Court of Appeal allows excrement to remain in UK

[Dedworth]

A government bid to deport a failed asylum seeker who killed a 12-year-old girl in a hit-and-run in Lancashire has been rejected by the Court of Appeal.

Aso Mohammed Ibrahim, an Iraqi Kurd who was banned from driving, left Amy Houston dying under the wheels of his car in Blackburn in 2003.

The 33-year-old was jailed for four months but allowed to remain in the UK, with his family, on his release.

Judges refused an application to appeal against that decision.

It follows a failed appeal by the UK Border Agency, backed by Amy's father Paul, to two immigration judges last year.

Ibrahim was convicted of driving while disqualified and failing to stop after the accident.

He and his wife had two children after his release from prison.

Ibrahim's lawyers have argued human rights laws permit him to stay in the UK, because of his family.
'Greatest sympathy'

Mr Houston, who had to make the decision to turn off Amy's life support machine after the crash, has campaigned for Ibrahim to be deported.

In refusing permission to appeal, Lord Justice Sullivan and Lord Justice Gross expressed their "greatest sympathy" for Amy's family but said their only task was to decide whether there had been any error of law.

They ruled there had not been any error.

After Lord Justice Sullivan gave his reasons for dismissing the application, Mr Houston asked from the public gallery: "My Lord, what about my right to a family life?"

Aso Mohammed Ibrahim Ibrahim was jailed for four months after the crash in 2003

Mr Houston told reporters after the hearing: "I am still waiting for an answer to the question. What about my rights to family life and Amy's right to life?"

He added: "I'm disappointed with the outcome but I always expected it, to be honest.

"The judges had the opportunity to stand up for the hard-working people of this country, the people who pay their wages, and show the world and the country that the Human Rights Act isn't just about asylum seekers, criminals and terrorists but the average man - but they let me down and didn't do that.

"If there's a problem with the law, the law needs changing and the politicians have to start earning their money.

"If there's a problem with the Human Rights Act, they ought to do something about it."


He added: "Me and my daughter are victims in this. If they can't protect the innocent and vulnerable people of society, there's no point in the justice system.

"Maybe there's a possibility of taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights but I'd have to do that personally and it costs a lot of money - money I haven't got."

Immigration Minister Damian Green said after the ruling: "After taking our efforts to remove Mr Ibrahim from the UK to every possible stage of appeal, it is extremely disappointing that we have now been refused permission to have the case heard by the Court of Appeal.

"While we must accept the court's decision, I have every sympathy with Mr Houston, who I know will feel angry and frustrated with this outcome.

"I will be raising the wider issues highlighted by this tragic case with the Justice Secretary for consideration by the commission on UK human rights law which the government will be establishing later this year."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13015824

[Arthur Little]

The 33-year-old was jailed for four months but allowed to remain in the UK, with his family, on his release.

Judges refused an application to appeal against that decision.

It follows a failed appeal by the UK Border Agency, backed by Amy's father Paul, to two immigration judges last year.

In refusing permission to appeal, Lord Justice Sullivan and Lord Justice Gross expressed their "greatest sympathy" for Amy's family but said their only task was to decide whether there had been any error of law.

They ruled there had not been any error.

Unbelievable! For once, words fail me ... , better describes how I feel about this decision. knows what goes on in some of our most senior judges' heads!! Ironic that one of the pair sitting in judgement should be called 'Lord Justice Gross'! GROSS Miscarriage of Justice - for the child's family - would be more appropriate in the circumstances.

[Arthur Little]

Frankly ... I'm surprised at the lack of response to this thread - apart from my own!

[joebloggs]

a sleep Arthur

this is shocking , the gov needs to change the law and to the human rights act, anyone who has committed a crime should lose their right to claim 'human rights'. after all they are guilty of a crime and in most cases there is a victim and where are their 'human rights' ?

