTW..If I were in their situation I would be in the UK too...In a flash! Working and sending my cash back to my home country where that kind of cash has so much value.
My best mate is Polish and he has been saying for years that the UK is doomed now the flood gates are open..He thinks Britain must be mad.
He has since left and lives in Malaysia and I left and now live here.
Where we lived in the south east,we sold our house and decided to go into private accommodation before our move here.. Even with a large bank balance we had a nightmare dealing with local agents trying to get a place..Wouldn't entertain us unless we paid 150 quid so they could search our credit records..
I told them I would pay 8 months up front (at 800.00 Quid a month) but they were not interested..Still had to pay the 150.00.
I have no idea how people trying to get their first place manage to do so without going homeless and throwing themselves on their local council and pleading for help!!
a one bedroom private flat in Hitchin goes for about 800/1000 per month...Not much good when you are being paid a little over a fiver an hour.. Poor buggers! Probably better off on benefits if the truth is told.
Anyway.. Enough of this subject...Giving me a migraine!!

[stevewool]

end of the day if you are in work great, just watch the billd and dont take out to much credit, it takes ages to be able to think i am ok , but are we if work did stop my god what do you do

[gWaPito]

I agree with you Fred and Steve. Giving me a head ache too. what drives me to be honest is the fear of not having work. even that short time back in 81 out of work is truely ingrained in my head. i can never see me retired. You can say im the opposite Im addicted to work Im not sure which is worse ?

[fred]

Gwapito..IMO you have to be smart and save whatever you can afford to and then make a plan to invest for future years with the cash...I know.. its not easy but with determination you can get to the point where you eventually have new options other than panicking about lack of work..Set small doable targets and make sure you hit them..Then set another one.
Self confidence and opportunities go haywire once you can do that.
My accountant warned me years ago not to put too much into a private pension as the returns are not always good value..Buying Property medium to long term seemed to be the best idea and thats what we still do to this day..
Keep on truckin!!

[gWaPito]

Fred I hear what you are saying and its all good advice. Im may be foolishly trying to make back all the thousands of pounds I lost through my own stupitity. Dont get me wrong, we still got a good life compared to a great many out there but, it really does eat into me (sometimes) that life could be a lot easier if I had not messed up. Jane and I both agree if it had not been for our past lives, we would not be here together now. She is right, of course. Our aim is/was to go live in the Phil withing 5 years. In hindsight this may be too soon now we have a Baby on the way. has for income, we will use our house here in Swindon for rental. That will be our back bone. I never been short of work Fred Its just I know as a child what its like to be broke Philippines style.

[stevewool]

i think many many of us who are here would not be if our past life worked, i had dreams then but alas they have disappeared, but i have this new life and dreams again , it takes time to start again and again like many its starting from scratch, make plans and do try to stick to them ,its hard but life is as hard as you want it to be, i think you gwapito and i are very similar in our past and our dreams, a hard start but all the better for how we are now in life, good luck my friend

[gWaPito]

I was thinking the same We do sound alike. hey Jane and I go back to Phil on your Wedding weekend I will be thinking of you both while in the sky. well done Steve. We both have much to be grateful for We know that. So Onwards and upwards we go !. No I would not change a thing. its what we are today and who we are with today all because of our past. So rejoice! Good luck Steve Wool

[jane2009]

Hi,
I know i dont have the right to complain but i've just notice that british government is not strict enough...I just notice alot of worker here from the different country they can invite their family and allowed to worked aswell and they were free for NHS...Im not being rude but i think its to much...Coz in the states the worker can only invite their husband/wife and kids but they are not allowed to worked or get any benefits from the government....just my opinion....

[stevewool]

well thats what is great about here , we all have a opinion and can voice it too , this goverment is to generous to many

[joebloggs]

Hi,
I know i dont have the right to complain but i've just notice that british government is not enough strict...I just notice alot of worker here from the different country they can invite their family and allowed to worked aswell and they were free for NHS...Im not being rude but i think its to much...Coz in the states the worker can only invite their husband/wife and kids but they are not allowed to worked or get any benefits from the government....just my opinion....

that depends on what visa they have, but usually dependants are free to work, in fact in most cases the dependant can do what ever job they like and what hours

so the one who has the visa, they become dependant on the dependant

[JimOttley]

I have had recourse to benefits twice in my life.

Before, I think 1980 , the law allowed a student to sign on during term breaks, I would not have qualified for Unemployment Benefit if I had not previously worked but luckily I got my first job a few days after I turned 16. At the time the benefit rate was around 14 pounds a week for a single person, I was living with my parents and while it was not a fortune it was pretty good and made things a lot easier during the breaks between terms particularly during the summer

There was a rule that allowed those who had qualified once for Unemployment Benefit to carry forward the entitlement if they signed on again within 14 weeks which meant a student could carry entitlement all the way through their study years, if they signed on every term break.

