We Are Approved

[ginapeterb]

Hello Guys, just a quick message before Glorietta closes for the night, after a long long hot day of hanging around, at the coffee shop (what a joke) and lunch at the Ayala Centre Museum, and sharing the whole day talking to the Marines guarding the embassy, we finally got approved at around 4.45pm today,


so its a YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.......



We did it....



Will check back with some feedback over next few days, its now full steam ahead to pleasure Island....


See you all in the week, will give a more detailed report and feedback...but have to rush now..

Best wishes to all

Bye Pete

[walesrob]

Originally posted by ginapeterb@Jun 6 2005, 11:59 AM
Hello Guys, just a quick message before Glorietta closes for the night, after a long long hot day of hanging around, at the coffee shop (what a joke) and lunch at the Ayala Centre Museum, and sharing the whole day talking to the Marines guarding the embassy, we finally got approved at around 4.45pm today,
so its a YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.......
We did it....
Will check back with some feedback over next few days, its now full steam ahead to pleasure Island....
See you all in the week, will give a more detailed report and feedback...but have to rush now..

Best wishes to all

Bye Pete

Quoted post

EXCELLENT!!!! Well done mate....

Look forward to the detailed report....

Have fun!

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by walesrob@Jun 6 2005, 12:43 PM
EXCELLENT!!!! Well done mate....

Look forward to the detailed report....

Have fun!

Quoted post

Pete,

Congratulations, I'm really pleased for you. (Belated congratulations on the wedding as well). After all the hard work you've put in it would have been a travesty of justice if the Embassy had decided to get picky with you. I'm really pleased for you mate, I hope Gina likes it in England.

If I remember correctly, you've already taken her to Singapore for a holiday...? In which case you've spoilt her - she'll be expecting a Singapore style efficient tube system and buses and clean streets, and she's going to be landed with the filthy rubbish we have to put up with in London. You'll have to lower her expectations before she gets here!!

On the plus side, the last thing she'll see of Manila before she leaves is the airport, and lets face it, a night in Saddam's cell would look good compared to that.

[andypaul]

Well done Happy for both You and Your Wife

Hopefully My Wife and I will have good news, when we apply soon.

[Admin]

What immigration policy....they let anyone in these days :lol: :lol:

[ginapeterb]

Originally posted by admin@Jun 7 2005, 11:33 AM
What immigration policy....they let anyone in these days :lol: :lol:

Quoted post

I hear you Keith..hehehehe, but let me tell you...did I sweat that day..and do I have a story for all of you...and it will follow...some of the things that happened that day make me laugh..and my experiences on Monday make me boil sometimes, and my experience of the CFO which incidentally we have not done as yet..makes my blood boil even more..but anyway...here is my report coming up.....makes good reading let me assure you of that !!

[Admin]

I'll get the wifes glasses then :huh:

[ginapeterb]

Pete and Gina Bennetts British Embassy Experience


Well where do i start, perhaps at the beginning, as some of you will know, I had flown out to Manila with a good freind of mine, Steve Smith from Glasgow, who was also visiting his wife in Cavite, sadly, they had to cancel their settlement visa interview which was for the 9th of June, as they do not have the required evidence of accomodation, and other important documents, it was decided that he should cancel...to leave for later date and not suffer the chance of a refusal to issue a visa.

Gina and I flew to Manila on Saturday afternoon, wanting to be in town, for two things

1. To take stock of our paperwork and prepare.
2. To do some role playing on the ECO/Applicant interview.

Well as you will see later, we actually had a gift horse thrown at us, to perhaps help some of you in the future, I think the Embassy actually made a mistake, in that they accidentally released the notes they had made about the interview from their point of view, when Gina called on Tuesday to collect her Passport with the nice UK Entry Clearance Visa stamped neatly in the back.

The Morning of Monday the 6th June 2005 interview appointment time 11.00am.

Working on the basis of "its better to be earlier than late" Gina and i awoke around 6.30am and had a hearty breakfast, we left the hotel, with our massive Rustans shopping carrier bag, with the following items inside.

1. Evidence of relationship File.
2. Large Album of Photos spanning 2 years of courtship.
3. File with Application Forms, NSO Docs, Birth Certs, Mutliple Copies of this and that.
4. Wedding Album
5. 6 Ton of personal letters (Just Kidding - Keith will understand this one)
6. Passports

We arrived at the Embassy at around 10.15am for our 11.00am time slot, on arrival we noted the prescence of 2 Philippine Marine Guards with M16's and 1 Police Officer, also a civilian security guard, we were asked to deposit our ID Card, although I was not asked to leave ID..Gina was.

We then went to Ground Floor reception, at reception a Filipina asked us what our business was, She asked if it was for Visa, we stated affirmative, I then tried to go upstairs to the 15th Floor, but was denied entry, on the grounds that Sponsors are not allowed up to the Visa Section as their is no where for them to wait, and they are not allowed in the Interview room.

At that point I tried to argue the situation, again to no avail, a polite smile, and that it is the British Embassy policy, I had to leave Gina and say goodbye, she then proceeded upstairs in the lift without me, no doubt Rob went through same situation as I did.

Their is no where to actually wait outside the Embassy, so i made freinds with the Marines and started a conversation about everything from "Do you have a loaded weapon, or full magazine" to the weather, they let me stay there, outside, whilst other filipinos were asked to move on, this is something to note for the future, to anyone who goes after me, there is little point in my view of the Sponsor husband or fiance actually hanging around as

1. The Applicant cannot take a cellphone in to call you.
2. You have no idea how long they will be as I will show you.

Gina left to go upstairs at 10.15am, I did not see her again until 12.30pm, and by this time she had still not been called forward for her interview.

Let me explain further.

Remembering now it is 30 degrees outside on the sidewalk, the traffic is bedlam, the noise is incredible, standing on the corner of Ayala and Makati Avenue, opposite the Shangri-la is the worse place to actually be, and outside the LV Locsin Building they are altering the road, so there is no path, its a dogs dinner, and hot.

