Filipino UK health - what's the difference ?

[Doc Alan]

Life expectancy at birth is 71 years in Philippines ( males 68, females 74) and 80 years in the UK (males 78, females 82). It's one measure of quality of life.
Now the number 1 cause of death in Philippines is the same as UK - cardiovascular disease, mainly heart attacks. Number 2 in both countries is cancer. Until 30 years ago infections were more common in the Philippines.
Easy access to relatively cheap cigarettes with more smokers is one factor influencing number 1 + 2 in Philippines.
Increasing fat intake, salty food, obesity, diabetes and high cholesterol contribute to the changing pattern of health in Philippines, as in the UK.
However, fewer filipinos have regular medical examinations, which would diagnose high blood pressure, raised cholesterol and diabetes early.
As for cancer, there is low prevention awareness in Philippines. In UK we have screening for prostate, cervical, breast and bowel cancer, with a vaccination offered to teenage girls to prevent cervical cancer.
Cancer survival rates are lower in Philippines because filipinos tend to seek medical help too late, only spending money (if they can afford it) on chemotherapy / radiotherapy for incurable cancers. UK survivals are better, although worse than many similar countries in the world. The types of cancer are also different ( lung is common in both countries). Liver cancer is, for example, commoner in Philippines because of hepatitis B and C.
Accidents are relatively commoner in Philippines - whether on the roads or due to natural disasters like typhoons.
Infections are still more important in Philippines than UK. Tuberculosis has been estimated to kill 75 filipinos /day - despite having childhood BCG, filipinos may still acquire TB, ignore their symptoms, spreading the infection , and delaying antibiotic treatment. Other types of pneumonia are also commoner.
Chronic lung disease due to smoking is common in both countries.
Infant mortality rate is higher in the Philippines compared to its south-east Asian neighbours and certainly the UK. Sepsis and prematurity are factors, and better prenatal care would help.
Clearly we have the UK National Health Service, imperfect as it may be. Costs for treatment, as with insurance, in the Philippines are rising. My thread is not intended to be judgemental, only an attempt to explain the differences between our two countries. Read the disclaimer on this section of the forum !

[Terpe]

Lot of information there Doc.
Thanks for your time and effort

This was quite a surprise for me:-
Life expectancy at birth is 71 years in Philippines ( males 68, females 74) and 80 years in the UK (males 78, females 82).

[KeithD]

Women always statistically outlive men, probably more to do with the live fast die young attitude of men, plus we know best when we are ill ..... not that I ever do that .... you only have to visit an old peoples home and count the ratio of men to women..... or maybe it's the case that nagging makes you live longer

[baby38]

To be honest in my village the oldest male was 52,he died 2 years later,the women feared better,her auntie was 87 the other auntie was 77 her mum 67,even the men said to me they happy if they live to 50,there is a high rate of high blood pressure and diabetes,and off course medication very expensive ,u go into a drug store there they buy medication 1 0r 2 tablets at a time when they can afford it,where we buy a month supply at a time,sure some children die soon after birth.

[Terpe]

Women always statistically outlive men, probably more to do with the live fast die young attitude of men, plus we know best when we are ill ..... not that I ever do that .... you only have to visit an old peoples home and count the ratio of men to women..... or maybe it's the case that nagging makes you live longer

Women are fitter and stronger due to carrying heavy shopping, cases of beer, running up and down stairs and having a free work-out doing washing, ironing, vacuuming etc.

[Steve.r]

Informative post Alan, thank you.

[Terpe]

One of the key differences, for me, is that of cost.
In the Philippines you need to pay for medical treatment with hard earned cash.
In that position, we would all look at our budget and make choices based on priorities.

Here is UK we are very lucky, we can visit the doctor for a consultation or treatment anytime we want. We do not need to make any budgetary prioritisation.

