you see nothing wrong with it
reading this thread is very depressing and i find it strange that so many posting here are so young and sound like my grumpy old grandfather who arthur thinks must be a very wise old man...to bad nobody cried at his funeral.
btw who exactly is allowed to post in this thread
it maybe best to close this thread before we all get over excited
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
Wow we are reaching censorship now on this forum.
Right let's all talk about flowers and pretty colours now
it would be better than reading the offensive rubbish posted in this thread by many who should know betterOriginally Posted by lestaxi1
Right let's all talk about flowers and pretty colours now
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
How did you ever become a mod?
The only thing offensive was the preachers of hate and child beaters which this post highlighted,Maybe try reading the thread you may learn something
Exactly.Wow we are reaching censorship now on this forum.
Right let's all talk about flowers and pretty colours now
...and someone's grandad is the benchmark by which we are to be judged.
I'm off.
I could never get on with the Guardian A lot of words all amounting to the thing Utter rubbish. Jim Otley Nice poem I agree with Mr Burns too! All brothers together. But what if some of our brothers come here and dont want to play ball? This is the essence of Ded's thread. Some of these teachers are grooming these kids to hate us. Is this right? How about the conditions on getting a British Passport Surely it says we all got to rumble nicely together? Ok not in those words but similar.
Maybe you should explain!it would be better than reading the offensive rubbish posted in this thread by many who should know better
i have learned what men of a certain age really think and even some younger, im really surprised by the views from many of the posts in this thread by many of the long term members and this isHow did you ever become a mod?
The only thing offensive was the preachers of hate and child beaters which this post highlighted,Maybe try reading the thread you may learn something
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
I think a lot of us on here as you point out, many in fact! do not agree with you so I'm afraid your privileged position as a mod does not give you a right to dictate to us how we feel right now if you were up for election I feel you would loose your deposit.
You are taking the view that as you do not agree with people on here as mod you are right we are wrong
Would you all speak to each other like this if you were face to face? Treat people on here as you would in public, and also this is my forum, treat it as if you are in my home ..... that's with respect if you can't figure it out.
Keith - Administrator
come on guys, lets all go for a vindaloo
How very interesting Til Death do us part was brought up. Of course we were laughing at him That was the object
i have just gone through this thread and you know what its boring after a while talk about going round in circles, yes we may like in a bad place but if its that bad move, yes we can say what we want and nothing gets done about it , again as long as yourself and others around you are fine then realy who gives a jot,like i have said before, my family is my concern first and will always be that way,usualy the rest of the world takes care of itself, someone said on here about not reading papers and watching to much tv , well i do that and you know what i am a little more happy,
FactCheck: Enoch Powell's 1968 speech
By Channel 4 News Updated on 07 April 2008
Forty years ago, Conservative politician Enoch Powell made one of the most controversial speeches in British history - and effectively ended his political career.
The 'Rivers of Blood' speech outlined his fears at the numbers of immigrants coming into Britain, and their impact on society as he knew it.
FactCheck looks at some of the claims in his speech, and how they compared to the wider picture then and now.
All quotes are from Enoch Powell's speech to the Conservative Association meeting in Birmingham, 20 April 1968.
The elderly widow
"'Eight years ago in a respectable street in Wolverhampton a house was sold to a Negro. Now only one white (a woman old-age pensioner) lives there. This is her story...'"
Powell tells the story, which he quoted from a letter, of one of his constituents - a widow whose sons had died in the war. The unidentified woman had taken boarders in at her seven-bed house, but gradually her white tenants had left, and she refused to let rooms to immigrants.
Powell recounted how "negroes" abused her at 7am when she refused to let them use her phone. "She is becoming afraid to go out," quoted Powell. "Windows are broken. She finds excreta pushed through her letterbox."
The emotive tale touched a nerve, but who was the woman? Powell steadfastly refused to identify her, writing to a Labour MP: "I never disclose ... particulars likely to assist in the identification of constituents ... whose cases I may use to illustrate circumstances."
When grilled on television in January 1969 by David Frost, Powell was repeatedly asked whether he had verified the story. He deflected the questions, saying instead that he had "verified the source" and hadn't the slightest doubt the story was true, and typical.