I managed to find out, that all applicants are interviewed on the basis of Alphabetical order, this is ok in principle, but as I found out, if your maiden name is Yap as Gina's is, (and by the way, it does not seem to be a problem, if you are married and are interviewed as what is in your passport..i.e. your maiden name, this has no relevance, so dont go worrying about changing your wife's passport to her married name, this can take up to 1 month)

So applicants are interviewed from the A's through to the Y's etc, this meant that all applicants that turned up in the morning, and appointments started at 08.30am, this seems to be irrelevant, therefore, in my case, after standing outside for 2 and 3 quarter hours, I was sweating, sticky and tired, Gina came out with another lady who both said, they had not even been called.

They were told to come back at 2pm.

So Gina and I..and another guy who was stood with me, Kenny from Birmingham, and Steve and Lorna my freinds, we all went to the Ayala Centre Museum Cafe, incidentally, this is nice, about 100 yards to your left and easily spottable, we had a nice lunch there, and its air conditioned throughout.

[ginapeterb]

The British Embassy Afternoon Session

At 2pm we all returned to the front of the LV Locsin building and said our Goodbyes kenny and I again chatted outside, the time seemed to drag, until about 4.30...now another 2.5 hours of hanging around, we were told we could go around the back of the LV Locsin Building and there was a coffee shop..hahaha if you could call it that.

We went around the back, its more like a mini mart, with a few seats and tables, the coffee is basically, a cup with dried coffee and you help yourself to hot water, its about 20 P a cup, actually, we did not sit their long as we were both worried that the girls would come out and we would miss them, again as I have previously stated, there is no way to know if your partner has emerged.

We saw plenty of Filipina's coming out, who we stopped and asked them what they had applied for, there had been many refusals, but as I had previously thought, and now can put it to rest, the majority of applications in the daytime are for Student, Work and dependant Visa's a category which we have rarely discussed on the Forum.

Dependant Applications are for Filipino's who have relatives in the UK on permament work visas, I.E. Nurses and other skilled people under the "Skilled Migrant programme"

Most of the refusals we met, were dependants who had applied to join their relatives, there were we found out, only 7 Applicants who had gone up to the Embassy that day, (we got this information out of the Guard, who told us how many Settlement applications had slipped pas him)

The interesting thing I then found out, was that any applicant who showed up for an afternoon appointment was actually being interviwed before my Gina who had arrived at 10.15am, a bit shitty but true, Gina was in fact the last applicant to be interviewed that day.

When Gina arrived at 10.30am, she told me she sat until 11.00am, and was relieved of the following.


1. The VAFW2004
2. The current Fee P27,300
3. A Covering Letter I had written.
4. Our NSO Marriage Certificate
5. Her NSO Birth Certificate
6. Her Passport.


These were the only things taken, it was not until her Interview was she then asked to produce the following

1. My Divorce Decree Absolute.
2. 2nd Copy of Legal Capacity for Marriage
3. Evidence of Accomodation.
4. Bank Statements.
5. Letter from my Employer Stating Salary and Commissions for last 2 years.
6. Copy of NSO Marriage Certificate.


Although I had made it known to the ECO that I was at the Embassy, and available to be interviewed if necessary, a good thing in my view as I shall show you later, the ECO did not once ask for me, the decision to grant the visa was purely made on the basis of the Application with the Applicant and her responses.

The Interview

The reason I am able to relate the interview word for word, is that when Gina went on Tuesday at 3pm to collect her Visa, they Embassy I think has made a mistake in that they gave us a full transcript of the Interview and i can reveal the following.

1. The Interviewer now transcribes the Interview and does not write anything, having a PC Available in the Room.
2. The Interviewer also makes a summary of his her opinion on the Applicants Sincerity, and the decision to grant or refuse a visa is arbitrary, and not objective as we had been led to beleive, something of which i find disturbing.

So how did it go...something Like this.


1. Hello Mrs Bennett I understand you have applied in your Maiden name, did you complete this application ?

A Yes i did.

2. Are you fit and well to be interviewed today ?

A Yes I am.

3. Would you prefer the Interview to be completed in your native Language or in English.

A English please.

4. Very well..So this is your application, are the answers contained within this document you have submitted correct ?

A Yes they are.

5. Can you tell me How you first made contact with your husband ?

A I met Peter on Yahoo chatting and we exchanged E Mails.

6. So why were you on the Internet ?

A Just looking for a freind ?

7. Come on, surely you were looking for a husband to get you out of the Philippines were you not ?

A No I was just looking for a nice freind, but yes actually a foreign one.

8. So really then, it would be true to say, you wanted a foreign husband, isnt that the case ?

A Not really, but I suppose I would prefer a foreign husband to my own kind.

9. Why is that ? is it because you want to go to UK For a better life ?

A No I am happy here with my Job as an office Manager I never really thought about the UK in that sense.

10. Come on you can do better than that, is that the real reason, are you really expecting me to beleive that you dont want a better life ?

A. Well everyone does dont they, but as long as I can take care of my husband I will be happy if he lives here in the Philippines.

11. Did your husband ever talk of coming to live with you here in the Philippines ?

A Yes he loves it in my country, but he does not think he could make a living here.

12. I see. so how much does he earn then ?

A He earns xxxxx to xxxxx but he has not earned as much as he has been to see me 4 times last year.

13. When did he propose to you or did you propose to him ?

A He proposed to me in Ilo Ilo City on 12th March 2004.

14. So if i decide to refuse you a visa, what will you do, end your life or something like that (ECO Laughs)

A No actually I will ask my husband to come and live with me, although i think he will never be happy as he cant make the money he makes in UK.

15. So what attracted you to your husband ?

A His qualities

16. Come on you can do better than that, their must be things you can tell me why you were attracted to him ?

Well he is generous, and loving, he is caring, I like his sense of humour, and honest with me, and I trust him.

17. So would you say then that this is the reason you wanted a foreign husband, because that is what you wanted wasnt it ?

