VERY BAD NEWS > Fiance Visa REFUSED...

[New Shoes]

I recieved the news today that my gf's Fiance Visa application has been refused.
We are both very very disappointed as you can imagine.

I had thought I had been meticulus is the preparation of the documents required. But it looks like I screwed up on the wedding plans.

Here is the decision as given by the ECO.
Please read it and I would be very very grateful for any advice and assistance....

"You propose to travel to the UK to marry your partner. You have not seen your partner for more than a year. I am aware that the law relating to marriage in England and Wales does not allow for any arrangements to be made with a Registrar until the foreign national has arrived in the UK. Even at that, of itself, a booking at a Register Office or church is not proof that a marriage will take place. You have shown no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK. You claim to be in a relationship for nearly two years now. It would be reasonable for me to expect to see some evidence needs to be satisfied that it is intended that a marriage in the UK will take place."

So the provisional booking at my local Register Office is not enough of a planned wedding.

The plan originally was a registrar wedding with a simple meal in a local pub or restaurant afterwards

So.....
I need to organise and forward reception bookings / invitations etc.

This seems to be the main reason for the visa refusal. I cannot change the fact that it's been over a year since we physically met.

If I get these invites / bookings done do I send these to my gf or can these go to the ECO directly?

Can someone explain the appeals process. She has emailed copies of the appeal forms and they seem to indicate that any appeal has to be posted / faxced to the First-tier Tribunal (immigration and Asylum Chamber) in Loughborough.

I understand the decision, so I'm not technically disagreeing with the decision, I just need to include more documents (the wedding reception invites etc).

What should I do?.........

Sorry for the ramble, I'm in a bit of state as I type this....

Many thanks for any assistance.......

Dave

[grahamw48]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.

Why don't you get married in the Phils ?

It cost me probably less than a tenner, and the Mrs. was on the plane to England with me within a couple of weeks. Job done.

[joebloggs]

Intervening Devotion If the applicant and sponsor have been separated for a lengthy period of time before the application is submitted (for example, longer than 3 or 4 months), then evidence of intervening devotion should be included. This would normally take the form of telephone records or other forms of electronic communication. If the couple have lived separately for a longer period, travel receipts can be used to show that contact has been continual and proportionate.

If a prolonged separation is the result of mobility issues (which would include military duties or other foreign assignments), this would take the form of assignment letters or similar documentation.

When submitting email or instant messenger logs, it is important to bear in mind that intervening devotion means evidence of contact and not an exhaustive transcript of each on-line session.

are there any other reasons why you were refused ?

if youcan get any evidence of your planned wedding, send it or scan it and email it to your g/f and write a letter to the ECO manager asking for reconsideration, and hopefully it will be overturned..

if not then appeal in the phils, i think it would be quicker..


bit of a catch 22, you cant get good evidence that the wedding will take place, and if you do, they might not accept it anyway , qoute/bill for a cake, wedding dress, invites, from the pub etc..
sorry have to get back to work now

[bornatbirth]

hi new shoes, im sorry to hear that the visa was refused.

im thinking the last time you both saw each other is a issue too and the contact you have had dosent seem enough

getting bills etc to show that some plans for the wedding exist may help but can i ask what contact you both have had in the 2 years you have been together?.

anyway i know its bad news but im sure it will work out

[stevie c]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.

Why don't you get married in the Phils ?

It cost me probably less than a tenner, and the Mrs. was on the plane to England with me within a couple of weeks. Job done.

I agree with graham why don't you get married in the phils i got married on the 27Th September 2010 & my wife florsel arrived in the uk with a spouse visa on the 9Th November 2010 no hassle quick & straight forward

[KeithD]

You should be able to have this overturned just by supplying the additional information for proof of a relationship and plans to marry.

You can get a letter from the registry office (sometimes a 'donation' can help ), a quote from the restaurant with the planned date on it. Copies of conversations with the other half about wedding plans. Chat logs and phone bills, etc.

[imagine]

sorry to hear your visa refused new shoes, good luck with your apeal,wether you apply here on in the phills, im sure you can turn it around, if it was me i would go to phill and marry there , 2 birds with one stone, you visit your lady plus you marry her, then how can they refuse,

[New Shoes]

Hi guys, thanks for the support. Much appreciated!!

A bit more info .........