[baby38]

You are right Terpe,women here in Australia women live longer by far, being a taxi driver picking elderly up from rest homes very rarely I get a man over the age of 80,many women over the age of 90.
And to be honest doc I been to the phills 7 times visited many places there,very rarely I see a man over 60 see more women but not many,so to be honest,where are they getting the statics from.
The men drink a lot especially rum,it around 80% proof,they drink it straight,followed by a little water,a 750ml bottle of rum about $1.25 au the same here in Australia about $32.they smoke a lot,a packet of 20 around 15 peso a packet that's around 40 cents a packet here in Australia,we pay now $11.
Also doc in the Phills lots of food very salty or very sweet food,you take their bread I cant eat its to sweet.And more eating fast foods.

[Terpe]

...Also doc in the Phills lots of food very salty or very sweet food,you take their bread I cant eat its to sweet.And more eating fast foods.

Yep, salty foods in Phils. Wow, just unbelievable. I have to be so careful.
Even with fruits, there will be a small dish with salt. Dip the mouthful size piece of fruit into the salt then eat it Argggg!

[joebloggs]

of course major difference is pera
my wife working in the Uk can send a patient for any test which might help make a diagnosis without the patient needing to worry about paying for it, but in the phils the tests done depend on the persons ability to pay

[Doc Alan]

I'm "heartened" at the responses so far, it's a serious topic, requiring some thought. In this case I've tried to make it factually correct, while also offering opinions based on what I've read and people have told me.
Obviously there's a realistic limit to the length of a thread - it takes more time to write less - but in so doing, there may be omissions !

[Terpe]

Maybe some members here will remember that my wife had to make an unplanned emergency visit to Phils last September when her brother
passed away.
He had a lot of medical problems and we had supported him medically for about 3-4 weeks prior to his passing.
This post is going to raise some important and potentially controversial issues.
I sincerely hope nobody will be offended, but let me state right away I make no apology.

So here goes.
The doctors who treated my bro-in-law (and there were a lot!) ALL knew that he was terminal.
Yet they continued to 'send' him for numerous tests. They continued to call upon specialists in this, that and the other.

All this activity really impacted on my bro in his final days, how many times he said he was hurting and in pain, how many times he said he was tired, how many times he just wanted to rest, and in his own words, go to a better place.
How many times he was not allowed to eat or drink because of tests.
Yet ALL the doctors knew he was terminal.
Why so many doctors, why so many tests, why so many procedures, why so many medications, why so much precious time with family curtailed.
Let me tell you why. MONEY
Can you ever imagine intelligent, educated DOCTORS will do that for MONEY
My bro lived in a small village in the province. When he was first taken really seriously he was taken by tricycle to the local hospital. His friend ran for 2km to find one.
That hospital had no air-con, no clean bedsheets, no medicine to treat him and no senior doctor on duty. Not even a dextrose drip!
BTW there was no food or drinks. That's for family to provide.
It took us 3 days to get him moved to Davao, the nearest big city with good hospital facilities.
Why? because the local hospital had only two ambulances. One was completely broken the other needed some new brakes and by the way needed some petrol in the tank. Yep, you got it, we paid for all reapirs and the petrol, with extra to work overnight, just to give him a decent chance. MONEY
The wife's family could not afford it and could not raise enough money fast enough. So everyone relied on the speed of transactions for remittances from UK. MONEY

The hospital would not release my bro to travel to another hospital unless we agreed that a qualifiied 'watcher' would accompany him. Means a nurse or doctor to be by his side during the transfer. Why?? MONEY
They would not release him for transfer by taxi. Why MONEY

What makes me say that? Well ,there was no medicine or useful working equipment in the ambulance so whats that all about then. MONEY
How I wish I could really write a moving story to brings tears to your eyes.
I just can't seem to convey enough emotion into these words.

I've got tears in my eyes as I type this. I just wish you could all understand. The feeling of hopelessness.

My God, it really tears you apart when you understand how very easy it is to realise that without MONEY and by just living in the wrong place, this country called Philippines can easily be the last of you.

Can you ever imagine that intelligent, educated, and compassionate people like DOCTORS will do all that for MONEY?
Can you ever imagine that intelligent, educated, and compassionate people like DOCTORS and hospital administrators will CHEAT you and your dying beloved family. For MONEY
YES BELIEVE IT
NOW protect yourselves and your family.
This is a third world country with many issues

[imagine]

Terpe, what an impact

[somebody]

Terpe so true that post.

