that .... cameron .. and his side kicks

[Manila_Paul]

The present Conservative government

Coalition. The Tories haven't won an election in nearly 20 years and if they couldn't beat that the last Labour shambles, then you have to seriously doubt they'll ever win another one.

[KeithD]

Coalition. The Tories haven't won an election in nearly 20 years and if they couldn't beat that the last Labour shambles, then you have to seriously doubt they'll ever win another one.

The Tories WON the election, they decided to enter into a coalition

[Manila_Paul]

The Tories WON the election, they decided to enter into a coalition

Cameron himself said they didn't win! As was also conceded by loads of senior Tories. Being the biggest party clearly does not equal victory under our system. You need a majority to win. I have heard this described as the Tories not 'winning outright' but that doesn't make any sense - as there is nothing short of a majority that is victory under our system. You may as well say the Lib-Dems didn't 'win outright'.

[gWaPito]

I had a neighbour who bought 2 new allegro's on the trot. She bought them out of loyalty to the country.

T hecar was utter crap. I remember her having to mount a curb then the windscreen popped out! This happened on the first one. Still she stayed loyal and kept her garage busy

[KeithD]

Cameron himself said they didn't win! As was also conceded by loads of senior Tories. Being the biggest party clearly does not equal victory under our system. You need a majority to win. I have heard this described as the Tories not 'winning outright' but that doesn't make any sense - as there is nothing short of a majority that is victory under our system. You may as well say the Lib-Dems didn't 'win outright'.

If you get the most votes you WIN it's that simple http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/, they could have run the government themselves, but DECIDED to form a coalition so they had a majority, they did not have to do that. You need a MAJORITY to be able to control parliament, not to WN.

[Manila_Paul]

If you get the most votes you WIN it's that simple http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/, they could have run the government themselves, but DECIDED to form a coalition so they had a majority, they did not have to do that. You need a MAJORITY to be able to control parliament, not to WN.

So let me get this straight: if the Lib-Dems had instead ended up doing a deal with Labour and the Welsh/Scots Nationalists, therefore keeping the Tories in opposition, the Tories would still have won because they won the most seats? Righto. And what would that 'win' have then counted for exactly? Sweet FA, I would have thought.

No, they couldn't have just gone on and 'run the government themselves' on the basis of winning the most seats. The government get the option to continue as a minority one first. Hence why Brown stayed on as PM for a couple of weeks and was under no obligation to resign until someone else could command a majority. If the Tories had won then Brown would have had to resign straight away as he couldn't command a majority anymore.

Anyway, I'm quite happy to qualify the statement as it amounts to exactly the same thing: the Tories haven't won a outright majority in an election for nearly 20 years.

[KeithD]

So let me get this straight.

You made the point that the Tories hadn't WON an election, whereas they won the last one. Party with the most votes WINS, simple as that. Now you've changed the argument to one of forming a government, which is a different subject

[Manila_Paul]

You made the point that the Tories hadn't WON an election, whereas they won the last one. Party with the most votes WINS, simple as that. Now you've changed the argument to one of forming a government, which is a different subject

Why assume 'didn't win' is automatically the same as 'didn't win the most seats'? I just said 'didn't win'. Clearly what I meant was 'didn't win a majority'. I would think most people would take 'didn't win' this way, for the reasons already given. You can hardly ignore the fact that if you haven't got a majority, someone else can form a government.

A quick look at the Tory press on the result:

Cameron didn't win because he was scared of sounding too Tory -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ding-Tory.html

Why the Tories didn't win - http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehou...idnt-win.thtml

So the Daily Mail and Spectator say the Tories 'didn't win'. That is good enough for me!

[branno]

can we talk about pinochet and thatcher instead...

[Manila_Paul]

If you get the most votes you WIN it's that simple http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/, they could have run the government themselves, but DECIDED to form a coalition so they had a majority, they did not have to do that. You need a MAJORITY to be able to control parliament, not to WN.

Doh. Double post.