We first met each other March 2009 spent 5 days together, next occasion was Feb 2010 spent 4 weeks together. Since March 2009 we have been in contact weekly via YM video chats and email (all logs and emails have been submitted) as were photos, phone bills etc.

Having re-read the refusal letter, it seems that the ECO feels that we have not met the requirements of paragraph 290 (iii) which is "each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse......"

I've already submitted the provisional booking date/time letter for the wedding from the local Register Office.

I think the ECO needs to see wedding arrangements such as invites, reception bookings, cake quotes etc.

As it's going to be a small, simple affair, I don't have these, but I'll have to get them.

[KeithD]

I think the ECO needs to see wedding arrangements such as invites, reception bookings, cake quotes etc.

You shouldn't need them. Did you supply enough information on recent communications?

[New Shoes]

Win2Win,

Yes, we submitted almost weekly YM chat logs and emails since March 2009 until application was submitted 4 weeks ago.

In the refusal letter, the ECO acknowledges that a wedding booking at a Registry Office is no proof that the wedding will actually take place. We submitted the provisional wedding booking form as sent by my local Register Office.

The ECO goes on to state "You have shown no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK"

So this makes me think that apart from the provisional booking form given by the local Registry Office which I've already submitted, we need to submit wedding reception booking, wedding invitation, cake quote etc.

What do you think?

Everything else appears to be in order as the ECO states "no tentative plans or bookings to marry in the UK"

[keithAngel]

My gut feeling says on the face of what you wrote I would be complaining technicaly however you may not have included enough info as to the small scale easy to arrange wedding in the UK no mention is made of lack of contact info and you sort of suggest once a week.

You visited twice total 4 weeks and 5 days in two years perhaps thats an unspoken thought dressed as something else by the eco get on it and demonstrate your serious and deserve the visa your fiance might explain its the guy that does the wedding planning ,in the UK as she is in Fils

[New Shoes]

I think it's definitely the lack of supporting evidence of the intended small-scale wedding.

As I've mentioned previously, we have submitted the letter from the local Register Office, confirming a provisional wedding booking showing the date and time.

It seems that the ECO feels that we have not met the requirements of UK Immigration Rules, paragraph 290 (iii) which is "each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse......"

Other than sending additional proof comprising of reception booking, cake quote, invites done what else can I do?

[aposhark]

I echo what the others have said regarding going over to the Phils to get married.

Lots more fun and she will be with her family, much cheaper too

Lots of lechon baboy and all sorts of other goodies.

If not, submit what you think is required to overturn the decision.

Best of luck.

[RuBiX]

Hello there!! I'm sorry about the refusal of your fiancee.
As far as I can remember, my husband just send me a provisional booking from the registry office and there were no
wedding reception booking, wedding invitation, cake quote etc. and they granted me the fiancee visa way back 2009. I think it all depends to the case worker /ECO who handled the application.

Did your fiancee took the English test already?
Mind you my husband visited me three times in Philippines
and took a lot of photos for the application..I also printed the chat logs and skype photos.

I really don't know why they refused your application as to you've been meticulous in preparing for the documents.
How about just phone them and ask where did you go wrong and what else is to be proven that you're both genuine..

Anyhow, good luck for the appeal or better yet just get married in Philippines in that your soon to be wife can work directly that if she wants to.

Good luck and I hope everything will be alright in your application soon

[RuBiX]

I echo what the others have said regarding going over to the Phils to get married.

Lots more fun and she will be with her family, much cheaper too

Lots of lechon baboy and all sorts of other goodies.

If not, submit what you think is required to overturn the decision.

Best of luck.

Yes I bet it's fun. I also hope to have a 2nd wedding in Philippines. I miss lechon baboy and of course my family and friends.I hope to have a beach wedding
We'll see, maybe after so many years and that will be the renewal of vows

[alanp]

Hi Dave
I am sorry to hear that the visa has been refused. I really hope you can get it overturned
it has put me and my fiancee in a panic as we have just filled our fiancee visa and like you i have been unable to visit her for over a year and when i tried to get a provisonal booking at a Register office I was told that they would not do that.
good luck to you and your fiancee
Alan

[New Shoes]

Thanks again for the replies, all very much appreciated.

Looking at paragragh 290 of the UK Immigration Law which is what we've been scored against..... it's made up of 7 parts, we got 6 out of the seven.