Even in the US I belive due to the different set up where cash and insurance is king.

It has its benefits more tests are done and procedures are insisted on which can sometimes be useful even if really there as a cash exercise. But in Blighty its the other way round fighting to get tests done often although saying that im often suprised how many tests are done which seem a bit unlikely and possibly costly on the rare times i visit the doctors..

Salt intake has to be the biggest issue for me with the typical phill diet..

We have been sending over low sodium salt costly but for the benefits it might have worth it. We are also sending over tins if we can with low sugar and low fat or healthier options.

At first I fault extra salt etc would be added but I think after some family scares many in the family are graetful for the low sodium/fat/sugar products and for some the special diabetic products have been much apprceated!

Sadly many in phill do not find out they have diabetes so early on. If your thirsty in phill its not an unusal feeling...

[mikey73]

I've got tears in my eyes as I type this. I just wish you could all understand. The feeling of hopelessness.

My God, it really tears you apart when you understand how very easy it is to realise that without MONEY and by just living in the wrong place, this country called Philippines can easily be the last of you.

hi terpe
afraid i cant fully understand the feeling of hopelesness that can be felt but i know my mahal has felt it. her father was ill and needed medical help but they(her family) couldnt afford for him to get the the tests, treatment and operation that he needed. as a last option she asked me to help her help her dad. i know during the time that he was sick (it seemed to take quite a while for him to get treated) she was upset, and worried about him. i know that they would have really struggled to get the money to help him if i hadnt help my mahal (and father in law to be) and that he would still be in pain and ill now. i really do worry about her parents as they are getting older (her father is 68) and myself and my mahal might not always be able to afford the medical treatment needed.

[Doc Alan]

Of course I for one am not offended at Terpe's post. Being retired almost 4 years (after 35 years working in UK and Malaysia) I can take an interest in health matters, and possibly explain, without necessarily defending, how illness is diagnosed and treated in the UK compared to the Philippines.
It was completely alien to me, working in diagnostic medicine, to be constrained by cost where tests were needed for an accurate diagnosis and hence the best treatment. Certain antibodies to prove the type of cancer, for example, can be very expensive, but essential. Almost all of my work was for the NHS or Universities, not private. How I would have hated the knowledge that the patient or relative(s) had to pay direct - either if they couldn't afford it, OR if they could, with the temptation to charge for unnecessary investigations.
Terpe has simply expanded, with dramatic impact, on what I said in the start to this thread.
Many doctors in the UK, trustworthy in my opinion, have doubts about the planned radical reforms of our NHS. That's a whole separate topic. However, accepting the NHS needs to be more cost-effective, many GPs do not wish to manage budgets in addition to caring for patients. Doctors can't be unaware and immune to the cost of screening, diagnosis and treatment. But an NHS required to compete for patients against other providers is to my mind one step too far. Health can NEVER be treated like other items in an open market place. It's easy to "cherry pick" conditions like hernias and removing simple skin lesions. But for serious illnesses the management of patients MUST be free at the point of delivery. Medical audit should ensure best practice, NOT the ability (or otherwise) to pay. That is a fundamental explanation for the differences in life expectancy between our two countries.

[Sim11UK]

The Philippines is touting for Business, with new Medical Tourist Visas.
Had you heard about this Alan?

http://www.asiaone.com/Health/News/S...20-259216.html

[JimOttley]

Jeez why don't they just offer 6 months to all first world tourists, it's not like they are going to hurt their ecomony

[malditako]

Maybe some members here will remember that my wife had to make an unplanned emergency visit to Phils last September when her bother
passed away.
He had a lot of medical problems and we had supported him medically for about 3-4 weeks prior to his passing.
This post is going to raise some important and potentially controversial issues.
I sincerely hope nobody will be offended, but let me state right away I make no apology.

So here goes.
The doctors who treated my bro-in-law (and there were a lot!) ALL knew that he was terminal.
Yet they continued to 'send' him for numerous tests. They continued to call upon specialists in this, that and the other.

