News report March 2011.
The murder conviction of James Hanratty, who was hanged 40 years ago protesting his innocence, was today upheld by the Court of Appeal which ruled that DNA evidence established his guilt "beyond doubt".
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1G19UvyDe
do you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
Deterrents:-
When the death penalty was suspended in 1965 the murder rate in UK was around 50 a year, now it is 600 ( and that is excluding manslaughter and serious GBH convictions).,
I would argue that sentences can be deterrents but the problem is that sentences are not deterrents. If they were they would deter and crime would be much lower. Reluctantly I believe that punishments should be increased until the deterrent effect become clear.
In any argument about crime I believe the overwhelming concern should be the protection of the innocent victim not the well-being of the criminal.
A number of people taking part in the commission of a crime are equally guilty of each others actions. So in principle Yes.Originally Posted by bornatbirth
do you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain
However, since then things have changed. In the Craig and Bentley case the mental age of Bentley, would now probably make it unlikely (rightly so in my opinion) that he would hang.
Hanratty's guilt has since been established if I'm not mistaken. But irrespective of whether this is the case or not ... DNA profiling has advanced to the extent where it is more or less guaranteed to prevent miscarriages of justice.Aha... so I was'nt mistaken in my earlier statement about Hanratty!
Good post English man. I differ on your opinion on capital punishment having no effect. You only got to look at the statistics. If you haven't already, watch the film .Pierrepoint'. You won't stop the child killers etc but you will have an effect on those ' casual' robbery killings. You mentioned about no sorrow about the smack head going to the wall, I put it to you how would you feel that junkie being one of yours. Dealers should be treated like mass murderers, with a bullet through the head.
Like what's been pointed out already, with modern technology, it's hardly likely of any miscarriages of justice, unlike in the past. What it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then
ok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what methodLike what's been pointed out already, with modern technology, it's hardly likely of any miscarriages of justice, unlike in the past. What it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
Just because a person is found not guilty or is acquitted on appeal, does not PROVE they are innocent.
If a jury cannot be satisfied beyond all reasonable doubt they must acquit. As I said that does not prove they are innocent nor that they should not have been charged. Often witnesses, for a variety of reasons, change their evidence or the jury just do not believe them. OR maybe an error arises in the prosecution case, in which case the jury must give the accused the benefit of any doubt.
Also be aware that many writers get best-sellers based on a distortion of the facts of a case. Ludovic Kennedy was one such author.
And finally, Timothy Evans admitted killing his baby so whether of not his conviction for killdeer his wife was or was not correct he would have been hanged if he had been acquitted of his wife's murder.
Excellent point GWhat it wants is a few of our law makers to fall foul of these scum, we will see changes then
I can see where you're coming from Gwap, and in some ways it's the most simple solution, but as we live in a so called civilised society and preach its virtues around the world, we also have to be seen to be acting in a civilised way too. There's no easy answer for this and there will always be good arguments and cases put forward on both sides.
And yes, I really have no sympathy at all for drug dealers who get killed by rival gangs or who overdose and die. They know the risks when they get involved in that scene, if you want to dance with the devil, you've got to be prepared to pay the price. Would I feel differently if I knew someone who was invoved? Probably yes
NOdo you think they would still hang bentley in todays britain... not even if Capital Punishment WERE still in existence ... and they shouldn't have done so at the time either!
Bentley (19) was diagnosed with epilepsy following a childhood accident. But ... more than that ... various psychological tests revealed him as being of low intelligence - if not entirely mentally defective - meaning that the words he's alleged to've shouted to his 16-year-old accomplice urging him to "let 'im [the police officer] have it, Chris!" - are open to misinterpretation nearly six decades later. Yet it was on these 5 simple words that the whole trial seemed to hinge. And it was those words that - after only two days - led the jury to convict Bentley.
Now whether he [Bentley] actually uttered the words ... resulting in his co-accused pulling the trigger of the sawn-off shotgun that killed PC Miles is open to conjecture. As is the message he'd been trying to convey to his youthful companion when the latter fired the fatal shot.Could he, for example - in the heat of momentary panic - have been exhorting Christopher Craig to surrender
his weapon to the approaching constable? We shall never know for sure!
Ten years later, in 1963, Craig was released from prison ... and is alive to this day. He claims that scarcely a day passes that he doesn't deeply regret what happened to his friend.
