We Are Approved

[ginapeterb]

Pete and Gina Bennetts British Embassy Experience


Well where do i start, perhaps at the beginning, as some of you will know, I had flown out to Manila with a good freind of mine, Steve Smith from Glasgow, who was also visiting his wife in Cavite, sadly, they had to cancel their settlement visa interview which was for the 9th of June, as they do not have the required evidence of accomodation, and other important documents, it was decided that he should cancel...to leave for later date and not suffer the chance of a refusal to issue a visa.

Gina and I flew to Manila on Saturday afternoon, wanting to be in town, for two things

1. To take stock of our paperwork and prepare.
2. To do some role playing on the ECO/Applicant interview.

Well as you will see later, we actually had a gift horse thrown at us, to perhaps help some of you in the future, I think the Embassy actually made a mistake, in that they accidentally released the notes they had made about the interview from their point of view, when Gina called on Tuesday to collect her Passport with the nice UK Entry Clearance Visa stamped neatly in the back.

The Morning of Monday the 6th June 2005 interview appointment time 11.00am.

Working on the basis of "its better to be earlier than late" Gina and i awoke around 6.30am and had a hearty breakfast, we left the hotel, with our massive Rustans shopping carrier bag, with the following items inside.

1. Evidence of relationship File.
2. Large Album of Photos spanning 2 years of courtship.
3. File with Application Forms, NSO Docs, Birth Certs, Mutliple Copies of this and that.
4. Wedding Album
5. 6 Ton of personal letters (Just Kidding - Keith will understand this one)
6. Passports

We arrived at the Embassy at around 10.15am for our 11.00am time slot, on arrival we noted the prescence of 2 Philippine Marine Guards with M16's and 1 Police Officer, also a civilian security guard, we were asked to deposit our ID Card, although I was not asked to leave ID..Gina was.

We then went to Ground Floor reception, at reception a Filipina asked us what our business was, She asked if it was for Visa, we stated affirmative, I then tried to go upstairs to the 15th Floor, but was denied entry, on the grounds that Sponsors are not allowed up to the Visa Section as their is no where for them to wait, and they are not allowed in the Interview room.

At that point I tried to argue the situation, again to no avail, a polite smile, and that it is the British Embassy policy, I had to leave Gina and say goodbye, she then proceeded upstairs in the lift without me, no doubt Rob went through same situation as I did.

Their is no where to actually wait outside the Embassy, so i made freinds with the Marines and started a conversation about everything from "Do you have a loaded weapon, or full magazine" to the weather, they let me stay there, outside, whilst other filipinos were asked to move on, this is something to note for the future, to anyone who goes after me, there is little point in my view of the Sponsor husband or fiance actually hanging around as

1. The Applicant cannot take a cellphone in to call you.
2. You have no idea how long they will be as I will show you.

Gina left to go upstairs at 10.15am, I did not see her again until 12.30pm, and by this time she had still not been called forward for her interview.

Let me explain further.

Remembering now it is 30 degrees outside on the sidewalk, the traffic is bedlam, the noise is incredible, standing on the corner of Ayala and Makati Avenue, opposite the Shangri-la is the worse place to actually be, and outside the LV Locsin Building they are altering the road, so there is no path, its a dogs dinner, and hot.

I managed to find out, that all applicants are interviewed on the basis of Alphabetical order, this is ok in principle, but as I found out, if your maiden name is Yap as Gina's is, (and by the way, it does not seem to be a problem, if you are married and are interviewed as what is in your passport..i.e. your maiden name, this has no relevance, so dont go worrying about changing your wife's passport to her married name, this can take up to 1 month)

So applicants are interviewed from the A's through to the Y's etc, this meant that all applicants that turned up in the morning, and appointments started at 08.30am, this seems to be irrelevant, therefore, in my case, after standing outside for 2 and 3 quarter hours, I was sweating, sticky and tired, Gina came out with another lady who both said, they had not even been called.

They were told to come back at 2pm.

So Gina and I..and another guy who was stood with me, Kenny from Birmingham, and Steve and Lorna my freinds, we all went to the Ayala Centre Museum Cafe, incidentally, this is nice, about 100 yards to your left and easily spottable, we had a nice lunch there, and its air conditioned throughout.