1) Applicant is seeking to enter UK to marry a person settled in the UK........ PASSED

2) Both parties have met ....... PASSED

3) Each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his / her spouse........FAILED

4) Adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse on public funds until date of marriage......... PASSED

5) Adequate accommodation without recourse on public funds after the marriage ...........PASSED

6) The parties after the marriage will be able to maintain themselves adequately without public funds..........PASSED

7) Applicant has passed the English Language Test at to at least A1 level..............PASSED

[New Shoes]

It's been suggested by a couple of posters above, that prior to making a formal appeal, I write a letter to the ECO Manager at the British Embassy asking if he will reconsider the decision and enclose additional documents regarding wedding plans. The manager may reverse the decision.

So......... within the next few days I'm going to get provisional/confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a bar/restaurant, flowers, cake and invitations.

BIG favour to ask now........ Is there anyone who is good at wording a suitable letter to the ECO Manager and would be willing to help me draft an appropriate letter?

If so, could you PM your email address and I'll contact you....... many many thanks.

(BTW it's been 12 hours since I got the bad news and I'm still feeling shocked, disbelief, numb, sick in my stomach) Not a good day.

[steve monty]

hi there New shoes,

I'm sorry to hear your bad news, I hope you can get it rectified in your appeal. I hope you don't mind me asking, but why you not intend to live permanently with each other? Is your future wife going back to the Philippines after the wedding? Are you going to live in separate houses in the UK? Why do you feel you can not meet this requirement? Sorry to ask this, Just trying to get a greater understanding.

[axis22]

Hi New Shoes,

Sorry to hear about your refusal.

Im thinking that it has to be harder to get a fiance visa than a spouse visa as you are not already married so your application has to be even more convincing.

I think the fact that you havent met for over a year is important as are the reasons why this is.You dont say in your posts but the officer may be thinking that if its for financial reasons than how will you support your future wife?

Also evidence of contact "nearly every week" I don't think is enough. This part of the evidence of relationship would have to be pretty strong to overcome other percieved weaknesses in your application,i think you will have to do more for example 2-3 times a week minimum.Just my opinion.

I think a lot depends on the reasons for your not seeing each other for more than a year and the explanation of this that you gave in your application.

But dont be discouraged im sure you will get your visa as we did and many others on the board.

Good luck

david and rose

[New Shoes]

Steve .. We do want to live permanently together, it's the ECO who feels we have failed on this requirement

Axis22 .. Maybe the fact we last met just over a year ago has something to do with the decision, I don't know.
I have printed out all of our weekly emails and web chats, I didn't submit everyone, but almost. You could see a regular pattern of contact.

[joebloggs]

dave it would probably be best if you got a letter professionally written,

scouser khan should do a good job, he knows his , thou not sure what he would charge, but it could save you money,time and heartache , but give him a call and see what he says

http://www.davieskhan.co.uk/page/home/lang/english/

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the link joebloggs.
I'll contact him today

Again, many thanks for the help.....

[New Shoes]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

[keithAngel]

Whats the reason for "weekly chat logs" why that frequency?

[Arthur Little]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

... that being the case, Dave ... why bother with an intermediary? Time being of the essence in trying to get the ECO's decision overturned by his/her boss, I've sent you a Private Message with a [suggested] draft letter for consideration. You've nothing to lose - and, hopefully, plenty to gain - so let's go for it!

[joebloggs]

Bugger! Davies & Khan office is closed for annual holidays until 19th April...........

... that being the case, Dave ... why bother with an intermediary? Time being of the essence in trying to get the ECO's decision overturned by his/her boss, I've sent you a Private Message with a [suggested] draft letter for consideration. You've nothing to lose - and, hopefully, plenty to gain - so let's go for it!

[New Shoes]

KeithAngel >>The weekly chat logs were the YM web cam chat log archives. We always chat each Saturday and Sunday for a couple of hours. I didn't submit every week's chat, but a vast majority. I also only included the first page showing date and time, this was to show the frequency of our contact.

Arthur >> I've replied to you PM, many thanks for your help

Jorbloggs >> This afternoon I've been writing a draft letter. I'm going to add a few more things and then post it here for you guys to take a look and comment on......

Thanks again everyone!
Dave

[keithAngel]

I just wondered if the eco saw a minimum pattern and jumped to 2+2 = 6 my chatscand text are much more random and frequent

[New Shoes]

The weekly frequency (ie Saturdays and Sundays) had also to do with the time difference and me working the standard 9 to 5.

This wasn't mentions in the reason for refusal, but who knows?????