VERY BAD NEWS > Fiance Visa REFUSED...

[madmitch537]

lastly id like to ask how others overcome the visa barrier
i was not keen to apply the fiancee visa but to use the tourist option both being valid for 6months stay
obv proof of a return flight and sufficient easy to access funds from within the uk being essential to support such a visa
a letter of invitation and a place to stay is also usefull but i dont believe this alone supports that much on a tourist visa
it would give your lady a good insight about living in the uk
if all goes well id prefer to maybe return with your lady get married in the phils then apply the fiancee/spouse visa if she wanted to live with you in the uk
anyone tried it this way?
how did they get on ?
comments much appreciated as im sure the visa process whatever path you take is prob the biggest obsticle/barrier between a couple
regards mark

[joebloggs]

a return ticket might help, but its not enough to prove you'll return b4 your visa expires, it can be cancelled etc.

[Howerd]

hi
i was always led to believe that your wife or fiancee on a visa could not work in the uk the visa was valid for 6months only after a continuous marriage of three yrs then she could be able to be granted the next stage to remain in the uk and work etc

If your wife came to the UK she could work immediately.

If your fiancee came to the UK she could work as soon as she obtained FLR(M) after getting married.

[grahamw48]

Correct.

When couples fill out their applications it is well to bear in mind WHY the authorities are being 'obstructive'.

They are trying to filter out the 'arranged marriage' cases, the 'people trafficking' cases, the cheap labour cases and the perves hoping to bring young ladies over for 'tourist visits' and then send them packing. Some sort of sex lending library.

Unfortunately the scumbags of this world do make life difficult for the genuine applicants, but if you're sitting in your ECO's office, I suppose nit-picking and cynicism is bound to become a habit.

If and when I decide to go through this process again, I'm afraid the young lady will have to be flawless in her background, and in my case records and prevailing circumstances will need to present me as the perfect upright British citizen.

If only the same rules were applied to some of the irresponsible home-grown scrotes in 'relationships' and pro-creating in this country at taxpayers' expense.

[New Shoes]

OK. Here's a brief update....

The letter I wrote to the Entry Clearance Manager and the additional deocuments (wedding meal confirmation, flowers and cake quotes, YM chat logs showing us discussing marrige/baby etc) have been recieved by the ECM.

Due to the recent bank holidays (which the Brit emabassy in Manila observe), I'm still awaiting any news of the ECM's decision with regard to re-considering the visa refusal.

Also, an official appeal has been submitted to ensure we fell within the 28 days timescale to submit an official appeal.

I'm hoping that the ECM will look at my letter/ additional supporting papers along with the original application folder containing all the other documents and will see that we do indeed intend to get married and live together.


What gets me is that I was meticulous in preparing the application and nowhere does the visa checklist stipulate the requirement of proof of a marriage will take place. They ask for finances, accommodation, employment etc etc but no mention of marriage.

[Terpe]

.........I'm hoping that the ECM will look at my letter/ additional supporting papers along with the original application folder containing all the other documents and will see that we do indeed intend to get married and live together.


What gets me is that I was meticulous in preparing the application and nowhere does the visa checklist stipulate the requirement of proof of a marriage will take place. They ask for finances, accommodation, employment etc etc but no mention of marriage.

Thanks for the update New Shoes. I do hope you secure the best outcome.

Not only for you, but for others who may be reading this thread, there is no definitive requirement by UKBA to evidence proof that marriage will take place. That could not be done.

The ECO needs to feel or believe there is an intention.

From the settlement guide:-
What evidence is required of marriage arrangements?
The ECO needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place.

The law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place.

The ECO can reasonably expect the couple to have made some tentative plans for the wedding. Any evidence that may be available that wedding arrangements are in hand may help in this respect.

Also look here:-

Residence after arrival in the UK
The timing and nature of a decision regarding residence, who took the initiative and the way in which the decision was reached may be important factors in assessing whether or not the couple intend to live together permanently. The ECO should consider:

If the couple have not discussed and agreed where they will live, if only in the short term, why is this?
If the couple have discussed where they will live; when, how and by whom was the decision taken?
Is the marriage conditional upon the applicant securing admission to the UK?
If the marriage is conditional upon this, who made the condition and why?
If the application is unsuccessful would the sponsor live with the applicant in his/her present country of residence or elsewhere?