Had Powell got his facts right or could he have fallen prey to National Front propaganda?
So had Powell got his facts right or could he have fallen prey to National Front propaganda? Local and national press at the time tried to track down the elderly widow, but to no avail.
Last year, the Radio 4 programme Document enlisted a historian to help sift through the paper trail. They narrowed it down to around 200 women who matched criteria such as having lived in the same street for years, being widowed during the war.
The search narrowed down to one woman: Drucilla Cotterill, a homeowner in Brighton Place, then aged 68, who had been taking in lodgers for some years.
Most of the pieces fit, although Cotterill didn't match up completely: she didn't have a telephone, or lose sons during the war.
The BBC interviewed former child residents of Brighton Place, who remembered excrement being put through a letterbox, and a dead dog being put through a window. However, other evidence suggested that things were far more friendly.
"It is hard to know exactly what his constituents were saying to him at the time," said Robert Pearce, a former professor of modern history and author of Enoch Powell, a biography out later this year. "But if it were a real person, it seems unlikely that it was all accurate."
Party policy?
"The answers to the simple and rational question are equally simple and rational: by stopping, or virtually stopping, further inflow, and by promoting the maximum outflow. Both answers are part of the official policy of the Conservative party."
Although some quarters of the party welcomed Powell's speech, he took things a fair jump further than the official party line in calling for the "maximum outflow" of immigrants.
As the 1966 election manifesto shows, moves to allow immigrants to go back were strictly voluntary: the party would, it said, "help immigrants already here to rejoin their families in their countries of origin, or to return with their families to these countries, if they so wish".
As party leader Edward Heath in his statement on Powell's dismissal from the shadow cabinet:
"I have repeatedly emphasised that the policy of the Conservative party is that immigration must be most strictly limited and that immigrants wishing to return to their own countries should be financially helped to do so. But everyone already in the country must be treated as equal before the law."
Migration numbers
"In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this country three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure. That is the official figure given to parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General's Office."
As we'll see in the next claim, if anything Powell seems to have underestimated the numbers of immigrants that would come to Britain. But at the time, his three and a half million figure was the kind of dubious statistical representation that gets FactCheck's calculator burning.
As Bill Smithies and Peter Fiddick pointed out in a 1969 analysis of Powell's speech, the 3.5 million estimate was given in a parliamentary answer to the anti-immigration MP Sir Cyril Osborne.
He had asked in June 1967 for the government's estimate of the present and likely future coloured population of Britain if the current rate of immigration and immigrant fertility continued - both of which were unlikely to happen owing to newly imposed controls on immigration, and because fertility rates were expected to decline as an immigrant group got more settled and grew older.
Still, on this basis, the government gave estimates of one million in 1966, 1.75 million in 1975 and 3.5 million in 1985, although these needed to be taken with caution.
If anything Powell seems to have underestimated the numbers of immigrants that would come to Britain.
According to official statistics, it's estimated that 472,500 new Commonwealth immigrants entered Britain between 1955 and 1962, when Commonwealth citizens became subject to immigration control and counting procedures were tightened up. There were then around Commonwealth 60,000 immigrants a year throughout the sixties.
In 1968, there were a total of 84,470 immigrants in 1968, 64,380 of them from the Commonwealth. In 1969, the number declined to 48,090; in 1970, 42,380, before peaking at 72,510 (when laws changed).
"There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one-tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London."
Never mind dependants born in the UK: according to 2001 census data, 4.9 million of the UK's population was born overseas, more than double the 2.1 million in 1951.
The decade up to 2001 saw the biggest increase in the post-war years in foreign-born population: 1.1 million, nearly double the 600,000 increase between 1961 and 1971.
However, the majority of immigrants nowadays come from Europe, rather than the Commonwealth. And what Powell didn't anticipate was the rise in short-stay migration: just over a third of foreign-born migrants who came to the UK in the nineties left the country within four years of arrival.
According to the 2001 census, 87 per cent, or around seven in eight, of England's population described their ethnicity as white British.
Rivers of blood
"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood'."