[ginapeterb]

The British Embassy Afternoon Session

At 2pm we all returned to the front of the LV Locsin building and said our Goodbyes kenny and I again chatted outside, the time seemed to drag, until about 4.30...now another 2.5 hours of hanging around, we were told we could go around the back of the LV Locsin Building and there was a coffee shop..hahaha if you could call it that.

We went around the back, its more like a mini mart, with a few seats and tables, the coffee is basically, a cup with dried coffee and you help yourself to hot water, its about 20 P a cup, actually, we did not sit their long as we were both worried that the girls would come out and we would miss them, again as I have previously stated, there is no way to know if your partner has emerged.

We saw plenty of Filipina's coming out, who we stopped and asked them what they had applied for, there had been many refusals, but as I had previously thought, and now can put it to rest, the majority of applications in the daytime are for Student, Work and dependant Visa's a category which we have rarely discussed on the Forum.

Dependant Applications are for Filipino's who have relatives in the UK on permament work visas, I.E. Nurses and other skilled people under the "Skilled Migrant programme"

Most of the refusals we met, were dependants who had applied to join their relatives, there were we found out, only 7 Applicants who had gone up to the Embassy that day, (we got this information out of the Guard, who told us how many Settlement applications had slipped pas him)

The interesting thing I then found out, was that any applicant who showed up for an afternoon appointment was actually being interviwed before my Gina who had arrived at 10.15am, a bit shitty but true, Gina was in fact the last applicant to be interviewed that day.

When Gina arrived at 10.30am, she told me she sat until 11.00am, and was relieved of the following.


1. The VAFW2004
2. The current Fee P27,300
3. A Covering Letter I had written.
4. Our NSO Marriage Certificate
5. Her NSO Birth Certificate
6. Her Passport.


These were the only things taken, it was not until her Interview was she then asked to produce the following

1. My Divorce Decree Absolute.
2. 2nd Copy of Legal Capacity for Marriage
3. Evidence of Accomodation.
4. Bank Statements.
5. Letter from my Employer Stating Salary and Commissions for last 2 years.
6. Copy of NSO Marriage Certificate.


Although I had made it known to the ECO that I was at the Embassy, and available to be interviewed if necessary, a good thing in my view as I shall show you later, the ECO did not once ask for me, the decision to grant the visa was purely made on the basis of the Application with the Applicant and her responses.

The Interview

The reason I am able to relate the interview word for word, is that when Gina went on Tuesday at 3pm to collect her Visa, they Embassy I think has made a mistake in that they gave us a full transcript of the Interview and i can reveal the following.

1. The Interviewer now transcribes the Interview and does not write anything, having a PC Available in the Room.
2. The Interviewer also makes a summary of his her opinion on the Applicants Sincerity, and the decision to grant or refuse a visa is arbitrary, and not objective as we had been led to beleive, something of which i find disturbing.

So how did it go...something Like this.


1. Hello Mrs Bennett I understand you have applied in your Maiden name, did you complete this application ?

A Yes i did.

2. Are you fit and well to be interviewed today ?

A Yes I am.

3. Would you prefer the Interview to be completed in your native Language or in English.

A English please.

4. Very well..So this is your application, are the answers contained within this document you have submitted correct ?

A Yes they are.

5. Can you tell me How you first made contact with your husband ?

A I met Peter on Yahoo chatting and we exchanged E Mails.

6. So why were you on the Internet ?

A Just looking for a freind ?

7. Come on, surely you were looking for a husband to get you out of the Philippines were you not ?

A No I was just looking for a nice freind, but yes actually a foreign one.

8. So really then, it would be true to say, you wanted a foreign husband, isnt that the case ?

A Not really, but I suppose I would prefer a foreign husband to my own kind.

9. Why is that ? is it because you want to go to UK For a better life ?

A No I am happy here with my Job as an office Manager I never really thought about the UK in that sense.

10. Come on you can do better than that, is that the real reason, are you really expecting me to beleive that you dont want a better life ?

A. Well everyone does dont they, but as long as I can take care of my husband I will be happy if he lives here in the Philippines.

11. Did your husband ever talk of coming to live with you here in the Philippines ?

A Yes he loves it in my country, but he does not think he could make a living here.

12. I see. so how much does he earn then ?

A He earns xxxxx to xxxxx but he has not earned as much as he has been to see me 4 times last year.