Sadly,Bentley's sister, Iris - who'd campaigned long and hard for her brother Derek to be given a posthumous pardon - didn't live to see it finally being granted in 1998.
As Keith Angel [rightly] points out; "What use is an apology to someone who's dead?" On the other hand, I would continue to maintain that thanks to the emergence of DNA Profiling ... and the tremendous breakthroughs in its indispensible thoroughness in the detection and solving of all sorts of crime ... the chances of a person being wrongly convicted are relatively slim. Unfortunately for Derek Bentley, it arrived half a century too late to save his neck!
Brady & Hindley, the 'Moors Murderers', were classic examples of theok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what methodincarnate! There's not a shadow of doubt
Instead, they deserved to be driven to the quiet spots where their horrific deeds were committed ... and slowly subjected to the selfsame tortures
: and atrocities
THEY'D meted out at each of the remote locations ... then left to die slowly - ALONE and in pain - in similar fashion.
Thankfully, Hindley was never released - despite that old buffoon, Lord Longford's, misguided efforts on her behalf - and ended up dying in captivity. Alas, the best we can hope and
for at this late stage, is that the same miserable fate awaits Brady!
To take another "classic"example the Guidford 4 were all found guilty of Murder in 1975 and would have been hung if the death penalty had existed this apology would have been cold comfort then
On 9 February 2005, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Tony Blair issued an apology to the families of the eleven people imprisoned for the bombings in Guildford and Woolwich, and those related to them who were still alive, by saying, in part: "I am very sorry that they were subject to such an ordeal and injustice... they deserve to be completely and publicly exonerated."[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildfo..._Maguire_Seven
Absit invidia
DISCLAIMER: The information hereinabove may or may not be entirely accurate, relevant, forthright, verifiable, or coherent. KeithAngel, who shall herein be refered to as the 'Shining Beacon of Light', reserves the right to neither confirm, deny, justify, explain, or otherwise acknowledge any inquiry in regards to the validity, genuinity, construction, intent, and/or motive of any statements, gestures, and/or actions whether real, imagined, or transdimensional in origin. Further, the 'Shining Beacon of Light' shall be absolved of any and all legal, moral, and financial responsibilities for damages to life, limb, character, reputation, property, and/or business resulting from the usage, assimilation, incorporation, replication, and/or distribution of said statements whether partial, complete, misquoted, or imagined. This disclaimer remains in effect despite any discrepancies or claims as to its legibility, comprehension, interpretation, subliminal suggestiveness, political affiliation, legality, visibility, and/or physical presence
This is a quote:-
Bentley's conviction was overturned by the Court of Appeal in July last year on the basis that the summing up and direction to the jury of the trial judge Lord Chief Justice Lord Goddard was flawed on several counts, meaning the teenager did not receive a fair trial.
This was part of the explanation why he/his family were not entitled to compensation.
The reality of this is that had the judge not made errors in the summing up, Bentley may still have been found guilty. (I have personal knowledge of a similar case where a error was made by the judge in summing up which resulted in the person being released. Unfortunately he killed another person within 24 hours)
The same applies in other similar cases.
If something is found, maybe years later, which had it been known at the time should have been mentioned, it can lead to a successful appeal, but in no way in such a case does it mean they were proved to be innocent, only that they must be given the benefit of any doubt.
Until fairly recently, a person who was acquitted could not be re-tried, even in extreme cases where people have subsequently written articles or a book, explaining how they committed the crime.
This means that those who would like to show innocent people were convicted cannot use the Bentley, the Guildford, Woolwich or any other similar case, to support their argument .
I am convinced that the number of people, who may have been convicted of murder incorrectly is probably extremely small (although even one is too many) and even in those cases where there was a wrong finding, that the accused were as least to some extent responsible for the miscarriage of justice, for example, by lying their heads off when question.
you mean they sholud blame themselfs, as your a former police officer will you ever admit to there being bent officers who stitched the accused up to further their career
i have learnt to do what my wife says!
What's wrong with the methods of yesteryear. Remember, this status of non capital punishment is a new phenomenon. It was less than 60 years since Ruth Ellis swang by the rope. As for getting volunteer' s to do the deed, it shouldn't cause a problem. The likes of Lord Longford have much to answer for.ok, so you can prove that a person is guilty ...who do you feel you can kill and by what method
I have never denied dishonest police have been arrested and, unfortunately, will continue to be arrested. Mostly they have taken money to help people get off, not to convict innocent people for murder (there may have been such cases, but I can't think of any). They have always been arrested, investigated and prosecuted by police officers (surprisingly, not by people who love to take every opportunity to throw mud at the police).you mean they sholud blame themselfs, as your a former police officer will you ever admit to there being bent officers who stitched the accused up to further their career
Quote: you mean they should blame themselves.