To inject a bit of levity into a serious discussion, I have always used my own measure of inflation and it is one that is pertinent to those living a miserable life on the dole, my measure is "Beer Inflation" In 1975 a pint of beer in Scotland was between 22 and 25 pence, so on 14 pounds a week I could pay for my fare to Arran (4 quid) stay there from Thursday till Monday evening, go home sign on on Tuesday and have my Giro cheque on Thursday morning and be back off to sunny Arran (1976 was a wonderful summer) again. My Giro was enough to have a good few beers, some ciggies (I smoked back then) and reasonable food, I lived in a tent on a bit of public ground, had a great time and I was a good enough pool player that I could get by when the cash ran out by playing for beers

Using the "Beer Inflation" scale and given that an average cheap beer in a cheap pub costs about £2.50 now, then the lucky single guy on the dole should be on about 10 times 14 quid today i.e. 140 quid a week, if benefit had kept up with inflation. As we all know it hasn't and the lucky recipient of modern benefits gets 65 quid a week and a requirement to prove they are seeking work after a very short period on benefit.

The second time I had to claim was 1993 when I was out of work for 8 months for various reasons. It was much much harder that time compared to when I was a kid and also much more humiliating, as you get older and have a career it is quite hard to listen to someone telling you that if you can't quickly find a job in your primary line of work that you will have to take anything that comes along. Not likely to look great on a CV when your work history says "Developed Scottish Financial Budgeting system for the Scottish Office" and the next entry is "199x to 199x plus 1, worked in Burger King", that didn't happen to me but I came close.

All of us live in fear of being out of work these days and I promise you even before the cuts that are coming it is not fun to live on the dole. There are genuinely work shy people in this world, they do exist, I knew one guy, one of my best friends, a very very smart intelligent man who only ever had a couple of short jobs after dropping out of Uni in 1977-78. He spent his entire life unemployed going on one government training course after another, he had a chip on his shoulder and he was definitely at fault he could have worked but he didn't really want to, he always found a way to turn down any chance of real work, I even tried to get him into Software Development at one time but he managed to turn that down chance as well.

Anyway he paid the price for that, he died in 2007 unemployed aged 49 from pneumonia (life long smoker of rollups), single and alone as his fiancée had given up on him and left him about 8 years before, she had even given him the chance to become part of her family business but that offended his pride and he turned that down as well. His friends, including me, did him great disservice by helping him out and regularly and buying him beer in the pub, it didn't help him and certainly did not encourage him into employment.

So yes there are real work shy people in the UK but they pay a price for it, long term unemployment equals reduced life expectancy and the quality of the life they have is poor. My friend lived in the same council house all of his life, he was lucky it was a nice council house in our town not one of the terrifying council estates like Easterhouse used to be, or some of the poorer bits of my home town.

Is a free house in hell something to be desired? I think not, if you are single and male you will be lucky if you ever get a council house and at least in Scotland if you did you probably ended up on the 13th floor of a building with paper thin walls non functional elevators and some very anti social neighbours.

Having been there a couple of times, life on the dole, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, is a pretty terrifying experience and it is something that personally terrifies me. The purchasing value of the benefit is a fraction of what it once was and will never get better, most people that are about to be unemployed in the near future don't want to be, they will be forced into the situation by the cuts and they will be stuck as they will often have been higher earners, getting a bit older, employers will not want them because they see them as desiring higher pay or as being less flexible and thus a lot of people in their late 40's early to mid 50's will get trapped in lifelong unemployment, written off because the economy is unable to recover fast enough to provide them with the opportunities in their own area's of expertise and then trapped because no one wants them in the more menial jobs that do happen to be available.

In the Phils you get written off if you are over 30 and don't have a degree or some kind of business of your own, it won't be long before it's like that here too.

One last thing, for those of us that are old enough to remember, the primary reason for Europe is to bring us all together to stop the wars that ruined the first half of the last century, we pay a price for that but we get a lot in return, always remember free movement works both ways we have the freedom to work anywhere in Europe too, that might become a valuable right in the not to distant future.

I have been to Poland on business many times in the last 18 months and yes it is true that it is a poor country but things are changing there and chances are that a lot of poles may find their opportunities are better back home in the next few years. The guys we deal with over there are software developers and they are some of the best paid people in Poland we sub out work to them because they are about one quarter the price of the equivalent Brit and they are every bit as educated as the equivalent Brit in many cases more so, right now they have that advantage, in five years time they will be competing on merit not on price, all markets change over time, the European job market will change as well, I for one don't want a return to closed borders as I might end up being the one who wants to sell my skills abroad in Europe in a few years time.

[Rosie1958]

An excellent post, Jim ...... I'd like to give you Rep but I am not yet worthy to do so. Well written anyway

[fred]

I agree Rosie..Very interesting and easy to understand due to the beer inflation calculations..
I wish we could do all math equations like that... I`d be a mathmatical genius in about 1 week flat.
I will give him rep on your behalf.

[fred]

Jim...
Im really sorry about this .. I added to your reputation for the post above but the system decided to deduct it instead..
I have no idea how this can be remedied but will ask around.