13. When did he propose to you or did you propose to him ?

A He proposed to me in Ilo Ilo City on 12th March 2004.

14. So if i decide to refuse you a visa, what will you do, end your life or something like that (ECO Laughs)

A No actually I will ask my husband to come and live with me, although i think he will never be happy as he cant make the money he makes in UK.

15. So what attracted you to your husband ?

A His qualities

16. Come on you can do better than that, their must be things you can tell me why you were attracted to him ?

Well he is generous, and loving, he is caring, I like his sense of humour, and honest with me, and I trust him.

17. So would you say then that this is the reason you wanted a foreign husband, because that is what you wanted wasnt it ?

A Well not neccessarily a foreign husband, but a husband with those qualities, I always thought British men were like that...


18. Why does your husband not own a house ? oh yes I Can see, he is divorced recently isnt he ?

A Yes he was, he lost the house to the former wife.

19. Oh yes So the ex wife got it all did she (ECO Laughs) ?

A Yes she got it all..but my husband has rented a house for me to live in.

20. Does you husband have family ?

A Yes he does, his Mother is called...xxxx his Father is xxxx his Sister is xxxx and her children are called xxxxxxx.


ECO Says : "Mrs Bennett I am satisfied with your application and your answers, I am happy to grant you a visa, will you please come back tomorrow at 3pm, as it is too late to issue it today, I will then have all your documents returned to you, before you go, were you happy with the style of interview, and how you have been treated today. ?"

A well..its ok

ECO Says: (Laughing) come on, just ok ?

A Well i am happy to receive my visa thank you.

ECO Thank you also...Enjoy the rest of your day.

[ginapeterb]

Entry Clearance Officers' Sumary of Interview and Decision to grant a Visa.


Having Interviewed the Applicant I found her to be presentable and knowledgable of her relationship with Sponsor indicating that the relationship is more than likely to be genuine.

Although the relationship started via Internet the Sponsor has been 4 times to visit in 2004 showing evidence of a short physical relationship, the age difference is acceptable again showing a likelihood that the match is genuine.

Evidence of accomodation and income is more than satisfactory, there are no further checks required.

Sponsor has also travelled from UK For appointment and has submitted a nicely written covering letter denoting a genuine relationship.

I am satisfied that Applicant intends to live with Sponsor indefinately and recommend issuing a 2 year Mutiple Entry Wife category.

My Own Comments


This is the first time I have had sight of a Sumary made by Entry Clearance Officer and as no one else has ever mentioned this on the Forum, can only assume this is a 1st, and that the Embassy has genuinely cocked up by allowing us to see what is actually said.

I can think of the following points when reviewing the ECO's Summary as follows:

1. The ECO's are prejudiced slightly against relationships that have started via yahoo or Dating sites.

2. They are making arbitrary decisions in first instance.

3. They have a Subjective approach to Summarising the Answers.


The above is quite disturbing considering that the ECO is really GOD In this case, and in 15 minutes gets to decide your life course, if the ECO makes a decision that the relationship in his her opinion is not genuine, even though it might be, the interview lives and dies based on the Applicant's skill in convincing the ECO of the genuine situation that is before them.

Therefore i may have been right in the past, when i have recommended that Sponsors actually coach their partners, as i had done continuously with Gina throughout most of 2004, I will also prove that to you, as I did witness a refusal on Monday 6th, and will set out the reasons why.

I think 2 points come out of this on Monday.


1. It is definately in your favour to be in Manila, for the Interview, even if not called upon to attend, which I only saw once, with Kenny, who was asked to come in to be interviewed.

2. It is also good to send in a covering letter with the application, as this was noted in the Summary, plus the fact that the Sponsor has travelled out for the Interview.

3. The Applicant must be strong in her skill to convince the ECO and leave no doubt in his her mind.

4. Income and Accomodation must be spot on.

5. Documentation must be superb.


What an experience, but we have learned so much about what happens..and will put it all to good use..

Thanks for reading guys.

[walesrob]

Very interesting Pete.....As for the Embassy releasing the summary, well its made our job on these forums much easier as we now have an idea of the mindset of the Embassy. Look forward to the CFO report. Elsa got her CFO sorted way before the settlement interview so it was plain sailing....