And here:-

What evidence is required of 'intention to live together'?
Intention to live permanently with the other means an intention to live together, evidenced by a clear commitment from both parties that they will live together permanently in the UK immediately following the outcome of the application in question or as soon as circumstances permit.

In assessing this part of the Rules it is useful, if possible, to have the views of both parties tested by the ECO. Where both partners are clearly committed to stay together irrespective of whether they live in the UK or not, the intention to live together will be shown. However, if it is clear that the sponsor will not leave the UK to live with the applicant elsewhere should the application for entry clearance be refused, the ECO will need to examine the reasons for this and how this bears on the relationship between the parties.

Also here:-

Tribunal decisions on the intention to live together
In a case considered in the High Court in November 1996 Keen J held that:

"The concept of intention is no doubt a complex one, but it appears to me that one can indeed have a genuine intention, notwithstanding that the carrying out of that intention is dependent on, or could be frustrated by, some extraneous event."

He went on to conclude that the requirement of the Rules relating to the intention of the parties to the marriage could be met where the British citizen (or legally resident foreign national) spouse insisted on remaining in the United Kingdom. In other words, a conditional intention to live together could be sufficient to meet the 'intention to live together permanently' requirement.

Sorry, it's a lot to read but maybe it can help you still.
If not it can surely be useful information to others.

It can be very difficult to convince anyone of 'plans' or 'intentions' but providing evidence of discussions between the parties on such topics is key.

[grahamw48]

Interesting that.

So maybe the fact that I'd already been living with the ex (but girlfriend then) for 9 months in the Phils demonstrated that we just wanted to be together....wherever.

I'll bear that in mind for my next application.

[New Shoes]

Another update.........

Well, I got email notification from the British Embassy on the 19th April stating that they had received my letter and additional documents (on the 18th) and these had been passed to the ECM for consideration.

Giving that the embassy is closed for Filipino and British public/bank holidays, I calculate that it's now been 19 business/working days since the ECM received my correspondance.

I'm starting to feel rather frustrated that my gf and i have not heard anything since then. I feel that 19 working days is surely adequate time to reconsider the our application.

In the mean time, we have submitted an official appeal (had to be done within 28 days of original visa decision).

Regarding that, I recieved an email stating that the embassy had received the appeal papers and the ECM would look at the appeal papers, including the enclosed additional documents and woulde re-consider our case and the original decision may be reversed without going through the full appeal process.

Again we have heard nothing at all..............

I'm surprised it's taking so long to get a response as I'd read on this site that in similar situations, people had had replies back in about 9 days or so.

We are both feeling totally powerless and in limbo at the moment!!!

[Nick30]

I heard that appeals can take a bit of time. Good luck to you both though. It should be good news as most decisions are overturned on appeal.

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the reply, but it's not actually the appeal I'm talking about. I'm aware that appeals take about 6 months to get to the hearing.

Thanks for your support though, cheers!

[Arthur Little]

Giving that the embassy is closed for Filipino and British public/bank holidays, I calculate that it's now been 19 business/working days since the ECM received my correspondance.

I'm surprised it's taking so long to get a response as I'd read on this site that in similar situations, people had had replies back in about 9 days or so.

We are both feeling totally powerless and in limbo at the moment!!!

Apparently a programme of staff training had been underway at the Embassy between May 2nd and 20th ... which probably accounts for the delay.

[Nick30]

Yes that's maybe what the delay is. Is it a reconsideration New Shoes?

[New Shoes]

Hi Arthur,

So do you think that most of the embassy business has been delayed due to staff training?

My goodness! I think my gf and I are not having much luck with the whole visa process!!!!!

Hopefully now that the staff training is completed we will get a reply soon, and of course that it's good news!

I'll keep you informed of any developments....

