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Thread: West cannot defeat al-Qaeda, says UK forces chief

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    Exclamation West cannot defeat al-Qaeda, says UK forces chief

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11751888

    I think the head of the UK's armed forces knows more than a few people here.


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    Respected Member keithAngel's Avatar
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    a winning point Apo silence is golden

    or perhaps everyone else is ignoring you now
    Absit invidia

    DISCLAIMER: The information hereinabove may or may not be entirely accurate, relevant, forthright, verifiable, or coherent. KeithAngel, who shall herein be refered to as the 'Shining Beacon of Light', reserves the right to neither confirm, deny, justify, explain, or otherwise acknowledge any inquiry in regards to the validity, genuinity, construction, intent, and/or motive of any statements, gestures, and/or actions whether real, imagined, or transdimensional in origin. Further, the 'Shining Beacon of Light' shall be absolved of any and all legal, moral, and financial responsibilities for damages to life, limb, character, reputation, property, and/or business resulting from the usage, assimilation, incorporation, replication, and/or distribution of said statements whether partial, complete, misquoted, or imagined. This disclaimer remains in effect despite any discrepancies or claims as to its legibility, comprehension, interpretation, subliminal suggestiveness, political affiliation, legality, visibility, and/or physical presence


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    Quote Originally Posted by keithAngel View Post
    a winning point Apo silence is golden

    or perhaps everyone else is ignoring you now
    I hope so, but they can't really argue about the source of this story
    If they do, they'll be peeling spuds for 3 days


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    Respected Member bornatbirth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aposhark View Post
    I hope so, but they can't really argue about the source of this story
    If they do, they'll be peeling spuds for 3 days
    yep you win
    i have learnt to do what my wife says!


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    Moderator joebloggs's Avatar
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    so whats the answer aposhark ?

    Britain has lost 343 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.
    they are all some ones sons or brothers

    you think talking will solve it ?

    You can lead a horse to water, but, a pencil must be lead. -Stan Laurel
    http://www.filipinouk.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=870&dateline=1270312908


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    Trusted Member sars_notd_virus's Avatar
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    West cannot defeat al-Qaeda, says UK forces chief

    Of course they got ''Hidden Agenda''
    ''Don't be serious..Be Sincere''


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    Quote Originally Posted by joebloggs View Post
    so whats the answer aposhark ?

    Britain has lost 343 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.
    they are all some ones sons or brothers

    you think talking will solve it ?

    You can lead a horse to water, but, a pencil must be lead. -Stan Laurel
    Bring our troops home.
    A terrible loss of life on all sides and for no real gain
    Many Afghani civilians killed too; they are all someone's family members also, Joe.

    What a shambles 1511082 (No).gif

    Get the Arab league / Afghani's / Pakistani's / G20 to talk at length with the U.N. and involve all parties and stop the killing
    Wars are very expensive, the G20 know about this.

    Off the top of my head, the main issues:

    1. Palestinians/Jews
    2. Afghanistan
    3. Iraq

    Negotiate, yes Joe, for as long as it takes until there is a settlement.

    What the hell do all these governments/diplomats do?

    Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate.
    ~ John F. Kennedy


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    They'll keep up the fight as long as the CIA/Other secret agencies want to syphon off the cream from the opium crop for other under the radar activities, and keep employment levels high in US arms/munitions companies


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    Respected Member subseastu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Englishman2010 View Post
    They'll keep up the fight as long as the CIA/Other secret agencies want to syphon off the cream from the opium crop for other under the radar activities, and keep employment levels high in US arms/munitions companies
    Sounds like another vietnam to me
    It's been emontional


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    Quote Originally Posted by subseastu View Post
    Sounds like another vietnam to me
    It is, but politically (in the US) it's better for the US to stay there, and my guess is they will be there for at least another 5 years, maybe 10, and during that time they won't have achieved anything other than keeping hundreds of thousands of US defence manufacturing workers in jobs. There must be a bigger picture here? the war isn't just about stopping Taliban training camps training up Jihadists to go to the US and detonate bombs. There are training camps all over the lawless states of East Africa and the Horn of Africa, but the US haven't declared war on Somalia, Eritrea, The Sudan, Ethiopia, Tanzania or Kenya yet?