A Well not neccessarily a foreign husband, but a husband with those qualities, I always thought British men were like that...


18. Why does your husband not own a house ? oh yes I Can see, he is divorced recently isnt he ?

A Yes he was, he lost the house to the former wife.

19. Oh yes So the ex wife got it all did she (ECO Laughs) ?

A Yes she got it all..but my husband has rented a house for me to live in.

20. Does you husband have family ?

A Yes he does, his Mother is called...xxxx his Father is xxxx his Sister is xxxx and her children are called xxxxxxx.


ECO Says : "Mrs Bennett I am satisfied with your application and your answers, I am happy to grant you a visa, will you please come back tomorrow at 3pm, as it is too late to issue it today, I will then have all your documents returned to you, before you go, were you happy with the style of interview, and how you have been treated today. ?"

A well..its ok

ECO Says: (Laughing) come on, just ok ?

A Well i am happy to receive my visa thank you.

ECO Thank you also...Enjoy the rest of your day.

[ginapeterb]

Entry Clearance Officers' Sumary of Interview and Decision to grant a Visa.


Having Interviewed the Applicant I found her to be presentable and knowledgable of her relationship with Sponsor indicating that the relationship is more than likely to be genuine.

Although the relationship started via Internet the Sponsor has been 4 times to visit in 2004 showing evidence of a short physical relationship, the age difference is acceptable again showing a likelihood that the match is genuine.

Evidence of accomodation and income is more than satisfactory, there are no further checks required.

Sponsor has also travelled from UK For appointment and has submitted a nicely written covering letter denoting a genuine relationship.

I am satisfied that Applicant intends to live with Sponsor indefinately and recommend issuing a 2 year Mutiple Entry Wife category.

My Own Comments


This is the first time I have had sight of a Sumary made by Entry Clearance Officer and as no one else has ever mentioned this on the Forum, can only assume this is a 1st, and that the Embassy has genuinely cocked up by allowing us to see what is actually said.

I can think of the following points when reviewing the ECO's Summary as follows:

1. The ECO's are prejudiced slightly against relationships that have started via yahoo or Dating sites.

2. They are making arbitrary decisions in first instance.

3. They have a Subjective approach to Summarising the Answers.


The above is quite disturbing considering that the ECO is really GOD In this case, and in 15 minutes gets to decide your life course, if the ECO makes a decision that the relationship in his her opinion is not genuine, even though it might be, the interview lives and dies based on the Applicant's skill in convincing the ECO of the genuine situation that is before them.

Therefore i may have been right in the past, when i have recommended that Sponsors actually coach their partners, as i had done continuously with Gina throughout most of 2004, I will also prove that to you, as I did witness a refusal on Monday 6th, and will set out the reasons why.

I think 2 points come out of this on Monday.


1. It is definately in your favour to be in Manila, for the Interview, even if not called upon to attend, which I only saw once, with Kenny, who was asked to come in to be interviewed.

2. It is also good to send in a covering letter with the application, as this was noted in the Summary, plus the fact that the Sponsor has travelled out for the Interview.

3. The Applicant must be strong in her skill to convince the ECO and leave no doubt in his her mind.

4. Income and Accomodation must be spot on.

5. Documentation must be superb.


What an experience, but we have learned so much about what happens..and will put it all to good use..

Thanks for reading guys.

[walesrob]

Very interesting Pete.....As for the Embassy releasing the summary, well its made our job on these forums much easier as we now have an idea of the mindset of the Embassy. Look forward to the CFO report. Elsa got her CFO sorted way before the settlement interview so it was plain sailing....

[ginapeterb]

Originally posted by walesrob@Jun 8 2005, 09:39 AM
Very interesting Pete.....As for the Embassy releasing the summary, well its made our job on these forums much easier as we now have an idea of the mindset of the Embassy. Look forward to the CFO report. Elsa got her CFO sorted way before the settlement interview so it was plain sailing....

Quoted post

Yes it does Rob, sadly Kenny's wife was denied a visa, in the end, I found out he was on Income Support, a fact of which he had failed to mentio all day, and his wife could not convince the ECO that she had any skills that the United Kingdom needed.

Incedible but true.

The CFO Experience coming up...and we still havent got it yet.

[ginapeterb]

Stop Press - Our CFO Experience


It was only by chance that we found out, that the CFO at Qurino Towers no longer conducts pre counselling for Filipino Spouses or Fiancees departing the Philippines, i did call them on Monday afternoon only to find that now it is done at the following location.


The Good Shepherd Convent
1043 Aurora Boulevard
Quezon City
Metro Manila.


hahahaha this now presents many of you with problems like you wont beleive, as I will now show.


To get to this venue, hahahaha I wouldnt really call it that, f....shack of a place, sorry I am so mad.

All Foreign Spouses and Fiancees, must now go to this dive to get their CFO Counselling certificate, to enable them to be integrated into cross cultural life. what a joke...


Anyway, this gaff is located high up in Quezon City, nearest MTR Station is Cubao-Araneta, if you are in Makati you need to take a taxi to Ayala Station, then take a train north on MTR3 to Cubao-Araneta station about 30 minutes up the line, except, you are on a first come first served basis, maximum 12 persons in Manila, per session which takes place at 10.00am Tuesdays and Thursdays,

the conselling session is 3 hours, so if you are going, with your loved one, suggest you are prepared to sit out in the hot sun, on wooden shanti benches for 3 hours, kicking around doing nothing better than wiping the sweat off your brow...foreign husbands and partnes, are not allowed in.

Sadly, our passport was in the Embassy, our papers were there also, and it took us 2 hours to get from Makati Avenue to Cubao-Araneta, after we overshot and ended up in Quezon Avenue, what a joke, then we had to double back, and by the time we took a taxi up the road to the place, we were 10 minutes late, guess what......


Come back on Thursday, sorry you have missed out, after having a row with them, which only got me turfed out by the guard, we had to trek all the way back to Makati, my advice is as follows:

Do as Rob did, get the wife to go on her own and do this herself, dont go with her,

1. its too hot
2. its a shithole
3. the place stinks to high heaven
4. the people in the place are stupid
5. Got the picture. get it got it good.