All this activity really impacted on my bro in his final days, how many times he said he was hurting and in pain, how many times he said he was tired, how many times he just wanted to rest, and in his own words, go to a better place.
How many times he was not allowed to eat or drink because of tests.
Yet ALL the doctors knew he was terminal.
Why so many doctors, why so many tests, why so many procedures, why so many medications, why so much precious time with family curtailed.
Let me tell you why. MONEY
Can you ever imagine intelligent, educated DOCTORS will do that for MONEY
My bro lived in a small village in the province. When he was first taken really seriously he was taken by tricycle to the local hospital. His friend ran for 2km to find one.
That hospital had no air-con, no clean bedsheets, no medicine to treat him and no senior doctor on duty. Not even a dextrose drip!
BTW there was no food or drinks. That's for family to provide.
It took us 3 days to get him moved to Davao, the nearest big city with good hospital facilities.
Why? because the local hospital had only two ambulances. One was completely broken the other needed some new brakes and by the way needed some petrol in the tank. Yep, you got it, we paid for all reapirs and the petrol, with extra to work overnight, just to give him a decent chance. MONEY
The wife's family could not afford it and could not raise enough money fast enough. So everyone relied on the speed of transactions for remittances from UK. MONEY

The hospital would not release my bro to travel to another hospital unless we agreed that a qualifiied 'watcher' would accompany him. Means a nurse or doctor to be by his side during the transfer. Why?? MONEY
They would not release him for transfer by taxi. Why MONEY

What makes me say that? Well ,there was no medicine or useful working equipment in the ambulance so whats that all about then. MONEY
How I wish I could really write a moving story to brings tears to your eyes.
I just can't seem to convey enough emotion into these words.

I've got tears in my eyes as I type this. I just wish you could all understand. The feeling of hopelessness.

My God, it really tears you apart when you understand how very easy it is to realise that without MONEY and by just living in the wrong place, this country called Philippines can easily be the last of you.

Can you ever imagine that intelligent, educated, and compassionate people like DOCTORS will do all that for MONEY?
Can you ever imagine that intelligent, educated, and compassionate people like DOCTORS and hospital administrators will CHEAT you and your dying beloved family. For MONEY
YES BELIEVE IT
NOW protect yourselves and your family.
This is a third world country with many issues

sorry about this bad experience....this is a great information as well that if u live in the province in phils..u would hardly see a decent hospitals and health centers

my uncle died from colon cancer last 2007...it was on advance stage we were told that he can go on treatments but gave us no hope that he would live longer than 6 months....but then we say we wouldn't let my uncles life to pass without a fight so we give him the treatments he may be needed...he passed away after 6 months.

asking the doctor about the possibilities would be vital but some filipinos dont do that due to lack of knowledge and education...but then again we have to realized that filipinos never lose any hope till the last breath

[mickcant]

Thanks Terpe,

I have never botherd with any form of health insurance during my visits to the Philippines, I now concider myself lucky that nothing happened that could have ended with me needing hospital treatment.

We need to be aware of what can happen.
Mick.

[purple]

I agree with gparry. We filipinos tend to show that we care even though hope is not there for the patient or relative.

My only uncle passed away last year due to diabetes. Even though he asked to be taken to the doctor that day when I visited him but I just comforted him by saying to accept the fact that he lived merrily by indulging himself with foods and drinks he loved most (sweets, salty foods, rum and he smokes). After 12 hours he passed away.

It is also this concept of "Bahala Na!" that many filipinos would just go with the way they want to eat and feel. It is sad, but I don't think lack of education and knowledge about what is right and bad to eat being not given is not true. It is of a common sense that too much of everything is not good for the body.

[Doc Alan]

The Philippines is touting for Business, with new Medical Tourist Visas.
Had you heard about this Alan?

