An insult to decency

[johncar54]

How many were arrested under the Public Order Act for Inciting Racial Hatred ?

The British have always been sufficiently confident in themselves that they have never felt the need to make laws against people insulting them. For example there is no offence of burning the national flag (often incorrectly called the Union Jack). We are confident enough not to need such a law. Nationalities that are less confident in themselves have such laws, USA for example.

Burning poppies is not, per se, inciting racial hatred against the British. In fact it is more likely to have the reverse effect i.e. that those burning the poppies will inspire racial hatred against themselves.

I hope subscribers refrain from being side-tracked into making, what maybe, racially hateful remarks here, which may be more likely to qualify as 'inspiring racial hatred' than the actions of the poppy burning inadequates.

[Dedworth]

The British have always been sufficiently confident in themselves that they have never felt the need to make laws against people insulting them. For example there is no offence of burning the national flag (often incorrectly called the Union Jack). We are confident enough not to need such a law. Nationalities that are less confident in themselves have such laws, USA for example.

Burning poppies is not, per se, inciting racial hatred against the British. In fact it is more likely to have the reverse effect i.e. that those burning the poppies will inspire racial hatred against themselves.

I hope subscribers refrain from being side-tracked into making, what maybe, racially hateful remarks here, which may be more likely to qualify as 'inspiring racial hatred' than the actions of the poppy burning inadequates.

Times have changed for the worse and it is time to bring in legislation.The Police currently are either too lily livered or hung up on political correctness to deal with these vermin - contrast this with the other days goings on outside Tory HQ where the Met are having an immediate enquiry with no doubt suspects being identified and charged from video footage.

[johncar54]

Times have changed for the worse and it is time to bring in legislation.The Police currently are either too lily livered or hung up on political correctness to deal with these vermin - contrast this with the other days goings on outside Tory HQ where the Met are having an immediate enquiry with no doubt suspects being identified and charged from video footage.

Dedworth what law did they break by burning the poppies. Nothing springs immediately to me. If they did not then the police have nothing to do.

For those who like to think the police should 'do something' when there is an occurrence which that person does not agree with. Just recall the outcry when a 'Newspaper seller' was pushed by the police when they were policing a riotous demonstrative in London.

In the recent student demo I suspect that the need to not over spend may have influenced the police when they were deciding how many officers to have on stand-by. If there had been no disturbance, that officer might have been criticised for over-staffing, at a time when all public services are being cut back. The police are frequently in a no win situation.

As for changing the law: I personally don't think that a few stupid acts by extremists should cause us to have a knee-jerk reaction. If we did then they win !

[Manila_Paul]

As for changing the law: I personally don't think that a few stupid acts by extremists should cause us to have a knee-jerk reaction. If we did then they win !

Yes, the thing with giving the state power to censor is that they eventually end up censoring people you agree with.

For this reason I was also all for Nick Griffin going on Question Time. Could not understand the upset about that at all. This said, whilst these people have a right to freedom of speech, they also should have to accept the potential physical consquences of what they say. You can't just keep poking someone in the balls and then cry wolf when you get a reaction.

[Dedworth]

This said, whilst these people have a right to freedom of speech, they also should have to accept the potential physical consquences of what they say. You can't just keep poking someone in the balls and then cry wolf when you get a reaction.

An old college friends brother is ex 3 Para and currently in 2 REP French Foreign Legion - I hate to think what would happen if he and his pals were sufficiently enraged.

[johncar54]

An old college friends brother is ex 3 Para and currently in 2 REP French Foreign Legion - I hate to think what would happen if he and his pals were sufficiently enraged.

Ok Dedworth now you have presented a straightforward situation. Had your friends attacked the demonstrators they would have committed an offence.

Not so unreasonable when you think about it.

It would be quite wrong if I were allowed to break the law because I believe the UK had no right to invade the sovereign countries of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our boys should not be there, in my opinion, but that does not give me any right to attack those who think otherwise.

[Dedworth]

Ok Dedworth now you have presented a straightforward situation. Had your friends attacked the demonstrators they would have committed an offence.

Not so unreasonable when you think about it.

It would be quite wrong if I were allowed to break the law because I believe the UK had no right to invade the sovereign countries of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our boys should not be there, in my opinion, but that does not give me any right to attack those who think otherwise.

Read my post John I said my friends brother and I was imagining how he might react if pushed over the edge.

This is not just an insult to those who served and died in the two conflicts you quote it is a sickening slur on all those who gave their lives since 1914 to ensure we have the freedom we enjoy today. Those who curse and abuse that freedom should face the full force of the law.

If a similarly obscene minority demonstration happened in Spain - how would the Guardia Civil handle it ? Boots, water cannon and night sticks would be the order of the day I suspect

[les_taxi]

Dedworth what law did they break by burning the poppies. Nothing springs immediately to me. If they did not then the police have nothing to do.

