Help and advice - prenups

[rogedavi]

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone can offer me some advice for the best way to proceed.

To give you some background Im 27 and from the UK. I met my gf 18 months ago in the Philippines and we've been engaged for a year now and have a 3 month old son. We have been living a long distance for the past year as I came back to the UK for work. I go out there on average every 3 months to see them and we talk every day. I came on the site over a year ago and asked with my fiance being 19 at the time the advice i was given was to wait until she was 21 for visas. I plan to bring them over when she turns 21 in August next year so I need to set plans in motion and thats why Im here seeking advice.

I want to get married to her but I personally believe marriage is a trap and would prefer not to if possible (this would be the case if she was British citizen anyway). However I feel i have no choice because we wont get a visa otherwise. Although I do trust her, Im super scared of this because Im wealthy and hence bringing quite a lot to the table. At the end of the day, things may look rosy now, but 2,5,10 years down the line things could be very different and although Im not saying that will happen, I would rather not lose half of my accumulated wealth over it if things dont turn out as hoped. Im not looking for advice on whether or not i should be marrying, but the best ways to protect myself when I do.

My thoughts are to get a pre-nup. Has anyone got any information on this? Should I get one in the UK or in Philippines? I plan to get married in the Philippines in Spring.
Are there other types of marriage contract available in the Philippines (or in the UK) that allow for legal partnership with seperation of wealth from the outset (I know this is possible in Switzerland for instance). Any advice would be much appreciated.


My second question surrounds getting the visa for herself and my son. Would it be unwise to apply BEFORE she turns 21? How long does the process take? Do I need to get my son a UK passport?


Im sure I will be on the site regularly over the next few months.


Thankyou for your great work
DAvid

[stevewool]

hi there how rich are you then, millions , thousands, or just rich in life, i was also once wondering about a prenup, but i am so happy i did not do it , my wife i trust with my life, she is my world and i want for nothing , i understand what you are saying i really do , but if she is the one for you then what is yours is hers good luck in what you deside

[rogedavi]

i subscribe to the same "whats mine is yours" principle when the relationship is working but if it breaks downs for whatever reason I can guarantee you wont want to (and she will!)

over 50 years the statistical survival probability of any relationship/marriage is going to be no more than 20% (that a guess btw that i think is fairly optimistic) so an insurance policy/contingency plan is a must have if you stand to lose a lot in my opinion

[Terpe]

Hi David, welcome back to the forum.

Firstly, for a spouse visa the applicant must be at least 21
anything less will be refusal.
The process will likely be approx 6 weeks (+ or - whatever at that time)
from time of application.
Get your son a UK passport before application. Sorry don't know how long
that would take, maybe 2 or 3 weeks.
Your wife will also need to pass an English language test before application.

Take a look here for details:-
http://www.vfs-uk-ph.com/applying.aspx

I would suggest early review to be sure you get all your 'ducks lined up'

Regarding pre-nups, this is complex, even in UK and more especially so with children.
Let me say, my own personal opinion is quite opposite to yours,
but nevertheless I will provide some feedback for your consideration later since you have asked a valid question.

What are your intentions regarding support for your son and any additional future children in the event of a marriage breakdown??
How do you envisage making provision for them?

[rogedavi]

Thanks, Win2Win...

Any suggestions on a good (and not too expensive!) solicitor in London!

[rogedavi]

Hi Terpe,

Thankyou for your reply. I wouldnt be going down the line of marriage if i didnt think it could work. Im just very conscious of losing half of my accumulated assets and I think its very prudent to protect myself.

In my mind a pre-nup has advantages for both parties. On my side, thats obvious. On her side, I want her to have some assurances that she and more importantly, my son, would be looked after if we did split.

My thought would be to offer say 500p/m and another 250p/m per child. Im making a commitment to her and my children so that should see them provided for. Im not sure if that figure is right its just off the top of my head.

Would it be ratified under UK law if I had it drew up by a UK or Philippines lawyer?

[KeithD]

Needs to be drawn up and agreed by a solicitor in the UK.

[KeithD]

It shouldn't cost much anyway. DIY http://www.lawpack.co.uk/cohabitation/product1688.asp

[bornatbirth]

would you even think of marriage if you didnt have a child together, if you loved someone then you would trust her

i guess finding a forum on pre-nups or use the link above

[grahamw48]

I think you'll find that in reality pre-nups have no legal standing either in the UK or the Phils,
but a good solicitor is the best person to ask.

What you could do is set up a trust fund for your children, but as far as getting married goes, why bother if you are so cynical about it ?

(Not saying you're wrong to be cynical )

[RickyR]

At the present time 'Prenumptual Agreements' are not legally binding under UK law. They 'may' be taken into consideration by a judge during divorce procedings, however all current legislation overides the agreement.
There are plans for Prenumptual Agreements to become legal in the UK, but they won't be a simple and easy way out of avoiding handing over everything. Also they will require your fiance to see an independant solicitor to give her advice on the agreement first.

Without the marriage, you will not be able to apply for a residency visa for your fiance, but you can in the meantime apply for a British Birth Certificate and Passport for your son, which you should do within 12 months of his birth. If you would like to know the procedure for that, I'd be happy to share it here on a seperate thread, as I've just been through that.

[rogedavi]

Hi RickyR...

I would very much like to know the process as i plan to do this asap

Thnks

At the present time 'Prenumptual Agreements' are not legally binding under UK law. They 'may' be taken into consideration by a judge during divorce procedings, however all current legislation overides the agreement.
There are plans for Prenumptual Agreements to become legal in the UK, but they won't be a simple and easy way out of avoiding handing over everything. Also they will require your fiance to see an independant solicitor to give her advice on the agreement first.