Just as no one in Casablanca actually says "Play it again, Sam," this is the closest the "Rivers of Blood" speech actually gets to its common title. What's the story behind the line that cemented Powell's reputation for racist rhetoric?
Powell is quoting a prophecy from Virgil's Aeneid, a Roman epic telling the mythological tale of the founding of Rome.
On arriving in Italy after many trials and tribulations, the Trojan warrior Aeneas consults a priestess, the Sibyl, to find out how his plans to create the new empire will turn out.
Her reply includes the line quoted by Powell: she tells Aeneas that in the process of creating Rome, she saw wars and the River Tiber foaming with blood.
'If it was any old person, you might think they'd just picked a line they liked the sound of and used it, but Powell was one of the best classicists of the twentieth century ... He'd have been well aware of the meaning of the line.'
Mary Beard, professor of classics at the University of Cambridge
"She was saying that you're going to found a multicultural, cosmopolitan state - and in the eyes of the Romans, Rome was the greatest civilisation - but it will be a painful process," said Mary Beard, professor of classics at the University of Cambridge.
Could this suggest a slightly more measured view of immigration - which may bring necessary problems in order to achieve a greater end - than the rest of Powell's speech?
There are other examples of rivers being used in Roman literature as a metaphor for mixed nationalities, giving the idea of a flood of new people coming in - although Powell's quote comes specifically from the Aeneid.
"If it was any old person, you might think they'd just picked a line they liked the sound of and used it, but Powell was one of the best classicists of the twentieth century," said Beard. "He'd have been well aware of the meaning of the line."
Either way, any nuances of the Latin were lost on Powell's audience.
I used to work 6 months jobbing (self employed) around the country and then off to various countries for the next 6 months.. After I got married I had about a 50 quid left and had to borrow some money from my Mum to pay the wife's airfare.. I left and went straight back to work painting & decorating trying to get some cash to rent a room before she arrived.. It was a bit tight but managed to get everything sorted for her arrival in the UK..
When she arrived we both went to work..Simple as that.
These days FORGET IT!!!! I`d have no chance.. With cheap labour walking visa free through immigration every day,filling the UK building sites up with cheap labour,I wouldn't stand a chance..
No wonder why the rules for spouce visas have changed..First they have to check if the Brit husband can compete with the crowds of Europeans they let in!!
You couldnt make it up!
noy just the building sites but everywhere, you cannot blame them would you do it if you where in there shoes, i am lucky in a way , yes have bills to pay but with emma here with me and is working too, we are blessed , her money is going into savings to help us get out of here sooner then later
Sorry Apo Just a short response Im just going home. To quote what you quoted Thank you The old lady said they did indeed put there dumps through my letter box along with a dead dog but, they were a friendly lot! With friends like that who need a foe.
Of course I would do it if I were in their shoes!!you cannot blame them would you do it if you where in there shoes,
Id get work wherever I could find it to any country that would let me in..I`d even share a room with 5 others to keep costs down..I`d work like a dog and send everything I earned back to my Mrs and kids..I`d do it for years on end if necessary .
indeed thats what most would do
There was no "old woman" though, that was the point.
Yep, anyone can find work if they really look hard enough and are willing to lower their expectations if it pays the bills.Of course I would do it if I were in their shoes!!
Id get work wherever I could find it to any country that would let me in..I`d even share a room with 5 others to keep costs down..I`d work like a dog and send everything I earned back to my Mrs and kids..I`d do it for years on end if necessary .
The world is full of people who feel they are too good to work their "fingers to the bone".
The immigrants in the UK work very hard and there are many thousands of British people who want easy jobs given to them on a plate.
"KeithAngel said
First D what exactly did you find to be malisious? all i did was made your post reflect the equal horrors of aspiring to a good life but unfortunatly being in Bagdad on that date when the "smart bombs" rained down
For me its all the same no matter if your a family suffering loss there or in London Its also in my view true that past behaviour leads to cause and effect consiquences that indeed may have unfortunate and terrible affects on ordinary folks lives.I could therefor wholeheartedly agree with you as im sure would you with me"
To your first point "In modern usage an aphorism is generally understood to be a concise statement containing a subjective truth or observation cleverly and pithily written."