In the cases where they have muddied the waters they are to blame to some extent. As would be those, who falsely confess or are falsely accused by others but whom the police were able to prove should not be charged.
In probably every major investigation people falsely confess and or are falsely accused by others. They of course do not make headlines, thus most people are not aware of it.
we are in the mess we are today due to the liberal left - broken/benefit Britain, failed multiculturalism, muslim extremism, lawlesness and lack of respect. It's all down to the poisonous cocktail of ageing hippies, hand wringing liberals, old and new labourites. I'd happily string the lot of them up.
I agree Ded although the multicultural thing is working in my house. What I don't agree with is the disenfranchisement by some of our extremist fraternity.
Hmm ... the problem with this topic seems to be that many of the people reading/responding [to] it on here, aren't of a generation OLD enough to REMEMBER
You are right I've no probs obviously with our personal multiculturalism, thats our choice but the state multiculturalism that has been imposed on us by the socialists
Or maybe, dare I say, not old enough to see the wheat from the chaff in the 'do gooders' distorted argumentsHmm ... the problem with this topic seems to be that many of the people reading/responding [to] it on here, aren't of a generation OLD enough to REMEMBER
I notice no one has commented on the guilford 4
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DISCLAIMER: The information hereinabove may or may not be entirely accurate, relevant, forthright, verifiable, or coherent. KeithAngel, who shall herein be refered to as the 'Shining Beacon of Light', reserves the right to neither confirm, deny, justify, explain, or otherwise acknowledge any inquiry in regards to the validity, genuinity, construction, intent, and/or motive of any statements, gestures, and/or actions whether real, imagined, or transdimensional in origin. Further, the 'Shining Beacon of Light' shall be absolved of any and all legal, moral, and financial responsibilities for damages to life, limb, character, reputation, property, and/or business resulting from the usage, assimilation, incorporation, replication, and/or distribution of said statements whether partial, complete, misquoted, or imagined. This disclaimer remains in effect despite any discrepancies or claims as to its legibility, comprehension, interpretation, subliminal suggestiveness, political affiliation, legality, visibility, and/or physical presence
Yes Ded
Second most popular country in the world, that's a laugh, obviously its for our climate nothing to do with money for nothing handouts
I don't have any personal knowledge of the Guildford 4, however, I did just find that the success of their appeal appears to have been the result of a police officer discovering what appeared to be a falsification of notes.I notice no one has commented on the guilford 4
Quote:_ In 1989, a detective looking at the case found typed notes from Patrick Armstrong's police interviews, which had been heavily edited. Deletions and additions had been made, and the notes had been rearranged. These notes, and their amendments, were consistent with hand-written and typed notes presented at the trial, which suggested that the hand-written notes were made after the interviews had been conducted. This implied that the police had manipulated the notes to fit with the case they wanted to present.
I know this will sound revolutionary, but I believe suspects should not be cautioned that they need not say anything but the opposite i.e that they are OBLIGED to answer questions and that not doing so will he held against them. In my view the basic rule should be to ensure justice, not some silly game, designed and maintained so that the legal profession can earn huge fees at the expense of 'justice' and the public purse.
...
...... cheap, perhaps. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it "cheerful"!
Nevertheless ...with the view you've expressed in your concluding statement about it's deterrent value!
!
... now it's YOU that's having a laugh, 'sunshine'!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...g-rivalry.html
this story is sickening... A young 16 yr old girl waiting for a pizza in North London gunned down with a sub machine gun fired by another youth at a gang rival.... for christs sake sub machine guns in the hands of 16 year olds on the streets of our Capital!!!! I do not care about the age of the shooter. just leave him tied to a chair in a room with the girls mother for five minutes and see if she feels like being forgiving
Live your life for a reason and don't worry be happy
if you don't know where you are going then any road will do!!
Whats wrong with using the old-fashioned French method? 'Madame La Guillotine' -by what method"heads WILL roll" [literally!] - quick, (fairly) humane ... and extremely effective.
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