I am arranging for Gina to go to Cebu and complete this, in her own time, when I am back in UK, thankfully I wont be going, and I wont have to sweat my around stinky Quezon city anymore.

Well thats the story.

[peterdavid]

Pete,

This was fascinating. The transcript (which surely must have been a mistake of theirs in releasing it) makes blood-curdling reading.

When my wife got her visa, it was in the days when, for whatever reason, they didn't do interviews for settlement visas, so she never had to go through this. It is really appalling, the tone of the questions they asked (in your transcript) sounds like they address applicants with complete disdain and disrespect. Shocking. And the UK calls itself the developed country! I'm appalled to read how they spoke to Gina, I find it almost as annoying as the CFO nonsense and the NAIA "security guards".

CFO is as big a nightmare now as it was then, I see. It's just a money making scam isn't it. The idea that any of the ignorant a**ewipes who work at the CFO, who have probably never set foot outside Manila, let alone the Philippines, could provide any useful information to an emigrant is utterly laughable. I've never heard of a country which is so backwards it keeps its own citizens prisoners in the country until they have "counselling" to set foot into the world. They'd do better offering the counselling to foreigners who want to ENTER the Philippines, far more of a culture shock than leaving. All they do is tell the filipinas their foreign husband will spend most of his time using her as a second rate punching bag and leaving her to nurse her wounds while he goes off getting w@nkered with his mates. Which may be what happens 75% of the time in Filipino marriages, but thankfully the statistic is far lower here.

An amazing read. I don't suppose you fancy revealing the name of the ECO....? Wasn't a sort of Phil Mitchell look-a-like was it....?

[andypaul]

Hi Pete

Congrats to you both, great articles as always. My Wife recently went to the CFO and found it easy. Little bit tired tonight so will just write basic Details on Manilia CFO.

My wife stayed over night in a nearby hotel which a week later burned down!!!

She took Two large folders with all our details.

She had spoken to the Guard the evening before and he advised to get there between 6 and 7 in the morning.

So she got there nice and early and was number 2 in the queue.

THere was a large group and this worried my Wife but later discovered most were heading for the US or Japan.

Only two others were left for the Uk interview. This for my wife was fairly straight forward as she knew things like my Midddle Name and where i live and what i do etc.

Both while waiting outside and in the office many of the Ladies seemed to be unsure of basic procedure (both the CFO and Marriage) and details about their husbands and where they live etc.

Although the CFO does seem silly in some of the things it says and does to intelligent well informed women. Sadly I think for some Women these so called basic questions and checks have to be asked.

I don't think Gina will have any problems what so ever

Apart from ID for getting in to the Buliding all My Wife was asked to show was Photos of us together and our Marriage certificate. But of course Bring all the Paperwork as it could be asked for.

Like you Pete, My Wife and her Tita po were suprised about the new CFO location.

My Wifes Tita while waiting went back to the Hotel untill 12, and then waited at the SM megamall which is nearby the Manila CFO. As Ladies using the CFO can keep their Mobiles with them so at least you can text encouragment to them and they can Phone you if any problems or just need some loving words.


Glad you have achieved obtaining a Visa for your Wife. Im sure from what I have read and learned about you two that leaving the CFO to your Wife is best. I guess like me you will have a sleepless night back in the UK.

[peterdavid]

Nothing to worry about in the CFO, they don't/can't refuse anyone, and even if they did, 200 pesos would soon sort that out.

It is maddeningly frustrating though isn't it.

None of the filipinos would need a "counselling programme" before leaving that dump of a country if the corrupt lowlifes in government actually provided their electorate with something even vaguely resembling a half decent education, instead of robbing their country blind at the expense of the average victim filipino who is forced to live there. Supposedly "free" government schools still force the children's parents to pay for things they have no right asking for, and refuse to pass the children in their exams if the parents don't pay (including paying for a nice large present for the teacher's birthday). So the average dirt poor filipino whose parents can only just about scrape enough money together for rice has no chance. Sickening.

CFO is just an irrelevant money making scam. So the wife will get the stamp in her passportand be suitably informed about life in 1970s Britain.

And definitely, let the wife sort it out on her own, Pete's absolutely correct. Like the Embassy, they have about as much respect for the spouse as they would a rabid dog and, despite refusing you entry, provide absolutely NO waiting facilities whatsoever. Charming isn't it, considering the foreign husband is no doubt the one paying for this useless scam, not to mention the phenomenal cost of a visa at the Embassy's suspiciously overpriced exchange rate.

[Admin]

When Ping went for her interview in Singapore in 1999 I made sure I was there, I've always also supplied a cover note of at least 2 pages, always do with anything regarding the goverment/wife, including when she needs to contact the Immigration in the UK. IT HELPS.

The interviewer in Singapore wasn't as biased as Gina's, and I've always said, if your already in another country as a maid, etc, apply from that country, don't go back to the Philippines.

At the end of Pings interview the guy actually called me in, thanked me for coming all the way from the UK, told me the visa was granted, and we then had a bit of a laugh over a few things British!!

Also the letters file Ping took in was around 1.5 inches thick and he only flicked through it.

On the application form, always write more than actually fits in the boxes, and continue on a new piece of paper, it looks good as you've put work into it to show you really are bothered.

OK, enough of being serious.....I'm off to Mars.... :P

[peterdavid]

Whoops - maybe I wasn't clear - foreverything else, yes, always be with the missus, especially embassy interview.

The only one that doesn't matter is the CFO whether you're there or not.