[New Shoes]

Yes that's maybe what the delay is. Is it a reconsideration New Shoes?

Yes it is, Nick.
We've been anxiously awaiting a reply.
I'm hoping my letter and some additional documents will do the trick!

Thanks again

[Nick30]

You're welcome mate Anytime.

You must be both excited and anxious at the same time.
I'm excited for my girlfriend visiting me soon. Once she lodges the visa application I will be excited and positive that she could be coming. You shouldn't be nevous, you should be positive.

[Arthur Little]

Hi Arthur,

So do you think that most of the embassy business has been delayed due to staff training?

It seems pretty likely, Dave ... based on reports coming in from other folk who've been waiting longer than what we've [almost] come to expect in recent times.

[New Shoes]

OK, here's another update........

GOOD NEWS!!!!

The British Embassy sent my gf and I the following email. I received it at 5.00am UK time:-

Dear Ms. xxxx

Manila Ref: xxxxx

Please be informed that the decision to refuse your entry clearance has now been overturned by the Entry Clearance Manager. Kindly forward your passport so that we can issue the appropriate visa.

Your must send your passport via courier, to the Embassy within 2 weeks from the date of this email at the following address:

ST xxxxx
Visa Services
British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

The wait to hear the response from the ECm to my letter seemed to take forever. It was 28 days working/busines days since I got confirmation my letter had been passed to the ECM.

So............ after an anxious wait we now have the green light to get things moving again.

I'd like to thank everyone who has offered help and support over the last few weeks. Your support has been very much appreciated! Thanks again.

So, it looks like once my gf has her passport/visa returned it's a case of CFO seminar/sticker > flight booked > arrival in UK..........

[Terpe]

Good job New Shoes, well done and sincere congratulations.

All good from now on

[grahamw48]

Congratulations.

Happy days are here again.

[Arthur Little]

Congratulations to you both, Dave ... onwards and upwards from now on!

[joebloggs]

well done getting it overturned
no need for time wasting appeal

[stevie c]

Absolutley fantastic news congratulations to the both of you

[steve monty]

Congratulations New Shoes!! You must be the happiest man alive, now you can get on with your life together!!

[alanmf1]

Fantastic news New Shoes

[alanp]

great news New shoes congratulations

[Nick30]

Many congratulations mate

I'm so happy for you.

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the best wishes everyone.
I've been on cloud 9 all day!!!!!

I've got to admit, there were times when I thought it was not going to be.

Thanks again guys!

Dave

[tone]

Very good news mate.
Thank YOU for sharing the experience too its made me look at wedding plans and ensure a number of quotations and wedding details have gone into our submission too.
Tone

[Lancashirelad]

OK, here's another update........

GOOD NEWS!!!!

The British Embassy sent my gf and I the following email. I received it at 5.00am UK time:-

Dear Ms. xxxx

Manila Ref: xxxxx

Please be informed that the decision to refuse your entry clearance has now been overturned by the Entry Clearance Manager. Kindly forward your passport so that we can issue the appropriate visa.

Your must send your passport via courier, to the Embassy within 2 weeks from the date of this email at the following address:

ST xxxxx
Visa Services
British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

The wait to hear the response from the ECm to my letter seemed to take forever. It was 28 days working/busines days since I got confirmation my letter had been passed to the ECM.

So............ after an anxious wait we now have the green light to get things moving again.

I'd like to thank everyone who has offered help and support over the last few weeks. Your support has been very much appreciated! Thanks again.

So, it looks like once my gf has her passport/visa returned it's a case of CFO seminar/sticker > flight booked > arrival in UK..........

Congrats really pleased for you! Know how it feels the anxious wait

A reminder for your fiancee's CFO that she will need a couple of photos of you both together, that she knows your mothers maiden name,your place of work address and that she has a scanned copy of your birth certificate and passport!

[New Shoes]

LancashireLad, Thanks for the reminder for those documents and info! I'll make sure she has all that needs!!

Tone, you're welcome mate! .............or, I guess as they say in the Phils .... walang anuman pare !!