I note your sense of humour is diferent to mine you might have recognised the basic humanity in the transferance of your words and simply agreed that it was just as valid. Ordinary people dead in Bagdad in the past may well lead to ordinary people dead in London both are equal tradgedy,s
As to your second astute observation spot on (irony) Except I was up a mountain growing my food and finding myself accepted as an imigrant by my kind neihbours
And to quote Fred
"Good old Dom"
Absit invidia
DISCLAIMER: The information hereinabove may or may not be entirely accurate, relevant, forthright, verifiable, or coherent. KeithAngel, who shall herein be refered to as the 'Shining Beacon of Light', reserves the right to neither confirm, deny, justify, explain, or otherwise acknowledge any inquiry in regards to the validity, genuinity, construction, intent, and/or motive of any statements, gestures, and/or actions whether real, imagined, or transdimensional in origin. Further, the 'Shining Beacon of Light' shall be absolved of any and all legal, moral, and financial responsibilities for damages to life, limb, character, reputation, property, and/or business resulting from the usage, assimilation, incorporation, replication, and/or distribution of said statements whether partial, complete, misquoted, or imagined. This disclaimer remains in effect despite any discrepancies or claims as to its legibility, comprehension, interpretation, subliminal suggestiveness, political affiliation, legality, visibility, and/or physical presence
Please consider visitors and newbies to the site who may read this and never return.
Keith - Administrator
And of course consider members who raise a valid point and are lambasted on here for being racist.
It's a shame we can't have a proper debate and to be honest I think that the forum has lost it's freedom of speech element and we are only going to be able to chat about topics that are only"pc".
It's a shame as I have enjoyed my time on here and don't talk about this type of thread all of the time.
Think it's time for me to go everyone.
So Mr Administrator please delete me from your forum and I wish the best to all on here but don't want to feel I'm bringing the forum down.
cheers Les
Lex I get called all sorts of things you and everyone else is entitled to there opinion and to ague there case as vociferously as the Boss and Mods allow
I dont myself see how you can complain about free speech and then want others not to have the same?
Absit invidia
DISCLAIMER: The information hereinabove may or may not be entirely accurate, relevant, forthright, verifiable, or coherent. KeithAngel, who shall herein be refered to as the 'Shining Beacon of Light', reserves the right to neither confirm, deny, justify, explain, or otherwise acknowledge any inquiry in regards to the validity, genuinity, construction, intent, and/or motive of any statements, gestures, and/or actions whether real, imagined, or transdimensional in origin. Further, the 'Shining Beacon of Light' shall be absolved of any and all legal, moral, and financial responsibilities for damages to life, limb, character, reputation, property, and/or business resulting from the usage, assimilation, incorporation, replication, and/or distribution of said statements whether partial, complete, misquoted, or imagined. This disclaimer remains in effect despite any discrepancies or claims as to its legibility, comprehension, interpretation, subliminal suggestiveness, political affiliation, legality, visibility, and/or physical presence
to be honest, posting such a contreversial thread such as this was asking for trouble,
meaning of life, what is, is
move on or i'll send me misses around
and you wouldn't like that
your worse than my 10yr old and 4yr old
I wouldn't call it controversial this type of topic has always been acceptable on "Loose Talk, Chat and Off Topic" - merely a TV Doc that exposed the promotion of extremism and separation that was was going on behind closed doors at a mosque and "faith" school with a bit of child abuse thrown in for good measure. Very shortly the insulting "racist" accusation was thrown in which is the usual response from persons of a certain political persuasion to those calling into question the multicultural dungheap also known as the United Kingdom.
No doubt very few of the contributoers watched the programme in question it is on You Tube and will soon be on http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...s-80/episode-1
Totally wrong I never said people can't say what they want ,bloody hell stuff is made up on here as we go along.Lex I get called all sorts of things you and everyone else is entitled to there opinion and to ague there case as vociferously as the Boss and Mods allow
I dont myself see how you can complain about free speech and then want others not to have the same?
I'm afraid that some of the mods don't read the threads or would not come out with such childish comments.
Anyway leave you all to it.
That is what Dedworth has been doing all along.
He hardly ever posts about anything to do with the Philippines.
I wonder why?
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