Pete - Gina changing her passport to her married name is a simple process - go to the DFA direct and they'll do it, I think you get it back the next day. DFA is actually surprisingly easy, they'll basically give a passport or amend it, etc, for anyone providing you've got an NSO document. Its just getting through the throngs of touts/fake agents/squatters outside that is the hard part which puts everyone off. But if you ignore them, and especially ignore any one who tells you he works for the DFA and you need to go to this special side office, no matter how genuine he looks (they never are, although they are often bribing the security guards to back them up - if they do, just tell them you know exactly what you need to do, show them you've got the docs and go on in), then once you're inside it's relatively straightforward (for the Philippines, anyway, meaning still completely backward compared to the modern world, but much better than the CFO).

Although now she's got the visa, don't bother changing her passport name - UK will stop her coming on that technicality.

[Admin]

You'll have to change teh passport name back here.

Phil Embassy charged Ping £40, and then the UK Immigration charged her £250 to restamp the Visa.....legal theft!! B)

[ginapeterb]

[B]Summary of the Whole Process[/B


Thank you guys for all the messages of support, I had already resisted the temptation to call at the DFA and change Gina's passport into our married name, as I didnt want any further hold ups, in truth, I am pretty exhausted and tired, from being in the Philippines, and if it was not for Gina wanting me to stay on until the agreed departure date, i would have left to come back to UK earlier.

I have had so many rows out here with Filipino's and vented my anger at them, that Gina is saying I am starting to mutter under my breath, things like..F...Wan###ers and the like.

The CFO is I agree with all of you, highly reprehensible, from what I can gather and of course non of us, have actually sat in on a couselling session, we can only take the advices of our spouses/fiancee's who have witnessed it, stories of bad press, beer swilling, wife beating, white slavery, etc etc, is really the subjective views of them as such.

What i would like, is the opportunity of seeing for myself first hand the counselling sessions carried out at the CFO..plus an opportunity of seeing the Videos that are shown about UK Life.

What I have heard lately, is only peices of a jigsaw, if I was able to see it for myself I could then make an objective assessment of how damaging to our culture and national pride these counselling sessions make.

With regard to the British Embassy, it is my intention once Gina has legally arrived in the UK to make representation to the British Ambassador, Peter Beckingham and copy the letter to the Foreign and Commonwealth office, at my concern regarding the visa interview process, in the following manner.

1. The Unprofessional Time Keeping situation in Manila at the Embassy.
2. My Concerns over the In Built prejudices that prevail among Entry Clearance Officers at the Embassy.
3. The Subjective overview of relationships between Filipino Citizens and British Citizens.
4. The Subjective approach to Gender male/female balance.
5. The Lack of facilities for visiting British Citizens.
6. The Absence of the Symbol of the Union (No Union Jack displayed)


Following this letter, I would also like to suggest that I write also to

Dr Alberto Romulo
Minister for Foreign Affairs at the DFA


I would also like to summarise my CFO Experience to the Minister directly, and suggest how the service might be improved for foreign spouses in the future, for example.

1. Lack of Information for Foreign Spouses
2. No Information leaflets given at the Foreign Embassy,s which would have been a major advantage.
3. Location of Seminar's i.e. Infrastructure location, difficulty travelling, traffic problems, treatment of Foreign Husbands.
4. Attitude of Staff, refusal to show a complaints procedure.
5. Offensive nature of counselling to foreign Husbands.
6. Subjective and stereo-typing Foreign spouses.
7. General dissatisfaction with need for Philippine Government to interfere in the trans-migration of its own citizens (i.e. Nanny State)


If anyone wants to support me in this, you never know, it may register that we are indeed fed up with their attitude, they might just look at it seriously, secondly, i am also intending to mention in my letter to Peter Beckingham, to ask him to raise concerns with the Minister regarding the negative approach to the UK taken by the Philippine Governments DFA.

I intend to write these letters later on when I return, but for now, will bite my tongue until Gina is safely in UK, I dont want a situation of her being held at the airport on suspicous grounds.

Its a thought anyway.

[ginapeterb]

This was fascinating. The transcript (which surely must have been a mistake of theirs in releasing it) makes blood-curdling reading.

Hello Peter, yes it does make disturbing reading indeed, what I didnt tell you all is that Gina was so angry with the interview, although I tried to calm her at the hotel, telling her the following obvious points.

1. You have the visa regardless.
2. They are just doing their job.
3. There was no reason to refuse you a visa.
4. They would have had to show compelling reasons why they could not issue a visa.
5. The ECO already told you, he would grant a visa regardless of how you felt about the interview.
6. Its over, dont worry, and you will never have to go in front of those wa....kers ever again.

The point that comes out of the Interview transcript, which I will display eventually as a scanned item on my website at www.british-filipino.com, (where I intend to write more pages regarding the interview and photos for future applicants). back to the main points.

The question "So really then you were just looking for a foreign husband, is that to give you a better life" or words to that effect, came up at least 3 times, rather like the ECO or ECHO as Gina calls them, this indicates they are trying to ensure that this isnt th case, to those who are in genuine love matches, this notion is highly offensive sadly as we all know, the bad filipina stories make it so much harder for the genuine situations.

Even if that were true and I would sympathise with that situation it would have been nice to have been given the benefit of the doubt.

instead of the ECO saying in his summary

"The applicant appears to be genuine, and their is a strong likelihood that she will live with the sponsor indefinately"

hmmmmm thanks mate !!!!


and "Sponsor has had a short phyiscal relationship" hmmmm how do you know pal ???


Peter as far as the ECO's name is concerned I dont have the transcript with me at the Internet cafe today, but hopefully I will be able to refer to his interview in my letter to Peter Beckingham who is the Current Ambassador.

What also makes me mad, and this will be pointed out to the Ambassador, is that in all likelihood my wife will work in the UK Economy immedeatly on arrival subject to a settling in period, she holds a current licence to practice as a Med Tech, and has a Batchelor of Science in Medical Technology, and a CV as long as your arm, so she will no doubt contribute to the economy by paying taxes, something of which escapes the ECO's summary.

And finally Peter in fact all of you.."What constitutes a better life "?

I would love to take issue with the Ambassador about that one ! and bring his nose a bit closer to the ground, better life..hmmm thats normally when I come to the Philippines isnt it ??