Just becuase he has kids in the Uk is no excuse for allowing him to stay, the kids can stay here or go with him, and what kind of role model or father would he be?, too many people are using the same excuse to escape justice

[scott&ligaya]

perhaps Arthur people are becoming resigned to these mis carriages of justice and the general lack of moral justice in the country. I hope not.. There were two programmes I caught this week... Vigilante Britain and My Brothers an Islamist...both shocking and thought provoking.

[grahamw48]

I give up.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

[aposhark]

It's about the children not the father

[gWaPito]

Frankly ... I'm surprised at the lack of response to this thread - apart from my own!

I think you will find the lack of response is due threats of being banned.

When ever there is a conflict of opinion the powers that be consider it distasteful. Thus the threat of the axe is duly passed.

If only real life can be conducted in that way.

The convicted criminal in question was already banned from driving so, in my opinion should of been convicted of murder.

He didn't set out to kill that child, obviously.
What he didn't do was try and save the childs life after his tragic mistake.

I wonder what sentence he would of got commiting the same crime in his own country?

[scott&ligaya]

or for a Brit in Iraq!!!!!

[keithAngel]

A Brit in the Phils would be well advised not to hang around in that situation licence or no

Depending on the family concerned he would end up paying a few grand to the family and might need to move islands

If no money it could go quiet badly

[johncar54]

Unfortunately I believe that people sometimes fail to see the problem.

In this case I suggest that it is not the fact the driver was not deported but that the punishment he was given was insufficient.

That he was disqualified is not a factor. It was the way in which he as his driving which killed a person. In saying this, I mean had he not been disqualified the crime of driving in way which resulted in the death, would have been the same.

What was required in this case was a sentence, which was adequate for the crime committed, and which hopefully would act as a deterrent to others, and that is a good argument why probably all sentences should be increased, but it is a different argument from what this thread relates to.

It may be that people believe it would have been a reasonable punishment for the driver, his wife and his children to have been punished, because that is what people here are in effect saying when they argue that the driver should have been deported. However, if that is so, how should the courts deal with say an indigenous Englishman who kills by dangerous driving?

[scott&ligaya]

off topic but....

This may be an urban myth but my honey told me that Victory provincial bus drivers are told that if they hit someone especailly at night that they needed to make sure they were dead as the one off payment the family would get from the company vs much less than helping to pay for upkeep of a crippled person... but it is scary enough to be true

[stevie c]

absolutely shocking this countries judges are a laughing stock a bunch of cowboys im disgusted to be called British after this decision

[scott&ligaya]

I many be wrong here but it is possible..
a failed asylum seeker has kids to stay in the country .hhmmmmm if they fail they should be sent immediately

[gWaPito]

Lets put this tragic accident to one side.
The Iraqi turds are failed asylum seekers, they failed to meet the requirements to be able eventually to become British citizens.

On that alone, they should be sent home so, spare us the ' don't suffer the children' nonsense.

Its not only old eastern block countries married to non British citizens can get permanent residency after 5 years, so can child killing failed asylum seekers.

[joebloggs]

It's about the children not the father

yes one dead daughter lets not forget her and her family who will never have a choice of seeing her again, in this country or any other country

if you commit a crime and because of your crime you can be deported, you really believe he should not be deported because he has kids

[joebloggs]

I think you will find the lack of response is due threats of being banned.

not from me gwapito , but we dont need threads with people posting school ground insults at each other

took the kids to blackpool gwapito , couldn't ask for better weather and a fun day for them

[joebloggs]

It may be that people believe it would have been a reasonable punishment for the driver, his wife and his children to have been punished, because that is what people here are in effect saying when they argue that the driver should have been deported. However, if that is so, how should the courts deal with say an indigenous Englishman who kills by dangerous driving?

people who are subject to immigration control who commit crimes and serve a prison sentence can be recommended for deportation after they have done their time in prison, we have our own criminals in the UK, we dont need other countries

I suppose its a deterrent, you commit a crime and you face deportation, sounds fair to me, he'll not get citizenship for at least 5yrs, and if you ask me he shouldn't get ilr because of his crimes

the crime here was that he got to stay in this country too long to have kids when he was a failed asyulm seeker. process them in a month or so, let they stay or send them back to the country they came from.. taking years to decide is a

[gWaPito]

not from me gwapito , but we dont need threads with people posting school ground insults at each other

took the kids to blackpool gwapito , couldn't ask for better weather and a fun day for them

I agree wd you Joe. Telling some one to f off in the manner it was said was rather over the top and uncalled for.