Without the marriage, you will not be able to apply for a residency visa for your fiance, but you can in the meantime apply for a British Birth Certificate and Passport for your son, which you should do within 12 months of his birth. If you would like to know the procedure for that, I'd be happy to share it here on a seperate thread, as I've just been through that.

[KeithD]

The last test case a few months ago on prenups in the courts accepted that they are now binding.

[mickcant]

Hi David,
As a man who id divorcing his wfe as she married me only for a visa and money, I think your plan is correct.
As you say giving all when in love can and does turn sour.
Mick.

[sars_notd_virus]

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone can offer me some advice for the best way to proceed.

My thoughts are to get a pre-nup. Has anyone got any information on this? Should I get one in the UK or in Philippines? I plan to get married in the Philippines in Spring.
Are there other types of marriage contract available in the Philippines (or in the UK) that allow for legal partnership with seperation of wealth from the outset (I know this is possible in Switzerland for instance). Any advice would be much appreciated.

hello rogedavi!!
pre-nuptial agreement is not a bad idea so, go for it ,...
although currently prenuptial agreement in the UK has no legal standing am sure in the future it will be.
my advice is to get one(prenup) from the uk and one (prenup) from the philippines before you get married...it will not cost you too much as it was just a form of legal agreement between you and your spouse to be and will take effect immediately upon the solemnization of parties' marriage.

goodluck!!!

[Arthur Little]

David, I have absolutely no experience of divorce ... but I do feel you're being a tad cynical about marriage. You really need to be sure it's what you WANT before taking the plunge! No offence intended.

[mickcant]

David, I have absolutely no experience of divorce ... but I do feel you're being a tad cynical about marriage. You really need to be sure it's what you WANT before taking the plunge! No offence intended.

Hi David,
I am unfortunately on divorce no 3!

First marriage lasted 26 years, I married I thought for life, I then divorced her as she was having affairs, one with my so called best mate.
We did not have much money to fight over but I could not afford to keep my home either.

Marriage no 2 lasted 9 years, we parted because of problems with my step children
They never took to me and saw me as a threat to their inheritance, so a pre nup might have helped us with that, but the wife always took her children’s side so that finished that.

Marriage no 3 was to a Filipina in 2008, I loved her a lot, but it turned out she married me only for what money she could get and a ticket to the UK to work and the visa.
We are now divorcing.

There is no money to fight over she has allready had it one way or anouther.

Mick.

[johncar54]

We married in 2006. We did a Pre Nup in Manila with a solicitor recommended by a long standing friend who had worked in Manila for a multinational company. The solicitor appeared to be 'good.' He took great care to explain to my wife-to-be what she was signing away. At the time I thought he did this to well ! But my wife-to-be had no objections to signing it.

I discovered later that at that time Pre Nups were just about worthless in UK. I discovered later that in Spain where we live, a spouse has no right to claim on pre marriage assets.

So how did it work out so far ?

My wife is at present in Phil where she has bought a building plot (I paid) and she is looking around to buy a house (I will pay). I guess I paid the solicitor for nothing.

The only thing that I would say is that if a wife-to-be is happy to sign, after a lawyer has explained in great detail that she is agreeing that she does not have any claim on her husband-to-be's assets, she probably is not in it for your cash. Unless of course you are very rich and she is a lot smarter than the lawyer !

[grahamw48]

Hmm yes.

My EX-wife owns land and buildings in the Phils that either she inherited or I/we paid for.

I own sod all there.

[johncar54]

Hmm yes.

My EX-wife owns land and buildings in the Phils that either she inherited or I/we paid for.

I own sod all there.

Sorry Graham, I guess we can't all be lucky every time.

[NotYou]

My first Pinay g/f (who was marred to a German gentleman) signed a pre-nup with Helmut. As expected when it came to the divorce her solicitor roundly pooh-poohed the pre-nup arguing she was coerced into signing a document in a language she did not understand. Such an easy defence, I suspect it could be applied all round.

[johncar54]

My first Pinay g/f (who was marred to a German gentleman) signed a pre-nup with Helmut. As expected when it came to the divorce her solicitor roundly pooh-poohed the pre-nup arguing she was coerced into signing a document in a language she did not understand. Such an easy defence, I suspect it could be applied all round.

As I said, in our case my wife signed the agreement in Manila, with a solicitor who explained in great detail in English and Tagalog, on I think three separate occasions, exactly what she was agreeing to. Had she subsequently questioned the agreement the solicitor could have given evidence that she understood fully before she signed.

The problem in UK, unless changed since, is that as long as a judge says he has considered the agreement he is then free to ignore it. Thus it was just about worthless.

[sheena lahive]

I am from a BBC1 debate show and we are doing a debate this Sunday 16th January 2011 where we are discussing the benefits of prenuptial agreements. We are looking for someone who either has had a prenuptial agreement or is looking to get a prenuptial agreement and thinks they can be good for a marriage.

Please call me on 0141 422 6232 or 07954 991953

Many thanks

Sheena Lahive
Assistant Producer
BBC1 The Big Questions

[grahamw48]

Hmm, let's hope it isn't the usual politically-correct lefty feminist nonsense, with a representative from every possible minority group on the planet strategically placed in the audience, along with a bunch of Chinese tourists who happened to be passing by.

[mindanao]

Go guys.........be on the TV and we gonna watch ..

[grahamw48]

My boy has been on three of those Sunday morning shows, from when they filmed them in York.