The Transcript makes a worrying read I agree, but I think we will be able to do little to change their in built prejudices, and I suppose PETER I am thankful just to get our visa and bring this road show to a close at least for us.

But I am looking forward to being available to help anyone else who has to go through this in the future along with everyone here at FilipinoUK.

[walesrob]

I think Pete raises valid points here, and its clear that there needs to be a change of attitude from Embassy staff.

Looking back now, I realised also that the Embassy is very user un-friendly, not only from the way Elsa was interviewed but the little things like not being allowed to talk to Embassy staff in person myself (instead of using a phone at the downstairs lobby - what a way to treat people in their own Embassy), even spelling my name and Elsas name wrong on the Legal Capacity to Marraige AND getting Elsas name wrong when they notified her that the visa was ready (they used the name Mr E Luff ). Clearly these Embassy staff are a law unto themselves, but we gotta lie down and say yes sir, no sir, how high sir...

For people like me and Pete and others who married in the Philippines and went through the nightmare of a process in getting the NSO secpa, NSO seminar, etc, and this to be questioned by the ECO at the interview to me is highly unfair.

[peterdavid]

Hi Pete,

I've had plenty of experiences at the Embassy over the years over blatant rudeness, and quite frankly, an utter disrespect for the people from the Embassy, both towards filipinas in general, but on occasion also to myself. Embassy officials tell all sorts of lies and make all sorts of mistakes, and, on one ocasion when my wife called them up on it, they tried to discredit her by saying, firstly, an ECO would never make a mistake(&#33 (yeah right, a civil servant, hmmm....), then when that didn't work they said that obviously my wife's (fluent) english isn't good enough and she either misheard or didn't understand English, as if she was some tribal native straight out of the jungle. This was all about the correct time to drop off some mostly irrelevant piece of information to the Embassy or some such, I can't remember the exact reason we were there now.

It was at that point that I stepped in to point out that I was also a party to the conversation my wife was referring to and the facts as she had relayed them were entirely accurate. The visa section manager (she no longer works there now as far as I know, but her name was Karen Finch) then told me "I find that very hard to believe"!!

I point blank refused to leave the Embassy until they had taken the document they had specifically asked us to bring in (they were saying we could only bring it in at a certain day/time and did not like it when we informed them that when we were asked to bring it in, no-one told us it had to be at this date or time. In the end, she conceded defeat, albeit most ungracefully, and, unbelievably, said that she'll take it, but she can't guarantee its safety on its journey from where she was standing talking to us now, to the point THREE FEET AWAY where she would need to place it in the intray or whatever. I was astounded at the rudeness and appalled at the indirect threat that she would deliberately 'lose' it because it wasn't handed in at the exact correct minute (which we were never informed about anyway). She clearly didn't like having to 'give in' and was no doubt annoyed that she found herself speaking to someone who knew what he was talking about.

We pay a fortune for this visa PROCESS (and it is the process we are paying for, not the outcome), and in return they should be providing a level of service commensurate with the significant size of the fee they force you to pay.

I had the same thoughts of letters of complaint (at the time Paul Dimmond was the ambassador, has he left now??), but then you have to get though UK immigration, then you have to do your 2 year renewal - there's always something that makes you think "hmm, maybe we'll leave it for a while".

But that is just one example of rudeness we have experienced (there are many others). It's disgusting. Makes you ashamed to be British when our representatives there, WHO WE PAY FOR, treat their host nation with such contempt and disrespect.

Like you, I also bristle at their assumption that the whole world is just clawing to get in to the UK. How arrogant, prejudiced, and WRONG.

Their style of questionning of Gina was appaling as well. I don't even know but it still makes me furious. I know they have to establish the facts, but a trained monkey with half a brain cell would have the intelligence to learn how to ask open ended questions, in a respectful way, which would allow the applicant to trip herself up (if she wasn't genuine), rather than badgering and pestering everyone, assuming they are all money grabbing bargirls waiting to get in and disappear, and trying to wear her down like that. Where do they think they are, Guantanamo?

As for writing to the CFO or DFA, I'd say save your pen ink. You've seen how poorly the Philippines treats 'foreigners' - their ridiculous, suicidal and misplaced 'national pride' is strangling their country into bankruptcy anyway. They'd probably take a measure of 'national pride' at the DFA to receive a letter from an irate foreigner who they've managed to inconvenience and annoy. Don't give them the satisfaction.

I spent most of my final year in the Philippines muttering quite loudly about corruption, backwards, stupid, etc (it really was time for me to leave, 3 years s more than enough, lol), when faced with the sort of nonsense the Philippines is full of. By that point, my wife was pretty much westernised, her eyes had been opened about how backward the country really is, and she would be the first one telling dumb, corrupt officials what her rights are and telling them what they can and can't do. It didn't half surprise them, one of their own with the independence and intelligence to call them to account for their incompetence and corruption, rather than just being a subservient little filipina who cowered in the face of officialdom.

Can fully understand the Embassy letter, but on the cautious side, be careful not to give them any ammunition to change their minds. As you've seen, a subjective whim and a deluded sense of power is all it takes with them.

[Admin]

It's strange that when I went with the wife to the Immigration centre in Liverpool, they ensured we understood everything, clearly stated where & when we should be, and went out of there way to be polite & helpful. You'd think it was a differnent country, when in fact the UK Embassy in the Philippines is still technically in the UK!!

I call the way they do RACISM, and I'll take this further. Time to find out if my new Tory MP can out do the good work the Labour MP done for me. I don't care what party they are, as long as they prove their worth.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by admin@Jun 10 2005, 11:25 AM
It's strange that when I went with the wife to the Immigration centre in Liverpool, they ensured we understood everything, clearly stated where & when we should be, and went out of there way to be polite & helpful. You'd think it was a differnent country, when in fact the UK Embassy in the Philippines is still technically in the UK!!

I call the way they do RACISM, and I'll take this further. Time to find out if my new Tory MP can out do the good work the Labour MP done for me. I don't care what party they are, as long as they prove their worth.