What Kieth posted was proper and correct. I take my hat off to Kieth .

Water under the bridge now

Blackpool is a 5 hr each way drive for me, ill stick to Bournemouth

We'll take babies to see the famous illuminations in a few years time

[keithAngel]

off topic but....

This may be an urban myth but my honey told me that Victory provincial bus drivers are told that if they hit someone especailly at night that they needed to make sure they were dead as the one off payment the family would get from the company vs much less than helping to pay for upkeep of a crippled person... but it is scary enough to be true

Its widely talked about on expat forums

Hard for us to imagine but folk that get raised in different cultures do learn quiete diferent responces and as I said earlier If you drive a car in the Phils totaly legaly and hit and kill anyone nomatter that they simply stepped out in front of you ,it will be your fault and you will probably be charged with "reckless imprudence" you would be ill advised no matter your concerns for the victim or repugnance at the need to beat a hasty retreat or risk retribution of an immediate nature.

[keithAngel]

not from me gwapito , but we dont need threads with people posting school ground insults at each other

I agree Joe I find such terms as

"Excrement allowed to stay"

"Shlut of the year"

etc very schoolboy but what can you do Mental ages are not part of the sign up process

[aposhark]

yes one dead daughter lets not forget her and her family who will never have a choice of seeing her again, in this country or any other country

if you commit a crime and because of your crime you can be deported, you really believe he should not be deported because he has kids

Yes.
It is far from a perfect world but the judges took into account the two children.

[johncar54]

In this case I suggest that it is not the fact the driver was not deported but that the punishment he was given was insufficient.

[aposhark]

I agree Joe I find such terms as

"Excrement allowed to stay"

"Shlut of the year"

etc very schoolboy but what can you do Mental ages are not part of the sign up process

Trolls are not dependent on age, Keith

As my mum used to say "It's being so cheerful that keeps him going"

[Walaytawo]

Why am I not surprised

[gWaPito]

I agree Joe I find such terms as

"Excrement allowed to stay"

"Shlut of the year"

etc very schoolboy but what can you do Mental ages are not part of the sign up process

Hey Keefy, looks like you misquoted Joe

As for this thread heading, in my opinion, it's appropriate.

[Tawi2]

Victory provincial bus drivers are told that if they hit someone especailly at night that they needed to make sure they were dead as the one off payment the family would get from the company vs much less than helping to pay for upkeep of a crippled person

When I used to ride a bike around Cebu I heard the same thing,maybe part urban legend part truth.

[johncar54]

Childish remarks.

I guess people resort to that when their vocabulary is not quite up to it.

Not so in Dedworth's case, he just seems to like being abusive to, may I say, minorities

[joebloggs]

In this case I suggest that it is not the fact the driver was not deported but that the punishment he was given was insufficient.

I agree with you john, so if he got 10yrs+ in prison his kids wouldn't have seen much of him anyway, so whats the difference if he was deported ?? being deported would effect his kids 'human rights' but him being in prison doesn't ?

what next you can't send criminals to prison because they have kids

[johncar54]

I agree with you john, so if he got 10yrs+ in prison his kids wouldn't have seen much of him anyway, so whats the difference if he was deported ?? being deported would effect his kids 'human rights' but him being in prison doesn't ?

what next you can't send criminals to prison because they have kids

Joe, I don't want to repeat it here but if you look at my post No 11 above, you will see that I was distinguishing between punishment for the offence and deportation. They are two different things.