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    Quote Originally Posted by subseastu View Post
    Sounds like another vietnam to me
    "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
    - Robert S. McNamara
    -----------------------------------------
    "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
    We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
    - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"



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    Quote Originally Posted by aposhark View Post
    "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
    - Robert S. McNamara
    -----------------------------------------
    "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
    We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
    - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"

    The problem is that NATO forces usually comply with the accepted rules of engagement, whereas the enemy doesnt. If NATO wants to win the war it needs to use tactics that aren't accepted, and of course as soon as it does everyone condemns them. There is a plus side to America getting bogged down in Afghanistan, which is whilst they are stuck there, they can't realistically contemplate attacking Iran. I somehow doubt that war would be limited to just conventional weapons


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    Quote Originally Posted by Englishman2010 View Post
    The problem is that NATO forces usually comply with the accepted rules of engagement, whereas the enemy doesnt. If NATO wants to win the war it needs to use tactics that aren't accepted, and of course as soon as it does everyone condemns them. There is a plus side to America getting bogged down in Afghanistan, which is whilst they are stuck there, they can't realistically contemplate attacking Iran. I somehow doubt that war would be limited to just conventional weapons
    The gloves should be off in Afghanistan, no liberal rules of engagement we need a shoot to kill policy. Its the only language the Taliban understand. IED's are the biggest threat to the Allied forces, any locals who come up positive after being swabbed for explosives shouldn't be set free as often seems to be the case but summarily tried.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedworth View Post
    The gloves should be off in Afghanistan, no liberal rules of engagement we need a shoot to kill policy. Its the only language the Taliban understand. IED's are the biggest threat to the Allied forces, any locals who come up positive after being swabbed for explosives shouldn't be set free as often seems to be the case but summarily tried.
    I can't imagine the Soviet Army complied with the rules of engagement to the same extent that the Allied Forces have, and they ended up pulling out because they knew they would never win. Nuking the mountainous parts/Pakistan borders where the Taliban are hiding out would be the quickest and most effective way to deal with them, but that would cause worldwide outrage and store up more resentment for future generations of Jihadists ( with 2 heads and six legs) . The thing is, we do have Nukes but probably wouldn't use them, wheras the Taliban would love to have them and if they did would have no hesitation in using a Nuke in a crowded western city.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Englishman2010 View Post
    I can't imagine the Soviet Army complied with the rules of engagement to the same extent that the Allied Forces have, and they ended up pulling out because they knew they would never win. Nuking the mountainous parts/Pakistan borders where the Taliban are hiding out would be the quickest and most effective way to deal with them, but that would cause worldwide outrage and store up more resentment for future generations of Jihadists ( with 2 heads and six legs) . The thing is, we do have Nukes but probably wouldn't use them, wheras the Taliban would love to have them and if they did would have no hesitation in using a Nuke in a crowded western city.
    I think there are quite a few differences that make comparison tricky

    Soviets invaded & occupied the whole country 30 years ago

    Allied weaponry now more sophisticated eg Predator, Smart Bombs etc

    Soviets didn't have the satellite capability now available

    Mujahideen did have relatively smart CIA supplied stinger missiles which hurt Soviet Heli and air support

    If I'm not mistaken parts of Afghanistan are almost peaceful with little or no Taliban activity

    The "democratic" Govt although not popular doesn't have the whole populace galvanised against it

    My solution is a full on military approach, shoot to kill,gloves off, hands no longer behind the back. Introduction of detention camps and fortified villages. Defoliation of the poppy fields local growers/farmers paid a realistic wage as compensation, nothing for the dross further along the supply chain as they are all either Taliban, Corrupt Officials or Criminals - they sink. This should allow some sort of stability to return allowing introduction of a hearts and mind policy. Similar worked in Malaya in the 1950's.


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    Respected Member beppe's Avatar
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    Money talks, money walks. The Afghanistan war is important to USA economy, around 2 million servicemen, contractors dealing with Pentagon should employ 4 to 5 million people.

    USA has interest in the south Caucasus republics rich of oil, for they want build a pipeline from north to south Afghanistan. Bush and Cheney have ties and interests with oil companies.

    The same applies to Iraq war, oil is the main reason.


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    Let's hope the people of the USA lose interest in the wars as they did with Vietnam.

    It just takes so many years to do this, and in the meantime many people get killed for ultimately no political gain, like Vietnam.

    Talks should begin asap as, whether we like it or not, the Muslim faith is strong and without borders and continuing resentment will only cause more western civilian deaths by retaliatory actions.

    If the UK forces chief says we cannot defeat al-Queda we should face up to reality.


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    A stand can be made against an army
    No stand can be made against an idea
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