Quoted post

I agree Keith, I do consider the UK Embassy in Manila's approach and treatment of filipinos quite racist (although, to be fair, it's probably about the same as they way filipino officialdom treats foreigners). The difference is that the Embassy is a guest in the Philippine country. And, you would expect them to know better, especially when they spend all their time crowing on about how life in the UK is "so much better".

And I'm not surprised that HO officials in the UK display a quite different attitude. I think it's just very easy (although in no way excusable) that embassy staff sent to a remote outpost like Manila (which is considered one of the utterly un-glamorous postings to get which they all try and avoid) soon forget about 'political correctness' and start displaying the most contemptible behaviour which they would never be allowed to display in either the UK OR in an Embassy in a developed country. Compare the difference in attitude of Embassy staff in Manila with those in the UK Embassy in the US. You think they speak to an American the way they speak to a filipino? Do they .......s. Even the Singapore UK Embassy (being in a first world country) displays a better, professional attitude. It is very, disappointingly, a racist approach, not, I don't think, due to the inherent racism of the staff there, but more to do with a creeping resentment built uip over the years of simply living in the Philippines. But then these are supposedly professional people - they are paid to leave their bigoted prejudices behind when they enter the paid employ of the Embassy, regardless of where they got them from or how accurate they are, and follow the rules objectively, dispassionately and, above all, without prior prejudice, but based only on the facts in front of them.

Quote from an Embassy ECO to me several years ago: "The corruption in this country is so endemic, nothing surprises me here", referring to some of the things (he claimed) have been put in front of him to support visa applications. He therefore approaches every visa appliation with a large dose of heavy cynicism, mistrust and disbelief, and essentially waits for them to (a) prove they're not corrupt or fake BEFORE they (b ) prove they satisfy the visa criteria. In fact, an applicant SHOULD only need to do (b ).

But, stuck out there well away from the centre of things, they can and do get away with behaviour which, quite simply, would result in disciplinary action if they did it back here. There's no comeback, no need to fear a disciplinary response. If anyone complains, well, "they're only a filipino" and, as they reject 90% of all applications, they can hide behind the excuse of "they're just a filipino with an axe to grind because he didn't get a visa", neatly avoiding the fact that the visa process itself is thoroughly flawed and operated by people whose competence is well below par.

On the other hand, I suppose you could say that it is filipinos alone who reduced their country to the pitiful state it is today with rampant corruption which means most developed countries look on them with suspicion because the Philippines has managed to give itself the unenviable reputation of being one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and therefore they only have themselves to blame. Unfortunately, this means that the individual filipino is punished by the crimes of his collective countrymen. It's not right, it's not fair, and no doubt it encourages even the most upstanding of filipinos to consider a corrupt way forward when it is the ONLY way forward left to them. Vicious circle.

But still, you would have hoped that a supposedly modern, first world country, with the experience of an empire across the world and whose (retrospective) vision for it was to modernise the world, would try a little harder to push past their own bigoted prejudices and treat even the poorest and most imappropriate filipino applicant with at least a modicum of respect. Anything less simply degrades the Embassy, and us, who pay for it. If that's how they treat filipinos, who are they to sneer at them for their own mistreatment of each other and foreigners?

[ginapeterb]

Hello Guys,


Yes I have read all your comments this morning whilst killing time here down at the SM.

Whilst taking time to think carefully I agree it is better not to write any letters as yet, Peter quite rightly points out, Gina's visa is only a 2 year temporary residency, it could be revoked mysteriously.

Secondly, she is not in UK as yet, although I suspect whether I write to the Embassy or not, my letter will receive the polite brush off, the last time I e mailed the Embassy about another matter i.e. LCM I did not even get a reply.

Thirdly I dont want to create any problems for Gina leaving the Philippines, as she is booked next Friday to attend for her Pre-Arrival and cross cultural Counselling at the CFO in Cebu, its probably better if she does not attend the Good Shepherd Convent again, as I kind of muddied the waters for her there, with the following:

"You could dress a monkey up and put it in here, and you would get a better response out of it like .....ugrh ugrh grrrr grrrr oooh oooh oooh

" This place is not the third world...its f.....disney world"

It does not change the fact that its true to say that my wife now has her visa, I am thankful for that, I don't know why, but there was a sense of eletion and eurphoria, just knowing that we were approved ! you all know what I mean, although Gina's approval was dampened personally for her, by the interview style, she didnt come down the embassy steps bouncing with joy as I had suspected she would, in fact she looked rather subdued, almost indicating a refusal.

There are many things I do love about the Philippines, but as you all know, I detest its institutions of Government, the endless security checks for no apparent reason, the endless queueing for bits of paper, and rididiculous state interference in every aspect of life.

I spoke to a German guy this week, who was telling me, he has lived here for 3 years, cant get a bank account, cant get a telephone in his name, cant get this or that, he has had countless arguments with them, and is sick and tired to the back teeth of the way that foreign nationals are treated.

I told Gina that in truth, the way that the Philippines is viewed in the Western World is that its is a collection of insignificant islands known for crime, poverty and immense corruption, and this national filipino pride thing is rotten to the core, (go to the Philippine news section and read my latest letter from the Philippines by P Bennett) it makes good reading.

but thanks for all your support, tomorrow I am flying home to our country, you know guys sometimes we complain about UK, but I love our country, its not perfect, but its worlds apart to here, I miss it, and will be happy to be home, see you all on Monday the 13th, flying tomorrow 23.55 Emirates arriving UK 12.30pm Monday.

Best wishes

[andypaul]

I think you have made the right decision Pete.

To easy to act now and regret for ever more actions made to rashly.


Hope You have a safe Journey back to the UK.

[ginapeterb]

Originally posted by andypaul@Jun 11 2005, 07:26 PM
I think you have made the right decision Pete.

To easy to act now and regret for ever more actions made to rashly.
Hope You have a safe Journey back to the UK.