For those who like to think the police should 'do something' when there is an occurrence which that person does not agree with. Just recall the outcry when a 'Newspaper seller' was pushed by the police when they were policing a riotous demonstrative in London.

In the recent student demo I suspect that the need to not over spend may have influenced the police when they were deciding how many officers to have on stand-by. If there had been no disturbance, that officer might have been criticised for over-staffing, at a time when all public services are being cut back. The police are frequently in a no win situation.

As for changing the law: I personally don't think that a few stupid acts by extremists should cause us to have a knee-jerk reaction. If we did then they win !

It's a bloody insult to our fallen hero's, nation and public,it's incitement at the very least.

Did you not see the signs and hear what they were saying?

Tell me John you think that's ok?

Also tell me what would happen if I stand on a soap box in Karachi and say Mohammed is a ******,I would be executed simple as that.

I am pleased to say most people in this country are appalled by what they did and rightly so

One last point where are the decent Muslims calling for these nutters to stop,I'm sure there were some standing nearby but I did not see anyone of them say we don't agree with this.

[Dedworth]

Dedworth what law did they break by burning the poppies. Nothing springs immediately to me. If they did not then the police have nothing to do.

I'd start with Treason but more likely the charges laid after the Mohammed Cartoon Danish Embassy Demo would do for me - inciting racial hatred and soliciting murder - sentences of 4 - 6 years were given.

After disrupting a troops homecoming parade 5 pieces of trash were convicted in Luton in January 2010 with using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.............. the handwringing Luton Magistrates gave them 2 year conditional discharges and awarded costs against them.

[johncar54]

I'd start with Treason but more likely the charges laid after the Mohammed Cartoon Danish Embassy Demo would do for me - inciting racial hatred and soliciting murder - sentences of 4 - 6 years were given.

After disrupting a troops homecoming parade 5 pieces of trash were convicted in Luton in January 2010 with using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.............. the handwringing Luton Magistrates gave them 2 year conditional discharges and awarded costs against them.

Can I suggest you look up treason? As I understand the facts here this not treason.

The placards in the photos, I do not believe amount to any offence, unless maybe behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace. A very minor offence, and akin to the 'sledgehammer and the nut.'

As I said I cannot think any substantive offence.

It maybe that the demonstrators took legal advice to ensure they could not be prosecuted. The childhood rhyme 'sticks and stones' comes to mind. As suggest here, as UK has free speech people demonstrating that right, should be ignored if we do not agree with what they are saying. Or we could turn UK into a country where the police decide who can do what: If that ever happened, I would be even more glad I live in Spain and have recently taken up my right to Irish Nationality.

In the other case you refer to. Those concerned did commit a criminal offence and were convicted and sentenced for it.

[Dedworth]

Can I suggest you look up treason? As I understand the facts here this not treason.

The placards in the photos, I do not believe amount to any offence, unless maybe behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace. A very minor offence, and akin to the 'sledgehammer and the nut.'

As I said I cannot think any substantive offence.

It maybe that the demonstrators took legal advice to ensure they could not be prosecuted. The childhood rhyme 'sticks and stones' comes to mind. As suggest here, as UK has free speech people demonstrating that right, should be ignored if we do not agree with what they are saying. Or we could turn UK into a country where the police decide who can do what: If that ever happened, I would be even more glad I live in Spain and have recently taken up my right to Irish Nationality.

In the other case you refer to. Those concerned did commit a criminal offence and were convicted and sentenced for it.

Treason was tongue in cheek unfortunately. I suggest you watch the videos there is clear evidence of racial hatred and obvious intent to cause distress.

Asad Ullah of Muslims Against Crusades said "I have no respect for the silence as it represents the murder of millions of Muslims. By burning the poppy we wanted to upset people and we wanted them to hurt"

Muslims Against Crusaders organiser Abu Rayah, from east London, said: “British soldiers are mass murderers and your politicians are oppressors. By wearing poppies, you condone mass murderers. This protest was for thousands of Muslims killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

[johncar54]

Treason was tounge in cheek unfortunately. I suggest you watch the videos there is clear evidence of racial hatred and obvious intent to cause distress.

Asad Ullah of Muslims Against Crusades said "I have no respect for the silence as it represents the murder of millions of Muslims. By burning the poppy we wanted to upset people and we wanted them to hurt"

Muslims Against Crusaders organiser Abu Rayah, from east London, said: “British soldiers are mass murderers and your politicians are oppressors. By wearing poppies, you condone mass murderers. This protest was for thousands of Muslims killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

Dedworth, Sorry I took your comment as a serious one.

I think I have gone far enough with this. I don't want to go on and on following tangents.