[ginapeterb]

Originally posted by walesrob@Jun 8 2005, 09:39 AM
Very interesting Pete.....As for the Embassy releasing the summary, well its made our job on these forums much easier as we now have an idea of the mindset of the Embassy. Look forward to the CFO report. Elsa got her CFO sorted way before the settlement interview so it was plain sailing....

Quoted post

Yes it does Rob, sadly Kenny's wife was denied a visa, in the end, I found out he was on Income Support, a fact of which he had failed to mentio all day, and his wife could not convince the ECO that she had any skills that the United Kingdom needed.

Incedible but true.

The CFO Experience coming up...and we still havent got it yet.

[ginapeterb]

Stop Press - Our CFO Experience


It was only by chance that we found out, that the CFO at Qurino Towers no longer conducts pre counselling for Filipino Spouses or Fiancees departing the Philippines, i did call them on Monday afternoon only to find that now it is done at the following location.


The Good Shepherd Convent
1043 Aurora Boulevard
Quezon City
Metro Manila.


hahahaha this now presents many of you with problems like you wont beleive, as I will now show.


To get to this venue, hahahaha I wouldnt really call it that, f....shack of a place, sorry I am so mad.

All Foreign Spouses and Fiancees, must now go to this dive to get their CFO Counselling certificate, to enable them to be integrated into cross cultural life. what a joke...


Anyway, this gaff is located high up in Quezon City, nearest MTR Station is Cubao-Araneta, if you are in Makati you need to take a taxi to Ayala Station, then take a train north on MTR3 to Cubao-Araneta station about 30 minutes up the line, except, you are on a first come first served basis, maximum 12 persons in Manila, per session which takes place at 10.00am Tuesdays and Thursdays,

the conselling session is 3 hours, so if you are going, with your loved one, suggest you are prepared to sit out in the hot sun, on wooden shanti benches for 3 hours, kicking around doing nothing better than wiping the sweat off your brow...foreign husbands and partnes, are not allowed in.

Sadly, our passport was in the Embassy, our papers were there also, and it took us 2 hours to get from Makati Avenue to Cubao-Araneta, after we overshot and ended up in Quezon Avenue, what a joke, then we had to double back, and by the time we took a taxi up the road to the place, we were 10 minutes late, guess what......


Come back on Thursday, sorry you have missed out, after having a row with them, which only got me turfed out by the guard, we had to trek all the way back to Makati, my advice is as follows:

Do as Rob did, get the wife to go on her own and do this herself, dont go with her,

1. its too hot
2. its a shithole
3. the place stinks to high heaven
4. the people in the place are stupid
5. Got the picture. get it got it good.


I am arranging for Gina to go to Cebu and complete this, in her own time, when I am back in UK, thankfully I wont be going, and I wont have to sweat my around stinky Quezon city anymore.

Well thats the story.

[peterdavid]

Pete,

This was fascinating. The transcript (which surely must have been a mistake of theirs in releasing it) makes blood-curdling reading.

When my wife got her visa, it was in the days when, for whatever reason, they didn't do interviews for settlement visas, so she never had to go through this. It is really appalling, the tone of the questions they asked (in your transcript) sounds like they address applicants with complete disdain and disrespect. Shocking. And the UK calls itself the developed country! I'm appalled to read how they spoke to Gina, I find it almost as annoying as the CFO nonsense and the NAIA "security guards".

CFO is as big a nightmare now as it was then, I see. It's just a money making scam isn't it. The idea that any of the ignorant a**ewipes who work at the CFO, who have probably never set foot outside Manila, let alone the Philippines, could provide any useful information to an emigrant is utterly laughable. I've never heard of a country which is so backwards it keeps its own citizens prisoners in the country until they have "counselling" to set foot into the world. They'd do better offering the counselling to foreigners who want to ENTER the Philippines, far more of a culture shock than leaving. All they do is tell the filipinas their foreign husband will spend most of his time using her as a second rate punching bag and leaving her to nurse her wounds while he goes off getting w@nkered with his mates. Which may be what happens 75% of the time in Filipino marriages, but thankfully the statistic is far lower here.

An amazing read. I don't suppose you fancy revealing the name of the ECO....? Wasn't a sort of Phil Mitchell look-a-like was it....?