Quoted post

thank you for that, I am now safely back in UK, arrived this afternoon at around 3pm local, got my car from Q Park and arrived back home for about 5pm, to 3 ton of letters, tired out, so will ge going to bed soon to get some shut eye, however first let me give you all my trip back experience, it makes good reading.


Pete's Trip From the Provinces to London

I just had to relate this story, as it typifies the Philippines, after staying in the Business Inn for several days, I was rather getting tired of paying P20.00 to the Migos who constantly hang around, when I got to thinking, hey maybe its a conspiracy to get me to tip them, someone has fixed the door so we cant open it, but as soon as the Migos turn up, the door suddenly opens, everytime Gina and i go to the room door to our matrimonial suite, it will not open no matter how hard we try to open it.

Every time one of the cleaners (Amigos) turn up, I slip them P20.00 to do it, and suprise suprise the door opens, but its been days before I started to think just maybe we are being duped, after all Filipinos are ingenious when it comes to finding ways of extracting money.

Anyway thats a after thought, I showed up at 6pm at Bacolod City's "airport" hehe, if you could call it that, Philippine Airlines has the best "terminal" hmmm again if you could be forgiven for thinking it resembles something out of the Dogs of War movie starring Tom Berenger and Christopher Walken, you know the one, the Republic of Zangaro.

However, let us be fair about this, the flight was checked for 7pm that evening, after being officially delayed for 1 hour, was it on time, oh no it wasnt, oh yes it was they say, oh no it wasnt said the passengers, of yes it was said the staff of PAL.

We will have to beg to differ, the plane eventually left at 8pm, remembering of courrse I had to check in at Terminal 1 NAIA for 9pm, that clearly was not going to happen, as we did not arrive into terminal 2 until 9.20pm, however we were not able to leave the terminal as someone had taken the wrong bag, and the endless bods outside who represent Manila's hundreds of security firms, were in their element, everyone had to wait, until the guilty party had confessed to his or her sins and returned the wrong bag....someone also claimed that their box of pastries had gone missing, the country naturally comes to a stop when this happens.

Finally I went outside in the 35 degree heat looking for an airport taxi, first I had to go and receive a taxi coupon which is taken from the Taxi office half a mile away, then proceed to the unloading area, where I was directed to pay the driver, exepting the driver could not accept the payment as he said..he had to drive out of the terminal to the car park, in the next block, there the taxi office was, and I had to pay the P115.00 there, naturally the taxi driver expected his own personal tip, of some P80.00

After dropping me off at Terminal 1 I managed to join the queue to enter the aiport, after showing my passport, ID UK Driving licence photocard type, ticket, boarding cards, etc, and Mothers picture I was allowed to go in and deposit my bag on the outer conveyor.

This was scrutinized but they then held me up as they wanted to know what was in the 3 bottles I had with me, the 3 bottles contained different types of Steak Sauce, I was then asked to confirm what was in..so i said.

Bottle number 1 has A1 Rich and Hearty Steak Sauce
Bottle number 2 has Tang and sour Steak Sauce
Bottle number 3 has Smokey Barbecue Steak Sauce.

Then I was allowed to proceed through to the Emirates Check in desk, where I joined the most gigantic queue of Overseas Filipino workers you have ever seen, it took almost 1 hour to get checked in, then we were security checked again, this was check no 3...CONTD TOMORROW FOLKS, AFTER MY JET LAG IS OVER.

[ginapeterb]

Its now 7.14am and the jet lag is still working its tricks on my body clock, I have been up since 5.30am, washed showered, shampooed and not breakfasted as no milk, no anything actually...

Well on with my experience, after going through security check number 3, I finally was given my seat on Emirates, seat number 39D incidentally, I had to beg for an Aisle seat, dont know why, but I got it, going through to the terminal fee section was laughable, since the queue was about a hundred feet long as well, having got through this section eventually, and bypassing the streams and streams of OCW's I got to the food court section, and met up with another English Guy who shall be nameless.

I said to him "How its going mate" as you do...he looked at me and said !"Why ?"

I said well this conversation isnt going far...he then proferred this to me

"Just brought wife back, she dont like it in Retford, so she has come back, and will stay here now in the Phils"

"So I said, oh so whats happening with yourself"

"Oh I will go home, sup to her, if she dont like it..she can stay here"

That was the end of that conversation, fortunately I then met up with a guy from Newcastle on Tyne, denoted by his Toon Army Black and white striped shirt, a dead giveaway dont you think, and we chatted for almost an hour, finally it was time to go to the gate, and we then had to go through security check number 4, this involved putting everything you own into a box, I was then asked to remove my belt, at wich I complained, as in the last 3 security checks they had not asked for this, some Korean travellers going through to the Korean flight to Inchon, were also complaining about this, they looked at me and nodded in agreement, after going through the 3rd X Ray machine, we finally headed for the next section, a full body search, Security Check no 5.

Security Check No5 was a joke, of course having to stand on a wooden box and have your legs stroked by some pimple faced Filipino, grinning from ear to ear, looking like a jaffa eating a sweet potatoe...uttering the words "Policy Sir," "Policy Sir"

Oh the new one now is this "For your safety sir", have they been to Tesco Stores recently ??

Then its down the escalator to the gate, no another Security Check, this time Filipino private security firms, checking our boarding passes against our passports, Secufity Check no 6.

And then downwards even more finally to the departure gate, and its Security Check no 7,

A Full body searched yet again, just to check that Security Check no 5. hadnt made a mistake and you were carrying a bomb in your trouser pocket.

Well finally at 00.30 hours, we were allowed to board the aircraft, but it does teach you..if you fly to the Philippines, be prepared for endless security checks, checks on top of more checks, document checks, paper trails galore.

That completes that..but geeeeze I am glad to be back

[walesrob]

Welcome home Pete...hope you have got over the jetlag, it normally takes me a week to get back to reality. Sorry to hear about your experience at the airport - the sooner the new one opens the better (it should have opened 22nd June, BUT its the Philippines remember)

Not long till July 12th when Gina arrives ...then the fun begins