It may improve the economy but not the health of most filipinos. It is not the answer to improving the host nation's health.
Health tourism is a lucrative business, both in Europe and Asia, but it should have several health warnings.
* All medical and dental procedures have a degree of risk. Informed consent should be obtained from doctors who speak good English.
* Full medical assessment is essential. Any pre-existing medical conditions should be known, and insurance obtained, in UK first.
* The 6 month visa might not be long enough if things go wrong. Corrective surgery or other treatment may be needed, either in the private hospital, or after return to the UK. Emergency treatment would be free in the UK, but not further cosmetic surgery.
* Doctors and other health care workers are covered by insurance in the UK whether for NHS or private work. Is there a complaints procedure, and what are the chances of negligence claims, abroad ?
* There may be unwanted souvenirs ! India has an antibiotic-resistant superbug now.

[Doc Alan]

I fully understand what Grace and Rohany say about the filipino culture and concept of "bahala na", and appreciate your input ! But all the faith and support of family and friends, not to mention money, will not cure these diseases when they're advanced.
Both diabetes and bowel cancer are classic examples of common illnesses both in UK and Philippines where early diagnosis and treatment will save lives ! Treatment of both at an early stage is less expensive (however it is paid for), and more effective. Simple tests can be carried out for diabetes, and now in the UK we have a bowel cancer screening programme for those most at risk. But even without screening, awareness of early symptoms and attending the doctor could save illness and your life.

[keithAngel]

I fully understand what Grace and Rohany say about the filipino culture and concept of "bahala na", and appreciate your input ! But all the faith and support of family and friends, not to mention money, will not cure these diseases when they're advanced.
Both diabetes and bowel cancer are classic examples of common illnesses both in UK and Philippines where early diagnosis and treatment will save lives ! Treatment of both at an early stage is less expensive (however it is paid for), and more effective. Simple tests can be carried out for diabetes, and now in the UK we have a bowel cancer screening programme for those most at risk. But even without screening, awareness of early symptoms and attending the doctor could save illness and your life.

Thats very true Alan but of course tricky to do when your extended family may be living on 1-200 pounds a month for a dozen people rice on the table becomes the priority and preventive medicine like mechanics servicing the vehicle befor it breaks is unheard of for the vast majority.

A friend here had 8 days in hospital and a bill for 3k for some minor knee surgery following a motorbike tumble thats 3 years income for a family here.

Terpe your story was heartfelt and it occured to me that to be conected to the Philipines by relationship means for almost all of us, one day measuring someones life by our ability or willingness to pay and or say no.

Ive had a small entre in a public hospital where the childrens ward had 10 sick mostly dehydrated kids on ripped plastic covered foam and no sheets all medicines and food need someone to purchase them on the streets outside We spent £50 in 3 days on medicines and this was a reletavily easy case

[joebloggs]

I sincerely hope nobody will be offended, but let me state right away I make no apology.

So here goes.
The doctors who treated my bro-in-law (and there were a lot!) ALL knew that he was terminal.

sorry to hear about your brother in law,
but if everyone knew he was terminal why go for the tests? why not take him home ?

[Terpe]

sorry to hear about your brother in law,
but if everyone knew he was terminal why go for the tests? why not take him home ?

Don't want to hi-jack this thread by going into all the details.
But quite simply, the income stream stops when the source is no longer available.

[Terpe]

Don't want to hi-jack this thread by going into all the details.
But quite simply, the income stream stops when the source is no longer available.

From a family perspective other posts have indicated Philippine thinking.
Physically removing the patient from the hospital requires funding. Also the family will always move towards hope. No-one in the family will be the one to take responsibility to oppose the doctors.

[bornatbirth]

now my wife lives in the uk, will she get to live longer

[Terpe]

now my wife lives in the uk, will she get to live longer

Well, as Doc has said, there are many prevantative schemes operating.
Visits to the Dentist, GP or hospital do not require budgetary prioritisation.

With all other things being equal, the statistics speak volumes.

[Arthur Little]

A friend here had 8 days in hospital and a bill for 3k for some minor knee surgery following a motorbike tumble thats 3 years income for a family here.

Slightly ... but would I be correct in my assumption that the friend you're talking about here was Al? If so, no wonder he's facing financial constraints in trying to bring Hana across!